Re: [Numpy-discussion] Proposal of timeline for dropping Python 2.7 support

On Fri, Nov 17, 2017, at 13:12, Chris Barker wrote: > On Fri, Nov 17, 2017 at 4:35 AM, Peter Cock > wrote:>> Since Konrad Hinsen no longer follows > the NumPy discussion list >> for lack of time, he has not posted here - but he has commented >> about this on Twitter and written up a good blog p

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Proposal of timeline for dropping Python 2.7 support

On Fri, Nov 17, 2017 at 4:35 AM, Peter Cock wrote: > Since Konrad Hinsen no longer follows the NumPy discussion list > for lack of time, he has not posted here - but he has commented > about this on Twitter and written up a good blog post: > > http://blog.khinsen.net/posts/2017/11/16/a-plea-for-

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Proposal of timeline for dropping Python 2.7 support

On Fri, Nov 17, 2017 at 5:35 AM, Peter Cock wrote: > Since Konrad Hinsen no longer follows the NumPy discussion list > for lack of time, he has not posted here - but he has commented > about this on Twitter and written up a good blog post: > > http://blog.khinsen.net/posts/2017/11/16/a-plea-for-

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Proposal of timeline for dropping Python 2.7 support

I've actually engaged with him on Twitter too but just to repeat one part here : scarce academic resources to maintain code is not an argument. Out of all places, it is academia that should have come up with or should have contributed greatly to open-source instead of paper-writing frenzy among eac

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Proposal of timeline for dropping Python 2.7 support

Since Konrad Hinsen no longer follows the NumPy discussion list for lack of time, he has not posted here - but he has commented about this on Twitter and written up a good blog post: http://blog.khinsen.net/posts/2017/11/16/a-plea-for-stability-in-the-scipy-ecosystem/ In a field where scientific

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Proposal of timeline for dropping Python 2.7 support

Apparently this is actually uncontroversial, the discussion's died down (see also the comments on Chuck's PR [1]), and anyone who wanted to object has had more than a week to do so, so... I guess we can say this is what's happening and start publicizing it to our users! A direct link to the render

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Proposal of timeline for dropping Python 2.7 support

On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 7:58 AM, Thomas Caswell wrote: > I am in very supportive of this plan. > > For Matplotlib the intention is to do a mpl2.2LTS early 2018 and a mpl3.0 > (no major API breaks other than dropping py2 support) summer 2018 with the > same meaning of LTS. > > I also had thought a

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Proposal of timeline for dropping Python 2.7 support

> Just to check that I am not misunderstanding: the version of pip should > not be more than a year old; "decades old" is just French hyperbola? Do I > understand right? Yes, sorry if you can't hear my french accent in writing, I can hear yours :-) There is also a "softer" requirement on setuptoo

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Proposal of timeline for dropping Python 2.7 support

On Nov 13, 2017 12:03, "Gael Varoquaux" wrote: On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 10:26:31AM -0800, Matthias Bussonnier wrote: > This behavior is "new" (Nov/Dec 2016). [snip] > It _does_ require to have a version of pip which is not decades old Just to check that I am not misunderstanding: the version of p

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Proposal of timeline for dropping Python 2.7 support

On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 10:26:31AM -0800, Matthias Bussonnier wrote: > This behavior is "new" (Nov/Dec 2016). [snip] > It _does_ require to have a version of pip which is not decades old Just to check that I am not misunderstanding: the version of pip should not be more than a year old; "decades o

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Proposal of timeline for dropping Python 2.7 support

I am in very supportive of this plan. For Matplotlib the intention is to do a mpl2.2LTS early 2018 and a mpl3.0 (no major API breaks other than dropping py2 support) summer 2018 with the same meaning of LTS. I also had thought about bumping the minimum numpy version of Matplotlib to the first py3

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Proposal of timeline for dropping Python 2.7 support

On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 10:31 AM, Stefan van der Walt wrote: > > Is this documented anywhere? I couldn't find it via Google, and suspect > it may be widely useful in the next few months. Everything you need to know is on the Python3Statement practicality page: http://www.python3statement.org/pr

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Proposal of timeline for dropping Python 2.7 support

On Mon, Nov 13, 2017, at 10:26, Matthias Bussonnier wrote: > Unless the sdist is tagged with require_python and users have > recent-enough pip. Is this documented anywhere? I couldn't find it via Google, and suspect it may be widely useful in the next few months. Stéfan _

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Proposal of timeline for dropping Python 2.7 support

> If a wheel is not available for the client platform, pip will try to install > the latest version of the source distribution (.tar.gz or .zip) which I think > is the cause of the problem here. Unless the sdist is tagged with require_python and users have recent-enough pip. Which is what was re

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Proposal of timeline for dropping Python 2.7 support

If a wheel is not available for the client platform, pip will try to install the latest version of the source distribution (.tar.gz or .zip) which I think is the cause of the problem here. -- Olivier ​ ___ NumPy-Discussion mailing list NumPy-Discussion@

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Proposal of timeline for dropping Python 2.7 support

> The trouble is PyPi doesn't allow multiple branches. So if you upload NumPy > 2.0 wheels, then you cannot turn around and upload 1.18.X bug-fix patches. > At least, this is my understanding of PyPi. That's perfectly feasible. We've been maintaining a 6.x (Python 3 only) and 5.x (Python2+3)

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Proposal of timeline for dropping Python 2.7 support

On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 7:47 AM, Matthias Bussonnier < bussonniermatth...@gmail.com> wrote: > > For this to be efficient, it should be done soon enough to allow > downstream projects to adapt their requirements.txt. > > Release managers: how much more effort would it be to upload current > numpy t

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Proposal of timeline for dropping Python 2.7 support

On Fri, Nov 10, 2017 at 2:03 PM, Robert McLeod wrote: > Pip repo names and actual module names don't have to be the same. One > potential work-around would be to make a 'numpylts' repo on PyPi which is > the 1.17 version with support for Python 2.7 and bug-fix releases as > required. This will

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Proposal of timeline for dropping Python 2.7 support

> For this to be efficient, it should be done soon enough to allow downstream > projects to adapt their requirements.txt. > Release managers: how much more effort would it be to upload current numpy to > both numpy and numpylts? I'm not quite sure I see the point. you would ask downstream to cha

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Proposal of timeline for dropping Python 2.7 support

On 10 November 2017 at 23:03, Robert McLeod wrote: > E.g. in `requirements.txt`: > > numpy;python_version>"3.0" > numpylts; python_version<"3.0" > > In both cases you still call `import numpy` in the code. > For this to be efficient, it should be done soon enough to allow downstream projects

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Proposal of timeline for dropping Python 2.7 support

On Nov 12, 2017 1:12 PM, "Todd" wrote: Might it make sense to do this in a synchronized manner with scipy? So both numpy and scipy drop support for python 2 on the first release after December 31 2018, and numpy's first python3-only release comes before (or simultaneously with) scipy's. Then sc

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Proposal of timeline for dropping Python 2.7 support

On Nov 9, 2017 20:52, "Nathaniel Smith" wrote: Fortunately we can wait until we're a bit closer before we have to make any final decision on the version numbering :-) Right now though it would be good to start communicating to users/downstreams about whatever our plans our though, so they can ma

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Proposal of timeline for dropping Python 2.7 support

On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 6:52 PM, Nathaniel Smith wrote: > Fortunately we can wait until we're a bit closer before we have to > make any final decision on the version numbering :-) > > Right now though it would be good to start communicating to > users/downstreams about whatever our plans our thoug

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Proposal of timeline for dropping Python 2.7 support

On Fri, Nov 10, 2017 at 2:52 PM, Nathaniel Smith wrote: > Fortunately we can wait until we're a bit closer before we have to > make any final decision on the version numbering :-) > > Right now though it would be good to start communicating to > users/downstreams about whatever our plans our thou

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Proposal of timeline for dropping Python 2.7 support

On Wed, Nov 8, 2017 at 2:50 PM, Matthew Brett wrote: > Hi, > > On Wed, Nov 8, 2017 at 7:08 PM, Julian Taylor > wrote: > > On 06.11.2017 11:10, Ralf Gommers wrote: > >> > >> > >> On Mon, Nov 6, 2017 at 7:25 AM, Charles R Harris > >> mailto:charlesr.har...@gmail.com>> wrote: > >> > >> Hi All,

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Proposal of timeline for dropping Python 2.7 support

'pip install ... will' to 'pip install ... should' especially for 2.7 users it's rarer to have an up to date enough pip (9+) to respect the requires_python metadata. A mention to the py3statement would be appreciated :-) especially if you decide to sign it. You might want to also be a bit more po

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Proposal of timeline for dropping Python 2.7 support

Fortunately we can wait until we're a bit closer before we have to make any final decision on the version numbering :-) Right now though it would be good to start communicating to users/downstreams about whatever our plans our though, so they can make plans. Here's a first attempt at some text we

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Proposal of timeline for dropping Python 2.7 support

In astropy we had a similar discussion about version numbers, and decided to make 2.0 the LTS that still supports python 2.7 and 3.0 the first that does not. If we're discussing jumping a major number, we could do the same for numpy. (Admittedly, it made a bit more sense with the numbering scheme

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Proposal of timeline for dropping Python 2.7 support

> On Nov 9, 2017, at 13:35, Charles R Harris wrote: > > One thing worth considering might be making the release that drops 2.7 NumPy > 2.0 just so that there is a clear break point. Then if someone wants to > continue the 1.x line of releases supporting 2.7 they can do so. ISTR that > git no

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Proposal of timeline for dropping Python 2.7 support

On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 11:24 AM, Matthias Bussonnier < bussonniermatth...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi all, > > Apologies if this mail appear out of thread I just subscribed to respond. > > > Yeah, agreed. I don't feel like this is incompatible with the spirit of > > python3statement.org, though looking

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Proposal of timeline for dropping Python 2.7 support

Hi all, Apologies if this mail appear out of thread I just subscribed to respond. > Yeah, agreed. I don't feel like this is incompatible with the spirit of > python3statement.org, though looking at the text I can see how it's not clear. > My guess is they'd be happy to adjust the text, especially

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Proposal of timeline for dropping Python 2.7 support

See Thomas's reply quoted below (it was rejected by the mailing list since he's not subscribed): On Nov 9, 2017 01:24, "Thomas Kluyver" wrote: On Thu, Nov 9, 2017, at 08:52 AM, Nathaniel Smith wrote: On Nov 8, 2017 23:59, "Ralf Gommers" wrote: Regarding http://www.python3statement.org/: I'd s

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Proposal of timeline for dropping Python 2.7 support

On 11/09/2017 12:15 AM, Nathaniel Smith wrote: On Nov 8, 2017 16:51, "Matthew Brett" > wrote: Hi, On Wed, Nov 8, 2017 at 7:08 PM, Julian Taylor mailto:jtaylor.deb...@googlemail.com>> wrote: > On 06.11.2017 11:10, Ralf Gommers wrote: >>

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Proposal of timeline for dropping Python 2.7 support

On Nov 8, 2017 23:59, "Ralf Gommers" wrote: Regarding http://www.python3statement.org/: I'd say that as long as there are people who want to spend their energy on the LTS release (contributors *and* enough maintainer power to review/merge/release), we should not actively prevent them from doing t

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Proposal of timeline for dropping Python 2.7 support

On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 12:15 PM, Nathaniel Smith wrote: > On Nov 8, 2017 16:51, "Matthew Brett" wrote: > > Hi, > > On Wed, Nov 8, 2017 at 7:08 PM, Julian Taylor > wrote: > > On 06.11.2017 11:10, Ralf Gommers wrote: > >> > >> > >> On Mon, Nov 6, 2017 at 7:25 AM, Charles R Harris > >> mailto:char

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Proposal of timeline for dropping Python 2.7 support

On Wed, Nov 8, 2017 at 10:17 PM, Bryan Van de ven wrote: > >> On Nov 8, 2017, at 10:50, Peter Cock wrote: >> >> NumPy (and to a lesser extent SciPy) is in a tough position being at the >> bottom of many scientific Python programming stacks. Whenever you >> drop Python 2 support is going to upset

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Proposal of timeline for dropping Python 2.7 support

On Nov 8, 2017 16:51, "Matthew Brett" wrote: Hi, On Wed, Nov 8, 2017 at 7:08 PM, Julian Taylor wrote: > On 06.11.2017 11:10, Ralf Gommers wrote: >> >> >> On Mon, Nov 6, 2017 at 7:25 AM, Charles R Harris >> mailto:charlesr.har...@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> Hi All, >> >> Thought I'd toss th

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Proposal of timeline for dropping Python 2.7 support

Hi, On Wed, Nov 8, 2017 at 7:08 PM, Julian Taylor wrote: > On 06.11.2017 11:10, Ralf Gommers wrote: >> >> >> On Mon, Nov 6, 2017 at 7:25 AM, Charles R Harris >> mailto:charlesr.har...@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> Hi All, >> >> Thought I'd toss this out there. I'm tending towards better sooner

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Proposal of timeline for dropping Python 2.7 support

Anaconda's compilers are for Linux (gcc 7.2) and Mac (llvm/clang 4.0.1) right now. We would like to have clang target all platforms, but that's a lot of development effort. We are also exploring ways of keeping package ecosystems in line, so that building and managing a self-consistent set of pyt

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Proposal of timeline for dropping Python 2.7 support

> On Nov 8, 2017, at 10:50, Peter Cock wrote: > > NumPy (and to a lesser extent SciPy) is in a tough position being at the > bottom of many scientific Python programming stacks. Whenever you > drop Python 2 support is going to upset someone. Existing versions of NumPy will still exist and conti

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Proposal of timeline for dropping Python 2.7 support

On Wed, Nov 8, 2017 at 11:08 AM, Julian Taylor < jtaylor.deb...@googlemail.com> wrote: > > Would dropping python2 support for windows earlier than the other > platforms a reasonable approach? > no. I'm not Windows fan myself, but it is a HUGE fraction of the userbase. -CHB -- Christopher Bar

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Proposal of timeline for dropping Python 2.7 support

On 06.11.2017 11:10, Ralf Gommers wrote: > > > On Mon, Nov 6, 2017 at 7:25 AM, Charles R Harris > mailto:charlesr.har...@gmail.com>> wrote: > > Hi All, > > Thought I'd toss this out there. I'm tending towards better sooner > than later in dropping Python 2.7 support as we are starti

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Proposal of timeline for dropping Python 2.7 support

On Wed, 2017-11-08 at 18:15 +0100, Ilhan Polat wrote: > I was about to send the same thing. I think this matter became a > vim/emacs issue and Py2 supporters won't take any arguments anymore. > But if Instagram can do it, it means that legacy code argument is a > matter of will but not a technicali

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Proposal of timeline for dropping Python 2.7 support

I was about to send the same thing. I think this matter became a vim/emacs issue and Py2 supporters won't take any arguments anymore. But if Instagram can do it, it means that legacy code argument is a matter of will but not a technicality. https://thenewstack.io/instagram-makes-smooth-move-python-

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Proposal of timeline for dropping Python 2.7 support

On Tue, Nov 7, 2017 at 11:40 PM, Nathaniel Smith wrote: > > > > Right now, the decision in front of us is what to tell people who ask about > numpy's py2 support plans, so that they can make their own plans. Given what > we know right now, I don't think we should promise to keep support past > 20

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Proposal of timeline for dropping Python 2.7 support

On Nov 7, 2017 2:15 PM, "Chris Barker" wrote: On Mon, Nov 6, 2017 at 6:14 PM, Charles R Harris wrote: > Also -- if py2.7 continues to see the use I expect it will well past when >>> pyton.org officially drops it, I wouldn't be surprised if a Python2.7 >>> Windows build based on a newer compiler

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Proposal of timeline for dropping Python 2.7 support

On Mon, Nov 6, 2017 at 6:14 PM, Charles R Harris wrote: > Also -- if py2.7 continues to see the use I expect it will well past when >>> pyton.org officially drops it, I wouldn't be surprised if a Python2.7 >>> Windows build based on a newer compiler would come along -- perhaps by >>> Anaconda or

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Proposal of timeline for dropping Python 2.7 support

On Mon, Nov 6, 2017 at 6:37 PM, David Cournapeau wrote: > > > On Tue, Nov 7, 2017 at 7:24 AM, Chris Barker > wrote: > >> On Sun, Nov 5, 2017 at 10:25 AM, Charles R Harris < >> charlesr.har...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >>> the timeline I've been playing with is to keep Python 2.7 support >>> throu

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Proposal of timeline for dropping Python 2.7 support

On Tue, Nov 7, 2017 at 7:24 AM, Chris Barker wrote: > On Sun, Nov 5, 2017 at 10:25 AM, Charles R Harris < > charlesr.har...@gmail.com> wrote: > > >> the timeline I've been playing with is to keep Python 2.7 support >> through 2018, which given our current pace, would be for NumPy 1.15 and >> 1.1

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Proposal of timeline for dropping Python 2.7 support

On Sun, Nov 5, 2017 at 10:25 AM, Charles R Harris wrote: > the timeline I've been playing with is to keep Python 2.7 support through > 2018, which given our current pace, would be for NumPy 1.15 and 1.16. After > that 1.16 would become a long term support release with backports of > critical bu

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Proposal of timeline for dropping Python 2.7 support

On Mon, Nov 6, 2017 at 7:25 AM, Charles R Harris wrote: > Hi All, > > Thought I'd toss this out there. I'm tending towards better sooner than > later in dropping Python 2.7 support as we are starting to run up against > places where we would like to use Python 3 features. That is particularly > t