At 12:25 AM 4/24/01 -0800, you wrote:
>do a star join on their tables it will snow cows.
>
Bwahh hahah! Thanks for the morning laugh. I've never heard that particular
expression before.
Dennis Taylor
Don't be fooled by old cliches - He who laughs last may have
Well, I'm an admitted purist too.
The dev team has done the datawarehouse first phase by
themselves ignoring my recommandations. Hey who am i
to tell how do things to a team 100% composed of one
of the biggest consulting firm in the world (cgey)
with no Oracle knowledge and very little DW knowled
(re: purists/normalization)
Another thing I have wondered about:
Why doesn't Oracle (or other RDBMS vendors) enforce normalization in
it's products?
Since they don't enforce normalization, does that mean it isn't
important? Also, I note that there is very little mention of
normalization in t
(continuing with 100% wild *ss speculation)
Tim,
I thought this might be of interest to the person that asked the
original question, so am replying via the list.
My "take" is that human nature does *not* automatically support an
organizational culture that values esoteric theories and/or
d
I'm an admitted purist...I look at denormalized and unnormalized as being the same.
I've been on projects that wanted to introduce denormalization because the developers
expected a performance issue. After I look at it and disagree, then the war begins.
On the other hand, on my latest proje
And I'd be curious to know why you are curious!
What I have gathered so far from the discussion is that normalization
zealotry, probably similar to other purist perspectives in life,
doesn't get any particularly huge respect in the "real world".
In other words, people that make business decision
On Monday 23 April 2001 11:15, Tim Sawmiller wrote:
> I'd be curious to see your definitions of "un-normalized" and
> "de-normalized"...
>
I'll take a quick stab at that.
Denormalized refers to a schema that began it's life in a normalized
state, and then thoughtful consideration was given to de
I'd be curious to see your definitions of "un-normalized" and "de-normalized"...
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 04/23/01 01:55PM >>>
On 20 Apr 2001, at 19:15, Jared Still wrote:
Date sent: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 19:15:20 -0800
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL
On Monday 23 April 2001 09:53, Eric D. Pierce wrote:
>
> I guess I've been under the impression that a good design
> process would be done with proper methods, including having
> (legitimately tested) performance metrics.
>
> Are you saying that is an overly idealistic approach for most
> "real wo
Well, in reality, there is only one way. You must shamelessly advertise
yourself and invent some legends about yourself ("I saved Priceline...").
-Original Message-
Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 10:50 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
installations?
I've thought that it woul
On 20 Apr 2001, at 19:15, Jared Still wrote:
Date sent: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 19:15:20 -0800
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
> > Well, why would you *not* want to denormalize during design? It seems
> > to me that (theoretically) ***i
; > of my employer or the organization through which the internet was accessed.
> >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Seley, Linda [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 12:30 AM
> > > To: Multiple recipients o
> > I guess I'm saying that I can't recall starting with a completely
> > normalized database ( just 3rd normal form here ) and then denormalize if
> > we found it necessary for some reason.
> >
> > We've usually have had some denormalization in as soon as we started
> > doing physical modeling.
> -Original Message-
> > From: Seley, Linda [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 12:30 AM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > Subject:RE: Where can I find real-life-examples about ORACLE
> > installation
I've thought that it would be interesting and lucrative work offering
third party apps companies my services in modeling and designing
databases.
Problem is, they don't understand how bad they truly are. Anyone
have ideas on selling ignorant ( no disrespect intended ) folks on
why they need th
On 19 Apr 2001, at 17:50, Jared Still wrote:
Date sent: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 17:50:27 -0800
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
...
> In my experience, DBA's are scum and developers lobby the managers
> with tales of how terrible life will
OH crappers, we just put Remedy in here. They are running it in SQL Server
though. They just let me have a second DBA. Maybe I will give him
responsibility
over that one:-)
-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 6:50 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
installations?
William,
Have you tried to figure out Portal? Next to this beast, Remedy looks
pretty good.
David A. Barbour
Oracle DBA
"Thater, William" wrote:
>
> On Thu, 19 Apr 2001,Jared Still scribbled on the wall in glitter crayon:
>
> ->If you're familiar with the Help Desk software 'Remedy', you wil
osition
of my employer or the organization through which the internet was accessed.
> -Original Message-
> From: Seley, Linda [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 12:30 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: RE: Where can I find
Hi,
I actually had to write some Perl scripts to transfer user data from a
billing software's DB to Remedy ... and I was eventually slightly
surprised that the Remedy folks were really able to deliver a ER model
even worse then the billing software's model. But they did a great job
in accomplishi
On Thu, 19 Apr 2001,Jared Still scribbled on the wall in glitter crayon:
->If you're familiar with the Help Desk software 'Remedy', you will know that
->it has one of the worst schemas ever designed by man or beast. If you
->haven't seen it, you would have a hard time imagining it. Yes, worse t
With your 'free time' now would be a good time to work on putting Remedy out
of business. ;-) It wouldn't be too hard and you'd be the hero of
countless DBAs!
Linda
(who is very grateful never to have had to deal with AR but sure heard some
ugly stories!)
-Original Message-
Sent: Thurs
Comments embedded
On Thursday 19 April 2001 15:31, Eric D. Pierce wrote:
...
> As far as I know, structured denormalization is considered to be a
> method for modification of a normalized design. There should be
> disipline/method/rules that try to get the best performance increase
> in a trade-
Jared,
I agree completely with your disagreement, except that I don't agree
that you should have disagreed since we actually agree. You did say
it better, though. :)
unnormalized != denormalized
(etc.)
As far as I know, structured denormalization is considered to be a
method for modificatio
> In general, be skeptical of doctrinaire statements about needing
> "pure" normalized designs. Instead look into "structured
> denormalization" methods, especially if performance will be an issue.
I'll disagree with that, vehemently even. :)
Build a normalized design, denormalize if you find
http://www.cuore.es
> On 19 Apr 2001, at 0:00, Beatriz Martinez wrote:
--
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
--
Author: Eric D. Pierce
INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051
San Diego, California-- Publ
Bon dia,
Keep in mind the 70% industry failure rate, and decide if you need to
spend money on outside experts. If you do decide to get outside help,
make sure it is good (sensa pallassos).
There are probably a lot of resources available about database design
(normalization/etc.) Try the followin
Beatriz,
What about starting by getting the "ORACLE 8i Starter Kit book" that should
get you off the ground.
Good Luck !
Tavo
Beatriz Martinez wrote:
> Hello list,
> We are beginning a proyect in ORACLE, and I wonder myself if there is
> any place where I could find any real implementation, o
Hi,
If nobody in your team knows Oracle then you really
should hire a good Oracle consultant to help you start
in the good direction.
On the bad side, if nobody in your team knows Oracle
then it is not obvious to hire a good consultant.
Trust me, it won't be wasted money.
--- Beatriz Martin
Hello list,
We are beginning a proyect in ORACLE, and I wonder myself if there is
any place where I could find any real implementation, or any experience
(good or horrible.) for orienting correctly us.
I mean, which different databases should we create, which
restrictions... Something related
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