Re: [Python-Dev] Preserving the definition order of class namespaces.

2015-05-27 Thread Donald Stufft
io I’m in favor of releasing more often as well. --- Donald Stufft PGP: 7C6B 7C5D 5E2B 6356 A926 F04F 6E3C BCE9 3372 DCFA___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail

Re: [Python-Dev] PYTHONHTTPSVERIFY env var

2015-05-12 Thread Donald Stufft
> On May 12, 2015, at 7:40 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: > > On 12 May 2015 at 21:21, Donald Stufft wrote: >> >>> On May 12, 2015, at 7:17 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: >>> >>> On 12 May 2015 at 21:09, Donald Stufft wrote: >>>> If you control the

Re: [Python-Dev] PYTHONHTTPSVERIFY env var

2015-05-12 Thread Donald Stufft
> On May 12, 2015, at 7:17 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: > > On 12 May 2015 at 21:09, Donald Stufft wrote: >> If you control the app you don't need to do that. All relevant api accept >> the context parameter. The shims are only useful when you don't control the &

Re: [Python-Dev] PYTHONHTTPSVERIFY env var

2015-05-12 Thread Donald Stufft
gt;> On 12.05.2015 12:04, Donald Stufft wrote: >> >>> On May 12, 2015, at 3:57 AM, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: >>> >>> In a user based installation (which most applications shipping >>> their own Python installation are), you can always do this >>>

Re: [Python-Dev] PYTHONHTTPSVERIFY env var

2015-05-12 Thread Donald Stufft
cations do that. --- Donald Stufft PGP: 7C6B 7C5D 5E2B 6356 A926 F04F 6E3C BCE9 3372 DCFA signature.asc Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-

Re: [Python-Dev] PYTHONHTTPSVERIFY env var

2015-05-11 Thread Donald Stufft
> On May 11, 2015, at 6:47 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: > > On 11 May 2015 at 20:23, Donald Stufft wrote: >> On May 11, 2015, at 6:15 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: >>> We made the decision when PEP 476 was accepted that this change turned >>> a silent security failure in

Re: [Python-Dev] PYTHONHTTPSVERIFY env var

2015-05-11 Thread Donald Stufft
said, since it's not being included in Python core and it's only some patch that some downstream's are going to apply I also don't really care that much because it's not going to effect me and if it turns out to be a bad idea and a footgun like I think it is, then the blame can

Re: [Python-Dev] Python 3.x Adoption for PyPI and PyPI Download Numbers

2015-04-21 Thread Donald Stufft
> On Apr 21, 2015, at 11:35 PM, Gregory P. Smith wrote: > > > > On Tue, Apr 21, 2015 at 10:55 AM Donald Stufft <mailto:don...@stufft.io>> wrote: > Just thought I'd share this since it shows how what people are using to > download things from PyPI

Re: [Python-Dev] [python-committers] [RELEASED] Python 3.5.0a4 is now available

2015-04-21 Thread Donald Stufft
> On Apr 21, 2015, at 7:18 PM, Steve Dower wrote: > > Donald Stufft wrote: >> Is this version statically linked by any chance? > > No, there's no change to the compilation process, so you can get exactly the > same result by using the regular installer and copyi

Re: [Python-Dev] [python-committers] [RELEASED] Python 3.5.0a4 is now available

2015-04-21 Thread Donald Stufft
g *really* useful. > Paul Is this version statically linked by any chance? --- Donald Stufft PGP: 7C6B 7C5D 5E2B 6356 A926 F04F 6E3C BCE9 3372 DCFA signature.asc Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail ___ Python-Dev mailing li

Re: [Python-Dev] [Distutils] Python 3.x Adoption for PyPI and PyPI Download Numbers

2015-04-21 Thread Donald Stufft
> On Apr 21, 2015, at 3:15 PM, Toshio Kuratomi wrote: > > On Tue, Apr 21, 2015 at 01:54:55PM -0400, Donald Stufft wrote: >> >> Anyways, I'll have access to the data set for another day or two before I >> shut down the (expensive) server that I have to use

[Python-Dev] Python 3.x Adoption for PyPI and PyPI Download Numbers

2015-04-21 Thread Donald Stufft
ive) server that I have to use to crunch the numbers so if there's anything anyone else wants to see before I shut it down, speak up soon. --- Donald Stufft PGP: 7C6B 7C5D 5E2B 6356 A926 F04F 6E3C BCE9 3372 DCFA signature.asc Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail ___

Re: [Python-Dev] [python-committers] Do we need to sign Windows files with GnuPG?

2015-04-03 Thread Donald Stufft
ww.egenix.com/ >>>>> mxODBC.Zope.Database.Adapter ... http://zope.egenix.com/ >>>>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ...http://python.egenix.com/ >> ___

Re: [Python-Dev] some minor questions about pep8

2015-03-21 Thread Donald Stufft
> On Mar 21, 2015, at 5:17 PM, MRAB wrote: > > On 2015-03-21 21:00, Donald Stufft wrote: >> >>> On Mar 21, 2015, at 4:53 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote: >>> >>> On Mar 20, 2015, at 08:53 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote: >>> >>>> FWIW, I t

Re: [Python-Dev] some minor questions about pep8

2015-03-21 Thread Donald Stufft
rs, > -Barry > ___ > Python-Dev mailing list > Python-Dev@python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev > Unsubscribe: > https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/donald%40stufft.io --- Donald Stufft PGP: 7C6B

Re: [Python-Dev] Use ptyhon -s as default shbang for system python executables/daemons

2015-03-21 Thread Donald Stufft
> On Mar 21, 2015, at 7:52 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: > > On 19 March 2015 at 07:51, Donald Stufft wrote: >> I’ve long wished that the OS had it’s own virtual environment. A lot of >> problems >> seems to come from trying to cram the things the OS wants with the things

Re: [Python-Dev] Use ptyhon -s as default shbang for system python executables/daemons

2015-03-18 Thread Donald Stufft
_ > Python-Dev mailing list > Python-Dev@python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev > Unsubscribe: > https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/donald%40stufft.io I’ve long wished that the OS had it’s own virtual environment. A lot of problems se

Re: [Python-Dev] Thoughts on running Python 3.5 on Windows (path, pip install --user, etc)

2015-03-09 Thread Donald Stufft
> On Mar 9, 2015, at 7:11 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote: > > > On 10 Mar 2015 02:37, "Donald Stufft" <mailto:don...@stufft.io>> wrote: > > > > > > I'm okay with this. Installing for all users is really something that > > >

Re: [Python-Dev] Thoughts on running Python 3.5 on Windows (path, pip install --user, etc)

2015-03-09 Thread Donald Stufft
whatever it’s called) entrypoints and then give Python something like -m, but which executes a specific entry point name instead of a module name (or maybe -m can fall back to looking at entry points? I don’t know). I’ve given this like… 30s worth of thought, but maybe: pip i

Re: [Python-Dev] (no subject)

2015-02-09 Thread Donald Stufft
> On Feb 10, 2015, at 12:55 AM, Greg Ewing wrote: > > Donald Stufft wrote: >> However [*item for item in ranges] is mapped more to something like this: >> result = [] >> for item in iterable: >>result.extend(*item) > > Actually it would be >

Re: [Python-Dev] (no subject)

2015-02-09 Thread Donald Stufft
> On Feb 9, 2015, at 8:34 PM, Neil Girdhar wrote: > > > > On Mon, Feb 9, 2015 at 7:53 PM, Donald Stufft <mailto:don...@stufft.io>> wrote: > >> On Feb 9, 2015, at 7:29 PM, Neil Girdhar > <mailto:mistersh...@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >>

Re: [Python-Dev] (no subject)

2015-02-09 Thread Donald Stufft
bate and it was decided that duplicate keyword arguments > would remain an error (for now at least). If you want to merge the > dictionaries with overriding, then you can still do: > > function(**{**kw_arguments, **more_arguments}) > > because **-unpacking in dicts overrides as y

Re: [Python-Dev] (no subject)

2015-02-09 Thread Donald Stufft
7;: 1}, y=2, **{'z': 3}) I feel like not only does this genericize way better but it limits the impact and new syntax being added to Python and is a ton more readable. --- Donald Stufft PGP: 7C6B 7C5D 5E2B 6356 A926 F04F 6E3C BCE9 3372 DCFA __

Re: [Python-Dev] Workflow PEP proposals are now closed

2015-02-02 Thread Donald Stufft
481 > <https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0481/> from Donald Stufft that proposes > using GitHub. > > At this point I expect final PEPs by PyCon US so I can try and make a > decision by May 1. Longer still is to hopefully have whatever solution we > choose in pla

Re: [Python-Dev] Overriding stdlib http package

2015-01-24 Thread Donald Stufft
> On Jan 24, 2015, at 10:17 AM, Donald Stufft wrote: > > Or you have things like pdb++ which needs to replace the pdb import > because a lot of tools only have a flag like —pdb and do not provide > a way to switch it to a different import. The sys.path ordering means > th

Re: [Python-Dev] Overriding stdlib http package

2015-01-24 Thread Donald Stufft
> On Jan 24, 2015, at 2:57 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: > > On 15 January 2015 at 07:35, Donald Stufft wrote: >> >> On Jan 14, 2015, at 4:19 PM, Brett Cannon wrote: >> >> But as Guido pointed out, we _like_ it being difficult to do because we >> don't

[Python-Dev] Possible "REMOTE HOST IDENTIFICATION HAS CHANGED!" Error.

2015-01-20 Thread Donald Stufft
RSA) $ ssh-keygen -lf /etc/ssh/ssh_host_ed25519_key.pub 256 1d:02:d1:d2:7b:a1:cb:e0:51:65:25:d7:19:dd:4e:74 /etc/ssh/ssh_host_ed25519_key.pub (ED25519) Sorry for any inconvience this causes! --- Donald Stufft PGP: 7C6B 7C5D 5E2B 6356 A926 F04F 6E3C BCE9 3372 DCFA _

Re: [Python-Dev] Overriding stdlib http package

2015-01-14 Thread Donald Stufft
the default order of sys.path. --- Donald Stufft PGP: 7C6B 7C5D 5E2B 6356 A926 F04F 6E3C BCE9 3372 DCFA ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/option

Re: [Python-Dev] My thinking about the development process

2015-01-08 Thread Donald Stufft
nt and helpful. :) Ah oops, I forgot to review that. *goes to do so now*. --- Donald Stufft PGP: 7C6B 7C5D 5E2B 6356 A926 F04F 6E3C BCE9 3372 DCFA ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubsc

Re: [Python-Dev] New Windows installer for Python 3.5

2015-01-05 Thread Donald Stufft
wrappers use whatever version they were installs against? Or do you mean the “installed” version might be 3.5 for ``pip.exe`` even though there’s a 3.5.1 for ``pip.exe`` on the PATH? --- Donald Stufft PGP: 7C6B 7C5D 5E2B 6356 A926 F04F 6E3C BCE9 3372 DCFA _

Re: [Python-Dev] New Windows installer for Python 3.5

2015-01-03 Thread Donald Stufft
d ask. Depending on the answer above, does it make sense to sign the generic .exe (does that even work if we rename it?) which will get used for anything that uses entry points on Windows? Is there any plan to backport this to 2.7 (presumably after some experience is had with it in 3.5)? ---

Re: [Python-Dev] Python 2.x and 3.x use survey, 2014 edition

2014-12-15 Thread Donald Stufft
gt; > -- > > Christopher Barker, Ph.D. > Oceanographer > > Emergency Response Division > NOAA/NOS/OR&R(206) 526-6959 voice > 7600 Sand Point Way NE (206) 526-6329 fax > Seattle, WA 98115 (206) 526-6317 main reception > > chris.bar..

Re: [Python-Dev] Python 2.x and 3.x use survey, 2014 edition

2014-12-13 Thread Donald Stufft
> On Dec 13, 2014, at 10:17 AM, Barry Warsaw wrote: > > On Dec 13, 2014, at 12:29 AM, Donald Stufft wrote: > >> For what it’s worth, I almost exclusively write 2/3 compatible code (and >> that’s with the “easy” subset of 2.6+ and either 3.2+ or 3.3+) and doing so >&

Re: [Python-Dev] Python 2.x and 3.x use survey, 2014 edition

2014-12-12 Thread Donald Stufft
> On Dec 13, 2014, at 12:40 AM, Chris Angelico wrote: > > On Sat, Dec 13, 2014 at 4:29 PM, Donald Stufft wrote: >> So that's basically it, lowest common demoniator programming where it's hard >> to >> look at the future and see anything but the same (or

Re: [Python-Dev] Python 2.x and 3.x use survey, 2014 edition

2014-12-12 Thread Donald Stufft
> On Dec 13, 2014, at 12:29 AM, Donald Stufft wrote: > >> >> On Dec 12, 2014, at 11:55 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: >> >> On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 10:24:15AM -0800, Mark Roberts wrote: >>> So, I'm more than aware of how to write Python 2/3 co

Re: [Python-Dev] Python 2.x and 3.x use survey, 2014 edition

2014-12-12 Thread Donald Stufft
#x27;s hard to look at the future and see anything but the same (or similar) language subset that I'm currently using. This is especially frustrating when you see other languages doing cool and interesting new things and it feels like we're stuck with what we had in 2008 or 2010. -

Re: [Python-Dev] My thinking about the development process

2014-12-11 Thread Donald Stufft
so I can read them before > PyCon and have informed discussions while I'm there. I will then plan to make > a final decision by May 1 so that we can try to have the changes ready for > Python 3.6 development (currently scheduled for Sep 2015). Is it OK to adapt my current PEP or shoul

Re: [Python-Dev] Python 2.x and 3.x use survey, 2014 edition

2014-12-10 Thread Donald Stufft
moin/2.x-vs-3.x-survey> Just going to say http://d.stufft.io/image/0z1841112o0C <http://d.stufft.io/image/0z1841112o0C> is a hard question to answer, since most code I write is both. --- Donald Stufft PGP: 7C6B 7C5D 5E2B 6356 A926 F04F 6E3C BCE9 3372 DCFA _

Re: [Python-Dev] My thinking about the development process

2014-12-06 Thread Donald Stufft
> On Dec 6, 2014, at 10:26 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: > > On 7 December 2014 at 01:07, Donald Stufft wrote: >> A likely solution is to use a pre-merge test runner for the systems that we >> can isolate which will give a decent indication if the tests are going to >

Re: [Python-Dev] My thinking about the development process

2014-12-06 Thread Donald Stufft
these on a cloud provider assuming that their licenses allow that. The other solution would work easier with our current buildbot fleet since you’d just tell it to run some tests but you’d wait until a “trusted” person gave the OK before you did that. A likely solution is to use a pre-merge t

Re: [Python-Dev] My thinking about the development process

2014-12-06 Thread Donald Stufft
> On Dec 6, 2014, at 8:45 AM, Brett Cannon wrote: > > > > On Fri Dec 05 2014 at 3:24:38 PM Donald Stufft <mailto:don...@stufft.io>> wrote: > >> On Dec 5, 2014, at 3:04 PM, Brett Cannon > <mailto:bcan...@gmail.com>> wrote: >> > >

Re: [Python-Dev] My thinking about the development process

2014-12-05 Thread Donald Stufft
t; > In other words, it seems like the key to improving the productivity of > our CPython patch workflow is to improve the productivity of the patch > workflow for our key workflow resource, bugs.python.org. > > --David > ___ > Pytho

Re: [Python-Dev] Python 2/3 porting HOWTO has been updated

2014-12-05 Thread Donald Stufft
> Python-Dev mailing list > Python-Dev@python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev > Unsubscribe: > https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/donald%40stufft.io Do we need to update it? Can it

Re: [Python-Dev] My thinking about the development process

2014-12-05 Thread Donald Stufft
> On Dec 5, 2014, at 3:04 PM, Brett Cannon wrote: > This looks like a pretty good write up, seems to pretty fairly evaluate the various sides and the various concerns. --- Donald Stufft PGP: 7C6B 7C5D 5E2B 6356 A926 F04F 6E3C BCE9 337

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

2014-12-02 Thread Donald Stufft
include code reviews in the matrix of what tools we’re going to use then yea? Like Github/Bitbucket/etc have review built in. Other tools like Phabricator do as well but are self hosted instead. --- Donald Stufft PGP: 7C6B 7C5D 5E2B 6356 A926 F04F 6E3C BCE9 3372 DCFA __

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

2014-12-02 Thread Donald Stufft
points and not deal-breakers. This sounds like a pretty reasonable attitude to take towards this. If we’re going to be experimenting/talking things over, should I withdraw my PEP? --- Donald Stufft PGP: 7C6B 7C5D 5E2B 6356 A926 F04F 6E3C BCE9 3372 DCFA __

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

2014-11-30 Thread Donald Stufft
.org/mailman/options/python-dev/donald%40stufft.io Git uses the idea of small individual commands that do small things, so you can write your own commands that work on text streams to extend git and you can even write those in Python. --- Donald Stufft PGP: 7C6B 7C5D 5E2B 6356 A926 F04F 6E3C BC

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

2014-11-30 Thread Donald Stufft
> On Nov 30, 2014, at 10:08 PM, Pierre-Yves David > wrote: > > > > On 11/29/2014 06:01 PM, Donald Stufft wrote: >> The reason the PEP primarily focuses on the popularity of the the tool is >> because as you mentioned, issues like poor documentation, bad suppor

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

2014-11-30 Thread Donald Stufft
> On Nov 30, 2014, at 8:41 PM, Eric Snow wrote: > > On Sun, Nov 30, 2014 at 6:25 PM, Donald Stufft wrote: >> The technical benefits mostly come from Github generally being a higher >> quality product than it’s competitors, both FOSS and not. > > Here's a solut

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

2014-11-30 Thread Donald Stufft
nstead of a .patch from from Roundup. This could allow non-committers to use git if they want, including PRs but without moving things around. The obvious cost is that since the committer side of things is still using the existing tooling there’s no “Merge button” or the other committer benefi

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

2014-11-30 Thread Donald Stufft
> On Nov 30, 2014, at 8:11 PM, Pierre-Yves David > wrote: > > > > On 11/30/2014 08:45 AM, Donald Stufft wrote: >> I don’t make branches in Mercurial because >> i’m afraid I’m going to push a permanent branch to hg.python.org >> <http://hg.python.org>

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

2014-11-30 Thread Donald Stufft
> On Nov 30, 2014, at 7:43 PM, Ben Finney wrote: > > Donald Stufft writes: > >> It’s not lost, [… a long, presumably-accurate discourse of the many >> conditions that must be met before …] you can restore it. > > This isn't the place to discuss the details

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

2014-11-30 Thread Donald Stufft
> On Nov 30, 2014, at 7:17 PM, Ben Finney wrote: > > Donald Stufft writes: > >> I have never heard of git losing history. > > In my experience talking with Git users about this problem, that depends > on a very narrow definition of “losing history”. > &g

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

2014-11-30 Thread Donald Stufft
> On Nov 30, 2014, at 3:26 PM, Brett Cannon wrote: > > > > On Sun Nov 30 2014 at 2:33:35 PM Donald Stufft <mailto:don...@stufft.io>> wrote: > >> On Nov 30, 2014, at 2:19 PM, Brett Cannon > <mailto:br...@python.org>> wrote: >> >> All

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

2014-11-30 Thread Donald Stufft
hes of incoming PEPs he’s seen that a lot of the PEPs are being written on Github using git. I think it’s fair to say that those people would prefer PRs on Github over using Bitbucket as well since they were choosing Github over Bitbucket when there was no incentive to do so. --- Donald Stufft PGP:

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

2014-11-30 Thread Donald Stufft
r just because the other group hasn’t had a public and inflammatory event. > > Not everyone is suited to demonstrate in the streets, but it shouldn't be > that hard to not use a company with > acknowledged bad practices. > > -- > ~Ethan~ > > ___

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

2014-11-30 Thread Donald Stufft
t line is already crossed with other code things already being on github) that’s fine with me. Or I can expand the scope if people think that makes more sense in the PEP too. --- Donald Stufft PGP: 7C6B 7C5D 5E2B 6356 A926 F04F 6E3C BCE9 3372 DCFA ___ P

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

2014-11-30 Thread Donald Stufft
should not be wasting our precious time on building and > maintaining our own tools or administering the servers on which they run. And > historically we've not done a great job on maintenance and administration. > > Of course it's fun to make tools in Python, and to see th

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

2014-11-30 Thread Donald Stufft
> On Nov 30, 2014, at 11:30 AM, Donald Stufft wrote: > > Comments like this make me feel like I didn’t explain myself very well in the > PEP. It’s been pointed out to me that Mercurial bookmarks have been core since 1.8 and since I felt like the technical arguments were really

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

2014-11-30 Thread Donald Stufft
> On Nov 30, 2014, at 12:09 PM, Donald Stufft wrote: > >> >> On Nov 30, 2014, at 11:55 AM, Barry Warsaw wrote: >> >> On Nov 30, 2014, at 09:54 AM, Ian Cordasco wrote: >> >>> - Migrating "data" from GitHub is easy. There are free-as-in-f

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

2014-11-30 Thread Donald Stufft
ject. > ___ > Python-Dev mailing list > Python-Dev@python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev > Unsubscribe: > https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/donald%40stufft.io --- Donald Stufft PGP: 7C6B 7C5D 5

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

2014-11-30 Thread Donald Stufft
ut there, or that if they are already contributing to those other Python projects they are probably aware of this particular toolchain and workflow and can apply that knowledge directly to the Python project. Moving to some of these tools happens to come with it features like really nice CI integr

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

2014-11-30 Thread Donald Stufft
> On Nov 30, 2014, at 11:28 AM, Brett Cannon wrote: > > > > On Sat Nov 29 2014 at 7:16:34 PM Alex Gaynor <mailto:alex.gay...@gmail.com>> wrote: > Donald Stufft stufft.io <http://stufft.io/>> writes: > > > > > [words words words] > >

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

2014-11-30 Thread Donald Stufft
> On Nov 30, 2014, at 6:18 AM, Ben Finney wrote: > > Donald Stufft writes: > >> I think there is a big difference here between using a closed source >> VCS or compiler and using a closed source code host. Namely in that >> the protocol is defined by git so swit

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

2014-11-30 Thread Donald Stufft
> On Nov 30, 2014, at 2:08 AM, Larry Hastings wrote: > > > On 11/29/2014 04:37 PM, Donald Stufft wrote: >> On Nov 29, 2014, at 7:15 PM, Alex Gaynor >> <mailto:alex.gay...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> Despite being a regular hg >>> user for years, I ha

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

2014-11-30 Thread Donald Stufft
> On Nov 30, 2014, at 7:31 AM, Paul Moore wrote: > > On 29 November 2014 at 23:27, Donald Stufft wrote: >> In previous years there was concern about how well supported git was on >> Windows >> in comparison to Mercurial. However git has grown to support Windows as a

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

2014-11-29 Thread Donald Stufft
> On Nov 30, 2014, at 12:06 AM, Ben Finney wrote: > > Nick Coghlan writes: > >> 1. I strongly believe that the long term sustainability of the overall >> open source community requires the availability and use of open source >> infrastructure. > > I concur. This article http://mako.cc/writing

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

2014-11-29 Thread Donald Stufft
> On Nov 29, 2014, at 9:01 PM, Donald Stufft wrote: > >> >> The PEP should also cover providing clear instructions for setting up >> git-remote-hg with the remaining Mercurial repos (most notably CPython), as >> well as documenting a supported workflow for g

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

2014-11-29 Thread Donald Stufft
> On Nov 29, 2014, at 8:12 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote: > > > On 30 Nov 2014 09:28, "Donald Stufft" <mailto:don...@stufft.io>> wrote: > > > > As promised in the "Move selected documentation repos to PSF BitBucket > > account?" thread

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

2014-11-29 Thread Donald Stufft
makes it much more attractive to learn the tooling since the hypothetical person would be able to take that knowledge and apply it elsewhere. It is my experience, and this entirely ancedotal, that it's far easier to get reviews from non-committers and committers alike on projects which are ho

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

2014-11-29 Thread Donald Stufft
> On Nov 29, 2014, at 7:15 PM, Alex Gaynor wrote: > > Donald Stufft stufft.io> writes: > >> >> [words words words] >> > > I strongly support this PEP. I'd like to share two pieces of information. Both > of these are personal anecdote

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

2014-11-29 Thread Donald Stufft
> On Nov 29, 2014, at 6:27 PM, Donald Stufft wrote: > > [lots of words] Just FYI, I’ve pushed an update to the PEP. Nothing major just some grammatical fixes and such. The revision is here: https://hg.python.org/peps/rev/6c6947dbd13f For whatever it's worth, the person who

[Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

2014-11-29 Thread Donald Stufft
://www.openhub.net/repositories/compare>` .. [#hg-git] `hg-git <https://hg-git.github.io/>` .. [#travisci] `Travis CI <https://travis-ci.org/>` --- Donald Stufft PGP: 7C6B 7C5D 5E2B 6356 A926 F04F 6E3C BCE9 3372 DCFA ___ Python-Dev mai

Re: [Python-Dev] Move selected documentation repos to PSF BitBucket account?

2014-11-24 Thread Donald Stufft
> On Nov 24, 2014, at 9:37 PM, Ethan Furman wrote: > > On 11/24/2014 06:27 PM, Donald Stufft wrote: >> On Nov 24, 2014, at 8:59 PM, Ethan Furman wrote: >>> >>> It is sounding to me like GitHub is not, itself, an open solution, even >>> though >>

Re: [Python-Dev] Move selected documentation repos to PSF BitBucket account?

2014-11-24 Thread Donald Stufft
> On Nov 24, 2014, at 8:59 PM, Ethan Furman wrote: > > On 11/24/2014 08:36 AM, Donald Stufft wrote: >> On Nov 24, 2014, at 11:28 AM, Brett Cannon wrote: >>> >>> This might be a little controversial, but the PSF's mission should not >>> influenc

Re: [Python-Dev] Move selected documentation repos to PSF BitBucket account?

2014-11-24 Thread Donald Stufft
> On Nov 24, 2014, at 3:48 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote: > > > On 25 Nov 2014 06:25, "Donald Stufft" <mailto:don...@stufft.io>> wrote: > > > > > >> On Nov 24, 2014, at 2:55 PM, Nick Coghlan >> <mailto:ncogh...@gmail.com>> wrote: &g

Re: [Python-Dev] Move selected documentation repos to PSF BitBucket account?

2014-11-24 Thread Donald Stufft
ATM, so I'm > > willing to entertain moving to GitHub or Bitbucket or whatever to improve > > our situation. > > It may not have been Guido's intention, but his proposal to undercut the > entire Python based version control tooling ecosystem by deeming it entirely

Re: [Python-Dev] Move selected documentation repos to PSF BitBucket account?

2014-11-24 Thread Donald Stufft
> On Nov 24, 2014, at 2:25 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: > > Are you volunteering to write a competing PEP for a migration to git and > GitHub? If nobody steps up to do this (and another PEP isn’t accepted before then) I can likely write something up over the upcoming holiday. --- D

Re: [Python-Dev] Move selected documentation repos to PSF BitBucket account?

2014-11-24 Thread Donald Stufft
but being a PSF sponsor > should not play into it in the slightest, else it's like buying influence. Agreed here too (even then, Github has been a PyCon sponsor for awhile and has even ran their own Python conference in the past). I think it’s kind of shitty to reject and demean someo

Re: [Python-Dev] Move selected documentation repos to PSF BitBucket account?

2014-11-24 Thread Donald Stufft
mmunity is primarily there as well. > >> At least for me, until we get a clear understanding of what workflow changes >> we are asking for both contributors and core developers and exactly what >> work would be necessary to update our infrastructure for either Bitbucket

Re: [Python-Dev] Move selected documentation repos to PSF BitBucket account?

2014-11-24 Thread Donald Stufft
> On Nov 24, 2014, at 4:12 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: > > > On 24 Nov 2014 10:41, "Donald Stufft" <mailto:don...@stufft.io>> wrote: > > > > > > > On Nov 23, 2014, at 6:57 PM, Steven D'Aprano > > <mailto:st...@pearwood.info>>

Re: [Python-Dev] Move selected documentation repos to PSF BitBucket account?

2014-11-24 Thread Donald Stufft
> On Nov 24, 2014, at 7:09 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: > > On 24 November 2014 at 22:01, Donald Stufft wrote: >>> On Nov 24, 2014, at 6:44 AM, Ben Finney wrote: >>> No, I'm not offering to write such a PEP either. I'm requesting that we >>> recogni

Re: [Python-Dev] Move selected documentation repos to PSF BitBucket account?

2014-11-24 Thread Donald Stufft
downsides > too, and needs to promote its specific benefits separately from the > benefits of Git. > In many cases Github is git’s killer feature which is why you see a lot of people equate the two. It’s not unusual to see a project switch away

Re: [Python-Dev] Move selected documentation repos to PSF BitBucket account?

2014-11-23 Thread Donald Stufft
but probably still better than what we have now) OSS software that gives you a github like flow. The only *data* that is really in there is what’s stored in the repository itself (since I don’t think for anything major we’d ever put issues there or use the wiki) which is trivial to move around. ---

Re: [Python-Dev] Move selected documentation repos to PSF BitBucket account?

2014-11-23 Thread Donald Stufft
> On Nov 23, 2014, at 4:08 PM, Georg Brandl wrote: > > On 11/23/2014 09:38 PM, Donald Stufft wrote: >> >>> On Nov 23, 2014, at 3:03 PM, Georg Brandl wrote: >>> >>> The next point is that there is no easy way to change the target branch of >>&g

Re: [Python-Dev] Move selected documentation repos to PSF BitBucket account?

2014-11-23 Thread Donald Stufft
t degrades into the same terrible UX that *every* patch has to go through on a hg.python.org repository right now. --- Donald Stufft PGP: 7C6B 7C5D 5E2B 6356 A926 F04F 6E3C BCE9 3372 DCFA ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.pyt

Re: [Python-Dev] Move selected documentation repos to PSF BitBucket account?

2014-11-23 Thread Donald Stufft
k > would be necessary to update our infrastructure for either Bitbucket or > GitHub we can't really have a reasonable discussion that isn't going to be > full of guessing. > > And I'm still in support no matter what of breaking out the HOW

Re: [Python-Dev] Move selected documentation repos to PSF BitBucket account?

2014-11-23 Thread Donald Stufft
> On Nov 23, 2014, at 2:35 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: > > On 23 November 2014 at 17:14, Donald Stufft wrote: >>> On Nov 23, 2014, at 2:01 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: >>> Travis isn't the only CI system on the internet, and for pure Sphinx >>> documentation

Re: [Python-Dev] Move selected documentation repos to PSF BitBucket account?

2014-11-22 Thread Donald Stufft
> On Nov 23, 2014, at 2:01 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: > > On 23 November 2014 at 16:27, Donald Stufft wrote: >>> On Nov 23, 2014, at 1:25 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: >>> By contrast, proposals to switch from Mercurial to Git impose a >>> *massive* burden on cont

Re: [Python-Dev] Move selected documentation repos to PSF BitBucket account?

2014-11-22 Thread Donald Stufft
rs to external contribution, both without alienating existing > contributors by forcing them to change their workflows. > > Proposing to *also* switch from Mercurial to git significantly > increases the cost of the change, while providing minimal incremental > benefit. > > Regards

Re: [Python-Dev] Move selected documentation repos to PSF BitBucket account?

2014-11-22 Thread Donald Stufft
> On Nov 23, 2014, at 1:25 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: > > On 23 November 2014 at 16:03, Donald Stufft wrote: >>> On Nov 23, 2014, at 12:59 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: >>> >>> Note that if folks prefer Git, BitBucket supports both. I would object >>&

Re: [Python-Dev] Move selected documentation repos to PSF BitBucket account?

2014-11-22 Thread Donald Stufft
> On Nov 23, 2014, at 1:03 AM, Donald Stufft wrote: > >> >> On Nov 23, 2014, at 12:59 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: >> >> On 23 November 2014 at 15:19, Guido van Rossum wrote: >>> This thread seems to beg for a decision. I think Donald Stufft has it >

Re: [Python-Dev] Move selected documentation repos to PSF BitBucket account?

2014-11-22 Thread Donald Stufft
> On Nov 23, 2014, at 12:59 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: > > On 23 November 2014 at 15:19, Guido van Rossum wrote: >> This thread seems to beg for a decision. I think Donald Stufft has it >> exactly right: we should move to GitHub, because it is the easiest to use >> an

Re: [Python-Dev] Move selected documentation repos to PSF BitBucket account?

2014-11-22 Thread Donald Stufft
> On Nov 23, 2014, at 12:19 AM, Guido van Rossum wrote: > > This thread seems to beg for a decision. I think Donald Stufft has it exactly > right: we should move to GitHub, because it is the easiest to use and most > contributors already know it (or are eager to learn thee)

Re: [Python-Dev] Move selected documentation repos to PSF BitBucket account?

2014-11-22 Thread Donald Stufft
> On Nov 22, 2014, at 9:59 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: > > > On 22 Nov 2014 07:37, "Donald Stufft" <mailto:don...@stufft.io>> wrote: > > > On Nov 21, 2014, at 3:59 PM, Ned Deily > > <mailto:n...@acm.org>> wrote: > > > Sure, I

Re: [Python-Dev] Move selected documentation repos to PSF BitBucket account?

2014-11-21 Thread Donald Stufft
> On Nov 21, 2014, at 3:59 PM, Ned Deily wrote: > > In article <19336614-0e4f-42bf-a918-1807bb7f3...@stufft.io>, > Donald Stufft wrote: > [...] >> Well you can’t document your way out of a bad UX. The thing you’re >> competing with (on Github at least) is: &

Re: [Python-Dev] Move selected documentation repos to PSF BitBucket account?

2014-11-21 Thread Donald Stufft
and it is pretty awesome. There are self hosted options that offer similar things (often times not quite as good in the ease of use though they might be more featureful in other areas). Mostly what I’m trying to say is that documenting a field that essentially requires the end user to not only fig

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-21 Thread Donald Stufft
StopIteration does escape that shouldn't have? > I don’t have an opinion on whether it’s enough of a big deal to actually change it, but I do find wrapping it with a try: except block and returning easier to understand. If you showed me the current code unless I really thought about it I wo

Re: [Python-Dev] Move selected documentation repos to PSF BitBucket account?

2014-11-21 Thread Donald Stufft
vorite host site of Github :/. Something like Github Enterprise or Atlassian stash which are able to be migrated away from are better in this regards. Ironically we do use a propetiary/closed-source/hosted solution for https://status.python.org/ but it’s not terribly difficult to migr

Re: [Python-Dev] problem with hg.python.org?

2014-11-01 Thread Donald Stufft
list > Python-Dev@python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev > Unsubscribe: > https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/donald%40stufft.io The internet suggests trying hg verify, does that do anything? --- Donald Stufft PGP: 7C6B 7C5D 5E2B 6356 A926 F04F 6E3C

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