Maybe not for smalltalk but for python there is a number of surveys that prove
that by replacing java with python you can scale down developing time by 2-3x
times. By "prove" I mean projects that have actually done that. Not quite a
10x but I think its impressive non the less and I think the nu
exactly what I meant, glad you see it that way too.
From: Hilaire Fernandes
To: pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr
Sent: Saturday, 28 January 2012, 23:06
Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Smalltalk for small projects only?
May be it is time to forget about the im
Very good point . The tools and the libraries sometimes can play more important
role than the language itself. However Java seems to constantly loosing
developers because if something is a mess for small project for big projects
becomes a big mess , just take a look how many gazillion scripting
it also helps that "pharo" via google easily points to the website as it is not
so commonly used in the internet as a name.
Being Greek and big lover of the sea, I am a big fan of the name. My full nick
name is "Κηλών Άλιος" "Kilon Alios" means "the one who charms/motivates and
came from the se
Very good Point , I have not consider it in that way , you just opened for me
another perspective of the problem.
From: Marcus Denker
To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr; dimitris chloupis
Sent: Friday, 27 January 2012, 15:33
Subject: Re: [Pharo-project
Hi Igor,
Am 29.01.2012 um 00:11 schrieb Igor Stasenko :
> now try to merge it with your "magical" SCM which can resolve such
> kind of conflicts.
no tool can ever replace communication. Regardless of programming language used.
Best,
Michael
Janko,
Am 28.01.2012 um 23:37 schrieb Janko Mivšek :
>> I'm not so sure the people at those Smalltalk firms building software for
>> banks et al. have no project management. Boasting? ;-)
>
> As I said in first post, there are few exceptions. But they all have
> their dev. process developed inte
Is there a way for fix underscores via OB in lieu of the programmatic way
shown at
http://book.pharo-project.org/book/Tidbits/TipsAndTricks/FixingUnderscores ?
--
View this message in context:
http://forum.world.st/Problems-loading-underscore-assignments-tp4337617p4337618.html
Sent from the Pharo
I tried both programmatically ("Scanner allowUnderscoreAsAssignment: true")
and via the settings browser to allow underscore assignments, but I still
got errors loading AtomMorph. e.g.
"Syntax Error"
randomPositionIn: aRectangle maxVelocity: maxVelocity
"Give this atom a random pos
Lawson English-2 wrote
>
> One thing that I have heard is that *no one* has really stepped up and
> given feedback to Craig.
This is not totally accurate. After sitting with Craig at the last ESUG, I
immediately ran into problems trying to simulate the VM and was unable to
get answers on the ma
Igor Stasenko wrote
>
> so, why people keep doing it wrong? :)
>
Excepting the minority intending to contribute to the VM, why not encourage
taking the sources, image, and build script from Jenkins, which are always
in sync.
--
View this message in context:
http://forum.world.st/Trying-to-bui
Martin,
Very good points ... So here's a little riff on:
"Always start from a fresh one and load the code back in"
Just imagine if the standard Smalltalk development experience started with a
micro-image (a compiler and not much else) and then went through the following
steps:
1. decide w
"Janko Mivšek" wrote:
> Ralph Johnson in his InfoQ interview made an interesting observation:
>
> 2:55 minute: "Smalltalk made an fundamental error ... image ... you can
> build something with 4-5 people what 50 people can build in Java, but if
> you take 200 people in Java ... it is really designe
For this to work, we need Spoon and tools designed around Spoon, I think.
One thing that I have heard is that *no one* has really stepped up and
given feedback to Craig. I was one of the most "expert" people around
simply because I had downloaded his latest version.
Hint hint, folks.
L.
L.
Hi Dale!
Quite interesting. Good example for "declarative programming" is Mustache:
http://mustache.github.com/mustache.5.html
It generally makes cross platform programming easier! :-)
Have fun!
Guido Stepken
>
> Karl,
...
...
> I invite you to read Allen Wirfs-Brock's paper on "Declarative
S
Karl,
For the types of project that would employ a team of 200, you need to be able
to reliably reproduce the state of an image, from scratch, 5 years after
development has completed ...
I invite you to read Allen Wirfs-Brock's paper on "Declarative Smalltalk"[1].
Here are some excerpts:
S
Understood. BTW, I'm a GOOD commander. I design stuff and parcel things out to
troops to kick some and then report back, making myself available along the
way. If it goes wrong, it's ON ME, not my people.
Find a mainstream "manager" with those kind of cajones and we'll talk. Give me
six good
On 29 January 2012 00:04, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
> EEKk :)
>
> "In traditional file bases language like Java or C using a traditional SCM,
> you will immediately hit problems when even a couple of people work on parts
> of code that are closely related."
>
> No, it's cool, it's EASY.
Thanks for your efforts. But hype the correct parts used properly.
NB is an FFI alternative; it has zip to do with "creating applications" which
is code wordism for starting over on every little job you do, because whoever
works that way hasn't yet caught on to adding a facade/package to hold
On 28 January 2012 23:58, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
> 200 5+year smalltalkers - that's an army capable of almost anything...
>
without good commander, this is not an army but a bunch of individuals.
unfortunatelly, unlike the machines, human intelligence are not
summing up linearly.
Because then,
EEKk :)
"In traditional file bases language like Java or C using a traditional SCM, you
will immediately hit problems when even a couple of people work on parts of
code that are closely related."
No, it's cool, it's EASY. "You just" check in your code and merge it. How
dare you sug
>
> I don't know. But how do you know from his stackstrace that the problem is
> that ?
>
>
i dont. :)
i replied after seeing an Esteban's message saying that your post is
outdated and one should use 3.9 config version.
and couple days before we had someone who asking why NB-enabled VM fails to
bui
200 5+year smalltalkers - that's an army capable of almost anything...
From: pharo-project-boun...@lists.gforge.inria.fr
[pharo-project-boun...@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Dale Henrichs
[dhenr...@vmware.com]
Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2012 1:0
Sven,
Keep in mind that I'm talking about making it possible for teams of 200 to use
Smalltalk (or 20 teams of 10, or 20 teams of 4) ...
How many Smalltalk developers rebuild their image from scratch multiple times
per hour (day/month/year) during a development cycle ... If Smalltalk
develope
Nice post.
Still, we want a data-flow browser + being able to control/customize UIs :)
Sure, this is vry hard to achieve.
But i understand that focusing at single problem and providing good
solution for it is better
than having no focus and trying to deal with everything at once and
finally fa
On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 11:45 PM, Igor Stasenko wrote:
>
>
> On 28 January 2012 23:22, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 10:37 PM, Igor Stasenko wrote:
>>
>>> On 28 January 2012 22:11, Mariano Martinez Peck
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 10:04
On 28 January 2012 23:22, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote:
>
>
> On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 10:37 PM, Igor Stasenko wrote:
>
>> On 28 January 2012 22:11, Mariano Martinez Peck
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 10:04 PM, Igor Stasenko
>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On 28 January 2012 22:03, Igor S
Hi Michael,
S, Michael Haupt piše:
>>> I think this is a post that clearly illustrates the big problem with
>>> smalltalk. The very fact that is compared with Java and Java survives.
>> Yes, that 4-5 people can do what 50 Java people are needed is both a
>> blessing and a curse :)
>
> I wanted
Frank,
No I meant what I said I'm not talking in a literal sense, but a
functional sense
With Metacello I can 'clone' version 3.0.6 of Seaside30, i.e., make a local
copy of all of mcz files that make up version 3.0.6 in local directory. If I
load the files into an image I can edit t
On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 10:37 PM, Igor Stasenko wrote:
> On 28 January 2012 22:11, Mariano Martinez Peck
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 10:04 PM, Igor Stasenko
> wrote:
> >>
> >> On 28 January 2012 22:03, Igor Stasenko wrote:
> >> > On 28 January 2012 19:00, Esteban Lorenzano
>
2012/1/28 Dale Henrichs :
> Janko,
>
> Metacello itself needs work to make it usable by groups of developers ... the
> lack of merge capability is a real hindrance to being able to have multiple
> folks work on the same project and use Metacello ...
>
> I imagine that a Metacello configuration is
Hi,
Working with Glamour requires a slightly different mindset than when working
with a generic user interface framework. Because this seems to generate
confusion, I wrote down a small post that explains the differences.
http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/browsers-vs-guis
Still issues? Just
On 28 January 2012 22:11, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote:
>
>
> On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 10:04 PM, Igor Stasenko wrote:
>>
>> On 28 January 2012 22:03, Igor Stasenko wrote:
>> > On 28 January 2012 19:00, Esteban Lorenzano wrote:
>> >> hi,
>> >>
>> >> you need to install xcode, not just gcc from mac
Karl,
Am 28.01.2012 um 20:39 schrieb karl ramberg :
> Is there any work done on managing live images with several developers ?
I'm not all sure I understand your question, but:
http://www.hpi.uni-potsdam.de/hirschfeld/misc/etc/index.html
Best,
Michael
Janko,
Metacello itself needs work to make it usable by groups of developers ... the
lack of merge capability is a real hindrance to being able to have multiple
folks work on the same project and use Metacello ...
I imagine that a Metacello configuration is the moral equivalent of a git
reposi
Janko,
Am 28.01.2012 um 21:08 schrieb Janko Mivšek :
>> I think this is a post that clearly illustrates the big problem with
>> smalltalk. The very fact that is compared with Java and Java survives.
>
> Yes, that 4-5 peole can do what 50 Java people are needed is both a
> blessing and a curse :)
This is strange.
Did you look at the startup sequence?
On Jan 28, 2012, at 10:01 PM, Hilaire Fernandes wrote:
> Hello Pharoers,
>
> I am using "Smalltalk addToStartUpList: self" to register DrGeo in the
> startup sequence, so a new drgeo window is instantiated fullscreen
> automatically if none
On 28 January 2012 22:06, Hilaire Fernandes wrote:
> May be it is time to forget about the image, I mean the name of the
> image and change for something else, more in the proximal learning zone
> of programmer. It is not an image we have, it is a data base of object,
> and we are programming on t
I am tempted to use #addDeferredStartupAction: instead, but it is not
clear yet. If anyone has some experience to share about that I take it.
Hilaire
Le 28/01/2012 22:01, Hilaire Fernandes a écrit :
> Hello Pharoers,
>
> I am using "Smalltalk addToStartUpList: self" to register DrGeo in the
> s
On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 10:04 PM, Igor Stasenko wrote:
> On 28 January 2012 22:03, Igor Stasenko wrote:
> > On 28 January 2012 19:00, Esteban Lorenzano wrote:
> >> hi,
> >>
> >> you need to install xcode, not just gcc from macports (you'll need the
> >> libraries). Also, notice that Mariano's b
May be it is time to forget about the image, I mean the name of the
image and change for something else, more in the proximal learning zone
of programmer. It is not an image we have, it is a data base of object,
and we are programming on this object data base.
Hilaire
Le 28/01/2012 17:50, dimitr
On 28 January 2012 22:03, Igor Stasenko wrote:
> On 28 January 2012 19:00, Esteban Lorenzano wrote:
>> hi,
>>
>> you need to install xcode, not just gcc from macports (you'll need the
>> libraries). Also, notice that Mariano's blog was outdated (I know he was
>> working to update it this days, bu
Hello Pharoers,
I am using "Smalltalk addToStartUpList: self" to register DrGeo in the
startup sequence, so a new drgeo window is instantiated fullscreen
automatically if none exist. However I have noted, at least on iPad and
Android, that the instantiated window is not set to the correct
fullscre
Dale,
I agree with you that source code management is where we are weak. A
process therefore, as James already said.
In SCM VisualWorks is ahead in my opinion, even that Store is also not
perfect yet. But it would be useful to reuse some of ideas in Monticello
based SCM tools too. With Metacello
S, dimitris chloupis piše:
> I think this is a post that clearly illustrates the big problem with
> smalltalk. The very fact that is compared with Java and Java survives.
Yes, that 4-5 peole can do what 50 Java people are needed is both a
blessing and a curse :) Blessing because of productivity,
Spoon would address many of these issues in a Smalltalk-centric way, I
think.
L.
On 1/28/12 11:07 AM, Dale Henrichs wrote:
Janko,
I think the limitation for Smalltalk lies in source code management
tools/styles ...
With a file-based language 200 engineers can contribute to the project ...
On 1/28/12 10:12 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
You say "underhyped" as though this is bad - *hype* is BADD. Junk
needs hype to survive.
It took me a while to learn that "creating an application" in ST is
"hard" - it's because it's not well supported because the initiated
don't waste their
Dale,
On 28 Jan 2012, at 19:07, Dale Henrichs wrote:
> Janko,
>
> I think the limitation for Smalltalk lies in source code management
> tools/styles ...
>
> With a file-based language 200 engineers can contribute to the project ...
> each engineer can checkout a version of the system work i
Janko,
I think the limitation for Smalltalk lies in source code management
tools/styles ...
With a file-based language 200 engineers can contribute to the project ...
each engineer can checkout a version of the system work in isolation then
commit his or her work to the shared repository res
I started fixing that, but it was before Colin's refactoring, so now
one would need to fix the fix…
On 28 January 2012 02:04, Débora Fortini wrote:
> ok, Thank you! ;)
>
> On 27 January 2012 21:42, Camillo Bruni wrote:
>> Hi Deby,
>>
>> Open a bug report :) I think the memory FS should handle t
no... but now that repository is open I can do it... maybe on monday :)
best,
Esteban
El 28/01/2012, a las 4:57a.m., Stéphane Ducasse escribió:
> Is there a configuration because the dependency to GR should be made explicit?
>
> Stef
>
> On Jan 28, 2012, at 1:04 AM, Esteban Lorenzano wrote:
>
You say "underhyped" as though this is bad - *hype* is BADD. Junk needs
hype to survive.
It took me a while to learn that "creating an application" in ST is "hard" -
it's because it's not well supported because the initiated don't waste their
time with it _until_ it comes time to deploy, a
I think this is a post that clearly illustrates the big problem with smalltalk.
The very fact that is compared with Java and Java survives.
You know I dont find it mysterious at all that smalltalk is unpopular as it is.
If I go to the python website I know in 4 second why I should use python, i
14297
-
- Issue 5172: Change SystemAnnouncement names.
http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=5172
- Issue 5221: SystemClassModifiedClassDefinitionAnnouncement is missing.
http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=5221
Stef
Hi guys,
Ralph Johnson in his InfoQ interview made an interesting observation:
2:55 minute: "Smalltalk made an fundamental error ... image ... you can
build something with 4-5 people what 50 people can build in Java, but if
you take 200 people in Java ... it is really designed for small systems
.
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