On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 7:59 AM Edvinas Kairys
wrote:
> Hello,
>
> We're considering to buy some Cisco boxes - NCS-55A1-24H. That box has
> 24x100G, but only 2.2mln route (FIB) memory entries. In a near future it
> will be not enough - so we're thinking to deny all /24s to save the memory.
> What
On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 05:58:45PM +0300,
Edvinas Kairys wrote
a message of 35 lines which said:
> But theoretically every filtered /24 could be routed via smaller
> prefix /23 /22 /21 or etc.
I don't think this is true, even in theory, specially for legacy
prefixes. There is probably somewhe
There's 69,055 pure /24's allocated or assigned directly from an RIRs. At least
c,d,e, and g root servers only have /24s allocated to them. Major services like
Cloudflare only advertise the /24 without advertising an aggregate.
Unless you're also getting a default from upstream, it sounds like
On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 7:58 AM Edvinas Kairys wrote:
> We're considering to buy some Cisco boxes - NCS-55A1-24H. That box has
> 24x100G, but only 2.2mln route (FIB) memory entries. In a near future it will
> be not enough - so we're thinking to deny all /24s to save the memory. What
> do you t
On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 05:20:33PM +0200,
Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote
a message of 10 lines which said:
> > But theoretically every filtered /24 could be routed via smaller
> > prefix /23 /22 /21 or etc.
>
> I don't think this is true, even in theory, specially for legacy
> prefixes.
I even fi
If you filter out /23 or longer you cut the v4 table size about in half. I
have done this with some edge and eyeball network clients that had really
old or underpowered routing gear and upgrades were just not in the budget,
and they could barely spell BGP.
I know of a number of ASNs with SUP720 e
Feasibility of adding some middleware that culls unneeded routes (existing more
specific and aggregate routes pointing to the same next hop), when that table
starts to fill?
Not great for passing downstream, but should fill a need internally.
-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Sol
On 10/10/22 16:58, Edvinas Kairys wrote:
Hello,
We're considering to buy some Cisco boxes - NCS-55A1-24H. That box has
24x100G, but only 2.2mln route (FIB) memory entries. In a near future
it will be not enough - so we're thinking to deny all /24s to save the
memory. What do you think abo
On 10/10/22 07:58, Edvinas Kairys wrote:
Hello,
We're considering to buy some Cisco boxes - NCS-55A1-24H. That box has
24x100G, but only 2.2mln route (FIB) memory entries. In a near future it
will be not enough - so we're thinking to deny all /24s to save the
memory. What do you think about t
On 10/10/22 17:26, William Herrin wrote:
The Internet FIB is around 900k IPv4 routes. You have years before
exhausting a 2.2M table.
Depends on what else they may be carrying in their IGP, MPLS domain, SR
domain, e.t.c.
Mark.
> we're thinking to deny all /24s to save the memory
i recommend this to all my competitors
randy
na...@ics-il.net (Mike Hammett) wrote:
> Feasibility of adding some middleware that culls unneeded routes (existing
> more specific and aggregate routes pointing to the same next hop), when that
> table starts to fill?
Well... if that covering prefix goes away, let's hope you still have a defau
On 2022-10-10 09:39, Jay Hennigan wrote:
On 10/10/22 07:58, Edvinas Kairys wrote:
We're considering to buy some Cisco boxes - NCS-55A1-24H. That box
has 24x100G, but only 2.2mln route (FIB) memory entries. In a near
future it will be not enough - so we're thinking to deny all /24s to
save the
quot;NANOG Operators' Group"
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2022 10:48:56 AM
Subject: Re: any dangers of filtering every /24 on full internet table to
preserve FIB space ?
na...@ics-il.net (Mike Hammett) wrote:
> Feasibility of adding some middleware that culls unneeded routes (existi
There are most definitely a number of organizations that have /24s that are not
part of a larger aggregate.
If you don’t have a default route to some router that takes the full table on
your behalf, then you will loose connectivity to/from those entities.
Owen
> On Oct 10, 2022, at 07:58 , Ed
filtering every /24 on full internet table to
preserve FIB space ?
On 10/10/22 07:58, Edvinas Kairys wrote:
> Hello,
>
> We're considering to buy some Cisco boxes - NCS-55A1-24H. That box has
> 24x100G, but only 2.2mln route (FIB) memory entries. In a near future it
>
On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 8:37 AM Mike Hammett wrote:
> Feasibility of adding some middleware that culls unneeded routes (existing
> more specific and aggregate routes pointing to the same next hop), when that
> table starts to fill?
This is called "FIB aggregation." It exists and works but is no
You’ll need to be very selective about the IP ranges you apply that filter to,
or more likely, just do it and make sure have one or more default routes to
devices/providers that carry full tables.
As for alternate devices, have you looked at Arista 7280, particularly the
Jericho >1 versions.
There has been a number of efforts to implement FIB (actually BGP RIB)
compression. There’s a white paper from MS research; I recall Spotify talking
of running off-box BGP compression SW and re-injecting summarized BGP RIB;
Volta Networks had an implementation of full BGP table compression to ab
On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 11:18 AM Jeff Tantsura wrote:
> There has been a number of efforts to implement FIB (actually BGP RIB)
> compression.
> There’s a white paper from MS research; I recall Spotify talking of running
> off-box BGP
> compression SW and re-injecting summarized BGP RIB;
Hi Je
On 10/10/22 9:20 AM, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote:
But theoretically every filtered /24 could be routed via smaller
prefix /23 /22 /21 or etc.
I don't think this is true, even in theory, specially for legacy
prefixes. There is probably somewhere a Geoff Huston survey on /24
without a covering route
< rant >
there once used to be 'swamp' space, down in the low 190s where /24s
were expected. and folk/rirs tried to keep shorter aggregates, e.g.
/19s, as the norm above swamp (negotiated at ietf/danvers). in those
days, one could actually filter above swamp on /19. for a while, one
could even
: 5234, '14': 2569, '13': 1346, '19':
5019, '18': 1717, '12': 2011, '9': 78, '20': 3210, '15': 1760, '8': 513, '11':
3001, '10': 1721}}
22 {'no_less_specific': 59137, 'has_
> On 11 Oct 2022, at 4:23 am, Tobias Fiebig
> wrote:
>
> Heho,
> Let alone $all the /24 assigned under the RIPE waiting list policy.
>
> In the Geoff Huston spirit, I quickly took a look how less specifics for /24s
> looks in my table:
>
[…]
> So it seems like there is a healthy amount (~2
The OP can always take the provider's address space plus their
customer's routes and use a default route to fill in the blanks.I
did this at a provider years ago where the global routing table
outgrew the speed they could spend the money on upgrades and it worked
out well.I think it was two
I frequently do this (accept peer’s, and their customers prefixes), and it
works out well. Then you can choose where you want the rest of it to go.
With multiple peers in your country this works out quite well.
On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 5:02 PM richey goldberg
wrote:
> The OP can always take the p
Randy Bush wrote:
> it is a tragedy that cidr and an open market has helped us more than
> ipv6 has.
True.
Maybe cidr and an open market for ipv6 addresses would reduce the tragedy?
John
On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 8:44 AM Mark Tinka wrote:
> On 10/10/22 16:58, Edvinas Kairys wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > We're considering to buy some Cisco boxes - NCS-55A1-24H. That box has
> > 24x100G, but only 2.2mln route (FIB) memory entries. In a near future
> > it will be not enough - so we're t
> On Oct 10, 2022, at 6:37 PM, Matthew Petach wrote:
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 8:44 AM Mark Tinka wrote:
> On 10/10/22 16:58, Edvinas Kairys wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > We're considering to buy some Cisco boxes - NCS-55A1-24H. That box has
> > 24x100G, but only 2.2mln route (FIB) memo
Link to Arista article about their Spotify deployment (2016), has all the relevant links, can be implemented on variety of vendors https://aristanetworks.force.com/AristaCommunity/s/article/spotifys-sdn-internet-routerCheers,JeffOn Oct 10, 2022, at 15:57, Ryan Rawdon wrote:On Oct 10, 2022, at 6:3
- Original Message -
> From: "Randy Bush"
> To: "Edvinas Kairys"
> Subject: Re: any dangers of filtering every /24 on full internet table to
> preserve FIB space ?
>> we're thinking to deny all /24s to save the memory
>
> i recommend t
On 10/11/22 00:37, Matthew Petach wrote:
They became even more huffy, insisting that we were breaking the
internet by not
following the correct routing for the more-specific /24s which were no
longer present
in our tables. No amount of trying to explain to them that they
should not adver
On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 3:37 PM Matthew Petach wrote:
> They became even more huffy, insisting that we were breaking the internet by
> not
> following the correct routing for the more-specific /24s which were no longer
> present
> in our tables. No amount of trying to explain to them that they
On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 7:41 AM William Herrin wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 3:37 PM Matthew Petach
> wrote:
> > They became even more huffy, insisting that we were breaking the
> internet by not
> > following the correct routing for the more-specific /24s which were no
> longer present
> > i
On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 1:15 PM Matthew Petach wrote:
> Wouldn't that same argument mean that every ISP that isn't honoring
> my /26 announcement, but is instead following the covering /24, or /20,
> or whatever sized prefix is equally in the wrong?
>
> What makes /24 boundaries magically "OK" to
chard GolodnerInfratection IT Services
Original message From: William Herrin Date:
10/11/22 16:00 (GMT-06:00) To: Matthew Petach Cc:
nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: any dangers of filtering every /24 on full
internet table to
preserve FIB space ? On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 1:15 PM Matthew Petach
On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 1:59 PM William Herrin wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 1:15 PM Matthew Petach
> wrote:
> > Wouldn't that same argument mean that every ISP that isn't honoring
> > my /26 announcement, but is instead following the covering /24, or /20,
> > or whatever sized prefix is equa
On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 5:32 PM Matthew Petach wrote:
> My point is that it's not a feature of BGP, it's a purely human convention,
> arrived at through the intersection of pain and laziness.
> There's nothing inherently "right" or "wrong" about where the line was
> drawn, so for networks to decid
Matthew Petach писал(а) 2022-10-11 20:33:
My point is that it's not a feature of BGP, it's a purely human
convention,
arrived at through the intersection of pain and laziness.
There's nothing inherently "right" or "wrong" about where the line was
drawn, so for networks to decide that /24 is cau
On Wed, Oct 12, 2022 at 7:54 AM Andrey Kostin wrote:
> IMO this line wasn't arbitrary, it was (and it still is) a smallest
> possible network size allocated by RIRs. So it's just a common sense to
> receive everything down to /24 to have the complete data about all
> Internet participants.
Hi And
Andrey,
On Oct 12, 2022, at 7:54 AM, Andrey Kostin wrote:
>> My point is that it's not a feature of BGP, it's a purely human convention,
>> arrived at through the intersection of pain and laziness. There's nothing
>> inherently "right" or "wrong" about where the line was drawn, so for
>> netwo
On Wed, 12 Oct 2022, Andrey Kostin wrote:
Matthew Petach писал(а) 2022-10-11 20:33:
My point is that it's not a feature of BGP, it's a purely human
convention,
arrived at through the intersection of pain and laziness.
There's nothing inherently "right" or "wrong" about where the line was
Here is a reason you might want to keep that /24.
Suppose you are a small ISP and I am your customer.
I also have another larger provider.
That larger provider is also your provider.
I own a /21 and advertise it to my larger provider.
You get that /21 from my larger provider.
I advertise a /24 sub
David Conrad писал(а) 2022-10-12 11:39:
Andrey,
There was a period in the mid- to late-90s where some of RIRs
allocated longer than /24s, i.e., to match the amount of address space
justified by the requester, even if that meant (say) a /29. This
didn’t last very long as one of the (at the time)
On Wed, Oct 12, 2022 at 11:51:13AM -0400, Jon Lewis wrote:
[snip]
> And just for the record, despite having been bitten by it more than
> once, I'm very much in the camp of "if you advertise a covering
> aggregate, you're offering to get packets there, regardless of whether or
> not more specifi
On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 7:03 PM William Herrin wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 5:32 PM Matthew Petach
> wrote:
> [...]
> All TCP/IP routing is more-specific route first. That is the expected
> behavior. I honestly don't fathom your view that BGP is or should be
> different from that norm. If th
On Sun, Oct 16, 2022 at 1:01 AM Matthew Petach wrote:
> Their assumption that *everyone* would hear the more specifics,
> and thus the traffic would flow to the right island location was the
> "failure to understand BGP" that I was commenting on, and noting
> that while it is entirely correct to d
This situation isn’t helped by RIR policies that require you to announce the
aggregate in region even if the more specifics are scattered around the world.
The whole territorial exclusivity game played by some RIRs may well cause more
harm than good at this point.
Yes, I realize this is a reve
I already had this idea, I even implemented it in the desperate time of the
512K "bug".
And with that I can tell you:
Do not do it! You will be bothered!
But if you want to go this way, what I can recommend is to try not to put
routes in the FIB that match your Default.
Talking about having a def
s: athomp...@merlin.mb.ca
> -Original Message-
> From: NANOG On Behalf Of
> Stephane Bortzmeyer
> Sent: October 10, 2022 10:21 AM
> To: Edvinas Kairys
> Cc: NANOG Operators' Group
> Subject: Re: any dangers of filtering every /24 on full internet table to
> preser
On 10/20/22 17:50, Adam Thompson wrote:
Alternately, a valid technique is to have a default route AND a partial BGP
feed (a filtered full feed is by definition a partial feed). That helps
optimize outbound routing a little bit, you still get the advantage - mostly -
of multiple inbound carrie
nly)
https://www.merlin.mb.ca
Chat with me on Teams: athomp...@merlin.mb.ca
> -Original Message-
> From: NANOG On
> Behalf Of Brandon Martin
> Sent: October 21, 2022 4:30 PM
> To: nanog@nanog.org
> Subject: Re: any dangers of filtering every /24 on full internet
> table to preser
f Brandon Martin
> > Sent: October 21, 2022 4:30 PM
> > To: nanog@nanog.org
> > Subject: Re: any dangers of filtering every /24 on full internet
> > table to preserve FIB space ?
> >
> > On 10/20/22 17:50, Adam Thompson wrote:
> > > Alternately, a valid t
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