So let's say a cyber-attack originates from Chinese script kiddie.
Albania, Belgium, Bulgaria, Canada, Croatia, Czech Republic, Denmark,
Estonia, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Italy, Latvia,
Lithuania, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania,
Slovakia, Slovenia,
On 6/8/10 3:08 PM, Peter Boone wrote:
So let's say a cyber-attack originates from Chinese script kiddie.
Albania, Belgium, Bulgaria, Canada, Croatia, Czech Republic, Denmark,
Estonia, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Italy, Latvia,
Lithuania, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Norway, Poland,
On 2010-06-08 13:03, J. Oquendo wrote:
Jorge Amodio wrote:
All humor aside, I'm curious to know what can anyone truly do at the end
of the day if say a botnet was used to instigate a situation. Surely
someone would have to say something to the tune of better now than
never to implement BCP
On Jun 8, 2010, at 5:15 13PM, Brielle Bruns wrote:
On 6/8/10 3:08 PM, Peter Boone wrote:
So let's say a cyber-attack originates from Chinese script kiddie.
Albania, Belgium, Bulgaria, Canada, Croatia, Czech Republic, Denmark,
Estonia, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Italy,
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On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 1:30 PM, Brielle Bruns br...@2mbit.com wrote:
On 6/8/10 2:12 PM, Dave Rand wrote:
It's really way, way past time for us to actually deal with compromised
computers on our networks. Abuse desks need to have the power to
On 6/8/10 10:07 PM, J. Oquendo wrote:
So NANOGer's, what will be the game plan when something like this
happens, will you be joining NATO and pulling fiber. I wonder when all
types of warm-fuzzy filtering will be drafted into networking: Thou
shall re-read RFC4953 lest you want Predator strikes
On 6/9/10 12:50 AM, Marshall Eubanks wrote:
What any of this has to do with configuring routers escapes me.
I think Jay is worried about steps operators may have to take during
such an eventuality of an attack, not to mention the collateral damage
to the Internet infrastructure if DDoS is
To: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Re: Nato warns of strike against cyber attackers
On 6/9/10 12:50 AM, Marshall Eubanks wrote:
What any of this has to do with configuring routers escapes me.
I think Jay is worried about steps operators may have to take during
such an eventuality of an attack
Military reply doesn't have to mean bombs and guns. There is nothing
keeping it form mean offensive cyber counter attacks. This would mean
manage the battlefields :)
On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 7:46 PM, Gadi Evron g...@linuxbox.org wrote:
On 6/9/10 12:50 AM, Marshall Eubanks wrote:
What any of
So let's say a cyber-attack originates from Chinese script kiddie.
Albania, Belgium, Bulgaria, Canada, Croatia, Czech Republic, Denmark,
Estonia, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Italy, Latvia,
Lithuania, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania,
Slovakia,
[In the message entitled Re: Nato warns of strike against cyber attackers on
Jun 8, 14:30, Brielle Bruns writes:]
Legit customers get caught in the cross-fire, and they suffer - but at
the same time, those legit customers are the only ones that will be able
to force a change on said
wrote:
[In the message entitled Re: Nato warns of strike against cyber attackers
on Jun 8, 14:30, Brielle Bruns writes:]
Legit customers get caught in the cross-fire, and they suffer - but at
the same time, those legit customers are the only ones that will be able
to force a change
Changes the meaning of guns a blazing
Bryan
On Jun 8, 2010, at 8:31 PM, jim deleskie deles...@gmail.com wrote:
Military reply doesn't have to mean bombs and guns. There is nothing
keeping it form mean offensive cyber counter attacks. This would mean
manage the battlefields :)
On Tue,
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On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 5:45 PM, Dorn Hetzel dhet...@gmail.com wrote:
Perhaps a government operated black-hole list, run by same friendly folks
that run the no-fly list, with a law that says no US ISP can send packets
to or accept packets from any
On Tue, 08 Jun 2010 19:23:17 CDT, Jorge Amodio said:
So let's say a cyber-attack originates from Chinese script kiddie.
Albania, Belgium, Bulgaria, Canada, Croatia, Czech Republic, Denmark,
Estonia, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Italy, Latvia,
Lithuania, Luxembourg,
of strike against cyber attackers
On Tue, 08 Jun 2010 19:23:17 CDT, Jorge Amodio said:
So let's say a cyber-attack originates from Chinese script kiddie.
Albania, Belgium, Bulgaria, Canada, Croatia, Czech Republic,
Denmark, Estonia, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Italy,
Latvia
PM, d...@bungi.com (Dave Rand) wrote:
[In the message entitled Re: Nato warns of strike against cyber attackers
on Jun 8, 16:03, J. Oquendo writes:]
All humor aside, I'm curious to know what can anyone truly do at the end
of the day if say a botnet was used to instigate a situation. Surely
Lots of finger pointing.
Lots of discussion about who should pay, and so forth.
How about we just take responsibility for our own part. Don't malicious
traffic in or out.?
If it can't move, it will die.
--
Somebody should have said:
A democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have
[In the message entitled Re: Nato warns of strike against cyber attackers on
Jun 8, 13:33, Owen DeLong writes:]
I realize your fond of punishing all of us to subsidize the ignorant, =
but I would rather see those with compromised machines pay the bill for =
letting their machines get
Sent from my iToilet
why you will penalize with fees the end customer that may not know
that her system has been compromised because what she pays to Joe
Antivirus/Security/Firewall/Crapware is not effective against Billy
the nerd insecure code programmer ?
No doubt ISPs can do something, but
On Tue, 08 Jun 2010 22:01:35 CDT, Jorge Amodio said:
On the other hand think as the Internet being a vast ocean where the
bad guys keep dumping garbage, you can't control or filter the
currents that are constantly changing and you neither can inspect
every water molecule, then what do you do
Jorge Amodio wrote:
None of this needs to be done for free. There needs to be a security
fee charged _all_ customers, which would fund the abuse desk.
With more than 100,000,000 compromised computers out there, it's really
time for us to step up to the plate, and make this happen.
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On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 8:59 PM, JC Dill jcdill.li...@gmail.com wrote:
I'm still truly amazed that no one has sic'd a lawyer on Microsoft for
creating an attractive nuisance - an operating system that is too
easily hacked and used to attack
Dave Rand wrote:
I'm fond of getting the issues addressed by getting the ISPs to be involved
with the problem. If that means users get charged clean up fees instead
of a security fee, that's fine.
I urge all my competitors to do that.
The problem isn't that this is a bad idea, the problem
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On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 9:06 PM, JC Dill jcdill.li...@gmail.com wrote:
Dave Rand wrote:
I'm fond of getting the issues addressed by getting the ISPs to be
involved
with the problem. If that means users get charged clean up fees
instead
of a
Problem is there's no financial liability for producing massively exploitable
software.
No financial penalty for operating a compromised system.
No penalty for ignoring abuse complaints.
Etc.
Imagine how fast things would change in Redmond if Micr0$0ft had to pay the
cleanup costs for
On 6/8/2010 23:22, Paul Ferguson wrote:
Again, you can all continue to dance around and ignore the problem chance
the probability that the U.S. Government will step in and force you to do
it.
Pick your poison.
Or the world government will (note misspelled NATO in the Subject:).
--
On Jun 9, 2010, at 12:26 AM, Steven Bellovin wrote:
Problem is there's no financial liability for producing massively
exploitable software.
No financial penalty for operating a compromised system.
No penalty for ignoring abuse complaints.
Etc.
Imagine how fast things would change in
[In the message entitled Re: Nato warns of strike against cyber attackers on
Jun 9, 0:26, Steven Bellovin writes:]
A liability scheme, with penalties on users and vendors, is certainly =
worth considering. Such a scheme would also have side-effects -- think =
of the effect on open source
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On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 9:36 PM, Patrick W. Gilmore patr...@ianai.net
wrote:
But it is not -just- market share. There are a lot more Windows Mobile
compromises, viruses, etc., than iOS, Symbian, and RIM. I think
combined. Yet Windows Mobile has
On 09-Jun-2010, at 12:36 PM, Patrick W. Gilmore wrote:
On Jun 9, 2010, at 12:26 AM, Steven Bellovin wrote:
Problem is there's no financial liability for producing massively
exploitable software.
No financial penalty for operating a compromised system.
No penalty for ignoring abuse
At 15:07 08/06/2010 -0400, J. Oquendo wrote:
At http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/article7144856.ece
A report by Albright¹s group said that a cyber attack on the critical
infrastructure of a Nato country could equate to an armed attack,
justifying
retaliation.
Eneken Tikk, a
I'm all for that, but, point is that people who fail to meet that standard are
currently getting a free ride. IMHO, they should pay and they should have
the recourse of being (at least partially) reimbursed by their at-fault software
vendors for contributory negligence.
Owen
On Jun 8, 2010, at
On Jun 8, 2010, at 8:01 PM, Jorge Amodio wrote:
Sent from my iToilet
why you will penalize with fees the end customer that may not know
that her system has been compromised because what she pays to Joe
Antivirus/Security/Firewall/Crapware is not effective against Billy
the nerd insecure
On Jun 8, 2010, at 9:06 PM, JC Dill wrote:
Dave Rand wrote:
I'm fond of getting the issues addressed by getting the ISPs to be involved
with the problem. If that means users get charged clean up fees instead
of a security fee, that's fine.
I urge all my competitors to do that.
The
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On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 10:22 PM, Owen DeLong o...@delong.com wrote:
Please, be for real -- the criminals go after the entrenched majority.
If it were any other OS, the story would be the same.
If this were true, the criminals would be all over
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