apologies if this is a tangent but why is what's identified as
"extensional" particular to health-care? "Who" said/observed/found/acted
"What", "When" and "Where" is surely a general notion. Does it need a
health-care model or ontology? Yes, particular findings or observations or
procedures can be
On Tue, 2012-08-21 at 15:11 -0700, peter.hend...@kp.org wrote:
> [ . . . ] Can you use RDF in a closed world way when ever you want,
> or is it only safe when the model you're dealing with, like FHIR,
> really is known to be closed world?
>
I think so, provided that you understand that you are m
At Kaiser we use SNOMED subsumption to automatically generate preference
lists for different specialties, and to pre populate (only after humans
edit the list) work flow for chemo therapy.
But for outcomes research or quality reporting it has real value too.
Using both SQL and subsumption you
That's actually quite interesting and clarifies a foggy little place in my
head. It does bring up the question of "who knows when to use the RDF
they find as Open or Closed world?. It might be something that only
depends on what you, the user, want out of it. I don't know if you'd
always hav
Totally agree. The more we can show people the advantages of SW
representations, the better. Eric and I are trying to come up with a "message
and explanation" with a couple of really concrete examples to address the
question of "isn't this just another silver bullet?" Hopefully we can make
s
Hi Peter,
Very nice observations! I wholeheartedly agree with your basic thesis,
but I would quibble with one off-hand remark . . .
On Tue, 2012-08-21 at 08:47 -0700, peter.hend...@kp.org wrote:
> Sorry I didn't make the meeting but just looked at the minutes.
>
> We (Kaiser) do use the Ontol
We probably agree.
I mostly object to models where I see words like "Systolic Blood Pressure"
in-lined in the OO model. I object because if that model intends to use
SNOMED and map to the same thing, then the "thing" is defined twice in the model, in the in-lined OO part and also
in the SNOME
Great discussion in the meeting today and on the email list: BRIDG/OWL,
FHIR/SW, Extensional and Intensional /" design-time" and "run-time" models,
... a lot of interesting things seems to converge for how to model patient
data.
At the same time I think it would be useful to explore a RDF impleme
Hi Peter,
Just my two cents: Having read your white paper, I find your
separation into the "What", i.e. the terminological model
(intensional), and the "When, Who, Where, Why", i.e. the
context/information model (extensional), very useful and intuitive.
In y
I'll see you soon in Baltimore.
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Thanks Peter. I'm looking forward to reading your paper.
Take care,
charlie
From: peter.hend...@kp.org [peter.hend...@kp.org]
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2012 1:11 PM
To: Mead, Charlie (NIH/NCI) [C]
Cc: e...@w3.org; helena.d...@deri.org; kerstin.l.forsb...@
Actually design-time and run-time is even better than what I said. Let's
use these words.
The first "white paper" describing the problem is here.
http://www.ringholm.com/docs/05000_Clinical_Models_and_SNOMED.htm
The second one that describes the solution called "Semantic Node Labeling"
is bei
Hi Peter --
Agree --and I think I understand...:-).
Might we refer to them as "design-time" and "run-time"? Or does that gloss
over some of the important distinctions you are trying to point out?
Any materials on this topic you could distribute?
Thanks --
charlie
Hi Peter and All,
I think RIM (in XML format coreSchemas) can be represented in OWL (as an
Intensional view or OWA), however problem may arise due to local RMIMs.
In my work so far I see them as a problem of integrating global
(OWL-RIM) and local ontologies (OWL-RMIM). As Charlie said, main use of
We are in fact talking about two different things.
If you are talking about how to more easily create new FHIR resources, and
to assure their correct mapping to the RIM then my points are not
relevant.
It is my view that clinical models can gain a lot of functionality by the
addition of semant
Hi Peter --
I haven't read the notes of today's discussion, but since I was the one that
summarized the relationship between FHIR and OWL/RDF, I'd like to try and
clarify things. As it sounds like you know FHIR pretty well, let me start by
saying that the original motivation behind seeing to w
Sorry I didn't make the meeting but just looked at the minutes.
We (Kaiser) do use the Ontology features of SNOMED extensively and have a
different take on how it should be done.
Specifically we would not advocate for example, putting FHIR in RDF or
OWL. What we've fount to be simple, useful,
The following answers have been successfully submitted to 'Semantic Web
Summer School for Health Care/Life Sciences 27-30 Aug 2012' (Semantic Web
Health Care and Life Sciences Interest Group) for Tom Morris.
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