Re: [Python-Dev] converting the stdlib to str.format

2008-06-03 Thread Georg Brandl
Martin v. Löwis schrieb: In any case, I'm willing to give the TLC to convert the whole stdlib to str.format, so I just need your permission! wink Please don't - not before % is actually deprecated (which I hope won't happen until Python 4, with removal of % in Python 5, in the year when I

Re: [Python-Dev] converting the stdlib to str.format

2008-06-03 Thread Martin v. Löwis
In any case, I'm willing to give the TLC to convert the whole stdlib to str.format, so I just need your permission! wink Please don't - not before % is actually deprecated (which I hope won't happen until Python 4, with removal of % in Python 5, in the year when I retire, i.e. 2037). Regards,

Re: [Python-Dev] Missing checkin emails

2008-06-03 Thread Eric Smith
Barry Warsaw wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Jun 3, 2008, at 6:55 AM, Eric Smith wrote: Did some checkin emails get lost yesterday? I didn't see mail for a checkin of mine, r63895. Looking at http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-checkins/2008-June/date.html, it

Re: [Python-Dev] converting the stdlib to str.format

2008-06-03 Thread Guido van Rossum
On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 2:03 AM, Eric Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Georg Brandl wrote: Martin v. Löwis schrieb: In any case, I'm willing to give the TLC to convert the whole stdlib to str.format, so I just need your permission! wink Please don't - not before % is actually deprecated

Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-3000] Stabilizing the C API of 2.6 and 3.0

2008-06-03 Thread Guido van Rossum
On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 3:48 AM, Georg Brandl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Antoine Pitrou schrieb: Guido van Rossum guido at python.org writes: I'd prefer the 2.6 code base to stay true to 2.x, and the 3.0 code base start afresh where it makes sense. We should reindent more of the 3.0 code base

Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-3000] Stabilizing the C API of 2.6 and 3.0

2008-06-03 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 2008-06-03 01:09, Guido van Rossum wrote: I will freely admit that I haven't followed this thread in any detail, but if it were up to me, I'd have the 2.6 internal code use PyString (as both what the linker sees and what the human reads in the source code) and the 3.0 code use PyBytes for the

Re: [Python-Dev] converting the stdlib to str.format

2008-06-03 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Please don't - not before % is actually deprecated (which I hope won't happen until Python 4, with removal of % in Python 5, in the year when I retire, i.e. 2037). Now this is news to me -- was there a discussion that changed the lifetime expectancy of str.__mod__? I'd always supposed it

Re: [Python-Dev] Missing checkin emails

2008-06-03 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Does anyone know if we can force svn to resend the checkin notifications for that range? It also looks like r63862 and r63915 are missing. I haven't done an exhaustive analysis of what is and isn't present (I also don't know if it's normal for revisions to be missing). I just resent the

Re: [Python-Dev] Postponing the first betas

2008-06-03 Thread r.m.oudkerk
On 02/06/2008, Barry Warsaw [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: meantime, Guido said: I'd also like to see PEP 3138 (CJK-friendly repr()) and the pyprocessing PEP implemented by then, and perhaps some other small stuff. The pyprocessing unit tests crash with a fatal error when run on Linux with a debug

[Python-Dev] PEP 371: Additional Discussion

2008-06-03 Thread Jesse Noller
Per feedback from Guido, the python-dev list and others, I have sent in an updated version of PEP 371 - the inclusion of the pyprocessing module into the standard library. URL: http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0371/ New highlights: * The module will be renamed to multiprocessing * The API

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 371: Additional Discussion

2008-06-03 Thread Paul Moore
2008/6/3 Jesse Noller [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Per feedback from Guido, the python-dev list and others, I have sent in an updated version of PEP 371 - the inclusion of the pyprocessing module into the standard library. URL: http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0371/ New highlights: * The module

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 371: Additional Discussion

2008-06-03 Thread Raymond Hettinger
* The API will become PEP 8 compliant Doesn't that kill the intent that it's a drop-in replacement for threading? IMO, it is essential that the API match the theading module, PEP 8 be damned. Raymond ___ Python-Dev mailing list

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 371: Additional Discussion

2008-06-03 Thread Jesse Noller
What about also including a patch to fix the threading api to be pep 8 compliant? On Jun 3, 2008, at 5:43 PM, Raymond Hettinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * The API will become PEP 8 compliant Doesn't that kill the intent that it's a drop-in replacement for threading? IMO, it is essential

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 371: Additional Discussion

2008-06-03 Thread Benjamin Peterson
On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 5:02 PM, Jesse Noller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What about also including a patch to fix the threading api to be pep 8 compliant? I doubt that will be accepted because of the closeness threading has to Java's APIs. -- Cheers, Benjamin Peterson There's no place like

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 371: Additional Discussion

2008-06-03 Thread Jesse Noller
Also - we could leave in stubs to match the threading api - Guido, David Goodger and others really prefer not to continue the broken API of the threading API On Jun 3, 2008, at 5:43 PM, Raymond Hettinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * The API will become PEP 8 compliant Doesn't that kill the

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 371: Additional Discussion

2008-06-03 Thread Antoine Pitrou
Benjamin Peterson musiccomposition at gmail.com writes: On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 5:02 PM, Jesse Noller jnoller at gmail.com wrote: What about also including a patch to fix the threading api to be pep 8 compliant? I doubt that will be accepted because of the closeness threading has to Java's

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 371: Additional Discussion

2008-06-03 Thread Brett Cannon
On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 3:08 PM, Jesse Noller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Also - we could leave in stubs to match the threading api - Guido, David Goodger and others really prefer not to continue the broken API of the threading API +1 from me. Gives a transition plan for people to move over to

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 371: Additional Discussion

2008-06-03 Thread Benjamin Peterson
On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 5:08 PM, Jesse Noller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Also - we could leave in stubs to match the threading api - Guido, David Goodger and others really prefer not to continue the broken API of the threading API I agree that the threading the the pyprocessing APIs should be PEP

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 371: Additional Discussion

2008-06-03 Thread Brett Cannon
On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 3:53 PM, Benjamin Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 5:08 PM, Jesse Noller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Also - we could leave in stubs to match the threading api - Guido, David Goodger and others really prefer not to continue the broken API of the

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 371: Additional Discussion

2008-06-03 Thread Mike Klaas
On 3-Jun-08, at 3:53 PM, Benjamin Peterson wrote: On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 5:08 PM, Jesse Noller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Also - we could leave in stubs to match the threading api - Guido, David Goodger and others really prefer not to continue the broken API of the threading API I agree

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 371: Additional Discussion

2008-06-03 Thread Benjamin Peterson
On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 6:00 PM, Brett Cannon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 3:53 PM, Benjamin Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 5:08 PM, Jesse Noller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Also - we could leave in stubs to match the threading api - Guido, David

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 371: Additional Discussion

2008-06-03 Thread Guido van Rossum
I'm curious why people thing that strict API compatibility is important at all. In my view, having the APIs be similar is really helpful because it helps people quickly understand what you can do with the new module. But I honestly don't expect anyone to take an existing app using threading and

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 371: Additional Discussion

2008-06-03 Thread Raymond Hettinger
I think its a small disaster to have the APIs be almost the same but with trivial differences in spelling. PEP 8 is a nice guideline but it seems to have become an end in an of itself. The point of the PEP is to use consistency as a memory cue, but having two sets of method names that are

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 371: Additional Discussion

2008-06-03 Thread Raymond Hettinger
From: Mike Klaas [EMAIL PROTECTED] A cleaner way to effectuate the transition would be to leave the camelCase API in 2.6 (for both modules), switch to PEP 8 in py3k (for both modules) +1 That makes good sense. , and provide threading3k and multiprocessing3k modules in 2.6 that façade the

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 371: Additional Discussion

2008-06-03 Thread Greg Ewing
Benjamin Peterson wrote: I agree that the threading the the pyprocessing APIs should be PEP 8 compliant, but I think 2 APIs is almost worse than one wrong one. So change them both to be PEP 8 compliant, and leave aliases in both for existing code to use. -- Greg

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 371: Additional Discussion

2008-06-03 Thread Guido van Rossum
On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 6:48 PM, Raymond Hettinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think its a small disaster to have the APIs be almost the same but with trivial differences in spelling. Strong words -- and it now seems just your gut feelings against mine. I have come to trust mine quite a bit.

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 371: Additional Discussion

2008-06-03 Thread Guido van Rossum
On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 6:56 PM, Raymond Hettinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Mike Klaas [EMAIL PROTECTED] A cleaner way to effectuate the transition would be to leave the camelCase API in 2.6 (for both modules), switch to PEP 8 in py3k (for both modules) +1 That makes good sense. No.