Re: The DEPM discussion

2003-03-14 Thread Helge Hafting
John Levon wrote: Personally I believe the UI benefit in the paragraph not going away when you're about to type into vs. the cost of allowing the user to leave an empty paragraph or two around is worth it. I guess you disagree. I see the point of an empty paragraph that stays when I mark

Re: The DEPM discussion

2003-03-14 Thread John Levon
On Fri, Mar 14, 2003 at 01:15:39PM +0100, Helge Hafting wrote: It might not matter much if the horizontal cursor approach is used, but empty paragraphs producing lots of extra vertical space is not what I mean, therefore I don't want them. Then you don't create them... john

Re: The DEPM discussion

2003-03-14 Thread Lars Gullik Bjønnes
John Levon [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: | On Fri, Mar 14, 2003 at 01:15:39PM +0100, Helge Hafting wrote: | | It might not matter much if the horizontal cursor approach is used, but | empty paragraphs producing lots of extra vertical space is not what I | mean, therefore I don't want them. | |

Re: The DEPM discussion

2003-03-14 Thread John Levon
On Fri, Mar 14, 2003 at 01:53:34PM +0100, Lars Gullik Bj?nnes wrote: I think that Helge has a point. We should not allow them to be created. (so we have to remove the old ones.) OK, then the code stays as it is. john

Re: The DEPM discussion

2003-03-14 Thread Lars Gullik Bjønnes
John Levon [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: | On Fri, Mar 14, 2003 at 01:53:34PM +0100, Lars Gullik Bj?nnes wrote: | | I think that Helge has a point. We should not allow them to be | created. (so we have to remove the old ones.) | | OK, then the code stays as it is. No, not necessarily. I think

Re: The DEPM discussion

2003-03-14 Thread John Levon
On Fri, Mar 14, 2003 at 02:17:28PM +0100, Lars Gullik Bj?nnes wrote: No, not necessarily. I think the clean up so far has been good, especially to split the DEPM. Can you explain which variant you want then (because it isn't mine) ? thanks john

Re: The DEPM discussion

2003-03-14 Thread Helge Hafting
John Levon wrote: Personally I believe the UI benefit in the paragraph not going away when you're about to type into vs. the cost of allowing the user to leave an empty paragraph or two around is worth it. I guess you disagree. I see the point of an empty paragraph that stays when I mark

Re: The DEPM discussion

2003-03-14 Thread John Levon
On Fri, Mar 14, 2003 at 01:15:39PM +0100, Helge Hafting wrote: > It might not matter much if the horizontal cursor approach is used, but > empty paragraphs producing lots of extra vertical space is not what I > mean, therefore I don't want them. Then you don't create them... john

Re: The DEPM discussion

2003-03-14 Thread Lars Gullik Bjønnes
John Levon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: | On Fri, Mar 14, 2003 at 01:15:39PM +0100, Helge Hafting wrote: | | > It might not matter much if the horizontal cursor approach is used, but | > empty paragraphs producing lots of extra vertical space is not what I | > mean, therefore I don't want them.

Re: The DEPM discussion

2003-03-14 Thread John Levon
On Fri, Mar 14, 2003 at 01:53:34PM +0100, Lars Gullik Bj?nnes wrote: > I think that Helge has a point. We should not allow them to be > created. (so we have to remove the old ones.) OK, then the code stays as it is. john

Re: The DEPM discussion

2003-03-14 Thread Lars Gullik Bjønnes
John Levon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: | On Fri, Mar 14, 2003 at 01:53:34PM +0100, Lars Gullik Bj?nnes wrote: | | > I think that Helge has a point. We should not allow them to be | > created. (so we have to remove the old ones.) | | OK, then the code stays as it is. No, not necessarily. I

Re: The DEPM discussion

2003-03-14 Thread John Levon
On Fri, Mar 14, 2003 at 02:17:28PM +0100, Lars Gullik Bj?nnes wrote: > No, not necessarily. > > I think the clean up so far has been good, especially to split the > DEPM. Can you explain which variant you want then (because it isn't mine) ? thanks john

Re: The DEPM discussion

2003-03-13 Thread Alfredo Braunstein
Christian Ridderström wrote: Alfredo how difficult would it be to backport the cursor patch for 1.3.1cvs? (I'm not talking about introducing it into 1.3.1cvs... just about making a special version that I can test) I don't think it would be difficult. Unfortunately, I don't have a 1.3.x

Re: The DEPM discussion

2003-03-13 Thread Alfredo Braunstein
Christian Ridderström wrote: £$%£! Interesting language, I've never seen that ... smiley?... before. I had some problem with the... ehm... font charset ;) Regard, Alfredo

Re: The DEPM discussion

2003-03-13 Thread Jean-Marc Lasgouttes
John == John Levon [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: John On Wed, Mar 12, 2003 at 06:26:11PM +0100, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes John wrote: But having the possibility of leaving blank paragraphs here and there without knowing whether they will still be there after saving is not nice either. Do _you_ know

Re: The DEPM discussion

2003-03-13 Thread Helge Hafting
Christian Ridderström wrote: On Wed, 12 Mar 2003, Alfredo Braunstein wrote: The patch was good only to show what it feels like anyway. I don't know how hard would it be to solve all little (?) arising problems. John's patch seems to be in a quasi-working state. Here's a new idea (dare I say

Re: The DEPM discussion

2003-03-13 Thread Helge Hafting
John Levon wrote: On Wed, Mar 12, 2003 at 11:51:34PM +0200, Martin Vermeer wrote: Would it be possible to have the collapsing of empty paragraphs take place when the user presses a newline anywhere else in the document? This way the document jumps about oddly. Look at the complaints we had

Re: The DEPM discussion

2003-03-13 Thread Alfredo Braunstein
Writers should not have to remove unuseable empty paragraphs themselves, when the computer is perfectly capable of doing it for them. Cleaning up code is usually good, except when making the code smaller and simpler by removing good features. It's at least arguable that DEPM is a good

Re: The DEPM discussion

2003-03-13 Thread Helge Hafting
John Levon wrote: I am *not* worried about users having a blank paragraph or two because they created a par and then deleted it. Likelihood is the user will 'enjoy' cleaning up the empty paragraph anyway so things look a bit neater (And of course they are removed on save). I know I won't enjoy

Re: The DEPM discussion

2003-03-13 Thread Alfredo Braunstein
Helge Hafting wrote: (About the graphichs jump - isn't that solvable by getting the size of the image at load time? At least for the great majority of formats that allows quick extraction of the size?) Not all. Latex previews for instance (which were the main problem). Alfredo

Re: The DEPM discussion

2003-03-13 Thread John Levon
On Thu, Mar 13, 2003 at 11:05:08AM +0100, Helge Hafting wrote: The effect will be that the one and only empty paragraph moves to a new location. If it were below before - no effect. If it were above, the creation of a new empty paragraph will be that the top half of the screen moves and

Re: The DEPM discussion

2003-03-13 Thread John Levon
On Thu, Mar 13, 2003 at 11:08:08AM +0100, Helge Hafting wrote: I know I won't enjoy this extra cleanup, or having to save just to make it look right. look right ? If you're still trying to get the on-screen representation to look right, then I suppose we have failed. And of course having to

Re: The DEPM discussion

2003-03-13 Thread Alfredo Braunstein
John Levon wrote: Remember that they can only create at most *one* empty par (assuming I add the remaining cases). Hmmm. Isn't it not two or more _consecutive_ empty pars with your patch? Or else I've misunderstood something. Alfredo

Re: The DEPM discussion

2003-03-13 Thread John Levon
On Thu, Mar 13, 2003 at 11:42:34AM +0100, Alfredo Braunstein wrote: Hmmm. Isn't it not two or more _consecutive_ empty pars with your patch? Or else I've misunderstood something. Yes, sorry ... it's still morning ... john

Re: The DEPM discussion

2003-03-13 Thread Jean-Marc Lasgouttes
John == John Levon [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: John On Thu, Mar 13, 2003 at 11:08:08AM +0100, Helge Hafting wrote: I know I won't enjoy this extra cleanup, or having to save just to make it look right. John look right ? If you're still trying to get the on-screen John representation to look

Re: The DEPM discussion

2003-03-13 Thread John Levon
On Thu, Mar 13, 2003 at 11:56:09AM +0100, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: John look right ? If you're still trying to get the on-screen John representation to look right, then I suppose we have failed. No, but this is what people will be trying to do, if they discover that they can do it. I

Re: The DEPM discussion

2003-03-13 Thread Christian Ridderström
On Thu, 13 Mar 2003, Helge Hafting wrote: Writers should not have to remove unuseable empty paragraphs themselves, when the computer is perfectly capable of doing it for them. Cleaning True I can see the point of having a temporary empty paragraph for pasting something though. I was

Re: The DEPM discussion

2003-03-13 Thread Helge Hafting
John Levon wrote: On Thu, Mar 13, 2003 at 11:08:08AM +0100, Helge Hafting wrote: I know I won't enjoy this extra cleanup, or having to save just to make it look right. look right ? If you're still trying to get the on-screen representation to look right, then I suppose we have failed. What I

Re: The DEPM discussion

2003-03-13 Thread John Levon
On Thu, Mar 13, 2003 at 03:13:15PM +0100, Helge Hafting wrote: Remember that they can only create at most *one* empty par (assuming I add the remaining cases). Ok, that is much better. I really worried about users creating false formatting with lots of empty paragraphs just to watch it

Re: The DEPM discussion

2003-03-13 Thread Darren Freeman
On Fri, 2003-03-14 at 00:54, John Levon wrote: Personally I believe the UI benefit in the paragraph not going away when you're about to type into vs. the cost of allowing the user to leave an empty paragraph or two around is worth it. I guess you disagree. I want the paragraph to stay around

Re: The DEPM discussion

2003-03-13 Thread Darren Freeman
Jumping in on the thread, haven't been reading it before: On Thu, 2003-03-13 at 20:21, Helge Hafting wrote: Argh. Please _no_ purging shortcut or anything like that, because it _should not be necessary!_ There's enough cleaning up to do already, polishing sentences, adjusting figures,

Re: The DEPM discussion

2003-03-13 Thread John Levon
On Fri, Mar 14, 2003 at 03:27:44AM +1030, Darren Freeman wrote: looks nice even though it changes nothing but looks better. Plus there's the possibility of giving a LyX document to somebody else, in which case the blank paragraphs *do* have an effect, they look bad. In which case they'll

Re: The DEPM discussion

2003-03-13 Thread John Levon
On Fri, Mar 14, 2003 at 03:28:18AM +1030, Darren Freeman wrote: well it does that now as soon as you leave the empty paragraph, but I agree that I should be able to move away and do a copy before pasting into the blank paragraph.. I agree with that behaviour in principle, but I still like

Re: The DEPM discussion

2003-03-13 Thread Darren Freeman
On Fri, 2003-03-14 at 03:37, John Levon wrote: On Fri, Mar 14, 2003 at 03:28:18AM +1030, Darren Freeman wrote: well it does that now as soon as you leave the empty paragraph, but I agree that I should be able to move away and do a copy before pasting into the blank paragraph.. I

Re: The DEPM discussion

2003-03-13 Thread John Levon
On Fri, Mar 14, 2003 at 03:54:15AM +1030, Darren Freeman wrote: It will take some clever new idea to solve the problem, but it isn't impossible. Just some way of letting LyX and the user agree about which paragraphs are temporary and should be left alone, and which ones are done and should be

Re: The DEPM discussion: John chews out Darren

2003-03-13 Thread Darren Freeman
On Fri, 2003-03-14 at 04:00, John Levon wrote: On Fri, Mar 14, 2003 at 03:54:15AM +1030, Darren Freeman wrote: It will take some clever new idea to solve the problem, but it isn't impossible. Just some way of letting LyX and the user agree about which paragraphs are temporary and should

Re: The DEPM discussion: John chews out Darren

2003-03-13 Thread John Levon
On Fri, Mar 14, 2003 at 04:14:21AM +1030, Darren Freeman wrote: I'm afraid it's a symptom of having an enormous thread and nobody bothering to update the subject line to make it half relevant to the post.. people don't want to read the archives coz there's too many messages to sift through.

Re: The DEPM discussion: Darren reacts to light prodding ;)

2003-03-13 Thread Darren Freeman
On Fri, 2003-03-14 at 04:18, John Levon wrote: On Fri, Mar 14, 2003 at 04:14:21AM +1030, Darren Freeman wrote: I'm afraid it's a symptom of having an enormous thread and nobody bothering to update the subject line to make it half relevant to the post.. people don't want to read the

Re: The DEPM discussion: Darren reacts to light prodding ;)

2003-03-13 Thread John Levon
On Fri, Mar 14, 2003 at 04:30:47AM +1030, Darren Freeman wrote: Then perhaps you shouldn't be contributing :) I could be missing the point of the smiley of course, but I certainly don't feel too encouraged by that remark, and there might be someone else reading it who decides to hold off

Re: The DEPM discussion

2003-03-13 Thread Christian Ridderström
On 14 Mar 2003, Darren Freeman wrote: well it does that now as soon as you leave the empty paragraph, but I agree that I should be able to move away and do a copy before pasting into the blank paragraph.. for example, with two Standard environments and a lyx-code in-between, I want to

Re: The DEPM discussion: Darren reacts to light prodding ;)

2003-03-13 Thread Andre Poenitz
On Fri, Mar 14, 2003 at 04:30:47AM +1030, Darren Freeman wrote: I could be missing the point of the smiley of course, I think you are. but I certainly don't feel too encouraged by that remark, and there might be someone else reading it who decides to hold off on a bug report in case it's

Re: The DEPM discussion: Darren reacts to light prodding ;)

2003-03-13 Thread John Levon
On Thu, Mar 13, 2003 at 07:22:41PM +0100, Andre Poenitz wrote: Nobody takes John seriously on ordinary days, let alone on Fridays (Beijing time...) Hey ! This isn't cabaret ! john

Re: The DEPM discussion: Darren reacts to light prodding ;)

2003-03-13 Thread Andre Poenitz
On Thu, Mar 13, 2003 at 06:37:06PM +, John Levon wrote: This isn't cabaret ! Since we are at it: Currently LyX crahes when asked to create a new doc. Andre' -- Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one. (T. Jefferson)

Re: The DEPM discussion: Darren reacts to light prodding ;)

2003-03-13 Thread John Levon
On Thu, Mar 13, 2003 at 07:33:01PM +0100, Andre Poenitz wrote: Since we are at it: Currently LyX crahes when asked to create a new doc. I don't see it. john

Re: The DEPM discussion: Darren reacts to light prodding ;)

2003-03-13 Thread Andre Poenitz
On Thu, Mar 13, 2003 at 06:42:49PM +, John Levon wrote: Since we are at it: Currently LyX crahes when asked to create a new doc. I don't see it. Ah, ok, this was a version with the stronger assert(). Sorry for the confusion. Andre' -- Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to

Re: The DEPM discussion: Darren reacts to light prodding ;)

2003-03-13 Thread John Levon
On Thu, Mar 13, 2003 at 07:42:30PM +0100, Andre Poenitz wrote: Ah, ok, this was a version with the stronger assert(). And I assume without Lars' fixes. I don't get the bitsillies with a current CVS john

Re: The DEPM discussion

2003-03-13 Thread Alfredo Braunstein
Christian Ridderström wrote: > Alfredo how difficult would it be to backport the cursor patch for > 1.3.1cvs? (I'm not talking about introducing it into 1.3.1cvs... just > about making a special version that I can test) I don't think it would be difficult. Unfortunately, I don't have a 1.3.x

Re: The DEPM discussion

2003-03-13 Thread Alfredo Braunstein
Christian Ridderström wrote: >> £$%£&! > > Interesting language, I've never seen that ... smiley?... before. I had some problem with the... ehm... font charset ;) Regard, Alfredo

Re: The DEPM discussion

2003-03-13 Thread Jean-Marc Lasgouttes
> "John" == John Levon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: John> On Wed, Mar 12, 2003 at 06:26:11PM +0100, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes John> wrote: >> But having the possibility of leaving blank paragraphs here and >> there without knowing whether they will still be there after saving >> is not nice either.

Re: The DEPM discussion

2003-03-13 Thread Helge Hafting
Christian Ridderström wrote: On Wed, 12 Mar 2003, Alfredo Braunstein wrote: The patch was good only to show what it feels like anyway. I don't know how hard would it be to solve all little (?) arising problems. John's patch seems to be in a quasi-working state. Here's a new idea (dare I say

Re: The DEPM discussion

2003-03-13 Thread Helge Hafting
John Levon wrote: On Wed, Mar 12, 2003 at 11:51:34PM +0200, Martin Vermeer wrote: Would it be possible to have the collapsing of empty paragraphs take place when the user presses a newline anywhere else in the document? This way the document jumps about oddly. Look at the complaints we had

Re: The DEPM discussion

2003-03-13 Thread Alfredo Braunstein
> Writers should not have to remove unuseable empty paragraphs themselves, > when the computer is perfectly capable of doing it for them. Cleaning > up code is usually good, except when making the code smaller and simpler > by removing good features. It's at least arguable that DEPM is a good

Re: The DEPM discussion

2003-03-13 Thread Helge Hafting
John Levon wrote: I am *not* worried about users having a blank paragraph or two because they created a par and then deleted it. Likelihood is the user will 'enjoy' cleaning up the empty paragraph anyway so things look a bit neater (And of course they are removed on save). I know I won't enjoy

Re: The DEPM discussion

2003-03-13 Thread Alfredo Braunstein
Helge Hafting wrote: > (About the graphichs jump - isn't that solvable by getting the > size of the image at load time? At least for the great majority of > formats that allows quick extraction of the size?) Not all. Latex previews for instance (which were the main problem). Alfredo

Re: The DEPM discussion

2003-03-13 Thread John Levon
On Thu, Mar 13, 2003 at 11:05:08AM +0100, Helge Hafting wrote: > The effect will be that the one and only empty paragraph "moves" > to a new location. If it were below before - no effect. If it were > above, the creation of a new empty paragraph will be that the > top half of the screen moves

Re: The DEPM discussion

2003-03-13 Thread John Levon
On Thu, Mar 13, 2003 at 11:08:08AM +0100, Helge Hafting wrote: > I know I won't enjoy this extra cleanup, or having to save just > to make it look right. "look right" ? If you're still trying to get the on-screen representation to "look right", then I suppose we have "failed". > And of course

Re: The DEPM discussion

2003-03-13 Thread Alfredo Braunstein
John Levon wrote: > Remember that they can only create at most *one* empty par (assuming I > add the remaining cases). Hmmm. Isn't it "not two or more _consecutive_ empty pars" with your patch? Or else I've misunderstood something. Alfredo

Re: The DEPM discussion

2003-03-13 Thread John Levon
On Thu, Mar 13, 2003 at 11:42:34AM +0100, Alfredo Braunstein wrote: > Hmmm. Isn't it "not two or more _consecutive_ empty pars" with your patch? > Or else I've misunderstood something. Yes, sorry ... it's still morning ... john

Re: The DEPM discussion

2003-03-13 Thread Jean-Marc Lasgouttes
> "John" == John Levon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: John> On Thu, Mar 13, 2003 at 11:08:08AM +0100, Helge Hafting wrote: >> I know I won't enjoy this extra cleanup, or having to save just to >> make it look right. John> "look right" ? If you're still trying to get the on-screen John>

Re: The DEPM discussion

2003-03-13 Thread John Levon
On Thu, Mar 13, 2003 at 11:56:09AM +0100, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: > John> "look right" ? If you're still trying to get the on-screen > John> representation to "look right", then I suppose we have "failed". > > No, but this is what people will be trying to do, if they discover > that they can

Re: The DEPM discussion

2003-03-13 Thread Christian Ridderström
On Thu, 13 Mar 2003, Helge Hafting wrote: > Writers should not have to remove unuseable empty paragraphs themselves, > when the computer is perfectly capable of doing it for them. Cleaning True > I can see the point of having a temporary empty paragraph for pasting > something though. I was

Re: The DEPM discussion

2003-03-13 Thread Helge Hafting
John Levon wrote: On Thu, Mar 13, 2003 at 11:08:08AM +0100, Helge Hafting wrote: I know I won't enjoy this extra cleanup, or having to save just to make it look right. "look right" ? If you're still trying to get the on-screen representation to "look right", then I suppose we have "failed".

Re: The DEPM discussion

2003-03-13 Thread John Levon
On Thu, Mar 13, 2003 at 03:13:15PM +0100, Helge Hafting wrote: > >Remember that they can only create at most *one* empty par (assuming I > >add the remaining cases). > > Ok, that is much better. I really worried about users creating > false formatting with lots of empty paragraphs just to watch

Re: The DEPM discussion

2003-03-13 Thread Darren Freeman
On Fri, 2003-03-14 at 00:54, John Levon wrote: > Personally I believe the UI benefit in the paragraph not going away when > you're about to type into vs. the cost of allowing the user to leave an > empty paragraph or two around is worth it. I guess you disagree. I want the paragraph to stay

Re: The DEPM discussion

2003-03-13 Thread Darren Freeman
Jumping in on the thread, haven't been reading it before: On Thu, 2003-03-13 at 20:21, Helge Hafting wrote: > Argh. > Please _no_ purging shortcut or anything like that, because it > _should not be necessary!_ There's enough "cleaning up" to do already, > polishing sentences, adjusting figures,

Re: The DEPM discussion

2003-03-13 Thread John Levon
On Fri, Mar 14, 2003 at 03:27:44AM +1030, Darren Freeman wrote: > looks nice even though it changes nothing but looks better. Plus there's > the possibility of giving a LyX document to somebody else, in which case > the blank paragraphs *do* have an effect, they look bad. In which case they'll

Re: The DEPM discussion

2003-03-13 Thread John Levon
On Fri, Mar 14, 2003 at 03:28:18AM +1030, Darren Freeman wrote: > well it does that now as soon as you leave the empty paragraph, but I > agree that I should be able to move away and do a copy before pasting > into the blank paragraph.. > I agree with that behaviour in principle, but I still

Re: The DEPM discussion

2003-03-13 Thread Darren Freeman
On Fri, 2003-03-14 at 03:37, John Levon wrote: > On Fri, Mar 14, 2003 at 03:28:18AM +1030, Darren Freeman wrote: > > > well it does that now as soon as you leave the empty paragraph, but I > > agree that I should be able to move away and do a copy before pasting > > into the blank paragraph.. >

Re: The DEPM discussion

2003-03-13 Thread John Levon
On Fri, Mar 14, 2003 at 03:54:15AM +1030, Darren Freeman wrote: > It will take some clever new idea to solve the problem, but it isn't > impossible. Just some way of letting LyX and the user agree about which > paragraphs are temporary and should be left alone, and which ones are > done and

Re: The DEPM discussion: John chews out Darren

2003-03-13 Thread Darren Freeman
On Fri, 2003-03-14 at 04:00, John Levon wrote: > On Fri, Mar 14, 2003 at 03:54:15AM +1030, Darren Freeman wrote: > > > It will take some clever new idea to solve the problem, but it isn't > > impossible. Just some way of letting LyX and the user agree about which > > paragraphs are temporary and

Re: The DEPM discussion: John chews out Darren

2003-03-13 Thread John Levon
On Fri, Mar 14, 2003 at 04:14:21AM +1030, Darren Freeman wrote: > I'm afraid it's a symptom of having an enormous thread and nobody > bothering to update the subject line to make it half relevant to the > post.. people don't want to read the archives coz there's too many > messages to sift

Re: The DEPM discussion: Darren reacts to light prodding ;)

2003-03-13 Thread Darren Freeman
On Fri, 2003-03-14 at 04:18, John Levon wrote: > On Fri, Mar 14, 2003 at 04:14:21AM +1030, Darren Freeman wrote: > > > I'm afraid it's a symptom of having an enormous thread and nobody > > bothering to update the subject line to make it half relevant to the > > post.. people don't want to read

Re: The DEPM discussion: Darren reacts to light prodding ;)

2003-03-13 Thread John Levon
On Fri, Mar 14, 2003 at 04:30:47AM +1030, Darren Freeman wrote: > > Then perhaps you shouldn't be contributing :) > > I could be missing the point of the smiley of course, but I certainly > don't feel too encouraged by that remark, and there might be someone > else reading it who decides to hold

Re: The DEPM discussion

2003-03-13 Thread Christian Ridderström
On 14 Mar 2003, Darren Freeman wrote: > > well it does that now as soon as you leave the empty paragraph, but I > agree that I should be able to move away and do a copy before pasting > into the blank paragraph.. > > for example, with two Standard environments and a lyx-code in-between, I > want

Re: The DEPM discussion: Darren reacts to light prodding ;)

2003-03-13 Thread Andre Poenitz
On Fri, Mar 14, 2003 at 04:30:47AM +1030, Darren Freeman wrote: > I could be missing the point of the smiley of course, I think you are. > but I certainly don't feel too encouraged by that remark, and there > might be someone else reading it who decides to hold off on a bug report > in case it's

Re: The DEPM discussion: Darren reacts to light prodding ;)

2003-03-13 Thread John Levon
On Thu, Mar 13, 2003 at 07:22:41PM +0100, Andre Poenitz wrote: > Nobody takes John seriously on ordinary days, let alone on Fridays > (Beijing time...) Hey ! This isn't cabaret ! john

Re: The DEPM discussion: Darren reacts to light prodding ;)

2003-03-13 Thread Andre Poenitz
On Thu, Mar 13, 2003 at 06:37:06PM +, John Levon wrote: > This isn't cabaret ! Since we are at it: Currently LyX crahes when asked to create a new doc. Andre' -- Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one. (T. Jefferson)

Re: The DEPM discussion: Darren reacts to light prodding ;)

2003-03-13 Thread John Levon
On Thu, Mar 13, 2003 at 07:33:01PM +0100, Andre Poenitz wrote: > Since we are at it: Currently LyX crahes when asked to create a new doc. I don't see it. john

Re: The DEPM discussion: Darren reacts to light prodding ;)

2003-03-13 Thread Andre Poenitz
On Thu, Mar 13, 2003 at 06:42:49PM +, John Levon wrote: > > Since we are at it: Currently LyX crahes when asked to create a new doc. > > I don't see it. Ah, ok, this was a version with the stronger assert(). Sorry for the confusion. Andre' -- Those who desire to give up Freedom in order

Re: The DEPM discussion: Darren reacts to light prodding ;)

2003-03-13 Thread John Levon
On Thu, Mar 13, 2003 at 07:42:30PM +0100, Andre Poenitz wrote: > Ah, ok, this was a version with the stronger assert(). And I assume without Lars' fixes. I don't get the bitsillies with a current CVS john

Re: The DEPM discussion

2003-03-12 Thread Alfredo Braunstein
John Levon wrote: Actually I think for doube spaces we shuold actively collapse them on an edit operation (backspace etc.) You mean to collapse the space far away from where the edit operation occurs? Or to allow the creation of double spaces eventually? Could you elaborate? But let's deal

Re: The DEPM discussion

2003-03-12 Thread John Levon
On Wed, Mar 12, 2003 at 09:41:19AM +0100, Alfredo Braunstein wrote: Actually I think for doube spaces we shuold actively collapse them on an edit operation (backspace etc.) You mean to collapse the space far away from where the edit operation occurs? Or to allow the creation of double

Re: The DEPM discussion

2003-03-12 Thread Alfredo Braunstein
John Levon wrote: Like this : blah |a blah after a delete key : blah |blah This sounds sensible, but it's not the real problem. So we maintain the invariant of no two spaces existing like that. As I mentioned there's one special case I'm aware of and that's replace a selected word

Re: The DEPM discussion

2003-03-12 Thread Lars Gullik Bjønnes
John Levon [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: | On Wed, Mar 12, 2003 at 09:41:19AM +0100, Alfredo Braunstein wrote: | | Actually I think for doube spaces we shuold actively collapse them on | an edit operation (backspace etc.) | | You mean to collapse the space far away from where the edit

Re: The DEPM discussion

2003-03-12 Thread Lars Gullik Bjønnes
Alfredo Braunstein [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: | John Levon wrote: | | Like this : | | blah |a blah | | after a delete key : | | blah |blah | | This sounds sensible, but it's not the real problem. 2000-01-13 Lars Gullik Bjønnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] * src/text2.C (CutSelection):

Re: The DEPM discussion

2003-03-12 Thread John Levon
On Wed, Mar 12, 2003 at 10:01:19AM +0100, Lars Gullik Bj?nnes wrote: | Like this : | | blah |a blah | | after a delete key : | | blah |blah So we are then back to the situation we had several years ago and that nobody liked. (not allowing the cursor to be placed between to

Re: The DEPM discussion

2003-03-12 Thread Lars Gullik Bjønnes
John Levon [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: | Hmm. Yes I can see that being annoying. Bleh, I'm not sure what to do | about this space thing at all now. Perhaps: limit to two spaces maximum, | and strip the extra one on output ? Or introduce a DESM, and ditch the DEPM. | I am not so sure that I

Re: The DEPM discussion

2003-03-12 Thread John Levon
On Wed, Mar 12, 2003 at 10:31:29AM +0100, Lars Gullik Bj?nnes wrote: | Hmm. Yes I can see that being annoying. Bleh, I'm not sure what to do | about this space thing at all now. Perhaps: limit to two spaces maximum, | and strip the extra one on output ? Or introduce a DESM, and ditch the

Re: The DEPM discussion

2003-03-12 Thread Alfredo Braunstein
Lars Gullik Bjønnes wrote: All this not beeing able to have two spaces in a row was deemed a problem with how the DEPM worked earlier. That got fixed, not it seems that you want to introduce the problem again to get rid of DEPM. Only one of my proposals arguably suffered this. Have you read

Re: The DEPM discussion

2003-03-12 Thread Lars Gullik Bjønnes
John Levon [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: | On Wed, Mar 12, 2003 at 10:31:29AM +0100, Lars Gullik Bj?nnes wrote: | | | Hmm. Yes I can see that being annoying. Bleh, I'm not sure what to do | | about this space thing at all now. Perhaps: limit to two spaces maximum, | | and strip the extra one on

Re: The DEPM discussion

2003-03-12 Thread Lars Gullik Bjønnes
Alfredo Braunstein [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: | Only one of my proposals arguably suffered this. Have you read them? Yes, but perhaps not closely enough. [...] | If you consider it's a waste of time or that it's plain stupid and you wont | accept changes to that code just say so, with

Re: The DEPM discussion

2003-03-12 Thread Alfredo Braunstein
Lars Gullik Bjønnes wrote: John Levon [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: | Only a DESM is certainly a step forward but doesn't solve Alfredo's | original complaint: non-const cursor movement. [...] I have already said that the const patch should go in. I think that you didn't up to now. I will

Re: The DEPM discussion

2003-03-12 Thread Alfredo Braunstein
Alfredo Braunstein wrote: I think that you didn't up to now. I will rediff the patch. Actually, is there someone else working in lyxtext.h text{,2,3}.C? I can wait until things gets stabilized in order to not break others patches. Alfredo

Re: The DEPM discussion

2003-03-12 Thread John Levon
On Wed, Mar 12, 2003 at 11:27:59AM +0100, Alfredo Braunstein wrote: Actually, is there someone else working in lyxtext.h text{,2,3}.C? I can wait until things gets stabilized in order to not break others patches. I'm making a minimal kill-depm right now. regards john

Re: The DEPM discussion

2003-03-12 Thread Alfredo Braunstein
John Levon wrote: I'm making a minimal kill-depm right now. I'll wait then. Alfredo

Re: The DEPM discussion

2003-03-12 Thread Christian Ridderström
On Wed, 12 Mar 2003, Alfredo Braunstein wrote: Christian Ridderström wrote: I fiddled a bit with 'qscreen.C', but for some reason I wasn't able to get it thicker (I'm guessing that 'cursor_h_' should control it's height?). Partially. The cursor right now is a line with 1 pixel

Re: The DEPM discussion

2003-03-12 Thread John Levon
On Wed, Mar 12, 2003 at 11:35:16AM +0100, Alfredo Braunstein wrote: I'm making a minimal kill-depm right now. Here it is (I'm still building it, but more testers would be great !) john Index: BufferView.C === RCS file:

Re: The DEPM discussion

2003-03-12 Thread Alfredo Braunstein
John Levon wrote: On Wed, Mar 12, 2003 at 11:35:16AM +0100, Alfredo Braunstein wrote: I'm making a minimal kill-depm right now. Here it is (I'm still building it, but more testers would be great !) It would be also good if people tested this to acknowledge the change on behaviour. I

Re: The DEPM discussion

2003-03-12 Thread John Levon
On Wed, Mar 12, 2003 at 12:11:57PM +0100, Alfredo Braunstein wrote: It would be also good if people tested this to acknowledge the change on behaviour. I don't think that we have reached consensus here... I also don't think we've had anybody really arguing against the disablement of DEPM

Re: The DEPM discussion

2003-03-12 Thread Lars Gullik Bjønnes
John Levon [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: | On Wed, Mar 12, 2003 at 11:35:16AM +0100, Alfredo Braunstein wrote: | | I'm making a minimal kill-depm right now. | | Here it is (I'm still building it, but more testers would be great | !) If this works as expected: Great! -- Lgb

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