Dmitry Turin wrote:
Good day, Richard.
RH> With 7 flights it is easy to see if #2 matches #4. With 700 it is not so
RH> easy to see #2 matches #504. With a tree-structure it is impossible to
RH> sort leaf nodes without restructuring the tree.
What is "#2 matches #4" ?
Individual flights might
Hi Dmitry,
On Wed, 2007-05-02 at 08:05 +0300, Dmitry Turin wrote:
> J> The average man or woman on the street
>
> For what you say about street ?
> Average people, which you can meet on street, make physical job.
That is an American colloquialism to refer to just about anyone,
regardless of what
Good day, Joe.
Joe and other respected comrades,
don't be angry, when my letter will be late.
This is caused by technical schedule of our internet.
J> ... and C, PHP, Python, etc., to create an application to input
J> and maintain the data.
Question remains open:
for what people must learn php,
Good day, Andrew.
AS> translates it into proper SQL?
How are you going to send and get XML-data by SQL ?
Dmitry Turin
http://html6.by.ru
http://sql4.by.ru
http://computer2.by.ru
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> >> J> And there's nothing wrong with Perl, PHP, Python and the myriad
> >> J> interface languages.
> >> I said many times, what is wrong:
> >> applied users can not join sql and perl, can not use libraries,
> >> and can not adjust web-server.
> J> II have not taken any formal courses
> Joe, i spe
Dmitry Turin wrote:
Good day, Richard.
RH>
RH>
RH>
RH>These three flights represent options
RH>
RH>
RH>
RH> 1. A journey (flight_chain) between city A and city Z consists of one or
RH> more flights.
RH> 2. The next flight has to start at the current city, but ther
Dmitry,
On Thu, 2007-04-26 at 11:33 +0300, Dmitry Turin wrote:
> Joe, i speak not about you, but about statistics.
Do you actually have statistics of how many people in the general
population have learned SQL? And furthermore, how many of those people
didn't already know or didn't want to bother
On Thu, Apr 26, 2007 at 11:28:30AM +0300, Dmitry Turin wrote:
>
> Yes.
> Remember, this is not manner of storing data in DBMS.
> This is manner to visualize for man.
So all of this sound and fury is not, as we have been understanding
it, over some fundamental change to the way Pg works, but is in
Good day, Richard.
>> RH>
>> RH>
>> RH>
>> RH>These three flights represent options
>> RH>
>> RH>
>> RH>
RH> 1. A journey (flight_chain) between city A and city Z consists of one or
RH> more flights.
RH> 2. The next flight has to start at the current city, but there m
Dmitry Turin wrote:
Good day, Richard.
RH>
RH>
RH>
RH>These three flights represent options
RH>
RH>
RH>
Tag is un-necessary (in point of view of DBMS theory).
But that's what you're describing isn't it?
1. A journey (flight_chain) between city A and city Z consi
Good day, Joe.
>> J> And there's nothing wrong with Perl, PHP, Python and the myriad
>> J> interface languages.
>>
>> I said many times, what is wrong:
>> applied users can not join sql and perl, can not use libraries,
>> and can not adjust web-server.
J> II have not taken any formal courses
Jo
Good day, Richard.
RH>
RH>
RH>
RH>These three flights represent options
RH>
RH>
RH>
Tag is un-necessary (in point of view of DBMS theory).
RH> 2. If you nest flights then you'll be forced to repeat data, surely?
RH> Multiple routes could end up mentioning flight id
Good day, Richard.
RH>
RH>
RH>
RH>These three flights represent options
RH>
RH>
RH>
Tag is un-necessary (in point of view of DBMS theory).
RH> 2. If you nest flights then you'll be forced to repeat data, surely?
RH> Multiple routes could end up mentioning flight id
Hi Dmitry,
On Wed, 2007-04-25 at 10:47 +0300, Dmitry Turin wrote:
> J> And there's nothing wrong with Perl, PHP, Python and the myriad
> J> interface languages.
>
> I said many times, what is wrong:
> applied users can not join sql and perl, can not use libraries,
> and can not adjust web-server.
Don't forget to cc: the list.
Dmitry Turin wrote:
Good day, Richard.
http://sql4.by.ru/site/sql40/en/author/wave_eng.htm
RH> example 2
RH> 1. I can see how one flight might follow another, but not contained. Do you
RH> not need some new object "flight_chain" or similar?
No !
Fork is possible
Good day, Joe.
>> J> How do I see employees in just one department?
>> department[id="1"].employee >>;
>> department[name="Technical"].employee >>;
J> How is that any different or better than a standard SQL SELECT
by absence of gasket (php, its library; perl, its library; etc)
J> XML is *not* th
Hi Dmitry,
On Tue, 2007-04-24 at 15:31 +0300, Dmitry Turin wrote:
> J> How do I see employees in just one department?
>
> department[id="1"].employee >>;
>
> or
>
> department[name="Technical"].employee >>;
How is that any different or better than a standard SQL SELECT (or to
use another conte
Dmitry Turin wrote:
Good day, Joe.
I would change your examples to use less abstract
data, like department/employee, customer/product/order/order_line
J> I contend that then you'd find more people
J> receptive to your ideas or at least able to criticize them from more
J> concrete viewpoints.
Good day, Joe.
J> "Fictional" is IMO not a good choice for
J> describing aggregates, because it means "a story that is not true",
J> whereas an SQL aggregate is something that is "true" (in the
J> mathematical sense) but is "derived" from other values.
It means, that TML and DDL aggregates have d
Good day, Joe.
>> >I would change your examples to use less abstract
>> > data, like department/employee, customer/product/order/order_line
J> I contend that then you'd find more people
J> receptive to your ideas or at least able to criticize them from more
J> concrete viewpoints.
I expected, th
Good day, Bart.
> I'll continue with the analogy
Let's suppose, that you want to compare rational and hierarchical
DBMS instead of discussion about removing gaskets
(by the way, hierarchical DBMS also need gasket between itself and
external world).
Because TML should integrated inside rational DB
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Hi Dmitry,
On Mon, 2007-04-23 at 11:20 +0300, Dmitry Turin wrote:
> >I would change your examples to use less abstract
> > data, like department/employee, customer/product/order/order_line
>
> This will not help.
> To my mind, forum of real database is place,
"What we got here is ... failure to
I'll continue with the analogy
It is not impossible to attach wings to a sportscar. When you do, you
will probably get the sportscar flying.
However:
1. Why would you even try, if airplanes (which are designed from
scratch to fly) already exist. Just use them
2. If you try nevertheless, is getting
Good day, Joe.
>> Table must be created in traditional way (by "create table, alter
>> table") and not through browser.
>> User must use "create table", etc in database-terminal like "psql.exe".
> By "in a special way" I meant that tables have referential constraints
> to other tables and they app
If these people really work with hierarchically structured data, let
them try a hierarchical database (even though PostgreSQL is your
favourite database). They will profit 100fold from the advantages such a
database has for such data. I now several biologists specialized in
taxonomy (which is by na
A hierarchical is specialized in managing data which is hierarchically
structured, while a relational database is not.
Maybe this analogy is clearer: If you want to fly you could attach
wings to your sportscar, but it's more logical to use a plane.
>>> Dmitry Turin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 2007-04-20 1
>every physicist or biologist ... knew a great deal of Perl
They spend own time and force for that.
Next generation will not have this need.
>they got the computer-support staff (that was my job)
And your money.
Besides money, they spend own time to explain task to you.
>People ... have to lear
> he wants to create a universal "database to web" interface language, so
> that you and I won't have to deal with the pesky complications of
> retrieving data in C with libpq or with PHP, Python and what not
> libraries or "adapters", and then have to transform that data for
> display to the user.
>have you written a TML parser
No.
I want, that you and other people help me in that.
>do you have feedback from actual average users,
>that TML is indeed easier to use than SQL?
Yes.
TML was born in discuss with these users
(mainly nucleus physicists, optics , molecular biologists, zoologist
an
On Fri, Apr 20, 2007 at 05:49:08PM +0300, Dmitry Turin wrote:
> I speak about appied specialists (physicists, biologists, etc), which
> can NOT do that.
> >it's just an afternoon's work
>
> Not for mentioned people.
I think part of the reason I'm sceptical of your plan is that every
physicist o
>How do I know with the "id=200" that 200 is an int rather than a byte or
>string?
Field (of database) and attribute (of tag) are put into one-to-one
correspondence.
Thus datatype of attribute is datatype of field (which is specified
during "create table" or "alter table").
>how do we add the ne
Just some thoughts on the matter:
Dmitry, you should acknowledge the fact that in databses you have two kinds of
hierarchies:
a) The hierarchy denoted by the referential constraints between tables which
constitute a Directed Graph (DG), with tables as nodes and FKeys as arrows.
b) Hierarchies ap
Hi Richard,
On Fri, 2007-04-20 at 13:50 +0100, Richard Huxton wrote:
> OK, but I'm still not seeing how this avoids me having to use
> PHP/Perl/etc anyway. I mean, I'm going to need some application logic at
> some point, in which case who cares whether the RDBMS has this specific
> layout as a
Hi Richard,
On Fri, 2007-04-20 at 12:14 +0100, Richard Huxton wrote:
> I'm not sure that anyone is clear why you just don't write this as a
> simple php/perl/ruby/whatever script? There are libraries that will
> output XML for you in most of these I'd suspect, and if not it's just an
> afternoo
Joe wrote:
Hi Richard,
On Fri, 2007-04-20 at 12:14 +0100, Richard Huxton wrote:
I'm not sure that anyone is clear why you just don't write this as a
simple php/perl/ruby/whatever script? There are libraries that will
output XML for you in most of these I'd suspect, and if not it's just an
aft
Trees like you seem to suggest are called hierarchies. If you prefer
hierarchies over relationnality you could use a hierarchical database instead
of a relational database. When you search the internet you can find plenty of
information on eg Adabas, GT.M., IMS, DMSII, Focus, Metakit and many ot
Dmitry Turin wrote:
you are proposing is to ... break the relational model of SQL
No. I'm proposing to add new thinking about relational model
(primary i want to write "to add new view", but i remember, that
"view" is reserved word in SQL :) ).
Сonvince yourself, please:
create table a (
id
>you are proposing is to ... break the relational model of SQL
No. I'm proposing to add new thinking about relational model
(primary i want to write "to add new view", but i remember, that
"view" is reserved word in SQL :) ).
Сonvince yourself, please:
create table a (
id num primary key
On Thu, Apr 19, 2007 at 09:08:27AM +0300, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >In particular, XML is actually miserably bad at capturing certain
> >kinds of relations between items.
>
> Write examples, please.
>
> P.S. By the way, XML is mentioned as tool for traffic (for transport).
> But i agree to for
On 4/19/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Problem consist of transportation data, received by SQL, into external
world. As i already wrote, it's very difficalt for users (in practice)
to use libraries of additional language (php , perl, etc) for that.
I offer to put one feature i
>In particular, XML is actually miserably bad at capturing certain kinds of
>relations between items.
Write examples, please.
P.S. By the way, XML is mentioned as tool for traffic (for transport).
But i agree to forget about that to learn what are you imply in your
quoting.
>SQL is not so fanta
On Fri, Apr 13, 2007 at 10:58:12AM +0300, Dmitry Turin wrote:
> The most general format for data is XML.
Surely not. In particular, XML is actually miserably bad at
capturing certain kinds of relations between items. It's in fact
this assumption that has made this conversation seem like we're
ta
Usage of database consist of
request and transportation of results into visualizer.
We all are looped on Internet, thus visualizer should be remoted.
The most general format for data is XML.
We also need to choose transport protocol:
the most widespread is HTTP.
SQL could send data so.
Now SQL do
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