On Feb 23, 2012, at 6:20 PM, Milan Mimica wrote:
> On 23 February 2012 07:58, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
>
> well take what you believe is important for you and help us.
>
> I will.
> Question: do you expect Pharo to fork into more specialized branches?
> I would like if that happened.
I do not
Christoph,
Am 23.02.2012 um 09:31 schrieb Christoph Wysseier:
> Dear Andreas
>
> Am 22.02.12 23:00, schrieb Andreas Wacknitz:
>>
>> Am 22.02.2012 um 10:34 schrieb Janko Mivšek:
>>
>>> S, Christoph Wysseier piše:
>>>
Stéphane Ducasse:
>>>
> I'm convinced that having support for mult
On Feb 23, 2012, at 11:12 AM, Janko Mivšek wrote:
> S, Milan Mimica piše:
>
>>> Pharo is an IDE. IDEs don't run on tablets.
>>
>>But open your eyes. Pharo is much more than an ide.
>
>> Exactly. And Squeak is even more than Pharo, but more is not better. I
>> think we should focus and ther
:)
We got a team meeting around 1.4 release yesterday and we have to fix some
points first :)
> hehe, well, I say in the sense that it's greatly possible that 1.4 is
> released BEFORE I can even write a single line of the new xmlrpc... :)
>
>>
>> > Now I code in 1.4 most of my time.
>>
>> Tha
I think better idea is to have easy to find one-click installations for
different branches, like one ConfigurationOf for desktop programing,
another for web programing, next one for ...
Those installations must be bullet-proof tested to work for each Pharo
version and tests can be done automatical
my 2c.
Pharo is not an IDE. It is a platform.
About whether we should focus on Desktop or Web.
My answer: both.
Web main purpose was (and i think it will stay like that in a future) to
deliver a content to user(s).
A desktop is different: it is to provide a working place.
There's a third niche,
Why not..
How many branches does ubuntu have. I am not talking of whole of linux. But
all of them will feed from the base and perhaps specialize in ways reqd.
On Feb 23, 2012, at 10:50 PM, Milan Mimica wrote:
> On 23 February 2012 07:58, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
>
> well take what you be
On 23 February 2012 07:58, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
>
> well take what you believe is important for you and help us.
>
I will.
Question: do you expect Pharo to fork into more specialized branches?
I would like if that happened.
--
Milan Mimica
http://sparklet.sf.net
S, Milan Mimica piše:
> > Pharo is an IDE. IDEs don't run on tablets.
>
> But open your eyes. Pharo is much more than an ide.
> Exactly. And Squeak is even more than Pharo, but more is not better. I
> think we should focus and there is still too many opinions of what Pharo
> should be. S
Dear Janko
Am 21.02.12 13:07, schrieb Janko Mivšek:
Hi Chris,
Thank you very much for your experience report and I think I'm not alone
to like to hear from your more about what are your wishes as a manager
from the Pharo in the future. Because you are an "enterprise" (in a
positive meaning of t
Dear Andreas
Am 22.02.12 23:00, schrieb Andreas Wacknitz:
Am 22.02.2012 um 10:34 schrieb Janko Mivšek:
S, Christoph Wysseier piše:
Stéphane Ducasse:
I'm convinced that having support for multitouch event/ genie and
others works (for iPad = ) is important.
Without pretending to kno
On Feb 22, 2012, at 10:18 PM, Jimmie Houchin wrote:
> Hello Sudhakar,
>
> I totally agree. I believe we can build the future we want. And if we don't,
> we deserve to get what others provide or envision for us.
YES
YES
YES
and YES
> I believe we can deliver a better experience as a client,
On Feb 22, 2012, at 10:03 PM, Milan Mimica wrote:
> On 22 February 2012 21:44, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
>
> > Pharo is an IDE. IDEs don't run on tablets.
>
> But open your eyes. Pharo is much more than an ide.
>
> Exactly. And Squeak is even more than Pharo, but more is not better. I think
>
"Web technologies bring some advantages in the software life cycle, mainly
distribution."
Very succint. Not to deprecate a great technical development over the
years, that makes even complete non techies capable of using the computer,
which desktop GUI does not enable easily, applet was a compromi
Thanks Sven, you inject me the desire of put hands on the stuff asap, but
unfortunately, need to end other things first (business related things I
mean).
Thanks really!
2012/2/22 Sven Van Caekenberghe
>
> --
> Sven Van Caekenberghe
> http://stfx.eu
> Smalltalk is the Red Pill
>
>
>
>
> On 22 Fe
--
Sven Van Caekenberghe
http://stfx.eu
Smalltalk is the Red Pill
On 22 Feb 2012, at 22:04, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
>> Hi Norbert!
>>
>> Yes, I know that the situation is better with Zinc (I checked the code and
>> really look nice and simple to understand). I only mentioned XMLRPC as a
>>
hehe, well, I say in the sense that it's greatly possible that 1.4 is
released BEFORE I can even write a single line of the new xmlrpc... :)
2012/2/22 Norbert Hartl
>
>
> Am 22.02.2012 um 22:06 schrieb Germán Arduino :
>
>
>
> 2012/2/22 Stéphane Ducasse
>
>>
>> > Now I code in 1.4 most of my ti
Am 22.02.2012 um 10:34 schrieb Janko Mivšek:
> S, Christoph Wysseier piše:
>
>> Stéphane Ducasse:
>
>>> I'm convinced that having support for multitouch event/ genie and
>>> others works (for iPad = ) is important.
>
>> Without pretending to know the future, IMHO standalone apps for tablet
Am 22.02.2012 um 22:06 schrieb Germán Arduino :
>
>
> 2012/2/22 Stéphane Ducasse
>
> > Now I code in 1.4 most of my time.
>
> Thanks, this is a response to me :)
Don't forget that Steph is the counter type of your potential audience. So
don't follow him but do the opposite :)
Norbert
Hello Sudhakar,
I totally agree. I believe we can build the future we want. And if we
don't, we deserve to get what others provide or envision for us.
I believe we can deliver a better experience as a client, and a better
developer experience as a server. I personally don't know of anything
On Feb 22, 2012, at 10:02 PM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
> what kind of devices are using raspberry pi?
No devices. It's a board (no case) of a small linux computer for
$35. The board surface has the size of a credit card.
http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/382
> I would like to see the physical
2012/2/22 Stéphane Ducasse
>
> > Now I code in 1.4 most of my time.
>
> Thanks, this is a response to me :)
2012/2/22 Norbert Hartl
> Hi Norbert!
>
> Yes, I know that the situation is better with Zinc (I checked the code and
> really look nice and simple to understand). I only mentioned XMLRPC as a
> mere example of how the things become unusable so fast.
>
> Talking about this what you guys consider b
>
>
>
> Hi Norbert!
>
> Yes, I know that the situation is better with Zinc (I checked the code and
> really look nice and simple to understand). I only mentioned XMLRPC as a mere
> example of how the things become unusable so fast.
>
> Talking about this what you guys consider best, migrate
On 22 February 2012 21:44, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
>
> > Pharo is an IDE. IDEs don't run on tablets.
>
> But open your eyes. Pharo is much more than an ide.
>
Exactly. And Squeak is even more than Pharo, but more is not better. I
think we should focus and there is still too many opinions of what
what kind of devices are using raspberry pi?
I would like to see the physical size of such devices.
On Feb 22, 2012, at 6:30 PM, S Krish wrote:
> tiny core linux or put it on top of Raspberry Pi.. I am sure for a 128 MB
> RAM, 256MB Pharo can offer the best experience.
Am 22.02.2012 um 21:41 schrieb Germán Arduino :
>
>
> 2012/2/22 Norbert Hartl
>
> Am 22.02.2012 um 13:28 schrieb Germán Arduino:
>
>> Example: xmlrpc died before to born, worked only in 1.1.1, now I must find
>> time to update it to zinc and 1.3 but with the fear that again will not work
On Feb 22, 2012, at 1:58 PM, Norbert Hartl wrote:
>
> Am 22.02.2012 um 13:28 schrieb Germán Arduino:
>
>> Example: xmlrpc died before to born, worked only in 1.1.1, now I must find
>> time to update it to zinc and 1.3 but with the fear that again will not work
>> in 1.4.
>
> What are your bu
> Pharo is an IDE. IDEs don't run on tablets.
I hope to prove you the inverse.
Because with a small core without browser you can build what you want.
Way before the iPad, tansel ervasas sent to me a small squeak image with a
simulation for a device
ordering pizza and it was with pop up keys like
Thanks! I will try to start as soon as I can.
Germán.
2012/2/22 S Krish
> I am willing to contribute to XMLRPC.. Hopefully will integrate a full
> fledged interface between Pharo and Groovy and have it run load and atleast
> a complete JDBC optimized interface and a pure XMLRpc bridge to the o
2012/2/22 Norbert Hartl
>
> Am 22.02.2012 um 13:28 schrieb Germán Arduino:
>
> Example: xmlrpc died before to born, worked only in 1.1.1, now I must find
> time to update it to zinc and 1.3 but with the fear that again will not
> work in 1.4.
>
>
> What are your building blocks except http and xm
On Feb 22, 2012, at 9:38 AM, Christoph Wysseier wrote:
> Dear Stef
>
> Am 22.02.12 08:32, schrieb Stéphane Ducasse:
>> I'm convinced that having support for multitouch event/ genie and others
>> works (for iPad = ) is important.
>
> Without pretending to know the future, IMHO standalone ap
HI Sven, yes I think the same, as soon as I can find a bit of time will
port it and will ask any doubt.
Thanks for the help offer!
2012/2/22 Sven Van Caekenberghe
> Germán,
>
> On 22 Feb 2012, at 13:28, Germán Arduino wrote:
>
> > Example: xmlrpc died before to born, worked only in 1.1.1, now I
Sure will take it up .. and post back if I need anything.
On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 11:22 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote:
>
> On 22 Feb 2012, at 17:52, S Krish wrote:
>
> > I am willing to contribute to XMLRPC.. Hopefully will integrate a full
> fledged interface between Pharo and Groovy and have
On 22 Feb 2012, at 17:52, S Krish wrote:
> I am willing to contribute to XMLRPC.. Hopefully will integrate a full
> fledged interface between Pharo and Groovy and have it run load and atleast a
> complete JDBC optimized interface and a pure XMLRpc bridge to the outer
> world..
Great !
> So
> 3. Event model was so oldfashioned, that Adobe decided to drop the VM.
Adobe would probably _like_ to drop the VM but that's unlikely...ever.
They stopped the dual development approach: They have a VM for the
hardware, and stopped trying to provide a VM for every BROWSER on
every piece of hard
Pharo can and does run beautifully on much lesser hardware requirement than
Android does.
Combine Pharo with tiny core linux or put it on top of Raspberry Pi.. I am
sure for a 128 MB RAM, 256MB Pharo can offer the best experience.
We may have a need to optimize the performance etc.. but that is w
I am willing to contribute to XMLRPC.. Hopefully will integrate a full
fledged interface between Pharo and Groovy and have it run load and atleast
a complete JDBC optimized interface and a pure XMLRpc bridge to the outer
world..
So will have inputs and ability to ensure that it stays in shape ahea
Dear Esteban
Am 22.02.12 13:11, schrieb Esteban Lorenzano:
Hi,
2012/2/22 Christoph Wysseier mailto:c.wysse...@netstyle.ch>>
Am 22.02.12 08:32, schrieb Stéphane Ducasse:
I'm convinced that having support for multitouch event/ genie
and others works (for iPad = ) is import
Am 22.02.2012 um 13:28 schrieb Germán Arduino:
> Example: xmlrpc died before to born, worked only in 1.1.1, now I must find
> time to update it to zinc and 1.3 but with the fear that again will not work
> in 1.4.
What are your building blocks except http and xml? If you were working on 1.1.1
Germán,
On 22 Feb 2012, at 13:28, Germán Arduino wrote:
> Example: xmlrpc died before to born, worked only in 1.1.1, now I must find
> time to update it to zinc and 1.3 but with the fear that again will not work
> in 1.4.
I think I said it before (but I can't remember it must be a long time ag
2012/2/21 Stéphane Ducasse
> Hi janko
>
> > More polishing and boring bug hunting tasks therefore and just a bit
> > less fundamental rewritings like compiler etc.
>
> Did you ever look at one bug entry?
> You see the bug entry does not magically empty itself. There are people
> like me and marcu
Hi,
El 22/02/2012, a las 8:07a.m., Denis Kudriashov escribió:
> 2012/2/22 Christoph Wysseier
> Dear Stef
>
> Am 22.02.12 08:32, schrieb Stéphane Ducasse:
>
> I'm convinced that having support for multitouch event/ genie and others
> works (for iPad = ) is important.
>
> Without pretendin
2012/2/22 Christoph Wysseier
> Dear Stef
>
> Am 22.02.12 08:32, schrieb Stéphane Ducasse:
>
> I'm convinced that having support for multitouch event/ genie and others
>> works (for iPad = ) is important.
>>
>
> Without pretending to know the future, IMHO standalone apps for tablets
> and mob
Dear Hilaire
Am 22.02.12 10:38, schrieb Hilaire Fernandes:
Sometime I wonder if writting application like DrGeo could be
reasonnably doeable with html5?
Without knowing your feature set in detail, but have a look for instance
at the following SVG editor:
-> http://code.google.com/p/svg-edit/
2012/2/22 Tobias Pape
>
> Am 2012-02-22 um 10:30 schrieb Milan Mimica:
>
> > Pharo is an IDE. IDEs don't run on tablets.
>
> Then see the lively kernel…
>
Another example could be WaveMaker, a complete development IDE running in
the browser.
2012/2/22 Hilaire Fernandes
> Le 22/02/2012 10:34, Janko Mivšek a écrit :
>
> Whatever, html5 are really desktop application downloaded at runtime. We
> are still moving in circle since 40 years.
>
>
Full, full agree!
Am 22.02.2012 10:31 schrieb "Milan Mimica" :
>
> Pharo is an IDE. IDEs don't run on tablets.
You're right so far. Principally IDEs best run on desktop computers.
I tried several new concepts to develop on tablet (Bluetooth keyboard,
mouse) during travels:
Jens Moenig's ELEMENTS:
http://www.chirp.
On 2/22/12, Hilaire Fernandes wrote:
> Le 22/02/2012 10:34, Janko Mivšek a écrit :
>> I agree completely that web based techologies are where we should go
>> because we have advantage here with Smalltalk while for any kind of GUI
>> we are off. Including for mobile apps. Making a web app and packa
Am 22.02.12 10:34, schrieb Janko Mivšek:
It is better to concentrate improving Look&Feel (User Experience) of
development tools and overal stability of Pharo including fundamental
redesign of internals, those which cause instabilities. To prepare Pharo
for server based deployments and for web ser
Am 2012-02-22 um 10:30 schrieb Milan Mimica:
> Pharo is an IDE. IDEs don't run on tablets.
Then see the lively kernel…
Le 22/02/2012 10:34, Janko Mivšek a écrit :
> I agree completely that web based techologies are where we should go
> because we have advantage here with Smalltalk while for any kind of GUI
> we are off. Including for mobile apps. Making a web app and package it
> as a standalone mobile app is much
Hi Guido
Am 22.02.12 10:06, schrieb Guido Stepken:
Tablet apps will very soon even dominate the desktop market!
I agree!
> This increasing market with hundreds of millions hardware units is
> completely lost for Smalltalkers, once again.
I disagree! ;)
It might be lost for standalone applica
S, Christoph Wysseier piše:
> Stéphane Ducasse:
>> I'm convinced that having support for multitouch event/ genie and
>> others works (for iPad = ) is important.
> Without pretending to know the future, IMHO standalone apps for tablets
> and mobile will disappear over time. Out of my perspect
Pharo is an IDE. IDEs don't run on tablets.
On 22 February 2012 10:06, Guido Stepken wrote:
> Hi Christoph!
>
> Jobs dropped FLASH for several important reasons:
>
> 1. Too much polling in there. Processor load was high, eating up batteries.
> 2. Flash games with "onMouseOver" can't run on table
Hi Christoph!
Jobs dropped FLASH for several important reasons:
1. Too much polling in there. Processor load was high, eating up batteries.
2. Flash games with "onMouseOver" can't run on tablets.
3. Event model was so oldfashioned, that Adobe decided to drop the VM.
FLASH was the most successful
Dear Stef
Am 22.02.12 08:32, schrieb Stéphane Ducasse:
I'm convinced that having support for multitouch event/ genie and others works
(for iPad = ) is important.
Without pretending to know the future, IMHO standalone apps for tablets
and mobile will disappear over time. Out of my perspec
"mouseOverHandler" is *absolutely* depreciated everywhere, iOS, Android AND
Windows 8 ... tablet useforms dominate Desktop useforms more and more.
just my 2ct.
Am 22.02.2012 08:32 schrieb "Stéphane Ducasse" :
> >
> > People might mistakenly think that we wanna change things solely for
> > the sak
>
> People might mistakenly think that we wanna change things solely for
> the sake of change. But it is not like that.
> We need these changes , need to fix our infrastructure, because
> without solid basement you cannot build anything good.
>
Thanks Igor. Let us take a concrete example.
I'm co
True.
Again, there are two opposing forces: compatibility versus improvement.
Sometimes it is very hard or even impossible to improve system without
breaking compatibility.
What i don't see, is how things which lying in front of us are related
to any sort of
academia research. They are completely
On Feb 21, 2012, at 3:34 PM, Dave Mason wrote:
>
> On Feb 21, 2012, at 07:07, Janko Mivšek wrote:
>
>> - more stability,
>
> This is the biggest thing for me. I'm trying to get my Analysis of
> Algorithms students to recognise and value a powerful environment like Pharo
> Smalltalk, but som
Hi janko
> More polishing and boring bug hunting tasks therefore and just a bit
> less fundamental rewritings like compiler etc.
Did you ever look at one bug entry?
You see the bug entry does not magically empty itself. There are people like me
and marcus
and a couple of others that are looking
yeah I agree that would be great if a debugger would popup there...
On 2012-02-21, at 15:34, Dave Mason wrote:
>
> On Feb 21, 2012, at 07:07, Janko Mivšek wrote:
>
>> - more stability,
>
> This is the biggest thing for me. I'm trying to get my Analysis of
> Algorithms students to recognise a
On Feb 21, 2012, at 07:07, Janko Mivšek wrote:
> - more stability,
This is the biggest thing for me. I'm trying to get my Analysis of Algorithms
students to recognise and value a powerful environment like Pharo Smalltalk,
but some of them are experiencing so many crashes that they've taken to
Hi Chris,
Thank you very much for your experience report and I think I'm not alone
to like to hear from your more about what are your wishes as a manager
from the Pharo in the future. Because you are an "enterprise" (in a
positive meaning of that word) Pharo user.
Maybe let me start asking you an
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