Frances to Jean-Marc...
This muse is somewhat off topic, but may be related to the subject.
You recently stated here that Peirce wrote some thirds and seconds are
degenerate, which means that they have no real existence. The
statement that degenerate categories have no real existence is
intriguing
Frances to Joe and others...
There is a tendency for me to equate "immediate" or "immediacy" with
all metaphysical quiddities and representamens that are not signs, as
well as with all categorical primaries and firstnesses or firsts and
qualities that exist to sense, but especially to align them w
Frances to Joe and Jim and others...
No sources could be found by me in Peirce or on Peirce for the terms
"immediate representamen" and "immediate sign" but my search
continues. The terms "Immediate Representations" and "Mediate
Representations" found in Peirce however do raise the further issue o
Frances to Joseph and listers...
The decagon table does not seem to deal with signs as representamens
explicitly. The decagon of course does deal with immediate objects
and dynamic objects and one immediate interpretant. If it did deal
with representamens, it is reasonable to me that such represen
Frances to Ben and others...
In the decadic table or model, the ten classes of signs seem to deal
with immediate objects, and dynamic objects, and sparse selections of
immediate and dynamic and final interpretants. The decagon does not
seem to deal with immediate representamens whatsoever, except
Title: Message
Frances on Gilles to listers...
These semiotic diagrams in the posted message and in the linked website are
a welcome addition to the trichotomic topic, and will surely be the cause of
much more reflection.
The positing of "réel" for the "real" object is assumed here an
a
Frances to listers...
As posited by Peirce under speculative grammatics, it is clear enough
to me that the classes of immediate object signs are qualisigns and
sinsigns and legisigns, and that the classes of dynamic object signs
are icons and indexes and symbols, and that the various interpretant
Frances to listers...
The broad theme of this topic and its leading threads is a subject
that remains intriguingly foggy for me. At the core of my haze perhaps
is the forced application of categorics upon semiotics, yet with
synechastics lurking in the wings. In my attempt to wrestle with the
many
Frances to Wilfred Berendsen...
These signs are of recurring interest to me also, and several past
messages dealing with them by experts are in the list archive. Any
replies to you will hence be followed with enthusiasm. My present
access to the writings of Peirce is limited, but other writers who
Frances to Claudio...
On the relatedness of Peirce to Althusser and Lacan, with the
categorization of Peirce as a firstness with say logic and semiotics
and philosophy, and of Althusser as a secondness with say behavior and
habit and conduct and social practice, and of Lacan as a thirdness
with ps
Frances to Claudio...
My thought that a constructed building to be architectural in the
broadest sense need not be inhabited and resided in or even occupied
as a dwelling, does not exclude the necessity that the designed
building be utilized or implemented in some manner. It would be my
contention
Frances to Claudio and others...
Tools as instruments and implements are traditionally of interest to
scholars studying in the fields of anthropology and ethnology, but
also cross over to ethology and epistemology.
Tools studied as representative signs are perhaps intrinsically a kind
of existent
Frances to Claudio...
In regard to the two diagrams you posited earlier, their end use would
presumably be as conceptual tools used mainly by architectural
designers in the practice of their craft.
The first design diagram you posit is:
1ness - Math- geom./design - Aes
Frances to Claudio...
Thanks for your comments and directions, all of which will be
considered in my own pursuit of showing semiotics in suitable graphic
forms to different audiences, and the nonagon is certainly one of
those forms.
On the terms "trident" and "tern" in some of my messages, they a
Frances to Claudio and others...
Your assumptions are that design is mainly an applied technical
discipline that produces industrial products, and thus is not mainly
an art or science; that it is best structured and understood in a
tridential form as a sign; that the logical trident is difficult f
Frances to Ben...
Thanks for you comments on my pragmatist interpretations and
speculations. There are several motives driving me to muse on
pragmatism as both an idealist and realist thrust. The main muse is to
explore whether the world of phenomena can be expanded and bracketed
with nomena or no
Frances to Claudio and listers...
Forgive me because this reply is a little late and a little long. It
deals mainly with color as a sign and this being a good example of
semiotics in application to the field of visible design.
The attempt here is to explore the use of diagrams as a good means to
Frances to Thomas and Ben...
Forgive me for being a little late in this response to your earlier
remarks, and also allow me to speculate on defending the position of
realist pragmatism in regard to its phenomenal categories.
>From the beginning, each infinite continuum such as perpetual time or
e
Frances to Claudio and Ben and others...
In regard to its phenomenal categorization, it seems that if the
experience as a "recognizant" or "agnoscent" is to be collateral to
semiotic grammatics, but not to semiotics as a whole, and since
semiotics in part or whole must remain tridential and tricho
Frances to Jim...
It might be useful here to differentiate between the progressive
advance of a sign in its always being a combination of icons and
indexes and symbols to some degree, and in its being mainly of one
kind of sign in any given situation as dominantly an icon or index or
symbol, and i
Frances to Jim and others...
This is perhaps a related comment to your request for quoted passages.
In his 1968 book "The Origins of Pragmatism" the author A.J. Ayer
talks at some length about Peircean signs and especially indexes with
what appears to be some keen insights.
There is mention in Pe
Frances to Ben and listers...
There has been a lot of clarifying here on this topical subject. It
does not seem to me however that there is yet any agreement on whether
the collateral experience and even in the form of a recognizant is
indeed part of semiosis and thus a trichotomic semiosis. In an
Frances to listers...
The arbitrary use of my concocted term "signer" in messages has
generated some interest. It is used merely to identify the thing that
structures or employs an object as a sign. The search for some proper
term in the widest sense had caused me some irritating frustration.
When
Frances to Joseph and listers...
If "representamens" and "signs" are held to be separate and distinct,
this will certainly make the world more complex and its field of
logical study more complicated, and perhaps needlessly so. For now, my
task is to carefully read all the passages from the Peircea
Frances to Theresa...
Thanks for your kind comments and leads. They will help me in my
reading of the available Peircean passages on the matter. For now, we
might agree to disagree. The dispute may eventually boil down to just
how broad pragmatism and semiotics should hold representamens and
signs
Frances to Theresa...
You partly wrote that for Peirce the word "representamen" is more a
technical term than the word "sign" at least within logical contexts.
One thorn here is whether "signs" in some extended nonlogical sense
are to be admitted or allowed in the nonhuman biotic arena, or even i
Gary...
Thanks for your search and post.
As you implied, the distinction attempted to be made by me is in deed
the difference between "representamens" that are broader and prior to
all else in the world, including existent objects and "signs" and
semiosis, and that are independent of thought and m
Frances to Joseph Ransdell and listers...
You replied partly in effect that the distinction between "sign" and
"representamen" for Peirce in his writings is indifferent. You stated
that the word "representamen" was likely introduced by Peirce as the
name for his refined conception of the word "sig
Frances to Ben and others...
Recognizants you define as the experiences in mind of objects acting
as signs. If the experiential recognition however is itself not acting
as a sign or as part of a sign situation, then it is for the signer
only collateral to semiosis. This hence implies that not all
Frances to Ben and Claudio and others:
Forgive the interjection, but here are some interpretations of mine on
Peircean ideas that may be related to your present concerns in signs
and my current interests in designs. Let me state my speculations and
invite corrections to them.
The initial grammati
Frances to Thomas and listers...
There may for many persons be some things that are outside the scope
and venue of objective semiotics or logic and not be prone as objects
of study to the laws of scientific belief, such as articles of
religious faith for example, but not for Peirce and his brand o
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