Re: Unix vs Windows security (was Re: Nokia device usage)

2009-03-13 Thread Henrik Madsen
ThinLinc from www.cendio.com is a perfect alternative to Citrix which also works perfectly on *nix software. It is built on open source product and offers a very cheap and more reliable solution compared to Citrix. BR Henrik On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 07:22:26AM -0400, James Knott wrote: George

Re: Unix vs Windows security (was Re: Nokia device usage)

2009-03-13 Thread kenneth marken
James Knott wrote: George Farris wrote: On Thu, 2009-03-12 at 22:15 -0600, Mark Haury wrote: James Knott wrote: Windows doesn't need (never has, and never will) to have the capability for simultaneous users. What would be the point? As PCs continue to shrink in size as they increase

Re: Unix vs Windows security (was Re: Nokia device usage)

2009-03-13 Thread James Knott
kenneth marken wrote: hell, the story goes that microsoft killed of smart displays as it would be a cheap way to do multi-user on xp home. something that would undermine their more expensive multi-user licenses on win2k3 (where, iirc, you pay ones for the os, and ones for the number of users

Re: Unix vs Windows security (was Re: Nokia device usage)

2009-03-13 Thread James Knott
George Farris wrote: On Thu, 2009-03-12 at 22:15 -0600, Mark Haury wrote: James Knott wrote: Windows doesn't need (never has, and never will) to have the capability for simultaneous users. What would be the point? As PCs continue to shrink in size as they increase in power, it makes a

Re: Unix vs Windows security (was Re: Nokia device usage)

2009-03-13 Thread James Knott
Henrik Madsen wrote: ThinLinc from www.cendio.com is a perfect alternative to Citrix which also works perfectly on *nix software. It is built on open source product and offers a very cheap and more reliable solution compared to Citrix. I'm not familiar with that, but it's still an add

Re: Unix vs Windows security (was Re: Nokia device usage)

2009-03-13 Thread Mark
On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 11:16 PM, George Farris farr...@shaw.ca wrote: On Thu, 2009-03-12 at 22:15 -0600, Mark Haury wrote: James Knott wrote: Windows doesn't need (never has, and never will) to have the capability for simultaneous users. What would be the point? As PCs continue to shrink in

Re: Unix vs Windows security (was Re: Nokia device usage)

2009-03-13 Thread James Knott
Mark wrote: From: http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2009/03/french-police-saves-millions-of-euros-by-adopting-ubuntu.ars Games are not our priority I guess they're not into Cops and Robbers. ;-) -- Use OpenOffice.org http://www.openoffice.org

Re: Nokia device usage

2009-03-13 Thread Jean-Christian de Rivaz
John Holmblad a écrit : Jean-Christian, interesting. And from the diagram I see your point. Of course the N95 is a full function mobile phone and based on that N95 diagram I would expect that the heavy lifting of the 3G voice and HSPA protocols for voice and non-voice (packet) data

Re: Unix vs Windows security (was Re: Nokia device usage)

2009-03-12 Thread Samer Azmy
That is completely correct, there are major difference between *nix operating system and Windows. not even on the technical leve but on the quality of deisgn and approach Regards Samer Azmy On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 7:24 AM, Farrell J. McGovern farrell.mcgov...@gmail.com wrote: ScottW wrote:

Re: Unix vs Windows security (was Re: Nokia device usage)

2009-03-12 Thread Scott
On Mar 12, 2009, at 12:24 AM, Farrell J. McGovern wrote: ScottW wrote: The Mac and *nix world needs to stop gloating about their clean record so far and keep an eye out for what is to come. Dues to the learning curve of the OS, the users were more enlightened than the common computer

Re: Unix vs Windows security (was Re: Nokia device usage)

2009-03-12 Thread Mike Lococo
Greetings All, Please take this thread to a more appropriate list, it has very little to do with tablet usage at this point. It might be better suited to the SecurityFocus Security Basics list, for example. Subscription info below: http://www.securityfocus.com/archive/105/description#0.3.1

Re: Unix vs Windows security (was Re: Nokia device usage)

2009-03-12 Thread Denis Dimick
While I hate OS wars; it's like taking to your cat. This was a well thought out response and worth reading. Thanks, Denis -- sik vis paw kem, para bellum -- oderint dum metuant -- Our

Re: Unix vs Windows security (was Re: Nokia device usage)

2009-03-12 Thread Samer Azmy
Hello root user is not the absolute power any more, please dont forget SELINUX and the MLS Multi Level Seurity you can read more on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selinux On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 6:15 PM, Mark wolfm...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 11:24 PM, Farrell J. McGovern

Re: Unix vs Windows security (was Re: Nokia device usage)

2009-03-12 Thread James Knott
Scott wrote: On Mar 12, 2009, at 12:24 AM, Farrell J. McGovern wrote: ScottW wrote: The Mac and *nix world needs to stop gloating about their clean record so far and keep an eye out for what is to come. Dues to the learning curve of the OS, the users were more enlightened than

Re: Unix vs Windows security (was Re: Nokia device usage)

2009-03-12 Thread James Knott
Mark wrote: On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 11:24 PM, Farrell J. McGovern farrell.mcgov...@gmail.com wrote: ScottW wrote: The Mac and *nix world needs to stop gloating about their clean record so far and keep an eye out for what is to come. Dues to the learning curve of the OS, the

Re: Nokia device usage

2009-03-12 Thread John Holmblad
Jean-Christian, interesting. And from the diagram I see your point. Of course the N95 is a full function mobile phone and based on that N95 diagram I would expect that the heavy lifting of the 3G voice and HSPA protocols for voice and non-voice (packet) data above the physical layer would be

Re: Unix vs Windows security (was Re: Nokia device usage)

2009-03-12 Thread Mark Haury
James Knott wrote: Ummm... Given that DOS didn't appear until 1981, there's no way Windows could have been around 30+ years ago. That would have been the days of CP/M and Apple II. Sorry, that should have been 20+... 24 to be more precise. Momentary lapse in brain function. Back in the

Re: Unix vs Windows security (was Re: Nokia device usage)

2009-03-12 Thread George Farris
On Thu, 2009-03-12 at 22:15 -0600, Mark Haury wrote: James Knott wrote: Windows doesn't need (never has, and never will) to have the capability for simultaneous users. What would be the point? As PCs continue to shrink in size as they increase in power, it makes a lot more sense for

Re: Nokia device usage

2009-03-11 Thread Matt Emson
Mark wrote: You're putting words in my mouth. I never said that. I said that they were either Linux or Mac fanboys OR were simply targeting the most common OS. I don't personally disagree with Mark's statement, except for the wording. I would have put it as: But NOT impossible, and the

Re: Nokia device usage

2009-03-11 Thread James Knott
Mark wrote: On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 7:02 PM, James Knott james.kn...@rogers.com wrote: Mark wrote: On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 7:14 PM, James Knott james.kn...@rogers.com wrote: Bottom line, there are a lot of technical and usage reasons that make it much harder for malware to

Re: Nokia device usage

2009-03-11 Thread James Knott
John Holmblad wrote: James, as you are well aware, a user of a Microsoft Desktop or Server OS is not required to use Outlook for email. Mozilla Thunderbird works quite well on Microsoft OS's and of course there is Evolution. I am well aware that you can use other mail applications.

Re: Nokia device usage

2009-03-11 Thread Jean-Christian de Rivaz
John Holmblad a écrit : http://www.smta.org/files/CTEA_High_Density_Pkg_Trends-Carey-Portelligent.pdf You can see, from viewing the iphone PCB discussed on pp 13-17 of that presentation. that, in addition to having separate power amps for each of 3 frequency band groupings (it is a quad

Re: Nokia device usage

2009-03-11 Thread Jean-Christian de Rivaz
Jean-Christian de Rivaz a écrit : Nokia will more likely use this kind of integration: http://www.phonewreck.com/wiki/index.php?title=Nokia_N95#Block_Diagram The Quad-band GSM/GPRS/EDGE + Dual-band UMTS/HSPDA chain use 1 chip for the baseband, 1 chip for the transceiver and 1 chip for the

Re[2]: Nokia device usage

2009-03-11 Thread ScottW
The biggest fault in any computer to make a virus successful is the part between the keyboard and chair. I am quite sure that no one reading this email falls for that pop up window from Anti-Virus2009 that says your computer is infected and click here to run a virus scanner (but you probably

Unix vs Windows security (was Re: Nokia device usage)

2009-03-11 Thread Farrell J. McGovern
ScottW wrote: The Mac and *nix world needs to stop gloating about their clean record so far and keep an eye out for what is to come. Dues to the learning curve of the OS, the users were more enlightened than the common computer user, but now these are more wide spread and the common user

Re: Nokia device usage

2009-03-10 Thread Jean-Christian de Rivaz
John Holmblad a écrit : Jean-Christian, the term 3g radio is a fairly broad term. The key is what software is going to be in the new G4 IT above the radio/physical layer. It would make sense, especially if Nokia decides that the G4 IT is going to go after the market served by the

Re: Nokia device usage

2009-03-10 Thread Alberto Garcia
On Mon, Mar 09, 2009 at 03:56:48PM -0600, Mark wrote: And the only reason that Linux and Macs are so relatively safe from viruses and worms is because they aren't targeted, not because they are fundamentally more secure. This would make sense if creating a virus required a significant

Re: Nokia device usage

2009-03-10 Thread Mark
On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 7:14 PM, James Knott james.kn...@rogers.com wrote: Bottom line, there are a lot of technical and usage reasons that make it much harder for malware to attack Linux/Unix. But NOT impossible, and the fact remains that the overwhelming majority of malware writers are either

Re: Nokia device usage

2009-03-10 Thread Mark
On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 9:21 AM, kenneth marken kemar...@broadpark.no wrote: basically, the only really safe option is to yank that plug, and use only home-coded apps... Provided you *never* make any mistakes or overlook any bugs... ;-) Mark ___

Re: Nokia device usage

2009-03-10 Thread James Knott
kenneth marken wrote: Bottom line, there are a lot of technical and usage reasons that make it much harder for malware to attack Linux/Unix. the big problem here is that the target for said malware have changed... its no longer about bringing down whole systems. these days its the users

Re: Nokia device usage

2009-03-10 Thread James Knott
Mark wrote: On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 7:14 PM, James Knott james.kn...@rogers.com wrote: Bottom line, there are a lot of technical and usage reasons that make it much harder for malware to attack Linux/Unix. But NOT impossible, and the fact remains that the overwhelming majority of

Re: Nokia device usage

2009-03-10 Thread John Holmblad
James, as you are well aware, a user of a Microsoft Desktop or Server OS is not required to use Outlook for email. Mozilla Thunderbird works quite well on Microsoft OS's and of course there is Evolution. I should add that, just as Microsoft has mitigated/eliminated well known vulnerabilities

Re: Nokia device usage

2009-03-09 Thread Jean-Christian de Rivaz
John Holmblad a écrit : [...] On the other hand mobile service providers who are evolving from GSM to 3G/UMTS can, if they so choose, start to move their voice traffic over to their UMTS infrastructure (equipment and RF) and do so gradually by providing their customers with dual mode 2g/3g

Re: Nokia device usage

2009-03-09 Thread Eero Tamminen
, but nowadays we enable it only sometimes when discussing with our young nieces, for 99%[1] of the calls voice is enough. As this thread is Nokia device usage, what you would use the Skype video for? :-) - Eero [1] of the _time_ used for all the calls video part might be more, the calls

Re: Nokia device usage

2009-03-09 Thread Alejandro López
Eero Tamminen wrote: As this thread is Nokia device usage, what you would use the Skype video for? :-) Mainly to communicate with my family when on business travel, but also to put in touch my kids (2 and 4 year old) and their grand mother (11000 km away) without requiring them to stay

Re: Nokia device usage

2009-03-09 Thread kenneth marken
Alejandro López wrote: Eero Tamminen wrote: As this thread is Nokia device usage, what you would use the Skype video for? :-) Mainly to communicate with my family when on business travel, but also to put in touch my kids (2 and 4 year old) and their grand mother (11000 km away) without

Re: Nokia device usage

2009-03-09 Thread Alejandro López
kenneth marken wrote: Alejandro López wrote: Eero Tamminen wrote: As this thread is Nokia device usage, what you would use the Skype video for? :-) Mainly to communicate with my family when on business travel, but also to put in touch my kids (2 and 4 year old) and their grand mother

Re: Nokia device usage

2009-03-09 Thread lakestevensdental
Fernando Cassia wrote: A couple points: 1. Apple makes proprietary, closed solutions. Try to reverse engineer Apple´s firmware for compatibility reasons and you´ll see Apple lawyers coming to get you. They've found there's a broad end-user market for stuff that meets a certain ease of

Re: Nokia device usage

2009-03-09 Thread kenneth marken
lakestevensdental wrote: Fernando Cassia wrote: A couple points: 1. Apple makes proprietary, closed solutions. Try to reverse engineer Apple´s firmware for compatibility reasons and you´ll see Apple lawyers coming to get you. They've found there's a broad end-user market for stuff that

Re: Nokia device usage

2009-03-09 Thread Mark
On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 12:29 PM, lakestevensdental lakestevensden...@verizon.net wrote: \ Good luck carrying that non-Apple albatross around your neck...  It's not like there's nothing to learn from the successful. Always, Fred C ...or non-Micro$oft, or non-Linux, or... it all depends on

Re: Nokia device usage

2009-03-09 Thread lakestevensdental
Mark wrote: On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 12:29 PM, lakestevensdental lakestevensden...@verizon.net wrote: \ Good luck carrying that non-Apple albatross around your neck... It's not like there's nothing to learn from the successful. Always, Fred C ...or non-Micro$oft, or non-Linux,

Re: Nokia device usage

2009-03-09 Thread Mark
On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 2:43 PM, lakestevensdental lakestevensden...@verizon.net wrote: Mark wrote: On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 12:29 PM, lakestevensdental lakestevensden...@verizon.net wrote: \ Good luck carrying that non-Apple albatross around your neck...  It's not like there's nothing to learn

Re: Nokia device usage

2009-03-09 Thread John Holmblad
Mark, re your comment Managing repositories is far beyond the understanding of the average consumer. Installing apps from source code is even less user-friendly. Far too many important apps must be installed with apt-get from the command line and don't show up at all in

Re: Nokia device usage

2009-03-09 Thread James Knott
Mark wrote: And the only reason that Linux and Macs are so relatively safe from viruses and worms is because they aren't targeted, not because they are fundamentally more secure. Well, considering that most web sites run Apache on Linux or Unix, I'm not so sure about that. And if you

Re: Nokia device usage

2009-03-09 Thread John Holmblad
Jean-Christian, the term 3g radio is a fairly broad term. The key is what software is going to be in the new G4 IT above the radio/physical layer. It would make sense, especially if Nokia decides that the G4 IT is going to go after the market served by the iphone, to give the G4 IT, full

Re: Nokia device usage

2009-03-08 Thread Jean-Christian de Rivaz
Andrew Flegg a écrit : On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 8:59 PM, Jean-Christian de Rivaz j...@eclis.ch wrote: I don't understand why the next tablet will not be able to make regular phone call, since it will have 3G link. It's a non sense. You seem awfully sure about the features of a device which has

Re: Nokia device usage

2009-03-08 Thread Andrew Flegg
On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 8:45 AM, Jean-Christian de Rivaz j...@eclis.ch wrote: From what I can find on the net, HSPA seem to be an extend of the 3G. So it seem logical to me that the next tablet will have 3G radio. Yup, that's practically assured. However, you were also talking about how it

Re: Nokia device usage

2009-03-08 Thread kenneth marken
Andrew Flegg wrote: On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 8:59 PM, Jean-Christian de Rivaz j...@eclis.ch wrote: I don't understand why the next tablet will not be able to make regular phone call, since it will have 3G link. It's a non sense. You seem awfully sure about the features of a device which has

Re: Nokia device usage

2009-03-08 Thread kenneth marken
John Holmblad wrote: Andrew, yes, I am being overly presumptuous as to what kind of radio technology will and will not be in the next turn of the IT hardware. I must have read it somewhere that it was going to be HSDPA only. HSDPA do not result in data only, as HSDPA only builds on

Re: Nokia device usage

2009-03-08 Thread John Holmblad
kenneth, I have not read the HSDPA spec myself but my assumption is that it is all packet, all the time As the P implies in HSDPA UMTS, as a superset of HSDPA incorporates various QOS and other features (roaming, voice connection awareness, etc) that are needed in order to properly

Re: Nokia device usage

2009-03-07 Thread Jean-Christian de Rivaz
John Holmblad a écrit : Jean-Chirstian, you have put into words a good operational definition of the mass market for the context of this discussion, that is: ...people that don't have some technical orientation Like many companies, Nokia seems to have been fooled into

Re: Nokia device usage

2009-03-07 Thread Matt Emson
See online reply. Sent from my iPhone On 7 Mar 2009, at 02:08, Fernando Cassia fcas...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 7:37 PM, John Holmblad jholmb...@acadiasecurenets.com wrote: I for one would like to see Apple acquire Nokia. That would be a great combination. A couple

Re: Nokia device usage

2009-03-07 Thread hendrik
On Sat, Mar 07, 2009 at 01:06:58PM +, Matt Emson wrote: 3. Apple does not support Free Software in general (if you know any Apple software released under the GNU GPL Free Software license, let me know) that puts it at odds with the N8xx tablets Linux OS foundation. Free software

Re: Nokia device usage

2009-03-07 Thread Julius Szelagiewicz
Mark, You can substitute Motorola cell phones for Nokia tablets and your arguments will remain valid. Hardware is easier than software. julius On Fri, 6 Mar 2009, Mark wrote: On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 3:52 PM, Andrew Flegg and...@bleb.org wrote: John, you wrote: [snip] I have to

Re: Nokia device usage

2009-03-07 Thread kenneth marken
Matt Emson wrote: See online reply. Sent from my iPhone On 7 Mar 2009, at 02:08, Fernando Cassia fcas...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 7:37 PM, John Holmblad jholmb...@acadiasecurenets.com wrote: I for one would like to see Apple acquire Nokia. That would be a great

Re: Nokia device usage

2009-03-07 Thread kenneth marken
hend...@topoi.pooq.com wrote: On Sat, Mar 07, 2009 at 01:06:58PM +, Matt Emson wrote: 3. Apple does not support Free Software in general (if you know any Apple software released under the GNU GPL Free Software license, let me know) that puts it at odds with the N8xx tablets Linux OS

Re: Nokia device usage

2009-03-07 Thread Matt Emson
Sent from my iPhone On 7 Mar 2009, at 16:05, Julius Szelagiewicz jul...@turtle.com wrote: Mark, You can substitute Motorola cell phones for Nokia tablets and your arguments will remain valid. Hardware is easier than software. julius Now, that's just plain mean!! No company makes

Re: Nokia device usage

2009-03-07 Thread John Holmblad
Jean-Christian, you are, of course, correct in that Nokia has had tremendous success with mass market mobile phones but not PDA's or IT's. Nokia might do well run the following experiment (in situ if you will) to get a better (and sooner than 2 more generations from now) grasp

Re: Nokia device usage

2009-03-07 Thread Jean-Christian de Rivaz
John Holmblad a écrit : Jean-Christian, Perhaps the forthcoming G4 of the IT, with its HSDPA support, if and when it is released, will eliminate the need for the handset altogether for those intrepid enough to replace their GSM voice provider with a provider of SIP trunking services.

Re: Nokia device usage

2009-03-07 Thread Mark
On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 10:24 AM, John Holmblad jholmb...@acadiasecurenets.com wrote: Jean-Christian, you are, of course, correct in that Nokia has had tremendous success with mass market mobile phones but not PDA's or IT's. Nokia might do well run the following experiment (in

Re: Nokia device usage

2009-03-07 Thread Andrew Flegg
On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 8:59 PM, Jean-Christian de Rivaz j...@eclis.ch wrote: I don't understand why the next tablet will not be able to make regular phone call, since it will have 3G link. It's a non sense. You seem awfully sure about the features of a device which has yet to be announced, let

Re: Nokia device usage

2009-03-07 Thread John Holmblad
Andrew, yes, I am being overly presumptuous as to what kind of radio technology will and will not be in the next turn of the IT hardware. I must have read it somewhere that it was going to be HSDPA only. . Best Regards, John Holmblad Acadia Secure Networks, LLC Andrew Flegg wrote:

Re: Nokia device usage

2009-03-07 Thread hendrik
On Sat, Mar 07, 2009 at 02:41:04PM -0700, Mark wrote: On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 10:24 AM, John Holmblad jholmb...@acadiasecurenets.com wrote: Jean-Christian, you are, of course, correct in that Nokia has had tremendous success with mass market mobile phones but not PDA's or

Re: Nokia device usage

2009-03-06 Thread Marius Gedminas
On Thu, Mar 05, 2009 at 11:48:26AM -0700, Mark wrote: On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 11:40 AM, Ryan Abel rabe...@gmail.com wrote: On Mar 5, 2009, at 1:38 PM, Mark wrote: On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 11:24 AM, Marius Gedminas mar...@pov.lt wrote: Overall, the current generations of NITs are far from

Re: Nokia device usage

2009-03-06 Thread Eero Tamminen
Hi, ext OgnenD wrote: It is too slow when browsing the net (compared to, for example, my Asus EEE or my laptop). Oh great, you are comparing an ultra low-power 320MHZ ARM CPU (RISC) vs a 1Ghz x86 CISC. It is not about computational power comparison, it is about functionality. If I can

Re: Nokia device usage

2009-03-06 Thread Ognen Duzlevski
Eero Tamminen wrote: Hi, ext OgnenD wrote: It is too slow when browsing the net (compared to, for example, my Asus EEE or my laptop). Oh great, you are comparing an ultra low-power 320MHZ ARM CPU (RISC) vs a 1Ghz x86 CISC. It is not about computational power comparison, it is about

Re: Nokia device usage

2009-03-06 Thread Ognen Duzlevski
Marius Gedminas wrote: On Thu, Mar 05, 2009 at 11:48:26AM -0700, Mark wrote: On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 11:40 AM, Ryan Abel rabe...@gmail.com wrote: On Mar 5, 2009, at 1:38 PM, Mark wrote: On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 11:24 AM, Marius Gedminas mar...@pov.lt wrote: Overall,

Re: Nokia device usage

2009-03-06 Thread Mark
On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 1:45 AM, Marius Gedminas mar...@pov.lt wrote: On Thu, Mar 05, 2009 at 11:48:26AM -0700, Mark wrote: On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 11:40 AM, Ryan Abel rabe...@gmail.com wrote: On Mar 5, 2009, at 1:38 PM, Mark wrote: On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 11:24 AM, Marius Gedminas

Re: Nokia device usage

2009-03-06 Thread Ryan Abel
On Mar 6, 2009, at 10:03 AM, Mark wrote: On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 1:45 AM, Marius Gedminas mar...@pov.lt wrote: On Thu, Mar 05, 2009 at 11:48:26AM -0700, Mark wrote: On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 11:40 AM, Ryan Abel rabe...@gmail.com wrote: On Mar 5, 2009, at 1:38 PM, Mark wrote: On Thu, Mar 5,

Re: Nokia device usage

2009-03-06 Thread Matt Emson
Mark wrote: Sure, they say it, after you've already bought the thing and are on a mailing list and a discussion such as this comes up, but NOWHERE in the sales literature or at any sales point that I've seen does it say that. That little morsel is *not* freely disseminated. I'm trying to stay

Re: Nokia device usage

2009-03-06 Thread Andrew Flegg
On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 3:59 PM, Matt Emson mem...@interalpha.co.uk wrote: I'm trying to stay out of this discussion, because it is a circular argument - no one will win because there is no simple correct stance. And now we've both failed at that :-) The N800 was never sold as anything *but*

Re: Nokia device usage

2009-03-06 Thread Aniello Del Sorbo
2009/3/6 Matt Emson mem...@interalpha.co.uk: Mark wrote: Sure, they say it, after you've already bought the thing and are on a mailing list and a discussion such as this comes up, but NOWHERE in the sales literature or at any sales point that I've seen does it say that. That little morsel is

Re: Nokia device usage

2009-03-06 Thread Ognen Duzlevski
Aniello Del Sorbo wrote: 2009/3/6 Matt Emson mem...@interalpha.co.uk: Mark wrote: Sure, they say it, after you've already bought the thing and are on a mailing list and a discussion such as this comes up, but NOWHERE in the sales literature or at any sales point that I've seen does

Re: Nokia device usage

2009-03-06 Thread Ognen Duzlevski
Andrew Flegg wrote: On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 3:59 PM, Matt Emson mem...@interalpha.co.uk wrote: I'm trying to stay out of this discussion, because it is a circular argument - no one will win because there is no simple correct stance. And now we've both failed at that :-) The

Re: Nokia device usage

2009-03-06 Thread gary liquid
the bike comes with a subscription to a community repair shop and new elements are being created for it every day. it includes out of the box an expansive toolkit able to mend and repair anything on your bike. A new water bottle was designed for the bike which actually allows you to continuously

Re: Nokia device usage

2009-03-06 Thread Aniello Del Sorbo
2009/3/6 Ognen Duzlevski og...@naniteworld.com: Aniello Del Sorbo wrote: 2009/3/6 Matt Emson mem...@interalpha.co.uk: Mark wrote: Sure, they say it, after you've already bought the thing and are on a mailing list and a discussion such as this comes up, but NOWHERE in the sales literature

Re: Nokia device usage

2009-03-06 Thread Aniello Del Sorbo
2009/3/6 gary liquid liq...@gmail.com: the bike comes with a subscription to a community repair shop and new elements are being created for it every day. it includes out of the box an expansive toolkit able to mend and repair anything on your bike. A new water bottle was designed for the bike

Re: Nokia device usage

2009-03-06 Thread Mark
On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 9:16 AM, gary liquid liq...@gmail.com wrote: the bike comes with a subscription to a community repair shop and new elements are being created for it every day. Provided you *want* all kinds of addons you will never need... it includes out of the box an expansive toolkit

Re: Nokia device usage

2009-03-06 Thread Aniello Del Sorbo
2009/3/6 Ognen Duzlevski og...@naniteworld.com: Andrew Flegg wrote: On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 3:59 PM, Matt Emson mem...@interalpha.co.uk wrote: I'm trying to stay out of this discussion, because it is a circular argument - no one will win because there is no simple correct stance. And now

Re: Nokia device usage

2009-03-06 Thread Ognen Duzlevski
gary liquid wrote: the bike comes with a subscription to a community repair shop and new elements are being created for it every day. it includes out of the box an expansive toolkit able to mend and repair anything on your bike. A new water bottle was designed for the bike which actually

Re: Nokia device usage

2009-03-06 Thread Aniello Del Sorbo
2009/3/6 Mark wolfm...@gmail.com: On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 9:16 AM, gary liquid liq...@gmail.com wrote: the bike comes with a subscription to a community repair shop and new elements are being created for it every day. Provided you *want* all kinds of addons you will never need... Provided

Re: Nokia device usage

2009-03-06 Thread Eero Tamminen
Hi, ext Mark wrote: On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 9:16 AM, gary liquid liq...@gmail.com wrote: the bike comes with a subscription to a community repair shop and new elements are being created for it every day. Provided you *want* all kinds of addons you will never need... it includes out of the

Re: Nokia device usage

2009-03-06 Thread Alejandro López
Andrew Flegg wrote: Agreed, and fully understandable. Can we draw up a list of what - exactly - the N8x0 fails to do out-of-the-box which it is advertised it *can* do; and requires hacker-like skills to enable? One thing that deceived me is that Skype was announced as and important

Re: Nokia device usage

2009-03-06 Thread Julius Szelagiewicz
I won't quote the whole thread, there was too much of a tail already. Mark seems to have many, many issues, some of them even connected to the tablet. Since he completly dismissed the corporate usage by misquoting the original post, I'll address that first. People using Nokia N8x0 tablets

Re: Nokia device usage

2009-03-06 Thread Eero Tamminen
Hi, ext Alejandro López wrote: Agreed, and fully understandable. Can we draw up a list of what - exactly - the N8x0 fails to do out-of-the-box which it is advertised it *can* do; and requires hacker-like skills to enable? One thing that deceived me is that Skype was announced as and

Re: Nokia device usage

2009-03-06 Thread Mark
On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 9:24 AM, Eero Tamminen eero.tammi...@nokia.com wrote: Hi, ext Mark wrote: On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 9:16 AM, gary liquid liq...@gmail.com wrote: the bike comes with a subscription to a community repair shop and new elements are being created for it every day. Provided

Re: Nokia device usage

2009-03-06 Thread Matt Emson
Andrew Flegg wrote: Agreed, and fully understandable. Can we draw up a list of what - exactly - the N8x0 fails to do out-of-the-box which it is advertised it *can* do; and requires hacker-like skills to enable? If I'd never owned another device (Palm, Handspring, Apple Newton, Sharp Zaurus

Re: Nokia device usage

2009-03-06 Thread Ognen Duzlevski
Julius Szelagiewicz wrote: The biggest beef seems to be that the Nokia tablets are not aimed at the idiots. As a business decision, it may be misguided, since idiots constitute a vast majority of the buying public. Personally I like to be treated as an adult. Julius, My intended

Re: Nokia device usage

2009-03-06 Thread Mark
On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 9:33 AM, Eero Tamminen eero.tammi...@nokia.com wrote: Hi, ext Alejandro López wrote: Agreed, and fully understandable. Can we draw up a list of what - exactly - the N8x0 fails to do out-of-the-box which it is advertised it *can* do; and requires hacker-like skills to

Re: Nokia device usage

2009-03-06 Thread Andrew Flegg
On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 4:40 PM, Matt Emson mem...@interalpha.co.uk wrote: Andrew Flegg wrote: Agreed, and fully understandable. Can we draw up a list of what - exactly - the N8x0 fails to do out-of-the-box which it is advertised it *can* do; and requires hacker-like skills to enable? [snip

Re: Nokia device usage

2009-03-06 Thread Ryan Abel
On Mar 6, 2009, at 11:28 AM, Julius Szelagiewicz wrote: I'm not crazy about out of the box experience and it annoys me to see on N8x0 the same counter productive underhanded tactics used my MS - the teaser apps you have to pay for later. Do you mind me asking which teaser apps? There's

Re: Nokia device usage

2009-03-06 Thread Mark
On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 9:46 AM, Andrew Flegg and...@bleb.org wrote: For all their flaws, I'm not aware of Nokia saying you could do something which you actually couldn't The fundamental problem is that you are *deliberately* unaware because you refuse to accept reality. Like G.W. Bush and a

Re: Nokia device usage

2009-03-06 Thread Andrew Flegg
On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 4:50 PM, Mark wolfm...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 9:46 AM, Andrew Flegg and...@bleb.org wrote: For all their flaws, I'm not aware of Nokia saying you could do something which you actually couldn't The fundamental problem is that you are *deliberately*

Re: Nokia device usage

2009-03-06 Thread Mark
My complaints notwithstanding, I use my N800 constantly. * I'm only halfway through my gpe contacts list correcting the import errors, but I'm already relying heavily on it for that. * I finally shoved my reservations aside and have started using Google Calendar to do my time planning. That has

Re: Nokia device usage

2009-03-06 Thread Matt Emson
Andrew Flegg wrote: Right, so although your complaints may be valid (I'm not saying they're not - honestly, I'd love my tablet to be faster, which is why I'm looking forward to an RX-51/71), they're not relevant to any discussion about Nokia mis-selling the tablets or promising they can do

Re: Nokia device usage

2009-03-06 Thread Scott
I am a very savy computer user. Started in Dos 3.3, wrote programs in Basic on and apple 2, worked my way thru windows and now have a job supporting Mac laptops for a school... so a fair amount of bike experience. My geek desk has various desktops ranging from Windows 2000 - Vista, a

Re: Nokia device usage

2009-03-06 Thread Mark
On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 9:56 AM, Andrew Flegg and...@bleb.org wrote: I'm trying to turn a flaming trollfest into something more constructive. Instead of calling me names, can you actually respond to my question: what has Nokia advertised that you can do on the device, that you can only do by

Re: Nokia device usage

2009-03-06 Thread Jean-Christian de Rivaz
Ognen Duzlevski a écrit : Hello, I am curious to find out what people use their Nokias for. If anyone could share their usage patterns, it would be appreciated. Hello, I own a N770. a N800 and a N810. I use a Nokia 6600 Slide for call, SMS, photo, agenda and modem. I hope that the next

Re: Nokia device usage

2009-03-06 Thread Fernando Cassia
On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 3:54 PM, OgnenD og...@naniteworld.com wrote: Not even going to comment. I think you need to re-read your email and reflect on your communication skills. Pretty uncivilized, in my opinion. Thanks, Ognen Ognen, OK I apologize. I didn´t know you had a CS degree and

Re: Nokia device usage

2009-03-06 Thread Mark
On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 10:49 AM, Jean-Christian de Rivaz j...@eclis.ch wrote: The concept is good, the hardware too. I think that the most opportunity to progress is in the usability of the applications. Too much small bugs or frustrating interface prevent to make the current tablet enjoyable

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