[python-committers] [RELEASED] Python 3.4.9rc1 and Python 3.5.6rc1 are now available

On behalf of the Python development community, I'm pleased to announce the availability of Python 3.4.9rc1 and Python 3.5.6rc1. Both Python 3.4 and 3.5 are in "security fixes only" mode.  Both versions only accept security fixes, not conventional bug fixes, and both releases are

Re: [python-committers] And Now for Something Completely Different

On 07/19/2018 04:47 PM, Victor Stinner wrote: or: Replace Dictatorship with Democracy. Hi, == Introduction: unjustified fears? == I see that many people are eager to replace the old governance based on a single BDFL with a new governance with a new BD(FL) and/or a council. My problem is that

[python-committers] And Now for Something Completely Different

or: Replace Dictatorship with Democracy. Hi, == Introduction: unjustified fears? == I see that many people are eager to replace the old governance based on a single BDFL with a new governance with a new BD(FL) and/or a council. My problem is that I don't see any clear definition of the roles of

Re: [python-committers] Proposal: an explicit, time-limited moratorium on finalizing any governance decisions

Please extend the deadline: next week, I will be at EuroPython (I don't think that I will have time to sit down and come up with something), and I'm (more or less) in holiday the whole month of August. Victor 2018-07-19 21:43 GMT+02:00 Antoine Pitrou : > > Le 19/07/2018 à 21:35, Carol Willing a

Re: [python-committers] Proposal: an explicit, time-limited moratorium on finalizing any governance decisions

On 19 July 2018 at 20:44, Brett Cannon wrote: > But the amount of discussion can be unbounded (considering people write PhD > theses on governance models and voting systems we could talk about this > stuff forever ;), so putting a schedule in place to help focus the > discussions can be

Re: [python-committers] Language moratorium

On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 10:24:17AM +0200, Victor Stinner wrote: > On of the reason which motivated Facebook and Instagram to migrate > from Python 2.7 directly to 3.5 was to get the new async and await > keywords. So new syntaxes can be the new "killer feature" of a > specific Python release, at

Re: [python-committers] Proposal: an explicit, time-limited moratorium on finalizing any governance decisions

Excerpts from Brett Cannon's message of 2018-07-19 12:44:23 -0700: > On Thu, 19 Jul 2018 at 11:52 Doug Hellmann wrote: > > > Excerpts from Antoine Pitrou's message of 2018-07-19 20:07:41 +0200: > > > > > > Le 19/07/2018 à 20:00, Carol Willing a écrit : > > > > I appreciate and respect the

Re: [python-committers] Language moratorium

On Thu, 19 Jul 2018 at 11:04 Barry Warsaw wrote: > On Jul 19, 2018, at 08:41, Brett Cannon wrote: > > > > Then we would have to solve our governance problem sooner rather than > later. But i don't think every Python release has to make a huge splash. > > The other option of course is to push

Re: [python-committers] Proposal: an explicit, time-limited moratorium on finalizing any governance decisions

On Thu, 19 Jul 2018 at 11:52 Doug Hellmann wrote: > Excerpts from Antoine Pitrou's message of 2018-07-19 20:07:41 +0200: > > > > Le 19/07/2018 à 20:00, Carol Willing a écrit : > > > I appreciate and respect the importance of these decisions. The dates > > > that I suggested, and I am not

Re: [python-committers] Proposal: an explicit, time-limited moratorium on finalizing any governance decisions

Le 19/07/2018 à 21:35, Carol Willing a écrit : >> My biggest concern is that dragging this on into the new year will result in more bikeshedding, more uncertainty, and less confidence in the developer community decision making ability. >>> >>> That's a fair point. But there's also

Re: [python-committers] Proposal: an explicit, time-limited moratorium on finalizing any governance decisions

> On Jul 19, 2018, at 11:52 AM, Doug Hellmann wrote: > > Excerpts from Antoine Pitrou's message of 2018-07-19 20:07:41 +0200: >> >> Le 19/07/2018 à 20:00, Carol Willing a écrit : >>> I appreciate and respect the importance of these decisions. The dates >>> that I suggested, and I am not

Re: [python-committers] Proposal: an explicit, time-limited moratorium on finalizing any governance decisions

Excerpts from Antoine Pitrou's message of 2018-07-19 20:07:41 +0200: > > Le 19/07/2018 à 20:00, Carol Willing a écrit : > > I appreciate and respect the importance of these decisions. The dates > > that I suggested, and I am not anchored to any of them, were not > > selected to rush or be hasty.

Re: [python-committers] An alternative governance model

On Jul 18, 2018, at 17:31, Alex Martelli via python-committers wrote: > Humans do so love to argue! > > No we don't! (cfr http://www.montypython.net/scripts/argument.php)... I guess that means we do love getting hit on the head… -Barry signature.asc Description: Message signed with OpenPGP

Re: [python-committers] Language moratorium

Le 19/07/2018 à 20:03, Barry Warsaw a écrit : > > If PEP 572 were the only new syntax for 3.8, then so be it. +1. Which means that: > The other option of course is to push the release date of Python 3.8 > back to accommodate the new governance structure. is basically unnecessary ;-) Regards

Re: [python-committers] Proposal: an explicit, time-limited moratorium on finalizing any governance decisions

Le 19/07/2018 à 20:00, Carol Willing a écrit : > I appreciate and respect the importance of these decisions. The dates > that I suggested, and I am not anchored to any of them, were not > selected to rush or be hasty. Instead, it was respect for our time > together (at least some of us) at the

Re: [python-committers] Language moratorium

On Jul 19, 2018, at 08:41, Brett Cannon wrote: > > Then we would have to solve our governance problem sooner rather than later. > But i don't think every Python release has to make a huge splash. The other option of course is to push the release date of Python 3.8 back to accommodate the new

Re: [python-committers] Proposal: an explicit, time-limited moratorium on finalizing any governance decisions

I appreciate and respect the importance of these decisions. The dates that I suggested, and I am not anchored to any of them, were not selected to rush or be hasty. Instead, it was respect for our time together (at least some of us) at the September sprint and to have all proposals on the table by

Re: [python-committers] Proposal: an explicit, time-limited moratorium on finalizing any governance decisions

On Jul 19, 2018, at 10:19, Terry Reedy wrote: > > On 7/19/2018 1:10 PM, Mariatta Wijaya wrote: >> On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 8:59 AM Brett Cannon > > wrote: >> So what about the following timelines: >> Oct 1: Deadline for people to come up with proposals of governance

Re: [python-committers] Proposal: an explicit, time-limited moratorium on finalizing any governance decisions

Le 19/07/2018 à 19:26, Carol Willing a écrit : > Would it be possible to have all proposals: > > - How to determine the governance structure (PEP 10 or other approval > process) > - The suggested governance structure > > submitted by AOE August 31, 2018? > > That would give everyone 40ish days

Re: [python-committers] Proposal: an explicit, time-limited moratorium on finalizing any governance decisions

On 7/19/2018 1:10 PM, Mariatta Wijaya wrote: On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 8:59 AM Brett Cannon > wrote: I had Carol's same worry that while it's great to have a "no sooner than" date, we also can't let this drag on and we have no "settle by" date, else we

Re: [python-committers] Proposal: an explicit, time-limited moratorium on finalizing any governance decisions

On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 8:59 AM Brett Cannon wrote: > > I had Carol's same worry that while it's great to have a "no sooner than" > date, we also can't let this drag on and we have no "settle by" date, else > we risk losing the faith of the community in our ability to come together > and make

Re: [python-committers] Proposal: an explicit, time-limited moratorium on finalizing any governance decisions

On Wed, Jul 18, 2018, 22:32 Carol Willing, wrote: > Thanks Ethan for clarifying. Totally cool if that is the case. > > On Wed, Jul 18, 2018, 10:19 PM Ethan Furman wrote: > >> On 07/18/2018 09:40 PM, Carol Willing wrote: >> > I am in favor of a time limit. Yet, October 1 seems a bit too long for

Re: [python-committers] Language moratorium

On Thu, Jul 19, 2018, 01:24 Victor Stinner, wrote: > Hi, > > 2018-07-18 18:11 GMT+02:00 Stefan Krah : > > Perhaps we could have one again, say for 12 months so we can figure > things > > out. Other Python implementations may welcome the moratorium so they can > > catch up. > > Python 3.8 has a

[python-committers] 3.4.9rc1 and 3.5.6rc1 slipping by one day to Thursday July 19 2018

I was working with Serhiy on fixing the documentation for some bytecodes in 3.5 (GH-8338) and time got away from me.  They'll both be out later today, Thursday July 19 2018. *yawn,* //arry/ ___ python-committers mailing list

Re: [python-committers] Proposal: an explicit, time-limited moratorium on finalizing any governance decisions

On 19/07/18 03:36, Nathaniel Smith wrote: [tl;dr: We need some ground rules, because uncertainty makes it hard to think straight. But if we get sucked into a complicated meta-debate about the ground rules then that defeats the purpose. My proposal for a Minimum Viable Ground Rule: let's all

Re: [python-committers] Proposal: an explicit, time-limited moratorium on finalizing any governance decisions

On 19 July 2018 at 08:33, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > > Le 19/07/2018 à 04:36, Nathaniel Smith a écrit : >> [tl;dr: We need some ground rules, because uncertainty makes it hard >> to think straight. But if we get sucked into a complicated meta-debate >> about the ground rules then that defeats the

Re: [python-committers] Language moratorium

Hi, 2018-07-18 18:11 GMT+02:00 Stefan Krah : > Perhaps we could have one again, say for 12 months so we can figure things > out. Other Python implementations may welcome the moratorium so they can > catch up. Python 3.8 has a new syntax for assignment expressions (PEP 572). A moratorium of 12

Re: [python-committers] Proposal: an explicit, time-limited moratorium on finalizing any governance decisions

On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 5:36 AM Nathaniel Smith wrote: > What would be a good date? The core sprint is coming up Sept. 10-14, > and this seems to be a likely topic of conversation there. And then > after the sprint, those who aren't present will need time to catch up > with any discussions that

Re: [python-committers] Proposal: an explicit, time-limited moratorium on finalizing any governance decisions

Le 19/07/2018 à 04:36, Nathaniel Smith a écrit : > [tl;dr: We need some ground rules, because uncertainty makes it hard > to think straight. But if we get sucked into a complicated meta-debate > about the ground rules then that defeats the purpose. My proposal for > a Minimum Viable Ground Rule:

Re: [python-committers] Proposal: an explicit, time-limited moratorium on finalizing any governance decisions

I’ll be a little disappointed to not have anything in place by the sprints, as most of my planned work was to get my PEPs accepted, but it seems we have a fairly sizable split within the group between the ~3 proposals so far (NBDFL, Council, delay), so under the circumstances I think it’s most