Re: [Pharo-dev] [Inspiration] Toward a better programming

2014-04-26 Thread Sven Van Caekenberghe
On 29 Mar 2014, at 11:31, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: > | input | > input := #(2 4 4 4 5 5 7 9). > (((input - input average) raisedTo: 2) sum / (input size - 1)) sqrt. Shorter, simpler using #squared : | input | input := #(2 4 4 4 5 5 7 9). ((input - input average) squared sum / (input size -

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Inspiration] Toward a better programming

2014-04-07 Thread Alexandre Bergel
> Now this is clear that Roassal is a bit reinventing Morphic to some extend > but this is like that. Indeed, Roassal offers facilities that clearly looks like the ones of Morphic. However, Roassal is not meant to build GUI (for now). The primary uses of Roassal is visualizing data. And yes, yo

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Inspiration] Toward a better programming

2014-04-06 Thread Clément Bera
Hello, Currently on the VM one of the next step is to speed up numerical computation, it should happen in around a year. Right now it would not worth it because even in arithmetic intensive benchs (I'm talking abut floating pointer benchs) the VM spends most of its time in the GC or iterating over

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Inspiration] Toward a better programming

2014-04-06 Thread S Krish
"...Coherent and robust philosophy..." We got to be aware of the fact that Wolfram is recognized as a renegade scientist with a great work in Mathematica but the work on cellular automata and his theory on New kind of Science is controversial to put it lightly. What appeals to me as ideas / conce

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Inspiration] Toward a better programming

2014-04-03 Thread Goubier Thierry
Le 02/04/2014 22:51, Pharo4Stef a écrit : On 02 Apr 2014, at 13:31, Goubier Thierry wrote: Le 02/04/2014 08:12, Tudor Girba a écrit : The language itself is less interesting for me, but what makes it stand out is that it has a coherent and robust philosophy behind and phenomenal goals to

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Inspiration] Toward a better programming

2014-04-02 Thread Pharo4Stef
On 02 Apr 2014, at 13:31, Goubier Thierry wrote: > > > Le 02/04/2014 08:12, Tudor Girba a écrit : >> The language itself is less interesting for me, but what makes it stand >> out is that it has a coherent and robust philosophy behind and >> phenomenal goals to reach. In Pharo, we have the lux

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Inspiration] Toward a better programming

2014-04-02 Thread Goubier Thierry
Le 02/04/2014 13:58, p...@highoctane.be a écrit : Yes, RB would immensely benefit from some doc. +100. SmaCC makes use of RB, and there are a few things I'd need help with. See other thread on that. I've seen it. Try to do a RB environment selecting what you want and loop on all classes

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Inspiration] Toward a better programming

2014-04-02 Thread p...@highoctane.be
Yes, RB would immensely benefit from some doc. See other thread on that. I will start something pnce I get it wotking for my case. Phil Le 2 avr. 2014 13:30, "Goubier Thierry" a écrit : > > > Le 02/04/2014 08:12, Tudor Girba a écrit : > >> The language itself is less interesting for me, but w

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Inspiration] Toward a better programming

2014-04-02 Thread Goubier Thierry
Le 02/04/2014 08:12, Tudor Girba a écrit : The language itself is less interesting for me, but what makes it stand out is that it has a coherent and robust philosophy behind and phenomenal goals to reach. In Pharo, we have the luxury of building on top of coherent and robust philosophy (even if

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Inspiration] Toward a better programming

2014-04-02 Thread Sven Van Caekenberghe
Yes, having grand, ambitious goals is important. It is all to easy to get lost and demotivated in the day to day details, but on the other hand, that work must be done. I just read the piece about their design process and reviews. It is indeed amazing that they can have such a complex system wi

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Inspiration] Toward a better programming

2014-04-02 Thread p...@highoctane.be
Environmentally aware is nice indeed. We can have this. Phil Le 2 avr. 2014 11:11, "Tudor Girba" a écrit : > Both. But, does it really matter? :) > > Doru > > > On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 9:49 AM, Norbert Hartl wrote: > >> Definitely the latter... >> >> Norbert >> >> Am 02.04.2014 um 09:11 schrieb

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Inspiration] Toward a better programming

2014-04-02 Thread Tudor Girba
Both. But, does it really matter? :) Doru On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 9:49 AM, Norbert Hartl wrote: > Definitely the latter... > > Norbert > > Am 02.04.2014 um 09:11 schrieb Andres Valloud < > avall...@smalltalk.comcastbiz.net>: > > > Hey Doru, I was going to ask "so is that a language or a library

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Inspiration] Toward a better programming

2014-04-02 Thread Norbert Hartl
Definitely the latter… Norbert Am 02.04.2014 um 09:11 schrieb Andres Valloud : > Hey Doru, I was going to ask "so is that a language or a library?"... > > On 4/1/14 23:12 , Tudor Girba wrote: >> Indeed, I read this article several times over the last couple of days. >> This work is impressive

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Inspiration] Toward a better programming

2014-04-02 Thread Andres Valloud
Hey Doru, I was going to ask "so is that a language or a library?"... On 4/1/14 23:12 , Tudor Girba wrote: Indeed, I read this article several times over the last couple of days. This work is impressive particularly when combined with the cloud part. The language itself is less interesting for

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Inspiration] Toward a better programming

2014-04-01 Thread Tudor Girba
Indeed, I read this article several times over the last couple of days. This work is impressive particularly when combined with the cloud part. The language itself is less interesting for me, but what makes it stand out is that it has a coherent and robust philosophy behind and phenomenal goals to

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Inspiration] Toward a better programming

2014-04-01 Thread Sven Van Caekenberghe
On 31 Mar 2014, at 06:21, S Krish wrote: > How about impact of this: > > http://blog.stephenwolfram.com/2014/03/injecting-computation-everywhere-a-sxsw-update/ > > I would agree it is quite complex for any beginner, but utility of a > programming language on these lines seems cut out for the

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Inspiration] Toward a better programming

2014-04-01 Thread Tudor Girba
Exactly. And it is of critical importance to have these tools directly supported by the IDE :) Doru On Tue, Apr 1, 2014 at 10:57 AM, Pharo4Stef wrote: > Go go go! > Roassal2 (with Athens) can change the face of Pharo. > > Stef > > > > I cannot resist to jump on this. Indeed, we have the moral

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Inspiration] Toward a better programming

2014-04-01 Thread Pharo4Stef
Go go go! Roassal2 (with Athens) can change the face of Pharo. Stef > I cannot resist to jump on this. Indeed, we have the moral obligation to > promote what we have crafted over the year. > Producing a high-quality video has been on my todo list for quite some times > already. As you probabl

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Inspiration] Toward a better programming

2014-03-31 Thread Sebastian Sastre
excellent thread. Thanks for sharing. Here I’ve posted some thoughts that might contribute with some reflections: http://sebastianconcept.com/brandIt/its-about-objects-isnt-it sebastian o/ On Mar 29, 2014, at 6:38 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: > This is a nice write down: > > http://

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Inspiration] Toward a better programming

2014-03-31 Thread Henrik Johansen
On 31 Mar 2014, at 10:51 , Sergi Reyner wrote: > 2014-03-31 9:26 GMT+01:00 kilon alios : > artist in both sides , music and 3d graphics prefer foremost node setups. > > Who? Sources? Here’s a good example, from one of the premier game engines: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7xRc-iSLXg Unity

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Inspiration] Toward a better programming

2014-03-31 Thread kilon alios
The last part of my post is opinion yes. My opinion is that visual coding will slowly and steadily penetrate other markets as its has for music and Computer Graphics. Its not a fact, nor I have experience with other sectors to offer a solid opinion on them. Its more like a logical conclusion. I co

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Inspiration] Toward a better programming

2014-03-31 Thread Sergi Reyner
2014-03-31 9:26 GMT+01:00 kilon alios : > artist in both sides , music and 3d graphics prefer foremost node setups. > Who? Sources? > Text based coding has prevailed because early computer could not handle > graphics well. > I´m sure that the fact that text is easily manipulable has had more t

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Inspiration] Toward a better programming

2014-03-31 Thread p...@highoctane.be
This is mostly for given verticals. Same as sound, with Guitar Rig or Ableton https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMP8onefhoQ But yes, it is cooler to work with the blocks than with code. Now, you need the code to do the block. Phil On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 10:26 AM, kilon alios wrote: > It has a

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Inspiration] Toward a better programming

2014-03-31 Thread kilon alios
It has already happened , and there 2 rather huge commercial examples a) Native Instrument's Reaktor -> http://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/komplete/synths-samplers/reaktor-5/ b) Softimage ICE -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=do1kzR6gVYk And those are not your everyday examples. Reak

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Inspiration] Toward a better programming

2014-03-30 Thread p...@highoctane.be
Impressive. Now, let's get back to our work, as "what matters in the end is what people choose to do." And we'll for sure still learn a lot making Pharo a great platform (we do not have Wolfram's 700 individuals engineering force). I'd vote for a Pharo integration like they show for Python and J

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Inspiration] Toward a better programming

2014-03-30 Thread Sven Van Caekenberghe
Looking forward to it. Yes, I think you and your team have done a lot to move in the right direction, thanks a lot. If you want to reach a larger audience, try to go as light as possible on the actual Smalltalk code, even if you have to cheat a bit by choosing good looking examples - the effec

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Inspiration] Toward a better programming

2014-03-30 Thread S Krish
How about impact of this: http://blog.stephenwolfram.com/2014/03/injecting-computation-everywhere-a-sxsw-update/ I would agree it is quite complex for any beginner, but utility of a programming language on these lines seems cut out for the future.. On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 6:56 AM, Alexandre B

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Inspiration] Toward a better programming

2014-03-30 Thread Alexandre Bergel
I cannot resist to jump on this. Indeed, we have the moral obligation to promote what we have crafted over the year. Producing a high-quality video has been on my todo list for quite some times already. As you probably know, we did some intent already (videos about Roassal, GraphET, and other t

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Inspiration] Toward a better programming

2014-03-29 Thread Igor Stasenko
Yes. It is harmful to throw away semantic in favor of high-level abstractions. As well as opposite.. You need to use (and master) both. IMO smalltalk environment, as such, is capable to demonstrate that is is possible to achieve this golden middle, where abstraction(s) meet low-level semantics, w

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Inspiration] Toward a better programming

2014-03-29 Thread p...@highoctane.be
I was using Pharo today for a maths expo that my wife organized for her school day. Feedback from the whiz kids: "That nice if one wants to control its environment. But I am learning C first because I want to understand how the machine works and I got lost by using all kinds of languages and mas

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Inspiration] Toward a better programming

2014-03-29 Thread Igor Stasenko
On 29 March 2014 18:35, Tudor Girba wrote: > Hi, > > Sure he is repeating things. And sure he is reinventing half of what we > already have. > > However, he is likely to get more traction because he reinvents the UI, > not the core concepts. You could say it is not an essential contribution. > Bu

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Inspiration] Toward a better programming

2014-03-29 Thread Tudor Girba
Hi, Sure he is repeating things. And sure he is reinventing half of what we already have. However, he is likely to get more traction because he reinvents the UI, not the core concepts. You could say it is not an essential contribution. But, it is. Doru On Sat, Mar 29, 2014 at 6:28 PM, Igor Sta

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Inspiration] Toward a better programming

2014-03-29 Thread Igor Stasenko
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ox5P7QyL774 On 29 March 2014 18:28, Igor Stasenko wrote: > Sure, guy just repeating almost same thesis as in the original Self demo > dated back in '95, > "direct manipulation with objects errr.. data".. > except that now in crappy web-based environment.. and sti

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Inspiration] Toward a better programming

2014-03-29 Thread Igor Stasenko
Sure, guy just repeating almost same thesis as in the original Self demo dated back in '95, "direct manipulation with objects errr.. data".. except that now in crappy web-based environment.. and still missing the point.. because it is not about data, it is about objects. On 29 March 2014 18:20,

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Inspiration] Toward a better programming

2014-03-29 Thread Tudor Girba
Beautiful demo. This should be our game, yet others are playing it :(. Doru On Sat, Mar 29, 2014 at 11:31 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: > > On 29 Mar 2014, at 10:38, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: > > > This is a nice write down: > > > > http://www.chris-granger.com/2014/03/27/toward-a-bette

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Inspiration] Toward a better programming

2014-03-29 Thread Sven Van Caekenberghe
On 29 Mar 2014, at 10:38, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: > This is a nice write down: > > http://www.chris-granger.com/2014/03/27/toward-a-better-programming/ > > with a nice demo of a prototype: > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6iUm_Cqx2s > > Luckily, the horrible C++ code computing sta

[Pharo-dev] [Inspiration] Toward a better programming

2014-03-29 Thread Sven Van Caekenberghe
This is a nice write down: http://www.chris-granger.com/2014/03/27/toward-a-better-programming/ with a nice demo of a prototype: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6iUm_Cqx2s Luckily, the horrible C++ code computing standard deviation in the article can be written quite elegantly and directl