[issue34605] Avoid master/slave terminology

miss-islington added the comment: New changeset 43d812692f9207520e1169ff88cd8d6c59cc4804 by Miss Islington (bot) in branch '3.6': [3.7] bpo-34279: Synchronize regrtest with master (GH-10800) https://github.com/python/cpython/commit/43d812692f9207520e1169ff88cd8d6c59cc4804 --

[issue34605] Avoid master/slave terminology

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[issue34605] Avoid master/slave terminology

STINNER Victor added the comment: New changeset 8a73cac618a050f4e74eb38ff43e48d9957a6dec by Victor Stinner in branch '3.7': [3.7] bpo-34279: Synchronize regrtest with master (GH-10800) https://github.com/python/cpython/commit/8a73cac618a050f4e74eb38ff43e48d9957a6dec --

[issue34605] Avoid master/slave terminology

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[issue34605] Avoid master/slave terminology

Change by Socob <206a8...@opayq.com>: -- nosy: +Socob ___ Python tracker ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe:

[issue34605] Avoid master/slave terminology

Change by Gabriel Marko : -- nosy: -suic ___ Python tracker ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe:

[issue34605] Avoid master/slave terminology

Gabriel Marko added the comment: @serhiy.storchaka: IMO, the problem isn't the master/slave terminology itself but the way how the changes were introduced (no discussion) and the justification ("diversity reasons"???). IMO this is the next level: https://bugs.python.org/issue34660 and I

[issue34605] Avoid master/slave terminology

Serhiy Storchaka added the comment: News about this issue published on different resources are exaggerated. Actually the controversial changes were rejected. All merged changes look correct to me, they fix outdated terminology ("worker" instead of "buildslave" is now the official term in

[issue34605] Avoid master/slave terminology

Mariatta Wijaya added the comment: No further discussion needed. This issue has been closed and resolved. Thanks Victor for the PRs. -- nosy: +Mariatta ___ Python tracker

[issue34605] Avoid master/slave terminology

Gabriel Marko added the comment: The discussion under GH PRs is now censored. What will be the next level? -- ___ Python tracker ___

[issue34605] Avoid master/slave terminology

Change by Giampaolo Rodola' : -- nosy: +giampaolo.rodola ___ Python tracker ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe:

[issue34605] Avoid master/slave terminology

miss-islington added the comment: New changeset fa7dfae3171914f91d629a64c6e829788b485b06 by Miss Islington (bot) (Victor Stinner) in branch 'master': bpo-34605: Replace "pliant children" with "helpers" (GH-9195)

[issue34605] Avoid master/slave terminology

Change by STINNER Victor : -- pull_requests: +8631 ___ Python tracker ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe:

[issue34605] Avoid master/slave terminology

Guido van Rossum added the comment: I'm closing this now. Three out of four of Victor's PRs have been merged. The fourth one should not be merged because it reflects the underlying terminology of UNIX ptys. There's a remaining quibble about "pliant children" -> "helpers" but that can be

[issue34605] Avoid master/slave terminology

Antoine Pitrou added the comment: Indeed, "master" in itself is used in a wide range of contexts and can have quite positive connotations (I master Python programming). The word "slave" I agree with removing if used gratuitously. If its use reflects an established convention which we do not

[issue34605] Avoid master/slave terminology

Raymond Hettinger added the comment: Mostly, I don't think these changes should be made, particularly in cases where "slave" isn't mentioned at all. The word "master" is used in many contexts where master/slave doesn't apply (such as "master key"). Also, I think the PR disrespects all

[issue34605] Avoid master/slave terminology

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[issue34605] Avoid master/slave terminology

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[issue34605] Avoid master/slave terminology

Stefan Krah added the comment: Trying to remove myself from the nosy list again (I know that the interface sometimes surprisingly adds/removes persons). -- ___ Python tracker

[issue34605] Avoid master/slave terminology

Berker Peksag added the comment: Personally, I find parent/child more descriptive if it can be used in the same context with master/slave, so I'm in favor of replacing master/slave with parent/child where applicable. However, I agree that the code changes in PR 9100 are a bit excessive. It

[issue34605] Avoid master/slave terminology

Gabriel Marko added the comment: @cheryl.sabella let me challenge some points in your arguments: > Based on that, I don't think it's fair to blame Victor for bringing it up for > discussion. Ok, but where was the discussion? @vstinner didn't even make a point and some of the PRs were

[issue34605] Avoid master/slave terminology

Stefan Krah added the comment: I commented here to explain the master <-> view terminology of memoryview. If anyone wants to change that, please open a separate issue and add me as the author to the nosy list. -- ___ Python tracker

[issue34605] Avoid master/slave terminology

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[issue34605] Avoid master/slave terminology

Ammar Askar added the comment: Most of the opposition seems to be against a blanket replacing of all master and slave usages, which seems fairly reasonable to me. For example, I'm all for the libregrtest change since it conveys the meaning just as well and is an internal tool. However,

[issue34605] Avoid master/slave terminology

Cheryl Sabella added the comment: This is certainly a topic that generates a lot of opinions both ways, not just here, but on many other projects. Based on that, I don't think it's fair to blame Victor for bringing it up for discussion. This is and has been an industry discussion for many

[issue34605] Avoid master/slave terminology

Gabriel Marko added the comment: @mcepl: I completely agree with you that we shouldn't waste time with this. I would be better not to dig into the discussion about "master-slave" terminology. IMO we don't even need to go into that as the problem here is more substantial: This case can

[issue34605] Avoid master/slave terminology

Matej Cepl added the comment: Guys, really, don't we have anything better to do with your time than this silliness? Even if the terminology would be used in the strictest and most brutal meaning, i.e., slave must mindlessly follow orders of its master, there is nothing of approval of the

[issue34605] Avoid master/slave terminology

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[issue34605] Avoid master/slave terminology

Gabriel Marko added the comment: @vstinner: > For diversity reasons, it would be nice to try to avoid "master" and "slave" > terminology which can be associated to slavery. This is too vague. Define what "diversity reasons" are and elaborate your point. Referring to some online discussions

[issue34605] Avoid master/slave terminology

Steven D'Aprano added the comment: I strongly disagree with this as a general principle. "Master/slave" is a powerful, obvious metaphor which works well and is not the same as parent/child, server/client or employer/worker. In fact, in the BDSM subcultures, "master/slave" can have

[issue34605] Avoid master/slave terminology

Stefan Krah added the comment: I'm using "master" in memoryview because of the audio connotation ("the source from which all copies will be produced"): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_mastering The ManagedBufferObject is literally the source from which all views are produced.

[issue34605] Avoid master/slave terminology

Terry J. Reedy added the comment: Having said that, there are situations where words are used confusingly or inappropriately, and better choices are available. (I am sometimes confused, for instance, by the use of 'client' and 'server'.) In such situations, change can be justified without

[issue34605] Avoid master/slave terminology

Terry J. Reedy added the comment: To me, there is nothing wrong with the word 'master', as such. I mastered Python to become a master of Python. Purging Python of 'master' seems ill-conceived. The word 'slave' is different matter to me. In tk and tkinter, the 'parent' and 'master' of a

[issue34605] Avoid master/slave terminology

Matthew Barnett added the comment: Not all uses of the word "master" are associated with slavery, e.g. "master craftsman", "master copy", "master file table". I think it's best to avoid use of master/slave where practicable, but other uses of "master" are not necessarily a problem.

[issue34605] Avoid master/slave terminology

Larry Hastings added the comment: > > Have there been any actual complaints? > Yes, but sadly they are private. I'm not super-excited by the idea that Python has to change its behavior based on secret comments. Python has traditionally had a very open governance model where all discussions

[issue34605] Avoid master/slave terminology

STINNER Victor added the comment: > The Django PR is an unreadable infinitely-long page of miserable arguing. So > the context doesn't help much. In short, some people associate the words "master" and "slave" to slavery. To enhance the diversity in the Python community, I suggest to try to

[issue34605] Avoid master/slave terminology

STINNER Victor added the comment: > Have there been any actual complaints? Yes, but sadly they are private. -- ___ Python tracker ___

[issue34605] Avoid master/slave terminology

Larry Hastings added the comment: As a counter-example: A quick grep finds 555 occurrences of the word "kill" in CPython master. Everybody knows killing is bad and using the term might upset certain people. Yet I would not support expunging the word "kill" from Python. --

[issue34605] Avoid master/slave terminology

Larry Hastings added the comment: I'm a little surprised by this. It's not like slavery was acceptable when these computer science terms were coined and it's only comparatively recently that they've gone out of fashion. On the other hand, there are some areas in computer software where

[issue34605] Avoid master/slave terminology

STINNER Victor added the comment: New changeset 7e610bcdf128f61b925654e4fa80fbac83537d0e by Victor Stinner in branch 'master': bpo-34605: childs => children (GH-9102) https://github.com/python/cpython/commit/7e610bcdf128f61b925654e4fa80fbac83537d0e --

[issue34605] Avoid master/slave terminology

Change by STINNER Victor : -- pull_requests: +8556 ___ Python tracker ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe:

[issue34605] Avoid master/slave terminology

STINNER Victor added the comment: New changeset 5e922658fb55734bf8b4c6246033ea93af172ff7 by Victor Stinner in branch 'master': bpo-34605: Avoid master/slave terms (GH-9101) https://github.com/python/cpython/commit/5e922658fb55734bf8b4c6246033ea93af172ff7 --

[issue34605] Avoid master/slave terminology

Karthikeyan Singaravelan added the comment: Just want to add that it's a constant source of problem with respect to Redis and antirez wrote a detailed blog post about it yesterday : http://antirez.com/news/122 . It causes a lot of energy and emotional drain when issues like this get to

[issue34605] Avoid master/slave terminology

STINNER Victor added the comment: > bpo-34605, libregrtest: Rename --slaveargs to --worker-args (GH-9099) I don't think that this change should be backported to 3.7 and older, since it *might* break the backward compatibility. -- ___ Python

[issue34605] Avoid master/slave terminology

STINNER Victor added the comment: New changeset 012f5b968a738b15ae9b40c499a1c0778b0615a9 by Victor Stinner in branch 'master': bpo-34605, libregrtest: Rename --slaveargs to --worker-args (GH-9099) https://github.com/python/cpython/commit/012f5b968a738b15ae9b40c499a1c0778b0615a9 --

[issue34605] Avoid master/slave terminology

STINNER Victor added the comment: (Oops, I didn't want to put so many people in the nosy list, sorry about the spam.) -- nosy: -Alex.Willmer, asvetlov, barry, docs@python, dstufft, eric.araujo, ezio.melotti, koobs, larry, mrabarnett, ned.deily, paul.moore, r.david.murray,

[issue34605] Avoid master/slave terminology

STINNER Victor added the comment: Ok, with these 3 PRs, I should have replaced most usages of master and slave terms. -- ___ Python tracker ___

[issue34605] Avoid master/slave terminology

Change by STINNER Victor : -- components: -2to3 (2.x to 3.x conversion tool), Argument Clinic, Build, Cross-Build, Demos and Tools, Distutils, Documentation, Extension Modules, FreeBSD, IDLE, IO, Installation, Library (Lib), Regular Expressions, SSL, Tests, Tkinter, Unicode,

[issue34605] Avoid master/slave terminology

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[issue34605] Avoid master/slave terminology

Change by Yury Selivanov : -- components: -asyncio nosy: -yselivanov ___ Python tracker ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list

[issue34605] Avoid master/slave terminology

STINNER Victor added the comment: nis module contains the error message: NisError("No NIS master found for any map"), but libnis has a yp_master() function, it's no like Python picked this name. I suggest to keep "master" here to keep Python consistent with libnis. And "NIP master" gives

[issue34605] Avoid master/slave terminology

STINNER Victor added the comment: sqlite3.dump._iterdump() access to the "sqlite_master" table Hum, I don't think that Python chose the name of this table. This issue should be addressed in SQLite, not in Python. -- ___ Python tracker

[issue34605] Avoid master/slave terminology

STINNER Victor added the comment: In the C API, PyMemoryViewObject has a mbuf.master attribute, Include/memoryview.h: --- typedef struct { PyObject_HEAD int flags; /* state flags */ Py_ssize_t exports; /* number of direct memoryview exports */ Py_buffer master; /*

[issue34605] Avoid master/slave terminology

STINNER Victor added the comment: nntplib.NNTP() has a slave() method, but this method sends a "SLAVE" command to the NNTP server. Changing that would require to modify the NNTP protocol, that's out of the scope of this issue... RFC 977 "Network News Transfer Protocol" (NNTP) Section 3.12:

[issue34605] Avoid master/slave terminology

STINNER Victor added the comment: Tkinter and IDLE are full of "master" variables: master: parent for widgets. It seems to be a keep concept of Tkinter windows. -- ___ Python tracker

[issue34605] Avoid master/slave terminology

STINNER Victor added the comment: The doctest module has doctest.master symbol: --- # For backward compatibility, a global instance of a DocTestRunner # class, updated by testmod. master = None --- I'm not sure about changing this one. Here there is no slave, so it's less confusing. But

[issue34605] Avoid master/slave terminology

Ammar Askar added the comment: The libregrtest change looks good but I disagree on the pty/openpty changes. If you look at all the current Linux man pages and documentation, they follow the master/slave terminology. Generally, Python documentation for underlying os functions like fork, stat

[issue34605] Avoid master/slave terminology

STINNER Victor added the comment: IMHO it's ok to keep the "master" term for: * Git "master" branch * "webmaster" * "postmaster" To find all impacted files, I used the commend: git grep -i -E 'master|slave'|grep -v -E 'webmaster|postmaster|/blob/master/' --

[issue34605] Avoid master/slave terminology

Change by STINNER Victor : -- keywords: +patch pull_requests: +8553 stage: -> patch review ___ Python tracker ___ ___

[issue34605] Avoid master/slave terminology

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[issue34605] Avoid master/slave terminology

STINNER Victor added the comment: I'm working on patches to change that. -- ___ Python tracker ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing

[issue34605] Avoid master/slave terminology

Ammar Askar added the comment: Do you have examples of where this occurs? >From >https://github.com/python/cpython/search?p=1=master+slave_q=master+slave > I really only found the openpty function, and the man pages/argument names >there already use this terminology so it wouldn't make

[issue34605] Avoid master/slave terminology

New submission from STINNER Victor : For diversity reasons, it would be nice to try to avoid "master" and "slave" terminology which can be associated to slavery. For more context, see: * https://github.com/antirez/redis/issues/3185 * https://www.drupal.org/node/2275877 *