In theoretical terms you both seem to be saying that the concept of credits
and making charges can work progressively but they should be related to new
capitalist activity, not virgin land that has been capitalised, ie seen as
a privately owned resource, and an asset equivalent of capital.
It
G'day all,
Quoth the gratifyingly interested Norman:
" ... but doesn't the capitalist-entrepreneur deserve SOME remunerative
"wage" for the effort, organizational talent, time, worry and risk he/she
takes to establish the business that benefits the workers who are employed
and society which
CONSTANT AND VARIABLE CAPITAL IN MARX
In chapter 8 of "Capital," Marx distinguishes between constant
and variable capital:
"That part of capital," he says, "which is turned into
a means of production, i.e. the raw material, the auxiliary
material and their instruments of labour,
MARX'S 'PASS-THROUGH' OF CONSTANT CAPITAL
Marx's labor theory of value can be understood either positively
or negatively. Positively, it entails the proposition that
"Human labor, whether directly exercised or stored in
such products as tools, machinery, or domesticated animals,
represents the
G'day Doug,
Louis Proyect wrote:
Actually most people value peace and health more than shopping at the
malls
and cancer. That is the reason drug use and prozac is so widespread in the
USA. Beneath the "good life" there is a profound feeling of despair.
...but which can't get articulated as
Hi Economist, and Low Economists,
I want to extend my remarks on the metaphor Yoshie used to observe how I
understand brain work goes on. This seems to me to be relevant to
understanding how to organize in the left. I use the term networked to
indicate aspects of the social organization.
" ... but doesn't the capitalist-entrepreneur deserve SOME remunerative
"wage" for the effort, organizational talent, time, worry and risk he/she
takes to establish the business that benefits the workers who are employed
and society which gets to use the products of the business? why assume
There is an unclarity here that I should remove: when I said that workers
could perform the positive functions that capitalsits perform (when
capitalist perform any socially useful functions) wiuthout owning the means
of production, I meant, without owning them individually rather than
From William Morris "How We Live and How We Might Live "
How do we live, then, under our present system? Let us look at it a little.
And first, please to understand that our present system of Society is based
on a state of perpetual war. Do any of you think that this is as it should
be? I know
G'day Paul,
About Jordan Wheeler's column, "Until environment affects profits, it won't
be fixed" ...
Beaut stuff, but problematic at a very profound level, I reckon. I think
people of Marxian bent inherit from Das Kapital and its clerics an
unconsciously impotent view of the world, by which I
[was: Re: [PEN-L:5045] Re: Ohmans on 'marginal' constant capital #1]
Justin writes:
Norman: this is a fundamental question [the remuneration of capitalist for
their alleged services], very important, the root of whether to be a
socialist or not. Why don't you look at the first chapter of David
Mike Lebowitz's book, BEYOND CAPITAL, deals with these issues of Marx's
deterministic vision. In a nutshell, Marx deliberately minimized the role
of the self-organization working class in CAPITAL, in order to focus on the
contradictory dynamics of capital, which create conditions in which
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 11/28/00 11:38AM
Justin, what's wrong with Marxian jargon? should we reject all Marxian
jargon and stick to the currently-dominant jargons ("entrepreneurial,"
etc.)? should we also reject philosophical or legal jargon, or is your ire
simply aimed at that of Marx?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 11/28/00 11:48AM
Mike Lebowitz's book, BEYOND CAPITAL, deals with these issues of Marx's
deterministic vision. In a nutshell, Marx deliberately minimized the role
of the self-organization working class in CAPITAL, in order to focus on the
contradictory dynamics of
Jim Devine wrote:
Mike Lebowitz's book, BEYOND CAPITAL, deals with these issues of Marx's
deterministic vision.
While they have somewhat different agendas, and clash on some issues,
Wood, Foster, and Harvey are all very good on the mixture of deterministic
and non-deterministic elements in
Peter,
Thanks for the reference.
There is nothing stopping
a firm that owns the right to emit a certain amount of a
given pollutant to emit less. But it cannot emit more.
Ceiling implies a maximum above which one cannot
go. A floor is a minimum below which one cannot go.
Tradeable
Carroll,
Another way to put this is that Gore paid for
Clinton's having done the right thing vis a vis
Elian, despite Gore's own pathetic pander.
Barkley Rosser
-Original Message-
From: Carrol Cox [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED];
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL
I said:
(though David does not, you will be
happy
to hear, use any Marxist jargon).
Jim asks:
Justin, what's wrong with Marxian jargon? should we reject all Marxian
jargon and stick to the currently-dominant jargons ("entrepreneurial,"
etc.)? should we also reject philosophical or legal
With Homeless Numbers Rising, Japan Takes Action
By Doug Struck
Washington Post Foreign Service
Tuesday, November 28, 2000; 11:55 AM
TOKYO, Nov. 28 - The Japanese government, recognizing that a decade-long
economic slump has created a poor underclass, is moving to subsidize
shelters
Doug,
This is one reason why I am in favor of various
"flexible mechanisms" including a reasonably
structured market mechanism. This is indeed a
global problem and the issue is getting global
emissions down. Therefore I have no problem
with, for example, the US paying other countries
to
Paul,
Besides some companies like DuPont that figure
they can make money in the anti-pollution biz, one
major industry that is really pushing doing something
about global warming is the insurance industry. They
are scared blankety blank about the impact on properties
due to rising ocean
"J. Barkley Rosser, Jr." wrote:
Peter,
Thanks for the reference.
There is nothing stopping
a firm that owns the right to emit a certain amount of a
given pollutant to emit less.
No, but under a tradeable system the underpolluting firm sells its excess to
another firm that
From an offlist discussion with Lou Proyect
I would say that the big opening for Marxism here,
aside from the general critique of profit-oriented
firms driving things, is for how one determines
the overall level of emissions. Although it was
done through an international negotiation, good
- Original Message -
From: "Justin Schwartz" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Jim asks:
Justin, what's wrong with Marxian jargon? should we reject all Marxian
jargon and stick to the currently-dominant jargons ("entrepreneurial,"
etc.)? should we also reject philosophical or legal jargon, or is your ire
Chris,
I'm not sure what the issue is here. I think
the issue is reducing aggregate global emissions.
I think that net changes in carbon sinks, including
their removal, should be counted. I am also willing
to see rich countries pay poor countries to reduce
emissions. Frankly, I don't
BLS DAILY REPORT, MONDAY, NOVEMBER 27, 2000:
A new study of Internet use by job seekers shows that in 1998, about 15
percent of all unemployed people actively looking for new jobs turned to
various World Wide Web sites in conducting their search. About 7 percent
of employed persons had
Kerkorian sues DaimlerChrysler for $9 billion
Busting up company unlikely
By Bill Vlasic, and Mark Truby / The Detroit News
DETROIT -- Can Kirk Kerkorian break up the biggest deal in auto history?
Not likely, say legal experts and analysts who reacted Monday to the billionaire
Here are the results of the Canadian Federal election yesterday:
Liberals 173
Alliance 66
Bloc Quebecois 37
Conservatives 12
New Democratic Party 13.
The Liberals gained 18 seats, the Alliance 8. The Bloc have 7 fewer seats.
The Conservatives have almost half as many as before, and the
Peter,
I think this is sort of a sideshow, but
I still do not follow (or accept) your argument.
The "excess" that a company sells is the amount
that it is (or plans to be actually) below its
allowable amount. Once it sells that it cannot
go above its now lower allowable amount.
Certainly
At 07:00 PM 11/28/00 +, you wrote:
If you can say what you mean in plain English prose, why not do so?
such artifices would be nugatory if performed by the current author.
(actually, that's not jargon at all. But it's academic style blather.)
Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Without implying any crass parliamentarism or tailism behind any political
party, what is good and what is problematic about these results?
(I mean in terms of things like shifting the terrain of struggle onto more
progressive issues, making it easier for the majority of working people to
My hunch is that no one else on pen-l cares about this other than you or I,
Barkley. We can take it up over a drink in New Orleans. Enough drinks and I'm
sure you'll see it my way.
Peter
"J. Barkley Rosser, Jr." wrote:
Peter,
I think this is sort of a sideshow, but
I still do not
One or two should do it.
mbs
My hunch is that no one else on pen-l cares about this other than you or I,
Barkley. We can take it up over a drink in New Orleans. Enough drinks and
I'm sure you'll see it my way.
Peter
Jr.
Peter,
Thanks for the reference.
There is nothing stopping
a firm that owns the right to emit a certain amount of a
given pollutant to emit less. But it cannot emit more.
Ceiling implies a maximum above which one cannot
go. A floor is a minimum below which one cannot go.
The New York Times
November 28, 2000, Tuesday, Late Edition - Final
SECTION: Section A; Page 1; Column 2; Metropolitan Desk
HEADLINE: RACIAL PROFILING WAS THE ROUTINE, NEW JERSEY FINDS
BYLINE: By DAVID KOCIENIEWSKI and ROBERT HANLEY
DATELINE: TRENTON, Nov. 27
At least 8 of every 10 automobile
Lisa Ian Murray wrote:
What if, once a firm lowers it's "share" of the pollutant and then sells it
off to the state --allow the state to be a buyer -- rather than another
firm, the size of the pieces [number of credits available to buy and sell]
of the ceiling are lowered thus raising the
The center of the scan is to go to a failed Ukranian or Russian business, which
used to burn coal and buy their pollution rights. Or claim that a generator
that uses natural gas is reducing CO2 by not using coal.
Lisa Ian Murray wrote:
Jr.
Peter,
Thanks for the reference.
I spoke on a less abstract level. I do not recall many people referring
to Marxist categories in their questions.
charlie wrote:
People do have theories of the economy that guide their
understanding, although they might not be highly conscious of the
theory. A couple of weeks ago I spoke at
PD
The problem is that it transfers to the state the cost of
reducing the target.
At the margin, this is the same as the sort of "takings"
compensation the Right
demands and was passed by initiative in Oregon this fall. It is
as if polluters
had the right to pollute and we, the polluted,
http://www.unionrecord.com/metro/display.php?ID=325
Metro Seattle 2000-11-28
UW teaching assistants plan to strike Monday
By Ruth Schubert
Seattle Union Record
Hundreds of teaching assistants at the University of Washington plan to go
on strike Monday morning over the administrations refusal
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 17:53:19 +1300
From: Philip Ferguson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: 'Free' East Timor
The following article appeared in the Australian magazine 'Socialist
Alternative' #45, September 2000.
John Howard and the media haven't let up about how wonderfully East Timor
is
--- Forwarded message follows ---
Date sent: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 10:32:34 -0800
To: (Recipient list suppressed)
From: Sid Shniad [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:Kostunica blames West for fighting - The Daily Telegraph
H. Will
What is good is that the Alliance did not get in. They are quite right wing.
Some of their candidates were racist. They are terrible on aboriginal
issues. They want a two tier health system though they claim otherwise. They
are right-wing populist..They are against the Liberals farly stringent
Chris Niles wrote:
many writers and activist see the white race as a biologically empty
and socially destructive but hesitate to become anti-white for fear
of social alienation, so they settle for "anti-racism."
"White people have not always been 'white,' nor will they always be
'white.' It
Gordon Fitch wrote:
You can see where I would agree with Yoshie that racist
practice -- in the case of the U.S., the creation of
Whiteness -- was the result of police and judicial action.
However, there are also private enforcers besides the
police -- employers, bankers, landlords, local
'It was never a black and white affair'
The Tory: Alfred Sherman
Jonathan Glancey
The Guardian
Friday November 10, 2000
What happened in 1453?" The fall of Constantinople? "Exactly."
Having assured himself that a Guardian journalist has some
vague knowledge of history, Sir Alfred Sherman
Justin writes:
Jim says:
Doesn't this appeal to renounce whiteness succumb to precisely those
errors that Engels describes in Utopian and Scientific Socialism: namely
that it is an appeal to moral action without identifying the material
foundations for such an action?
What does this
HELP STOP UNIONBUSTING AT AMAZON.COM!!!
Amazon.com has mounted a major antiunion campaign against workers seeking to
exercise their right to unionize, holding captive audience meetings,
pressuring individual employees and mounting libelous attacks on unions in
general.
Tell this anti-union
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