Re: [Python-Dev] [python-committers] How shall we conduct the Python 3.5 beta and rc periods? (Please vote!)

2015-05-22 Thread Martin v. Löwis
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Am 13.05.15 um 09:59 schrieb Larry Hastings: When you say branch testing, you mean running the buildbots against it? Right now the UI for doing that is pretty clunky. Kicking off a build against a server-side clone (iirc) requires clicking

Re: [Python-Dev] Unicode literals in Python 2.7

2015-05-07 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 02.05.15 um 21:57 schrieb Adam Bartoš: Even if sys.stdin contained a file-like object with proper encoding attribute, it wouldn't work since sys.stdin has to be instance of type 'file'. So the question is, whether it is possible to make a file instance in Python that is also customizable so

Re: [Python-Dev] [python-committers] Do we need to sign Windows files with GnuPG?

2015-04-17 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 17.04.15 um 00:46 schrieb M.-A. Lemburg: I had asked the PSF for a StartSSL certificate when the previous certificate expired, and the PSF was not able to provide one. After waiting several weeks for the PSF to provide the certificate, Kurt then kindly went to Verisign. When was that ? I

Re: [Python-Dev] [python-committers] Do we need to sign Windows files with GnuPG?

2015-04-16 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 05.04.15 um 06:43 schrieb Steve Dower: Now I just have to find the time to learn how to use it... I always sign with Kleopatra on Windows. It's really simple: just drag all files you want to sign onto it, configure detached signatures, and it will place the signature next to the original

Re: [Python-Dev] [python-committers] Do we need to sign Windows files with GnuPG?

2015-04-16 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 04.04.15 um 21:54 schrieb M.-A. Lemburg: FWIW: The PSF mostly uses StartSSL nowadays and they also support code signing certificates. Given that this option is a lot cheaper than Verisign, I think we should switch, unless there are significant reasons not to. We should revisit this in 2017.

Re: [Python-Dev] Python3 Stable ABI

2015-04-16 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 13.04.15 um 23:28 schrieb Zachary Ware: In issue23903, I've created a script that will produce PC/python3.def by scraping the header files in Include. See my comment in the issue. Having a script to check is good; having it generate the def file automatically is bad. It's typically the

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 370 - per-user scripts directory on Windows

2015-02-12 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 10.02.15 um 18:45 schrieb Steve Dower: So I've enumerated the problems with PATH on Windows before (and my subsequent dislike for modifying it through the installer) It's quite comforting to hear this - I was arguing against that addition for years (to the point of refusing to implement

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 370 - per-user scripts directory on Windows

2015-02-10 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 10.02.15 um 16:41 schrieb Steve Dower: One of my main engineering concerns is lack of shared knowledge a.k.a. the truck factor (not CPython specific, btw, just every project I work on). Wrt. the installer, I think this is a lost cause. IIUC, you aren't really getting familiar with msi.py,

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 370 - per-user scripts directory on Windows

2015-02-10 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 10.02.15 um 15:43 schrieb Paul Moore: On 10 February 2015 at 14:13, Steve Dower steve.do...@microsoft.com wrote: I was also surprised as I was working on the installer, so +1 on changing it. On a procedural note, does this require a change to the PEP (assuming it's generally acceptable)?

Re: [Python-Dev] New Windows installer for Python 3.5

2015-01-13 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 04.01.15 00:34, schrieb Steve Dower: so I'm keen to hear whatever feedback people have. One issue that I always wanted to address is patch releases. There are two aspects I dislike about the current implementation a) an upgrade install first uninstalls the previous installation (removing

Re: [Python-Dev] Impact of Windows PowerShell OneGet ?

2014-10-30 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 29.10.14 20:34, schrieb Glenn Linderman: New package manager from M$... article here http://www.neowin.net/news/windows-10-oneget-a-linux-style-package-management-framework. I've looked at it, but only by reading its code, not trying it out. Some notes. First, what is Chocolatey? It's a

Re: [Python-Dev] Impact of Windows PowerShell OneGet ?

2014-10-30 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Most likely, OneGet won't replace pip/PyPI, any more than apt or yum does; but it may be worth having Python itself available that way. That might simply mean having someone package up Python and put it on an appropriate server, or maybe python.org could end up hosting a repo. Python is

Re: [Python-Dev] 3.5 release schedule PEP

2014-09-25 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 24.09.14 14:34, schrieb Antoine Pitrou: On Wed, 24 Sep 2014 17:12:35 +1000 Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote: On 24 Sep 2014 15:15, Tim Golden m...@timgolden.me.uk wrote: On 23/09/2014 18:05, Steve Dower wrote: I'm also considering/experimenting with installing into Program Files by

Re: [Python-Dev] Multilingual programming article on the Red Hat Developer blog

2014-09-17 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 17.09.14 10:56, schrieb Steven D'Aprano: On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 09:21:56AM +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: Guido's mantra is something like Python's str doesn't contain characters or even code points[1], it contains code units. But is that true? It used to be true, and stopped being

Re: [Python-Dev] Bytes path support

2014-08-26 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 24.08.14 03:11, schrieb Greg Ewing: Isaac Morland wrote: In HTML 5 it allows non-ASCII-compatible encodings as long as U+FEFF (byte order mark) is used: http://www.w3.org/TR/html-markup/syntax.html#encoding-declaration Not sure about XML. According to Appendix F here:

Re: [Python-Dev] Bytes path support

2014-08-22 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 22.08.14 01:56, schrieb Glenn Linderman: 0 and 47 are certainly originally derived from ASCII. However, there could be lots of encodings that are not ASCII compatible (but in practice, probably very few, since most encodings _are_ ASCII compatible) that could be fit those constraints.

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 4000 to explicitly declare we won't be doing a Py3k style compatibility break again?

2014-08-21 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 18.08.14 08:45, schrieb Nick Coghlan: It's certainly the one that has caused the most churn in CPython and the standard library - the ripples still haven't entirely settled on that front :) For people porting their libraries and applications, the challenge is often even bigger: they need to

Re: [Python-Dev] Bytes path support

2014-08-21 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 19.08.14 19:43, schrieb Ben Hoyt: The official policy is that we want them [support for bytes paths in stdlib functions] to go away, but reality so far has not budged. We will continue to hold our breath though. :-) Does that mean that new APIs should explicitly not support bytes? I'm

Re: [Python-Dev] https:bugs.python.org -- Untrusted Connection (Firefox)

2014-08-21 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 21.08.14 17:44, schrieb Nick Coghlan: I've now raised this issue with the infrastructure team. The current hosting arrangements for bugs.python.org were put in place when the PSF didn't have any on-call system administrators of its own, but now that we do, it may be time to migrate that

Re: [Python-Dev] Surely nullable is a reasonable name?

2014-08-05 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 04.08.14 09:12, schrieb Larry Hastings: It's my contention that nullable is the correct name. But I've been asked to bring up the topic for discussion, to see if a consensus forms around this or around some other name. I have personally no problems with calling a type nullable even in

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 3121, 384 Refactoring Issues

2014-07-14 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 12.07.14 17:19, schrieb Nick Coghlan: Using the stable ABI for standard library extensions also serves to decouple them further from the internal details of the CPython runtime, making it more likely they will be able to run correctly on alternative interpreters (since emulating or

Re: [Python-Dev] buildbot.python.org down again?

2014-07-10 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 08.07.14 16:48, schrieb Guido van Rossum: May the true owner of buildbot.python.org http://buildbot.python.org stand up! Well, I think that's me (atleast by my definition of true owner). I requested that the machine be set up, and I deployed the software that is running the service (it was

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 471: scandir(fd) and pathlib.Path(name, dir_fd=None)

2014-07-07 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 01.07.14 09:44, schrieb Victor Stinner: scandir(fd) must not close the file descriptor, it should be done by the caller. Handling the lifetime of the file descriptor is a difficult problem, it's better to let the user decide how to handle it. This is an open issue still: when is the file

Re: [Python-Dev] Python 2.7 patch levels turning two digit

2014-06-23 Thread Martin v. Löwis
* Is it a good strategy to ship to Python releases for every single OpenSSL security release or is there a better way to handle these 3rd party issues ? At least for Windows, a new release certainly needs to be made. It could be possible to produce MSI patch files, but this would still

Re: [Python-Dev] Python 2.7 patch levels turning two digit

2014-06-23 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 23.06.14 22:04, schrieb Antoine Pitrou: Le 23/06/2014 15:27, M.-A. Lemburg a écrit : Not sure what you mean. We've had binary wininst distributions for Windows for more than a decade, and egg and msi distributions for 8 years :-) But without access to the VS 2008 compiler that is needed

Re: [Python-Dev] Python 2.7 patch levels turning two digit

2014-06-23 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 23.06.14 21:53, schrieb Ned Deily: It does seem like a conundrum. As I have no deep Windows experience to be able to have an appreciation of all of the technical issues involved, I ask out of ignorance: would it be possible and desirable to provide a transition period of n 2.7.x

Re: [Python-Dev] Python 2.7 patch levels turning two digit

2014-06-23 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 23.06.14 22:31, schrieb Barry Warsaw: On Jun 23, 2014, at 04:20 PM, Donald Stufft wrote: At the risk of getting Guido to post his slide again, I still think the solution to the old compiler is to just roll a 2.8 with minimal changes. No. It's not going to happen, for all the reasons

Re: [Python-Dev] Python 2.7 patch levels turning two digit

2014-06-23 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 23.06.14 22:31, schrieb Barry Warsaw: Well, on reason is that you'd have to convince MvL or someone else to take over the work that would require, but that's gotta be *much* lighter weight than releasing a Python 2.8. Just to point this out in a separate message: it will have to be somebody

Re: [Python-Dev] Issue 21671: CVE-2014-0224 OpenSSL upgrade to 1.0.1h on Windows required

2014-06-18 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 17.06.14 18:41, schrieb Yates, Andy (CS Houston, TX): Python Dev, Andy here. I have a Windows product based on Python and I’m getting hammered to release a version that includes the fix in OpenSSL 1.0.1h. My product is built on a Windows system using Python installed from the standard

Re: [Python-Dev] Issue 21671: CVE-2014-0224 OpenSSL upgrade to 1.0.1h on Windows required

2014-06-18 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 17.06.14 20:27, schrieb Steve Dower: You'll only need to rebuild the _ssl and _hashlib extension modules with the new OpenSSL version. The easiest way to do this is to build from source (which has already been updated for 1.0.1h if you use the externals scripts in Tools\buildbot), and you

Re: [Python-Dev] Moving Python 3.5 on Windows to a new compiler

2014-06-10 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 07.06.14 01:01, schrieb Steve Dower: We keep the VS 2010 files around and make sure they keep working. This is the biggest risk of the whole plan, but I believe that there's enough of a gap between when VS 14 is planned to release (which I know, but can't share) and when Python 3.5 is

Re: [Python-Dev] Moving Python 3.5 on Windows to a new compiler

2014-06-10 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 07.06.14 17:38, schrieb Steve Dower: One more possible concern that I just thought of is the availability of the build tools on Windows Vista and Windows 7 RTM (that is, without SP1). I'd have to check, but I don't believe anything after VS 2012 is supported on Vista and it's entirely

Re: [Python-Dev] Python 3.5 on VC14 - update

2014-06-10 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 10.06.14 18:30, schrieb Steve Dower: I ran a quick test with profile-guided optimization (PGO, pronounced pogo), which has supposedly been improved since VC9, and saw a very unscientific 20% speed improvement on pybench.py and 10% size reduction in python35.dll. I'm not sure what we used to

Re: [Python-Dev] Moving Python 3.5 on Windows to a new compiler

2014-06-06 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 06.06.14 17:41, schrieb Steve Dower: Hi all I would like to propose moving Python 3.5 to use Visual C++ 14.0 as the main compiler. This is fine with me, but I'm worried about the precise timing of doing so. I assume that you would plan to do this moving before VC++ 14 is actually

Re: [Python-Dev] Moving Python 3.5 on Windows to a new compiler

2014-06-06 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 06.06.14 19:31, schrieb Brian Curtin: If that's a non-issue, or if we can actually drop XP support, I'm all for it. Extended support ended in April of this year, so I think we should put XP as unsupported for 3.5 in PEP 11 - http://legacy.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0011/ I seem to

Re: [Python-Dev] Moving Python 3.5 on Windows to a new compiler

2014-06-06 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 06.06.14 20:25, schrieb Brian Curtin: We're going to have to change it at some point, otherwise we're going to have people in 2018 scrambling to find VS2008, which will be 35 versions too old by then. Not sure whether you picked 2018 deliberately: extended support for VS2008 Professional

Re: [Python-Dev] Moving Python 3.5 on Windows to a new compiler

2014-06-06 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 06.06.14 21:20, schrieb Martin v. Löwis: 2. what is the risk of installing a beta compiler on what might otherwise be a production developer system? In particular, could it interfere with other VS installations, and could it require a complete system reinstall when the final

Re: [Python-Dev] Moving Python 3.5 on Windows to a new compiler

2014-06-06 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 06.06.14 22:13, schrieb Paul Moore: From http://www.visualstudio.com/en-us/downloads/visual-studio-14-ctp-vs Currently, Visual Studio 14 CTPs have known compatibility issues with previous releases of Visual Studio and should not be installed side-by-side on the same computer. I also

Re: [Python-Dev] Updating turtle.py

2014-06-02 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 01.06.14 00:21, schrieb Terry Reedy: Responding today, I cautioned that clean-up only patches, such as she apparently would like to start with, are not in favor. I would not say that. I recall that I asked Gregor to make a number of style changes before he submitted the code, and

Re: [Python-Dev] Updating turtle.py

2014-05-31 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 31.05.14 05:32, schrieb Terry Reedy: I have two areas of questions about updating turtle.py. First the module itself, then a turtle tracker issue versus code cleanup policies. A. Unlike most stdlib modules, turtle is copyrighted and licensed by an individual. ''' # turtle.py: a Tkinter

Re: [Python-Dev] Updating turtle.py

2014-05-31 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 31.05.14 10:09, schrieb Stephen J. Turnbull: AFAICT Python policy is that someone should ask Gregor (a precedent is the Fredrik Lundh/ElementTree case). AIUI, there's been a five-year span since Gregor's been active, so I would think it's basically a matter of courtesy. Most likely he's

Re: [Python-Dev] [RELEASED] Python 3.4.1

2014-05-24 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 24.05.14 12:15, schrieb Herbert Griebel: Found the issue. To reproduce the problem install Python 3.4.0, then rename the install folder (e.g. C:\Python34 to C:\Python34x) and install Python 3.4.1. Please understand that installation of 3.4.1 attempts uninstallation of 3.4 first. Without

Re: [Python-Dev] Where is our official policy of what platforms we do support?

2014-05-18 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 15.05.14 16:20, schrieb Skip Montanaro: On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 8:26 AM, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net wrote: We already have such buildbots, they are in the unstable category. You can browse through existing buildbots here: https://www.python.org/dev/buildbot/ I can't see how to

Re: [Python-Dev] Where is our official policy of what platforms we do support?

2014-05-18 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 14.05.14 16:28, schrieb Barry Warsaw: On May 14, 2014, at 02:20 PM, Brett Cannon wrote: Do we want an official policy written down in a PEP (yes, I can write it)? Should I keep closing these patches and saying that we are not adding support for new operating systems and be hand-wavy about

Re: [Python-Dev] Tix version needed to build 2.7 Windows installer?

2014-05-08 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 08.05.14 18:59, schrieb Brian Curtin: This is mostly a question for Martin, but perhaps someone else would also know. I'm trying to build the 2.7 installers so I can backport the path option from 3.3, but I can't seem to figure out which version of Tix is necessary to have a complete

Re: [Python-Dev] this is what happens if you freeze all the modules required for startup

2014-04-17 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 17.04.14 20:47, schrieb Brett Cannon: Because people keep bringing it up, below is the results of hacking up the interpreter to include a sys.path entry for ./python35.zip instead of hard-coding to /usr/lib/python35.zip and simply zipped up Lib/ recursively. TL;DR, zipimport performance no

Re: [Python-Dev] this is what happens if you freeze all the modules required for startup

2014-04-17 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 17.04.14 20:47, schrieb Brett Cannon: Because people keep bringing it up, below is the results of hacking up the interpreter to include a sys.path entry for ./python35.zip instead of hard-coding to /usr/lib/python35.zip and simply zipped up Lib/ recursively. TL;DR, zipimport performance no

Re: [Python-Dev] this is what happens if you freeze all the modules required for startup

2014-04-16 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 14.04.14 23:51, schrieb Brett Cannon: It was realized during PyCon that since we are freezing importlib we could now consider freezing all the modules to cut out having to stat or read them from disk. [...] Thoughts? They still get read from disk, except that it is the operating system

Re: [Python-Dev] 2.7 Windows installers (Was: death to 2.7; long live 2.7)

2014-04-13 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 10.04.14 03:22, schrieb Benjamin Peterson: We'll keep doing what we're currently doing for another year, making normal bug fix releases with installers. After that, we _won't_ close 2.7 to normal bug fixes as is currently implied by the release schedule. After thinking about this plan, I

Re: [Python-Dev] Appeal for reviews

2014-04-13 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 13.04.14 03:07, schrieb Benjamin Peterson: On Sat, Apr 12, 2014, at 17:30, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: I apologize for the tone. I need to go *right* now, and can't fix that. Really, I'm sympathetic and my goal is not just to defend python-dev, but to help you get the reviews your work

Re: [Python-Dev] Appeal for reviews

2014-04-13 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 13.04.14 08:36, schrieb Stephen J. Turnbull: I admit the tone was biased toward nagging or blaming the victim, and again I apologize for causing misunderstanding. Nikolaus isn't wrong for posting here. My claim is that in current circumstances, core-mentorship would be a more *effective*

Re: [Python-Dev] Windows installers and OpenSSL

2014-04-13 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 10.04.14 15:41, schrieb Paul Moore: Given the OpenSSL vulnerability and the fact that we bundle OpenSSL with the Windows installers (1.0.1e in Python 3.4.0) should we be releasing updated installers? As others have said: certainly, and only for 3.4.0 (i.e. 2.7 in particular is not affected

Re: [Python-Dev] Windows installers and OpenSSL

2014-04-13 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 13.04.14 21:41, schrieb Steve Dower: I'm willing to embark on migrating the entire installer to WiX, which doesn't directly fix any particular issue, but could significantly reduce the overhead of building and maintaining the Windows installers. I somewhat doubt that it could reduce the

Re: [Python-Dev] 2.7 Windows installers (Was: death to 2.7; long live 2.7)

2014-04-13 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 13.04.14 22:02, schrieb Steve Dower: I replied to the other email before I saw this one. Same here :-) Consider this my self-nomination to take over, pending a quick email to Microsoft's lawyers to make sure it's okay (it should be, but IANAL and they wrote the policy). My plan would

Re: [Python-Dev] libpython added to ABI tracker

2014-04-02 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 01.04.14 13:45, schrieb Nick Coghlan: Interesting to see the UCS2 removal there for 3.3. That's a genuine removal from the public ABI as part of PEP 393. I guess the reason nobody complained is because most 3.2 Linux builds used the UCS4 ABI instead, and the stable ABI hadn't seen broad

[Python-Dev] freeze build slave

2014-03-30 Thread Martin v. Löwis
I have created a buildbot configuration to test freeze. At the moment, it has only one builder: http://buildbot.python.org/all/waterfall?show=AMD64%20Ubuntu%20LTS%20Freeze%203.x which currently fails as freeze doesn't actually work. The test itself works by first building Python in release

Re: [Python-Dev] C code: %s vs %U

2014-03-26 Thread Martin v. Löwis
[Assuming you are talking about PyUnicode_FromFormatV] %s is a string. No. %s is a char*; C does not have a string type. The string behind the pointer should be UTF-8 encoded; other encodings are tolerated through the replace error handler. %U is unicode? No. This is a PyObject* whose Python

Re: [Python-Dev] 3.4 buildbots available

2014-03-25 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 22.03.14 22:03, schrieb Benjamin Peterson: On Sat, Mar 22, 2014, at 11:10, Antoine Pitrou wrote: Hello, I've created the 3.4 category in the buildbots setup: http://buildbot.python.org/all/waterfall?category=3.4.stable I've also retired 3.2 and 3.3 buildbots. Someone will have to

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 466 (round 4): Python 2.7 network security enhancements

2014-03-25 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 25.03.14 14:47, schrieb Nick Coghlan: The PEP says to sync with Python 3, and that has full cross platform support. The Linux focus just comes from the fact that Linux is where the problem is most evident. However, it fails to address a critical detail: the upcoming maintenance end for 2.7.

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 466 (round 2): Network security enhancements for Python 2.7

2014-03-23 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 23.03.14 08:07, schrieb Nick Coghlan: Several significant changes in this revision: - scope narrowed to just Python 2.7 plus permission for commercial redistributors to use the same strategy in their long term support releases Thanks; the rationale is now much clearer, and also indicates

Re: [Python-Dev] On porting to Python 3 as the answer

2014-03-23 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 23.03.14 17:22, schrieb Guido van Rossum: At Dropbox I work with a large group of very capable developers on several large code bases that are currently in 2.7. We are constantly changing our code to make it more secure (there are several teams specifically in charge of that). And yet

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 466: Proposed policy change for handling network security enhancements

2014-03-22 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 22.03.14 22:17, schrieb Cory Benfield: I am 100%, overwhelmingly in favour of this. Without this PEP, Python 2.7 is a security liability, any it becomes nothing short of irresponsible to use Python 2.7 for any form of networking code that hits the open internet. Agreed (although this might

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 466: Proposed policy change for handling network security enhancements

2014-03-22 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 22.03.14 22:11, schrieb Nick Coghlan: Title: Network Security Enhancement Exception for All Branches I'm -0 on the general idea, and -1 on the inclusion of the 2.7 branch into the policy. The PEP trades security concerns against stability and maintainability. I see a maintenance threat

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 466: Proposed policy change for handling network security enhancements

2014-03-22 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 22.03.14 23:05, schrieb Donald Stufft: I think the pep doesn't mandate that someone does. It still requires someone to care enough to actually write the patch. It just allows such a patch to be merged. Does it actually? Unfortunately, I never got around to writing the PEP on

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 466: Proposed policy change for handling network security enhancements

2014-03-22 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 22.03.14 23:21, schrieb Donald Stufft: Just use Python 3.4 ignores the reality of production software. I wish it were that simple because I love 3.4 But I think so does the PEP (i.e. ignore the reality of production software). The risk of breaking existing installations (which might not be

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 466: Proposed policy change for handling network security enhancements

2014-03-22 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 22.03.14 23:33, schrieb Nick Coghlan: Hard to maintain legacy software is a fact of life, and way too much of it is exposed to the public internet. This PEP is about doing what we can to mitigate the damage caused both by other people's mistakes, and also the inherent challenges of

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 466: Proposed policy change for handling network security enhancements

2014-03-22 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 22.03.14 23:39, schrieb Ned Deily: Regarding the python.org binary installers, I think past practice has been for us to update third-party libraries as necessary in maintenance releases when there is good cause and with the concurrence of the release manager, so I don't see this as a big

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 466: Proposed policy change for handling network security enhancements

2014-03-22 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 23.03.14 00:02, schrieb Benjamin Peterson: As (I believe) previously discussed and documented in PEP 373, this date currently will be May 2015. Ah! Thanks for reminding me. I think PEP 466 then needs to take a position on that, as well. By the past schedule, this probably means two more bug

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 466: Proposed policy change for handling network security enhancements

2014-03-22 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 23.03.14 01:15, schrieb Christian Heimes: On 23.03.2014 01:01, Antoine Pitrou wrote: This is a bit limited. There are remotely-exploitable security issues which are still open on the bug tracker; they are not cryptography-related, but that shouldn't make a difference. (for example the

Re: [Python-Dev] 'Add/Remove Programs' entry missing for 'current user only' 32-bit installations on 64-bit Windows

2014-03-19 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 17.03.14 22:10, schrieb Jurko Gospodnetić: Fixing this required manually cleaning up leftover CPython 3.4.0rc3 windows installer registry entries. Note that the issue could not be fixed by using the CPython 3.4.0rc3 installer as it failed due to the same problem. Did you try the 3.4.0rc3

Re: [Python-Dev] [python-committers] default hg.python.org/cpython is now 3.5

2014-03-17 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 17.03.14 16:18, schrieb Benjamin Peterson: On Mon, Mar 17, 2014, at 7:10, Brett Cannon wrote: On Mon, Mar 17, 2014 at 4:51 AM, Victor Stinner victor.stin...@gmail.comwrote: Until when should we fix bugs in the branch 3.3? Branches 3.1 and 3.2 only accept security fixes, right?

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP URLs

2014-03-14 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 14.03.14 15:04, schrieb Barry Warsaw: On Mar 14, 2014, at 04:48 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote: I opened https://github.com/python/pythondotorg/issues/297 to ask for an ETA on when we can expect them to be fully integrated. Thanks Nick. On the bug I suggest creating peps.python.org. And I

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 463: Exception-catching expressions

2014-03-12 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 12.03.14 04:58, schrieb Chris Angelico: On Wed, Mar 12, 2014 at 2:20 PM, Ethan Furman et...@stoneleaf.us wrote: I sure hope this is accepted. I could have used it at least a half-dozen times in the last week -- which is more often than I would have used the ternary-if! :) Where do we

Re: [Python-Dev] Windows 'for current user' installation - 32/64-bit registrations overwrite each other

2014-03-10 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 10.03.14 14:03, schrieb Jurko Gospodnetić: Is this as issue or desired behaviour? See my response in the tracker. It's desired by Microsoft. Regards, Martin ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org

Re: [Python-Dev] Python 4: don't remove anything, don't break backward compatibility

2014-03-10 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 10.03.14 18:01, schrieb Tres Seaver: On 03/10/2014 12:49 PM, Brett Cannon wrote: I think it got lost in email threading, but Barry pointed out that Guido famously hates double digit version numbers (as do I, probably partially because he does after all these years =). Guido hates them

Re: [Python-Dev] The docstring hack for signature information has to go

2014-02-09 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 05.02.14 17:04, schrieb Georg Brandl: Mostly unrelated question while seeing the char * here: do we (or do we want to) support non-ASCII names for functions implemented in C? I didn't try, but I think it should work. methodobject.c:meth_get__name__ uses PyUnicode_FromString, which in turn

Re: [Python-Dev] The docstring hack for signature information has to go

2014-02-05 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 03.02.14 15:43, schrieb Larry Hastings: A: We create a PyMethodDefEx structure with an extra field: const char *signature. We add a new METH_SIGNATURE (maybe just METH_SIG?) flag to the flags, indicating that this is an extended structure. When iterating over the PyMethodDefs, we know how

Re: [Python-Dev] Add PyType_GetSlot

2014-02-01 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 29.01.14 03:46, schrieb Larry Hastings: So this would be a new public ABI function? Correct. Would it be 100% new code, or would you need to refactor code internally to achieve it? See the patch - it's new code. Also, just curious: what is typeslots.h used for? I tried searching for

[Python-Dev] Add PyType_GetSlot

2014-01-28 Thread Martin v. Löwis
I'd like to resolve a long-standing issue of the stable ABI in 3.4: http://bugs.python.org/issue17162 The issue is that, since PyTypeObject is opaque, module authors cannot get at tp_free, which they may need to in order to implement tp_dealloc properly. Rather than providing the proposed

Re: [Python-Dev] Python 3.4, marshal dumps slower (version 3 protocol)

2014-01-28 Thread Martin v. Löwis
I've debugged this a little bit. I couldn't originally see where the problem is, since I expected that the code dealing with shared references shouldn't ever trigger - none of the tuples in the example are actually shared (i.e. they all have a ref-count of 1, except for the outer list, which is

Re: [Python-Dev] Enable Hostname and Certificate Chain Validation

2014-01-23 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 23.01.14 07:45, schrieb Scott Dial: Anecdotally, I already know of a system at work that is using HTTPS purely for encryption, because the authentication is done in-band. So, a self-signed cert was wholly sufficient. The management tools use a RESTful interface over HTTPS for control, but

Re: [Python-Dev] Common subset of python 2 and python 3

2014-01-15 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 12.01.14 18:39, schrieb Nachshon David Armon: I propose that this new version of python use the python 3 unicode model. As the version of python will be fully compatible with both python 2 and with python 3 but NOT necsesarily with all existing code in either. It is designed as a porting

Re: [Python-Dev] [RELEASED] Python 3.4.0b2

2014-01-09 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 08.01.14 16:03, schrieb Nick Coghlan: On 9 January 2014 00:43, Bob Hanson d2mp...@newsguy.com wrote: When I read this comment of yours, Guido, I immediately started wondering about this. You may well be right -- indeed, I have a very old install (c.2007) which has not been updated (other

Re: [Python-Dev] [RELEASED] Python 3.4.0b2

2014-01-09 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 06.01.14 17:26, schrieb Michael Urman: Here's some more guesswork. Does it seem possible that msiexec is trying to verify the revocation status of the certificate used to sign the python .msi file? Per http://blogs.technet.com/b/pki/archive/2006/11/30/basic-crl-checking-with-certutil.aspx

Re: [Python-Dev] Python3 complexity

2014-01-09 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Right. But even latin-1, or better, cp1252 (on windows) does not solve it because these have undefined code points. That's not true. latin-1 does not have undefined code points. Regards, Martin ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org

Re: [Python-Dev] RFC: PEP 460: Add bytes % args and bytes.format(args) to Python 3.5

2014-01-07 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 07.01.14 15:08, schrieb Daniel Holth: Isn't it true that if you have bytes 127 or surrogate escapes then encoding to latin1 is no longer as fast as memcpy? You mean decoding from latin1 (i.e. bytes to string)? No, the opposite is true. It couldn't use memcpy before, but does now (see

Re: [Python-Dev] Buildbot - slave lost

2014-01-01 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 31.12.13 01:24, schrieb Chris Angelico: Does Buildbot retain a constant TCP socket to its server? In short: yes. A little bit longer: It uses the Twisted PerspectiveBroker protocol. That has nearly-transparent reconnects (but as your case shows, not fully transparent), and does regular ping

Re: [Python-Dev] Fwd: Python 2.x and 3.x usage survey

2013-12-31 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 31.12.13 07:12, schrieb Tim Peters: [Dan Stromberg] I keep hearing naysayers, nay saying about Python 3.x. Here's a 9 question, multiple choice survey I put together about Python 2.x use vs Python 3.x use. I'd be very pleased if you could take 5 or 10 minutes to fill it out. If you

Re: [Python-Dev] Fwd: Python 2.x and 3.x usage survey

2013-12-31 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 31.12.13 11:04, schrieb Steven D'Aprano: On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 08:16:33AM +0100, Lennart Regebro wrote: On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 6:31 AM, Dan Stromberg drsali...@gmail.com wrote: So far the results are looking good for 3.x. Python-dev probably is a bit special. Why? Most Python-Dev

Re: [Python-Dev] Running the unit test as root/administrator

2013-12-05 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 05.12.13 02:04, schrieb Vajrasky Kok: Cool. What about Linux/Unix/BSD with root account? If we have something similar, I may plan to write unit test for spwd module. Can you please phrase your question more explicit? What is it that you want to be done before writing unit tests for the spwd

Re: [Python-Dev] Running the unit test as root/administrator

2013-12-05 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 05.12.13 16:21, schrieb Vajrasky Kok: On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 11:06 PM, Martin v. Löwis mar...@v.loewis.de wrote: Can you please phrase your question more explicit? What is it that you want to be done before writing unit tests for the spwd module? I am asking buildbot of Linux/Unix/BSD

Re: [Python-Dev] Running the unit test as root/administrator

2013-12-05 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 05.12.13 16:31, schrieb Chris Angelico: Ah. I don't think we have one. If somebody would want to donate one, I suggest to run it in a VM, to reduce the (valid) security concerns that Guido has voiced. If a snapshot of the VM is made, it would be easy to restore in case a commit performs

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 0404 and VS 2010

2013-11-22 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 22.11.13 01:58, schrieb Steve Dower: I'm happy to work on a PEP and changes for what I described above, if there's enough interest? I can also update distutils to detect and build with any available compiler, though this may be more of a feature than we'd want for 2.7 at this point. I

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 0404 and VS 2010

2013-11-22 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 22.11.13 10:00, schrieb Richard Tew: That there are people who would consider using the trademark to force us to change the name we've been using without harm for 14 years, worries me. It's one thing to perhaps use it to stop someone scamming Python users, and another to suggest using it

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 0404 and VS 2010

2013-11-22 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 22.11.13 17:54, schrieb Christian Tismer: The discussion is over, but I cannot let this comment go through without citing my original question, again: My question --- I have created a very clean Python 2.7.6+ based CPython with the Stackless additions, that compiles with VS

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 0404 and VS 2010

2013-11-22 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 22.11.13 19:10, schrieb Steve Dower: I'd really want to update distutils.msvc9compiler to detect later versions as well, since that would make 'pip install' work properly for a large (majority?) of users for a large (majority?) of packages with extension modules. Some may consider this

Re: [Python-Dev] Accepting PEP 3154 for 3.4?

2013-11-20 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 20.11.13 06:18, schrieb Tim Peters: BTW, I'm not a web guy: in what way is HTTP chunked transfer mode viewed as being flawed? Everything I ever read about it seemed to think it was A Good Idea. It just didn't work for some time, see e.g. http://bugs.python.org/issue1486335

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 428 - pathlib - ready for approval

2013-11-20 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 20.11.13 17:04, schrieb Eric V. Smith: I think the confusion comes from the difference between what NTFS can do and what the Win32 (or whatever it's now called) layer allows you to do. Rumor has it that the old Posix subsystem allowed NTFS to create 2 files in the same directory that

Re: [Python-Dev] Accepting PEP 3154 for 3.4?

2013-11-19 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 19.11.13 20:59, schrieb Antoine Pitrou: That's integrated to the built-in buffering. It's not really an additional constraint: the frame sizes simply dictate how buffering happens in practice. The main point of framing is to *simplify* the buffering logic (of course, the old buffering logic

Re: [Python-Dev] Accepting PEP 3154 for 3.4?

2013-11-19 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 19.11.13 21:28, schrieb Antoine Pitrou: Well, unless you propose a patch before Saturday, I will happily ignore your proposal. See http://bugs.python.org/file32709/framing.diff Regards, Martin ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org

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