Re: Has virtualization become obsolete in 5G?

Maybe I am off topic a little bit here and i'd like to be educated if i am wrong but I think those 5G applications will move from VMs into containers/microservices when their vendors see a business case to rearchitect them, maybe its already happening as we speak. On the other side of that coin

Re: Issue with Noction IRP default setting (Was: BGP route hijack by AS10990)

Ryan, To continue with your analogy, this would be more similar to someone who has never driven before walking into a dealership and buying a new car to drive off the lot. Ultimately the responsibility is on the driver, but the dealership should have never sold them the car in the first place.

Re: Has virtualization become obsolete in 5G?

In article <20200801143522.e25a8...@m0117164.ppops.net> you write: >--- ed...@ieee.org wrote: >From: Etienne-Victor Depasquale > >See, for example, Azhar Sayeed's (Red Hat) contribution here >@15:33.

Re: Issue with Noction IRP default setting (Was: BGP route hijack by AS10990)

On Sat, Aug 1, 2020 at 4:47 PM Ryan Hamel wrote: > Matt, > > Why are you blaming the ease of use on the vendor, for the operators lack > of knowledge regarding BGP? That is like blaming a vehicle manufacturer for > a person pressing the gas pedal in a car and not giving a toss about the > rules

Re: Has virtualization become obsolete in 5G?

Buzzwords have a limited life before the vendors need to make up something else to invoice you for. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest-IX http://www.midwest-ix.com - Original Message - From: "Etienne-Victor Depasquale" To:

Re: Issue with Noction IRP default setting (Was: BGP route hijack by AS10990)

Matt, Why are you blaming the ease of use on the vendor, for the operators lack of knowledge regarding BGP? That is like blaming a vehicle manufacturer for a person pressing the gas pedal in a car and not giving a toss about the rules of the road. The base foundation regarding the rules of the

Re: Issue with Noction IRP default setting (Was: BGP route hijack by AS10990)

Was Tulix using Noction, or was it something else that caused their particular issue? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest-IX http://www.midwest-ix.com - Original Message - From: "Job Snijders" To: nanog@nanog.org Sent:

Re: Issue with Noction IRP default setting (Was: BGP route hijack by AS10990)

Ryan, The reason Noction is being singled out here as opposed to other BGP speakers is that it inherently breaks several BGP protection mechanisms as a means to achieve its purpose. BGP was never intended to be "optimized", it was intended to be stable and scalable. While i'm sure there are

Re: Has virtualization become obsolete in 5G?

The short answer is that the "Cloud Native Computing" folks need to talk to the Intel Embedded Systems Application engineers to discover that micro services have been running on Intel hardware in (non-standard) containers for years. We call it real time computing, process control,... Current multi

Re: BGP route hijack by AS10990

> On Aug 1, 2020, at 12:59 PM, Sabri Berisha wrote: > > - On Aug 1, 2020, at 12:50 PM, Nick Hilliard n...@foobar.org wrote: > > Hi, > >> Sabri Berisha wrote on 01/08/2020 20:03: >>> but because Noction's decision to not enable NO_EXPORT by default >> >> the primary problem is not this

Re: Has virtualization become obsolete in 5G?

--- ed...@ieee.org wrote: From: Etienne-Victor Depasquale See, for example, Azhar Sayeed's (Red Hat) contribution here @15:33. Don't send links to this list that require

Re: Has virtualization become obsolete in 5G?

On 1/Aug/20 18:23, Robert Raszuk wrote: > Virtualization is not becoming obsolete ... quite reverse in fact in > all types of deployments I can see around.  > > The point is that VM provides hardware virtualization while kubernetes > with containers virtualize OS apps and services are running

Re: BGP route hijack by AS10990

On 1/Aug/20 21:31, Owen DeLong wrote: > I disagree. I think Noction and Telia are both culpable here. Most of the top > 200 providers > manage to do prefix filtering at the customer edge, so I don’t see any reason > to give > Telia a free pass here. Both Noction and Telia are culpable,

Re: BGP route hijack by AS10990

On 1/Aug/20 21:20, Owen DeLong wrote: > IP Prefix level filtering at the customer edge is not that hard, no > matter how large of a transit > provider you are. Customer edge filtration by Telia in this case would > have prevented this > problem from spreading beyond the misconfigured ASN. +1.

Re: BGP route hijack by AS10990

On 1/Aug/20 21:03, Sabri Berisha wrote: > The same can be said here. Noction and/or its operators appear to not > understand > how BGP works, and/or what safety measures must be deployed to ensure that the > larger internet will not be hurt by misconfiguration. I think the latter would be

Re: BGP route hijack by AS10990

On 1/Aug/20 20:14, Hank Nussbacher wrote: > AS  level filtering is easy.  IP prefix level filtering is hard.  > Especially when you are in the top 200: > > https://asrank.caida.org/ > Doesn't immediately make sense to me why prefix filtering is hard. > > That being said, and due to these BGP

Re: Issue with Noction IRP default setting (Was: BGP route hijack by AS10990)

Job, I disagree on the fact that it is not fair to the BGP implementation ecosystem, to enforce a single piece of software to activate the no-export community by default, due to ignorance from the engineer(s) implementing the solution. It should be common sense that certain routes that should

Re: BGP route hijack by AS10990

Sabri Berisha wrote on 01/08/2020 20:59: My point is that there can be operational reasons to do so, and whatever they wish to do on their network is perfectly fine. As long as they don't bother the rest of the world with it. I get what you're saying, and am a big fan of personal

Re: BGP route hijack by AS10990

- On Aug 1, 2020, at 12:50 PM, Nick Hilliard n...@foobar.org wrote: Hi, > Sabri Berisha wrote on 01/08/2020 20:03: >> but because Noction's decision to not enable NO_EXPORT by default > > the primary problem is not this but that Noction reinjects prefixes into > the local ibgp mesh with the

Re: BGP route hijack by AS10990

Sabri Berisha wrote on 01/08/2020 20:03: but because Noction's decision to not enable NO_EXPORT by default the primary problem is not this but that Noction reinjects prefixes into the local ibgp mesh with the as-path stripped and then prioritises these prefixes so that they're learned as the

Re: BGP route hijack by AS10990

> On Aug 1, 2020, at 12:03 , Sabri Berisha wrote: > > Hi, > > - On Aug 1, 2020, at 8:49 AM, Owen DeLong o...@delong.com wrote: > >> In fact, there are striking parallels between Asiana 214 and this incident. > > Yes. Children of the magenta line. Depending on automation, and no clue

Re: BGP route hijack by AS10990

> On Aug 1, 2020, at 11:14 , Hank Nussbacher wrote: > > On 01/08/2020 00:50, Mark Tinka wrote: >> On 31/Jul/20 23:38, Sabri Berisha wrote: >> >>> Kudos to Telia for admitting their mistakes, and fixing their processes. >> Considering Telia's scope and "experience", that is one thing. But for

Re: BGP route hijack by AS10990

Hi, - On Aug 1, 2020, at 8:49 AM, Owen DeLong o...@delong.com wrote: > In fact, there are striking parallels between Asiana 214 and this incident. Yes. Children of the magenta line. Depending on automation, and no clue what to do when the Instrument Landing System goes down. But, the most

Re: BGP route hijack by AS10990

On 1/Aug/20 18:46, Owen DeLong wrote: > ROFLMAO, if you truly believe this, you have no concept of life in the > cockpit. I was born into aviation, with both my mom and dad licensed ATPL pilots for several decades. So I know my way around a number of different cockpits. The goal wasn't to

Re: Has virtualization become obsolete in 5G?

An operating system is just a high-level machine. That the M-plane in VM is implemented in software isn’t relevant, as pretty much all hardware CPUs are implemented in software as well, so VM is just virtualizing software already. Containerization is VM, but using the OS as the M-plane As long

Re: BGP route hijack by AS10990

On 01/08/2020 00:50, Mark Tinka wrote: On 31/Jul/20 23:38, Sabri Berisha wrote: Kudos to Telia for admitting their mistakes, and fixing their processes. Considering Telia's scope and "experience", that is one thing. But for the general

Re: Has virtualization become obsolete in 5G?

> > Clearly to virtualize operating systems as long as your level of > virtualization mainly in terms of security and resource consumption > isolation & reservation is satisfactory is a much better and lighter > option. > That pretty much sums up Intel's view. To quote an Intel executive I was

Issue with Noction IRP default setting (Was: BGP route hijack by AS10990)

On Sat, Aug 01, 2020 at 06:50:55AM -0700, Ca By wrote: > I am not normally supporting a heavy hand in regulation, but i think it is > fair to say Noction and similar BGP optimizers are unsafe at any speed and > the FTC or similar should ban them in the USA. They harm consumers and are > a risk to

Re: BGP route hijack by AS10990

> On Aug 1, 2020, at 09:09 , Mark Tinka wrote: > > > > On 1/Aug/20 17:49, Owen DeLong wrote: > >> Aviation makes a strong effort in this area, perhaps stronger than any other >> human endeavor, especially when you’re talking about the fraction of >> Aviation known in the US as “Part 121

Re: Has virtualization become obsolete in 5G?

> > I reason that Intel's implication is that virtualization is becoming > obsolete. > Would anyone care to let me know his thoughts on this prediction? > Virtualization is not becoming obsolete ... quite reverse in fact in all types of deployments I can see around. The point is that VM provides

Re: BGP route hijack by AS10990

On 1/Aug/20 17:49, Owen DeLong wrote: > Aviation makes a strong effort in this area, perhaps stronger than any other > human endeavor, especially when you’re talking about the fraction of > Aviation known in the US as “Part 121 Scheduled Air Carrier Services”. > > However, as noted above,

Re: BGP route hijack by AS10990

> On Aug 1, 2020, at 04:20 , Mark Tinka wrote: > > > > On 1/Aug/20 02:17, Sabri Berisha wrote: > >> I'm not sure if you read their entire Mea Culpa, but they did indicate that >> the root cause of this issue was the provisioning of a legacy filter that >> they are no longer using. So

Re: Has virtualization become obsolete in 5G?

On 1/Aug/20 16:52, Etienne-Victor Depasquale wrote: > But the point is just that: how serious is this progression towards > cloud-native, if so much effort was put in to virtualization? I suspect that if a significant amount of investment has already gone into classic NFV, and for the most

Re: BGP route hijack by AS10990

On 1/Aug/20 16:44, Nick Hilliard wrote: > ... so once again, route optimisers were at the heart of another > serious route leaking incident. > > BGP is designed to prevent loops from happening, and has tools like > no-export to help prevent inadvertent leaks. > > When people build "BGP

Re: Has virtualization become obsolete in 5G?

On 1/Aug/20 16:33, Ca By wrote: > > Be careful not to confuse vendors pumping stuff with whats actually > deployed. Words of wisdom. Mark.

Re: BGP route hijack by AS10990

On 1/Aug/20 15:50, Ca By wrote: > > Aviation is regulated. Which is my point. While, like you, I am not in support in heavy-handed regulation like most life & death industries require, we also can't be leaving our industry open for any actor to do as they please. > > I am not normally

Re: Has virtualization become obsolete in 5G?

> > Be careful not to confuse vendors pumping stuff with whats actually > deployed. > Well yes, there's always the hype factor to discount. The reason why I'm asking this forum is to separate hype from hope. Also, AT has been doing virtualization for nearly 10 years now, so > perhaps you were

Re: BGP route hijack by AS10990

Mark Tinka wrote on 01/08/2020 12:20: The difference between us and aviation is that fundamental flaws or mistakes that impact safety are required to be fixed and checked if you want to keep operating in the industry. We don't have that, so... ... so once again, route optimisers were at the

Re: Has virtualization become obsolete in 5G?

On Sat, Aug 1, 2020 at 7:21 AM Etienne-Victor Depasquale wrote: > The surprise for me regards Intel's (and the entire Cloud Native Computing > Foundation's?) readiness to move past network functions run on VMs > and towards network functions run as microservices in containers. > > See, for

Re: Has virtualization become obsolete in 5G?

The surprise for me regards Intel's (and the entire Cloud Native Computing Foundation's?) readiness to move past network functions run on VMs and towards network functions run as microservices in containers. See, for example, Azhar Sayeed's (Red Hat) contribution here

Re: BGP route hijack by AS10990

On Sat, Aug 1, 2020 at 4:21 AM Mark Tinka wrote: > > > What I meant by "TOTALLY avoidable" is that "this particular plane > crash" has happened in the exact same way, for the exact same reasons, > over and over again. > > Aviation learns from mistakes that don't generally recur in the exact >

Re: Has virtualization become obsolete in 5G?

On 1/Aug/20 11:23, Etienne-Victor Depasquale wrote: > Over the past few weeks, I've attended webinars and watched videos > organized by Intel.  > These activities have centred on 5G and examined applications (like > "visual cloud" and "gaming"),  > as well as segment-oriented aspects (like edge

Re: BGP route hijack by AS10990

On 1/Aug/20 02:17, Sabri Berisha wrote: > I'm not sure if you read their entire Mea Culpa, but they did indicate that > the root cause of this issue was the provisioning of a legacy filter that > they are no longer using. So effectively, that makes it a human error. > > We're going to a point

Has virtualization become obsolete in 5G?

Hi folks, Over the past few weeks, I've attended webinars and watched videos organized by Intel. These activities have centred on 5G and examined applications (like "visual cloud" and "gaming"), as well as segment-oriented aspects (like edge networks, 5G RAN and 5G Core). I am stunned (no