Adam Olsen wrote:
> As a data point, firefox (when pointed at my home dir) DOES skip over
> garbage files.
>
>
That's not true. However, it looks like Firefox is actually broken.
Take a look at this screenshot:
firefox.png
That shows a directory with a folder that's not decodable in my utf-8
Adam Olsen wrote:
> A half-broken setup is still a broken setup. Eventually you have to
> tell people to stop screwing around and pick one encoding.
>
But it's not a broken setup. It's the way the world is because people
share things with each other.
> I doubt that UTF-16 is used very much (ot
On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 11:25 PM, Curt Hagenlocher wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 10:19 PM, Adam Olsen wrote:
>>
>> I doubt that UTF-16 is used very much (other than on windows).
>
> There's this other obscure platform called "Java"... ;)
Sorry, I should have said "for interchange". :)
(CPyth
On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 10:22 PM, Adam Olsen wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 6:55 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull
> wrote:
>> Unfortunately, even programmers experienced in I18N like Martin, and
>> those with intuition-that-has-the-force-of-law like Guido,
>> express deliberate disbelief on this point.
On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 10:19 PM, Adam Olsen wrote:
>
> I doubt that UTF-16 is used very much (other than on windows).
>
There's this other obscure platform called "Java"... ;)
--
Curt Hagenlocher
c...@hagenlocher.org
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Pytho
On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 10:41 PM, Toshio Kuratomi wrote:
> Adam Olsen wrote:
>> On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 6:55 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull
>> wrote:
>>> Unfortunately, even programmers experienced in I18N like Martin, and
>>> those with intuition-that-has-the-force-of-law like Guido,
>>> express delib
Adam Olsen wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 6:55 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull
> wrote:
>> Unfortunately, even programmers experienced in I18N like Martin, and
>> those with intuition-that-has-the-force-of-law like Guido,
>> express deliberate disbelief on this point. They say that filesystem
>> names
On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 6:55 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> Unfortunately, even programmers experienced in I18N like Martin, and
> those with intuition-that-has-the-force-of-law like Guido,
> express deliberate disbelief on this point. They say that filesystem
> names and environment variable v
Last month there was a discussion on Python-Dev regarding removal of
reference counting to remove the GIL. I hope you forgive me for continuing
the debate.
I think reference counting is a good feature. It prevents huge piles of
garbage from building up. It makes the interpreter run more smoothly.
Steve Holden writes:
> Ulrich Eckhardt writes:
> > What I'd just like some feedback on is the approach to return a
> > distinct type (neither a byte string nor a Unicode string) from
> > readdir().
This is presumably unacceptable on the grounds that it will break
existing code that does somet
>> The Python distribution comes with a Misc/gdbinit file
>
> Hum, do you really run *all* programs in gdb? Most of the time, you don't
> expect a crash (because you trust your softwares). You will have to try to
> reproduce the crash, but sometimes it's very hard (eg. Heisenbugs!).
You don't h
Nick Coghlan wrote:
Martin v. Löwis wrote:
I believe that's difficult when you previously merged from the trunk to
the py3k branch - the merged change to the svnmerge related properties
on the root directory gets in the way when svnmerge attempts to update
them on the maintenance branch.
That's
Martin v. Löwis wrote:
>> I believe that's difficult when you previously merged from the trunk to
>> the py3k branch - the merged change to the svnmerge related properties
>> on the root directory gets in the way when svnmerge attempts to update
>> them on the maintenance branch.
>>
>> That's what
On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 12:10 PM, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote:
>> Yeah, that's why I asked. I tried what Martin suggested with r67698 by
>> just saying I'd resolved the conflict, which added the single revision
>> I was merging from to the svnmerge-integrated property. It didn't add
>> the two origina
> Yeah, that's why I asked. I tried what Martin suggested with r67698 by
> just saying I'd resolved the conflict, which added the single revision
> I was merging from to the svnmerge-integrated property. It didn't add
> the two original revisions.
Can you elaborate? What are the "two original rev
> On Dec 11, 2008, at 12:12 AM, Martin v. Löwis wrote:
>> Several people already said (essentially) that: -1. I don't think such
>> code should be added to the Python core, no matter how smart or correct
>> it is.
>
>
> does your -1 apply only to attempts to resume execution after SIGSEGV,
> or a
> I believe that's difficult when you previously merged from the trunk to
> the py3k branch - the merged change to the svnmerge related properties
> on the root directory gets in the way when svnmerge attempts to update
> them on the maintenance branch.
>
> That's what started this thread, and so
On 2008-12-11 19:15, Adam Olsen wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 2:34 AM, Victor Stinner
> wrote:
>> Le Wednesday 10 December 2008 20:04:00 Terry Reedy, vous avez écrit :
> Recover after a segfault is dangerous, but my first goal was to get the
> Python backtrace instead just one line: "Se
On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 12:15 PM, Adam Olsen wrote:
> You have to use the low-level stderr, nothing that invokes Python.
> I'd hate to get a second segfault while printing the first.
>
> Just think about how indirect refcounting bugs tend to be. Another
> example is messing up GIL handling. The
On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 2:34 AM, Victor Stinner
wrote:
> Le Wednesday 10 December 2008 20:04:00 Terry Reedy, vous avez écrit :
>> >> Recover after a segfault is dangerous, but my first goal was to get the
>> >> Python backtrace instead just one line: "Segmentation fault". It helps a
>> >> lot for
On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 6:41 AM, Ulrich Eckhardt
wrote:
> On Thursday 11 December 2008, Steve Holden wrote:
>> re-present it to the filesystem to manipulate the file. What are we
>> supposed to do with the "special type"?
>
> You receive from readdir() and pass it to stat(), simple as that. No
> c
Ulrich Eckhardt wrote:
> On Thursday 11 December 2008, Steve Holden wrote:
>> Ulrich Eckhardt wrote:
>>> What I'd just like some feedback on is the approach to return a distinct
>>> type (neither a byte string nor a Unicode string) from readdir(). In
>>> order to use this, a programmer will have to
On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 10:08 AM, Jeffrey Yasskin wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 1:34 AM, Victor Stinner
> wrote:
>> But if -as many people wrote-
>> Python is totally broken after a segfault, it is maybe not a good idea :-)
>
> While it's true that after a segfault or unexpected longjmp, there
On Dec 11, 2008, at 11:08 AM, Jeffrey Yasskin wrote:
On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 1:34 AM, Victor Stinner
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
But if -as many people wrote-
Python is totally broken after a segfault, it is maybe not a good
idea :-)
While it's true that after a segfault or unexpected longj
On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 4:18 AM, Nick Coghlan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Martin v. Löwis wrote:
>> Jeffrey Yasskin wrote:
>>> Was there ever a conclusion to this? I need to merge the patches
>>> associated with issue 4597 from trunk to all the maintenance branches,
>>> and I'd like to avoid messi
On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 1:34 AM, Victor Stinner
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> But if -as many people wrote-
> Python is totally broken after a segfault, it is maybe not a good idea :-)
While it's true that after a segfault or unexpected longjmp, there are
no guarantees whatsoever about the state of
>> The Python distribution comes with a Misc/gdbinit file
Victor> Hum, do you really run *all* programs in gdb? Most of the time,
Victor> you don't expect a crash (because you trust your softwares). You
Victor> will have to try to reproduce the crash, but sometimes it's very
V
On Thu, 11 Dec 2008, Ulrich Eckhardt wrote:
On Thursday 11 December 2008, Steve Holden wrote:
Ulrich Eckhardt wrote:
Seems to me this just threatens to add to the confusion.
If you know what your filesystem produces, you can take the appropriate
action to convert it into a type that makes sens
Le Thursday 11 December 2008 13:57:03 [EMAIL PROTECTED], vous avez écrit :
> Simon> Some indictation of what Python was executing when the segfault
> Simon> occurred would help narrow now the possibilities rapidly.
>
> The Python distribution comes with a Misc/gdbinit file
Hum, do you real
Hi Martin,
On Dec 11, 2008, at 12:12 AM, Martin v. Löwis wrote:
Several people already said (essentially) that: -1. I don't think such
code should be added to the Python core, no matter how smart or
correct
it is.
does your -1 apply only to attempts to resume execution after SIGSEGV,
or
On Thursday 11 December 2008, Steve Holden wrote:
> Ulrich Eckhardt wrote:
> > What I'd just like some feedback on is the approach to return a distinct
> > type (neither a byte string nor a Unicode string) from readdir(). In
> > order to use this, a programmer will have to convert it explicitly,
>
pobox.com> writes:
>
> I understand. The guy has a problem today for which there is a solution
> that I posted. If he's "been meaning to look into the problem" and he's
> posting to python-dev I presume he knows at least a little about running gdb
> if he's operating in a Unix environment. The
Antoine> Still, it would be much better if the stack trace could be
Antoine> printed by Python itself rather than having to resort to gdb
Antoine> wizardry. Especially if the problem is reported by one of your
Antoine> non-developer users.
I understand. The guy has a problem toda
pobox.com> writes:
>
> The Python distribution comes with a Misc/gdbinit file (you can grab it from
> the Subversion source tree via the web as well) that defines a pystack
> command. It will work with core files as well as running processes and
> should give you a very good idea where your Pyth
Simon> Some indictation of what Python was executing when the segfault
Simon> occurred would help narrow now the possibilities rapidly.
The Python distribution comes with a Misc/gdbinit file (you can grab it from
the Subversion source tree via the web as well) that defines a pystack
comma
Martin v. Löwis wrote:
> Jeffrey Yasskin wrote:
>> Was there ever a conclusion to this? I need to merge the patches
>> associated with issue 4597 from trunk to all the maintenance branches,
>> and I'd like to avoid messing anyone up if possible. If I don't hear
>> back, I'll plan to svnmerge direct
Ulrich Eckhardt wrote:
> On Wednesday 10 December 2008, Adam Olsen wrote:
>> On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 3:39 AM, Ulrich Eckhardt
>>
>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> On Tuesday 09 December 2008, Adam Olsen wrote:
The only thing separating this from a bikeshed discussion is that a
bikeshed ha
>
> If we could calculate how much stack is left we'd have a much more
> robust way of doing recursion limits. I suppose this could be done by
> reading a byte from each page with a temporary SIGSEGV handler
> installed, but I'm not convinced you can't ask the platform directly
> somehow. I'd als
Le Wednesday 10 December 2008 20:04:00 Terry Reedy, vous avez écrit :
> >> Recover after a segfault is dangerous, but my first goal was to get the
> >> Python backtrace instead just one line: "Segmentation fault". It helps a
> >> lot for debug!
> >
> > Exactly! That's why it doesn't belong in the P
On Wednesday 10 December 2008, Adam Olsen wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 3:39 AM, Ulrich Eckhardt
>
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On Tuesday 09 December 2008, Adam Olsen wrote:
> >> The only thing separating this from a bikeshed discussion is that a
> >> bikeshed has many equally good solution
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