Re: [mailop] Microsoft Office365 not rejecting emails when instructed so by SPF recored?

> On 26 May 2023, at 19:16, Scott Mutter via mailop wrote: > > On Fri, May 26, 2023 at 12:34 PM Brandon Long > wrote: >> When forwarding mail, there are two options: rewrite the envelope sender or >> not. There are a variety of pros and cons to both of them, and

Re: [mailop] Microsoft Office365 not rejecting emails when instructed so by SPF recored?

Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop writes: > Dnia 26.05.2023 o godz. 13:16:39 Scott Mutter via mailop pisze: >> If you ask me - a better solution would be to do away with forwarding >> completely and incorporate POP checks, like Gmail does. This alleviates >> all of the issues with forwarding mail in

Re: [mailop] Microsoft Office365 not rejecting emails when instructed so by SPF recored?

Dnia 26.05.2023 o godz. 13:16:39 Scott Mutter via mailop pisze: > If you ask me - a better solution would be to do away with forwarding > completely and incorporate POP checks, like Gmail does. This alleviates > all of the issues with forwarding mail in relation to SPF and DKIM. No, because you

Re: [mailop] Microsoft Office365 not rejecting emails when instructed so by SPF recored?

On Fri, 26 May 2023, Scott Mutter via mailop wrote: If you ask me - a better solution would be to do away with forwarding completely and incorporate POP checks, like Gmail does. This alleviates all of the issues with forwarding mail in relation to SPF and DKIM. What happens when I send a

Re: [mailop] Microsoft Office365 not rejecting emails when instructed so by SPF recored?

> (...) > If you ask me - a better solution would be to do away with forwarding > completely and incorporate POP checks, like Gmail does. This alleviates > all of the issues with forwarding mail in relation to SPF and DKIM. > (...) There are sevral projects using forwarding. The Debian Project

Re: [mailop] Microsoft Office365 not rejecting emails when instructed so by SPF recored?

It appears that Brandon Long via mailop said: >Unlike SPF, DKIM was only authentication, not policy. The policy portion >was attempted via ADSP, but it suffered from the point that few enough >people implemented DKIM and how to handle the cases where the message was >modified. ADSP was a

Re: [mailop] Microsoft Office365 not rejecting emails when instructed so by SPF recored?

It appears that Scott Mutter via mailop said: >But I know that stance is wildly unpopular since it breaks the "it used to >work that way" narrative. ... No, it's wildly unpopular because it is blaming the victim. You might as well also say that every mailing list should shut down in favor of

Re: [mailop] Microsoft Office365 not rejecting emails when instructed so by SPF recored?

On Fri, May 26, 2023 at 12:34 PM Brandon Long wrote: > When forwarding mail, there are two options: rewrite the envelope sender > or not. There are a variety of pros and cons to both of them, and cases > where one or the other is more prominent. Not rewriting has been the > dominant form of

Re: [mailop] Microsoft Office365 not rejecting emails when instructed so by SPF recored?

On Fri, May 26, 2023 at 9:47 AM Scott Mutter via mailop wrote: > It just seems that if people would read the documentation for SPF and > specify exactly what IP addresses are suppose to be sending email from your > domain name (I mean... if you own that domain name, shouldn't you know what > IP

Re: [mailop] Microsoft Office365 not rejecting emails when instructed so by SPF recored?

It just seems that if people would read the documentation for SPF and specify exactly what IP addresses are suppose to be sending email from your domain name (I mean... if you own that domain name, shouldn't you know what IP addresses are going to be sending legitimate mail from that domain?) then

Re: [mailop] Microsoft Office365 not rejecting emails when instructed so by SPF recored?

Dnia 25.05.2023 o godz. 20:10:02 Scott Mutter via mailop pisze: > So basically SPF is worthless. You can define all the IPs that legitimate > mail for the domain should be coming from and exclude everything else with > a -all and mail servers are just supposed to ignore that and look for a >

Re: [mailop] Microsoft Office365 not rejecting emails when instructed so by SPF recored?

Never mind – or ? and think of what happens to those poor domains that are saddled with a +all SPF record. From: mailop on behalf of Neil Jenkins via mailop Date: Friday, 26 May 2023 at 9:16 AM To: Mailop Group Subject: Re: [mailop] Microsoft Office365 not rejecting emails when instructed

Re: [mailop] Microsoft Office365 not rejecting emails when instructed so by SPF recored?

On Fri, 26 May 2023, at 11:10, Scott Mutter via mailop wrote: > So basically SPF is worthless. It's not worthless at all. It's a valuable signal to assign reputation as part of an overall filtering solution, and useful as part of DMARC. It's just the `-all`/`?all` etc. bit on the end that

Re: [mailop] Microsoft Office365 not rejecting emails when instructed so by SPF recored?

So basically SPF is worthless. You can define all the IPs that legitimate mail for the domain should be coming from and exclude everything else with a -all and mail servers are just supposed to ignore that and look for a DMARC record? Talk about robbing Peter to pay Paul. What's next? Another

Re: [mailop] Microsoft Office365 not rejecting emails when instructed so by SPF recored?

Dňa 25. mája 2023 13:36:13 UTC používateľ John Levine via mailop napísal: >it is quite antisocial to send mail but not accept responses. I agree with domains sending but not receiving to be not good. I even didn't consider that case. >By far the main use of >Null MX is for domains that do no

Re: [mailop] Microsoft Office365 not rejecting emails when instructed so by SPF recored?

It appears that Slavko via mailop said: >>Interpretation aside, the fact they are (mis?)understood to be the same thing >>is a clear conflation. It may be language based, it may >not, but please stop splitting this specific hair. > >I am confused now as in RFC 7505 sect. 4.2 one can read: > >

Re: [mailop] Microsoft Office365 not rejecting emails when instructed so by SPF recored?

from a domain you don't receive into, but that does not make -all and NullMX the same. Mike -Original Message- From: mailop On Behalf Of Slavko via mailop Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2023 1:34 AM To: mailop@mailop.org Subject: Re: [mailop] Microsoft Office365 not rejecting emails when

Re: [mailop] Microsoft Office365 not rejecting emails when instructed so by SPF recored?

Am 25.05.23 um 07:33 schrieb Slavko via mailop: I am confused now as in RFC 7505 sect. 4.2 one can read: Null MX is primarily intended for domains that do not send or receive any mail... And: ...mail systems SHOULD NOT publish a null MX record for domains that they use in

Re: [mailop] Microsoft Office365 not rejecting emails when instructed so by SPF recored?

Dňa 24. mája 2023 22:41:01 UTC používateľ Graeme Fowler via mailop napísal: >[moderator note] > >SPF asserts senders (by definition) >NullMX asserts receivers (also by definition) > >Interpretation aside, the fact they are (mis?)understood to be the same thing >is a clear conflation. It may be

Re: [mailop] Microsoft Office365 not rejecting emails when instructed so by SPF recored?

[moderator note] SPF asserts senders (by definition) NullMX asserts receivers (also by definition) Interpretation aside, the fact they are (mis?)understood to be the same thing is a clear conflation. It may be language based, it may not, but please stop splitting this specific hair. Thanks

Re: [mailop] Microsoft Office365 not rejecting emails when instructed so by SPF recored?

It appears that Benny Pedersen via mailop said: >test it please, do you see spf rejects or nullmx rejects ? nullmx rejects >sendmail -f ab...@example.org -bv ab...@example.org Well, yeah, you're faking an example.org sending address. Don't Do That. As Laura pointed out, and you just agreed,

Re: [mailop] Microsoft Office365 not rejecting emails when instructed so by SPF recored?

John Levine via mailop skrev den 2023-05-24 19:50: same thing I checked with the guy who wrote the Null MX RFC and he is quite sure they're not the same thing. xpoint@tux ~ $ dig example.org txt ;; ANSWER SECTION: example.org.86400 IN TXT

Re: [mailop] Microsoft Office365 not rejecting emails when instructed so by SPF recored?

It appears that Benny Pedersen via mailop said: >John Levine via mailop skrev den 2023-05-24 01:58: > >>> domains with this spf would possible know that spf is more weak then >>> then rfc 7505 (nullMX) ? >> >> No, not at all. >> >> SPF -all says a domain doesn't send mail. > >+1 > >if recipient

Re: [mailop] Microsoft Office365 not rejecting emails when instructed so by SPF recored?

Laura Atkins via mailop skrev den 2023-05-24 10:03: nullMX means the domain doesn’t receive mail. v=spf1 -all means the domain doesn’t send mail. When I’m working with clients who are setting up domains for not-email I recommend both as they address the issue from different directions. end

Re: [mailop] Microsoft Office365 not rejecting emails when instructed so by SPF recored?

> On 23 May 2023, at 21:09, Benny Pedersen via mailop wrote: > > Todd Herr via mailop skrev den 2023-05-23 20:54: > >>> Indeed, an email will only be rejected if it has DMARC setup as >>> reject. >> There should be one exception to the rule of waiting till after DATA >> to check for a DMARC

Re: [mailop] Microsoft Office365 not rejecting emails when instructed so by SPF recored?

John Levine via mailop skrev den 2023-05-24 01:58: domains with this spf would possible know that spf is more weak then then rfc 7505 (nullMX) ? No, not at all. SPF -all says a domain doesn't sent mail. +1 if recipient check sender domain, its imho same thing if recipent do not check

Re: [mailop] Microsoft Office365 not rejecting emails when instructed so by SPF recored?

It appears that Benny Pedersen via mailop said: >> It seems wholly appropriate to reject at MAIL FROM if the RFC5321.From >> domain publishes an SPF policy that says "This domain is not used to >> send mail, ever." > >domains with this spf would possible know that spf is more weak then >then rfc

Re: [mailop] Microsoft Office365 not rejecting emails when instructed so by SPF recored?

On Tue, May 23, 2023 at 4:13 PM Benny Pedersen via mailop wrote: > Todd Herr via mailop skrev den 2023-05-23 20:54: > > >> Indeed, an email will only be rejected if it has DMARC setup as > >> reject. > > > > There should be one exception to the rule of waiting till after DATA > > to check for a

Re: [mailop] Microsoft Office365 not rejecting emails when instructed so by SPF recored?

Todd Herr via mailop skrev den 2023-05-23 20:54: Indeed, an email will only be rejected if it has DMARC setup as reject. There should be one exception to the rule of waiting till after DATA to check for a DMARC policy, and that's in the case of the following SPF record: "v=spf1 -all" It

Re: [mailop] Microsoft Office365 not rejecting emails when instructed so by SPF recored?

On Tue, May 23, 2023 at 2:24 PM Alex Liu via mailop wrote: > Indeed, an email will only be rejected if it has DMARC setup as reject. > There should be one exception to the rule of waiting till after DATA to check for a DMARC policy, and that's in the case of the following SPF record: "v=spf1

Re: [mailop] Microsoft Office365 not rejecting emails when instructed so by SPF recored?

Indeed, an email will only be rejected if it has DMARC setup as reject. I can attest that personal email services such as Outlook / MSN do reject email properly (in case of DMARC fail and the FROM domain has a reject policy). On Tue, May 23, 2023 at 7:43 AM Matthäus Wander via mailop <

Re: [mailop] Microsoft Office365 not rejecting emails when instructed so by SPF recored?

Benoit Panizzon via mailop wrote on 2023-05-23 15:35: Hi List I'm surprised... six-group.com is the biggest payment platform in Switzerland. Of course they use SPF to protect their domain from being abused by phishers. six-group.com does not use DMARC, so I would say there is room to

Re: [mailop] Microsoft Office365 not rejecting emails when instructed so by SPF recored?

> It looks like GV0CHE01FT013.mail.protection.outlook.com is happily accepting phishing emails which, according to SPF should get rejected. No, they shouldn't. Specifying how unauthenticated mail from a domain should be treated is done using DMARC. smime.p7s Description: S/MIME

Re: [mailop] Microsoft Office365 not rejecting emails when instructed so by SPF recored?

Assuming you're emailing someone that's an Office 365 customer, it's largely dependent on the receiving tenant's spam filtering configuration within O365 spam settings and Defender. Exchange Online itself does not outright reject SPF failure unless a customer has configured it to do so. -

[mailop] Microsoft Office365 not rejecting emails when instructed so by SPF recored?

Hi List I'm surprised... six-group.com is the biggest payment platform in Switzerland. Of course they use SPF to protect their domain from being abused by phishers. It looks like GV0CHE01FT013.mail.protection.outlook.com is happily accepting phishing emails which, according to SPF should get