Hi there,
I think Connie's answer is well put. I just need to make a note to clarify
a point. Quoting Behdad Esfahbod:
> I guess I did my part on showing the community, including Dr
> Pedram Safari, that the claim by Masoud Hashemi regarding
> authoring the dictionary which is apparently Aryanpou
On Thu, 3 Jun 2004, Pedram Safari wrote:
> I do not know about pronunciation, but the dictionary at
> http://www.math.columbia.edu/~safari/dictionary/
> (which was discussed above) is transliteration-based (using the so-called
> "mikhi" alphabet, available on the right side of the page), if that i
[snip]
> I'm sure this dictionary must have been funded by the Iranian
> government and no profits expected. I'm shocked to see that less than
> a dozen US universities have purchased it. I should think the author
> and publisher would be very happy to see it put online and all the
> efforts go to
Again, the problem is not and never has been the technical part,
but the data. In short:
* Finding a good source.
* Getting permission for online publication.
* Get it typed.
* Find proof-readers.
And then different presentations (web, CD, ...) is just a matter
of an afternoon...
On F
On Fri, 2004-06-04 at 07:46, C Bobroff wrote:
> Now,I wonder if some of you who are so experienced technically could do
> another dictionary project? At least as far as getting the data up in a
> legal way and then others could make the interface according to the needs
> of the target audience and
On Fri, 4 Jun 2004, Ehsan Akhgari wrote:
> I volunteer to implement a web interface for the dictionary,
Excellent!
You'll have to make it so that whether the user types in bi[ZWNJ]kaar,
bikaar, or bi kaar, the word will be found!
> but I think we'll need other
> people's help as well, because I
On Fri, 4 Jun 2004, Behdad Esfahbod wrote:
> * Finding a good source.
I think we all agree the Sukhan dictionary is going to waste in print
form. It is as if meant for this project! (However, I'm open to other
suggestions, just that if the dictionary is better, the owner may have
commercial plan
On Sat, 5 Jun 2004, Roozbeh Pournader wrote:
> There are many claims that this doesn't add anything to the Mo'in
> Persian dictionary,
How is that possible when it's physically twice as big?
And now Pedram informs us it has a different approach, namely
*definitions* rather than *synonyms*.
> and
Hi there,
Sokhan's dictionary is a first of its kind in Persian, since it gives the
"definitions" of the words, rather than "synonyms", which earlier works
did. So, despite its deficiencies, I think it is a useful starting point.
I understand Connie's point about the absence of vowels, etc., and
On Sat, 2004-06-05 at 20:41, Pedram Safari wrote:
> The problem with encoding Persian into computer is rather fundamental
> though, as there is no standard yet, not even for use in every-day life,
You raise a valid point, but please note that this is not about
encoding, but about *orthography*. Ev
On Sun, 2004-06-06 at 09:59, C Bobroff wrote:
> I think we all agree the Sukhan dictionary is going to waste in print
> form.
Well, as I mentioned already, there are people who believe it is a
complete waste by itself, not only in print form ;)
> > * Get it typed.
> Can I not assume it was orig
On Sun, 2004-06-06 at 10:04, C Bobroff wrote:
> On Sat, 5 Jun 2004, Roozbeh Pournader wrote:
>
> > There are many claims that this doesn't add anything to the Mo'in
> > Persian dictionary,
> How is that possible when it's physically twice as big?
Well, I was not talking literally. "Doesn't add *m
On Sun, 6 Jun 2004, Roozbeh Pournader wrote:
> MS Word?!! You really believe a professional publisher can prepare
> Persian print quality books in MS Word?!
I just thought the typist had used MS Word, then exported to Excel and
then to some publishing program. That was in response to Behdad
menti
On Sun, 6 Jun 2004, Roozbeh Pournader wrote:
> new parts are not comparable in quality to Moin's work, with wrong
> etymologies, bad definitions, etc.
That would be a problem. However, the bad entries can be edited out as
they are discovered.
> I don't agree. I believe the publisher has long tim
On Mon, 2004-06-07 at 08:20, C Bobroff wrote:
> I just thought the typist had used MS Word, then exported to Excel and
> then to some publishing program.
I'm sure both MS Word and MS Excel would crash under the weight of so
much text.
roozbeh
___
Pers
On Mon, 2004-06-07 at 08:26, C Bobroff wrote:
> That would be a problem. However, the bad entries can be edited out as
> they are discovered.
Who is to decide about what is bad? Are we professional linguists or
dictionary writers?
roozbeh
___
PersianC
> On Mon, 2004-06-07 at 08:20, C Bobroff wrote:
> > I just thought the typist had used MS Word, then exported to Excel and
> > then to some publishing program.
>
> I'm sure both MS Word and MS Excel would crash under the weight of so
> much text.
>
Who said they didn't break it up into smaller fil
On Mon, 7 Jun 2004, Roozbeh Pournader wrote:
> Who is to decide about what is bad? Are we professional linguists or
> dictionary writers?
We can we directed by others to edit. I'm just saying the online
version has this potential, unlike the printed version.
-Connie
_
I know of a friend, Mr. Yusef Amiri, who with Mr. Rohani Rankuhi (long
time DB expert and a professor at Shahid Beheshti/Melli University)
wrote two books, all in MS Word, chapter by chapter.
One of the books was on C++, the other one (IIRC) was on OO design or
something like it.
Yeah, that and
On Mon, 2004-06-07 at 18:55, C Bobroff wrote:
> Who said they didn't break it up into smaller files?
And managed all the numbering and sorting and all that by hand?
roozbeh
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On Mon, 2004-06-07 at 19:24, Masoud Sharbiani wrote:
> Yeah, that and the fact that you really should have TONS of memory if
> you want to have it all in one file, plus a dual processor (2000+ Mhz)
> machine ;-)
And even then, the quality will be incomparable with something typeset
with, say, Te
On Mon, 7 Jun 2004, Roozbeh Pournader wrote:
> And managed all the numbering and sorting and all that by hand?
They would have done that BEFORE exporting to their publishing software.
Now, do you have any more questions before [hopefully] heading off to bed?
-Connie
Roozbeh,
I bet you've never used MSFT word, have you? I had to use it for the
reports/thesis I did at Sharif (circa 1997-8). There is this feature
called 'Master Document' that is basically a binder for all kinds of
word files, and can handle the chapter/page numbering and such. (I am
talking a
It's a well known fact that MS Word is mainly for office work. Short
documents and presentations. Professional writers seldom use MS Office
for large documents like books. This WP is known to crash when doing
things like numbering and sorting on large documents. No writer can
afford such disast
On Mon, 2004-06-07 at 21:20, C Bobroff wrote:
> Now, do you have any more questions before [hopefully] heading off to bed?
OK, my mom just called. She was a little upset. ;-)
BTW, wait for the news from the next cool thing, called "tarh-e jaame'-e
gostaresh-e kaarbari-e zabaan-e faarsi". The guys
On Mon, 2004-06-07 at 21:43, Masoud Sharbiani wrote:
> I bet you've never used MSFT word, have you? I had to use it for the
> reports/thesis I did at Sharif (circa 1997-8). There is this feature
> called 'Master Document' that is basically a binder for all kinds of
> word files, and can handle t
On Mon, 7 Jun 2004, Roozbeh Pournader wrote:
> And guess what? All the output will be Open Source!
>
> Keep a look here for saner announcements. I need to rush home.
Hmmm, this sounds like a case of advanced delirium.
Tell Mom, no less than 48 hours of deep REM sleep will be required to
restor
On Mon, 2004-06-07 at 21:41, Behnam wrote:
> But for mortal
> writers it's too complicated to master.
The writer is not supposed to master TeX. The publisher is.
roozbeh
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On Mon, 7 Jun 2004, Roozbeh Pournader wrote:
> On Mon, 2004-06-07 at 21:20, C Bobroff wrote:
> > Now, do you have any more questions before [hopefully] heading off to bed?
>
> OK, my mom just called. She was a little upset. ;-)
>
> BTW, wait for the news from the next cool thing, called "tarh-e ja
On Mon, 2004-06-07 at 22:50, Behdad Esfahbod wrote:
> Over our dead body! The whole world is still to solve that
> cursor movement problem, and you expect...
I expect to solve that "ourselves" (say, FarsiWeb and FriBidi teams), at
least for the perspective of Persian and Iranian users. Is it *tha
On Tue, 2004-06-08 at 13:44, Behdad Esfahbod wrote:
> So don't say it this way that they are doing this great project
> which will save the humanity blah blah... You still get excited
> by those words?
I am excited, since I saw some output from the people involved: A
commercial probabilistic Engl
On Tue, 8 Jun 2004, Roozbeh Pournader wrote:
> On Mon, 2004-06-07 at 22:50, Behdad Esfahbod wrote:
> > Over our dead body! The whole world is still to solve that
> > cursor movement problem, and you expect...
>
> I expect to solve that "ourselves" (say, FarsiWeb and FriBidi teams), at
> least for
Let me inject my foolish questions in the middle of this hot flaming
discussion. What is the cursor problem exactly? And why is it hard to
solve? Is there an FAQ on open problems in Persian Computing?
On Tue, 8 Jun 2004 05:14:40 -0400, Behdad Esfahbod
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On Tue, 8 Jun
On Tue, 2004-06-08 at 18:24, Ordak D. Coward wrote:
> What is the cursor problem exactly?
Have you tried typing multilingual text in an editor like MS Windows'
Notepad? The cursor, the selection, etc, are very hard to handle easily.
You'll get mad very soon.
> And why is it hard to solve?
Becaus
Roozbeh Pournader wrote:
On Tue, 2004-06-08 at 18:24, Ordak D. Coward wrote:
What is the cursor problem exactly?
Have you tried typing multilingual text in an editor like MS Windows'
Notepad? The cursor, the selection, etc, are very hard to handle easily.
You'll get mad very soon.
Yeah,
On Tue, 8 Jun 2004, Ordak D. Coward wrote:
> Let me inject my foolish questions in the middle of this hot flaming
> discussion. What is the cursor problem exactly? And why is it hard to
> solve? Is there an FAQ on open problems in Persian Computing?
Hi there,
Well, the cursor problem is not Pers
On Tue, 8 Jun 2004, Masoud Sharbiani wrote:
> And, if someone starts a list, please add the problem of selecting a
> mixed text (english/persian) with a mouse. No matter what you do, or how
> experienced you are, you'll always get surprised.
Yeah, that's known as the twin of the cursor problem.
> > I volunteer to implement a web interface for the dictionary,
> Excellent!
> You'll have to make it so that whether the user types in bi[ZWNJ]kaar,
> bikaar, or bi kaar, the word will be found!
Yes, that's right. This is relatively easy to implement.
> > but I think we'll need other
> > peop
On Tue, 2004-06-08 at 19:19, Masoud Sharbiani wrote:
> Roozbeh, is it possible to create a wiki for persian computing?
That is *planned* for FarsiWeb's website. I'm sure Behnam Esfahbod and
Elnaz Sarbar will announce here the good news about the new FarsiWeb
website, when it became ready.
roozbeh
On Tue, 2004-06-08 at 18:33, Behdad Esfahbod wrote:
> About a list of open problems, no, there's no such thing yet, but
> Roozbeh and I compiled a similar list sometime back that I don't
> have it anymore.
And I don't even remember doing it! :'-(
When was it?
roozbeh
__
On Tue, 8 Jun 2004, Roozbeh Pournader wrote:
> On Tue, 2004-06-08 at 13:44, Behdad Esfahbod wrote:
> > So don't say it this way that they are doing this great project
> > which will save the humanity blah blah... You still get excited
> > by those words?
>
> I am excited, since I saw some output
On Tue, 8 Jun 2004, Ehsan Akhgari wrote:
> > > I volunteer to implement a web interface for the dictionary,
> > Excellent!
> > You'll have to make it so that whether the user types in bi[ZWNJ]kaar,
> > bikaar, or bi kaar, the word will be found!
>
> Yes, that's right. This is relatively easy to i
On Tue, 8 Jun 2004, Roozbeh Pournader wrote:
> On Tue, 2004-06-08 at 19:19, Masoud Sharbiani wrote:
> > Roozbeh, is it possible to create a wiki for persian computing?
>
> That is *planned* for FarsiWeb's website. I'm sure Behnam Esfahbod and
> Elnaz Sarbar will announce here the good news about t
On Tue, 8 Jun 2004, Roozbeh Pournader wrote:
> On Tue, 2004-06-08 at 18:33, Behdad Esfahbod wrote:
> > About a list of open problems, no, there's no such thing yet, but
> > Roozbeh and I compiled a similar list sometime back that I don't
> > have it anymore.
>
> And I don't even remember doing it!
On Tue, 2004-06-08 at 19:51, Behdad Esfahbod wrote:
> These indeed look exciting, but in my laptop, not theirs.
I'll try my best to get them on the laptop of everybody interested as
early as possible.
> Sure, if it really stays with *us*. "They'll be doing" is what I
> asked if you still get exc
On Tue, 2004-06-08 at 19:55, Behdad Esfahbod wrote:
> Well we have done it a few times, but I meant the tentative
> list we prepared for that Persian Linux project, but that ain't
> nothing.
Yeah, that was not about Persian Computing. That was about
internationalizing and localizing GNU/Linux soft
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