Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

On 3 Dec 2014 08:47, "Donald Stufft" wrote: > > >> On Dec 2, 2014, at 5:42 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote: >> >> Before anyone gets too excited about Rietveld (which I originally wrote as an APp Engine demo), AFAIK we're using a fork that only Martin von Loewis can maintain -- and it's a dead-end for

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

On 12/02/2014 02:47 PM, Donald Stufft wrote: On Dec 2, 2014, at 5:42 PM, Guido van Rossum mailto:gu...@python.org>> wrote: Before anyone gets too excited about Rietveld (which I originally wrote as an APp Engine demo), AFAIK we're using a fork that only Martin von Loewis can maintain -- and

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

> On Dec 2, 2014, at 5:42 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote: > > Before anyone gets too excited about Rietveld (which I originally wrote as an > APp Engine demo), AFAIK we're using a fork that only Martin von Loewis can > maintain -- and it's a dead-end fork because the Rietveld project itself only

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

Before anyone gets too excited about Rietveld (which I originally wrote as an APp Engine demo), AFAIK we're using a fork that only Martin von Loewis can maintain -- and it's a dead-end fork because the Rietveld project itself only supports App Engine, but Martin's fork runs on our own server infras

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

On Tue, Dec 2, 2014 at 9:50 AM, Brett Cannon wrote: > So I was waiting for Nick to say what he wanted to do for the peps repo > since I view it as I get 2/3 of the choices and he gets the other third. > > The way I view it, the options are: > > Move to GitHub > Move to Bitbucket > Improve our curr

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

On Tue, Dec 2, 2014 at 6:24 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: > P.S. I'll also bring up some of the RFEs raised in this discussion > around making it possible for folks to submit pull requests via > GitHub/BitBucket, even if the master repositories are hosted on PSF > infrastructure. In case it helps with

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

On Tue Dec 02 2014 at 3:14:20 PM Barry Warsaw wrote: > On Dec 02, 2014, at 07:20 PM, Brett Cannon wrote: > > >No because only two people have said they like the experiment idea so > >that's not exactly enough to say it's worth the effort. =) Plus GitHub > >could be chosen in the end. > > Experime

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

On 12/02/2014 08:50 AM, Brett Cannon wrote: > > So do people want PEPs or experimentation first? Experiments are good -- then we'll have real (if limited) data... which is better than no data. ;) -- ~Ethan~ signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

Brett Cannon writes: > Well, if I'm going to be the Great Decider on this then I can say > upfront I'm taking a pragmatic view of preferring open but not > mandating it, preferring hg over git but not ruling out a switch, > preferring Python-based tools but not viewing it as a negative to not > u

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

On Dec 02, 2014, at 07:20 PM, Brett Cannon wrote: >No because only two people have said they like the experiment idea so >that's not exactly enough to say it's worth the effort. =) Plus GitHub >could be chosen in the end. Experimenting could be useful, although if the traffic is disproportionate

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

On 12/02/2014 11:21 AM, Brett Cannon wrote: > > I should say I will take a few days to think about this and then I will start > a new thread outlining what I think we should be aiming for to help frame the > whole discussion and to give proponents something to target. Thanks for taking this on, Br

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

I should say I will take a few days to think about this and then I will start a new thread outlining what I think we should be aiming for to help frame the whole discussion and to give proponents something to target. On Tue Dec 02 2014 at 2:20:16 PM Brett Cannon wrote: > On Tue Dec 02 2014 at 2:

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

On Tue Dec 02 2014 at 2:15:09 PM Donald Stufft wrote: > > On Dec 2, 2014, at 2:09 PM, Brett Cannon wrote: > > > > On Tue Dec 02 2014 at 1:59:20 PM Barry Warsaw wrote: > >> On Dec 02, 2014, at 06:21 PM, Brett Cannon wrote: >> >> >Well, if I'm going to be the Great Decider on this then I can say

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

> On Dec 2, 2014, at 2:09 PM, Brett Cannon wrote: > > > > On Tue Dec 02 2014 at 1:59:20 PM Barry Warsaw > wrote: > On Dec 02, 2014, at 06:21 PM, Brett Cannon wrote: > > >Well, if I'm going to be the Great Decider on this then I can say upfront > >I'm taking a pragmat

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

On Tue Dec 02 2014 at 1:59:20 PM Barry Warsaw wrote: > On Dec 02, 2014, at 06:21 PM, Brett Cannon wrote: > > >Well, if I'm going to be the Great Decider on this then I can say upfront > >I'm taking a pragmatic view of preferring open but not mandating it, > >preferring hg over git but not ruling

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

On Tue Dec 02 2014 at 1:52:49 PM Antoine Pitrou wrote: > On Tue, 02 Dec 2014 18:21:39 + > Brett Cannon wrote: > > > > So if we did have a discussion at the summit and someone decided to argue > > for FLOSS vs. not as a key factor then I would politely cut them off and > > say that doesn't ma

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

On Dec 02, 2014, at 06:21 PM, Brett Cannon wrote: >Well, if I'm going to be the Great Decider on this then I can say upfront >I'm taking a pragmatic view of preferring open but not mandating it, >preferring hg over git but not ruling out a switch, preferring Python-based >tools but not viewing it

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

On Tue, 02 Dec 2014 18:21:39 + Brett Cannon wrote: > > So if we did have a discussion at the summit and someone decided to argue > for FLOSS vs. not as a key factor then I would politely cut them off and > say that doesn't matter to me and move on. As I said, I would moderate the > conversat

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

On Tue, Dec 2, 2014 at 10:21 AM, Brett Cannon wrote: > > > On Tue Dec 02 2014 at 1:05:22 PM Guido van Rossum > wrote: > >> Thanks for taking charge, Brett. >> >> I personally think this shouldn't be brought up at the summit -- it's >> likely to just cause lots of heat about git vs. hg, free vs.

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

On Tue Dec 02 2014 at 1:05:22 PM Guido van Rossum wrote: > Thanks for taking charge, Brett. > > I personally think this shouldn't be brought up at the summit -- it's > likely to just cause lots of heat about git vs. hg, free vs. not-free, > "loyalty" to free or open tools, the weighing of core co

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

Thanks for taking charge, Brett. I personally think this shouldn't be brought up at the summit -- it's likely to just cause lots of heat about git vs. hg, free vs. not-free, "loyalty" to free or open tools, the weighing of core committers' preferences vs. outside contributors' preferences, GitHub'

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

On Tue, Dec 2, 2014 at 9:23 AM, Tres Seaver wrote: > I'd vote for experimentation, to ground the discussion in actual practice. +1. There may be a number of practical gotchas that very well might not surface in PEPs and should be documented and planned for. Likewise with benefits. ___

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 12/02/2014 11:50 AM, Brett Cannon wrote: > So do people want PEPs or experimentation first? I'd vote for experimentation, to ground the discussion in actual practice. Tres. - -- ===

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

So I was waiting for Nick to say what he wanted to do for the peps repo since I view it as I get 2/3 of the choices and he gets the other third. The way I view it, the options are: 1. Move to GitHub 2. Move to Bitbucket 3. Improve our current tooling (either through new hosting setup and

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

On 2 December 2014 at 01:38, Guido van Rossum wrote: > As far as I'm concerned I'm just waiting for your decision now. The RhodeCode team got in touch with me offline to suggest the possibility of using RhodeCode Enterprise as a self-hosted solution rather than a volunteer-supported installation

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

On Sun, Nov 30, 2014 at 10:25 AM, Donald Stufft wrote: > > On Nov 30, 2014, at 1:05 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote: > > I don't feel it's my job to accept or reject this PEP, but I do have an > opinion. > > > So here’s a question. If it’s not your job to accept or reject this PEP, > whose is it? Thi

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

On Mon, Dec 01, 2014 at 03:52:21PM -0500, Terry Reedy wrote: > On 12/1/2014 11:42 AM, Wes Turner wrote: > >Is there an issue ticket or a wiki page that supports > > https://wiki.python.org/moin/ > > >Markdown/ReStructuredText, > > whoops, I am not sure what moin uses. Let's see... https://

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

On 12/1/2014 11:42 AM, Wes Turner wrote: Here's a roundup of tools links, to make sure we're all on the same page: Git HG Rosetta Stone === https://github.com/sympy/sympy/wiki/Git-hg-rosetta-stone#rosetta-stone BugWarrior === BugWarrior works with many issue tracker APIs

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

Hi! On Mon, Dec 01, 2014 at 10:42:16AM -0600, Wes Turner wrote: > Here's a roundup of tools links, to make sure we're all on the same page: Very nice! > Is there an issue ticket or a wiki page that supports > Markdown/ReStructuredText, > where I could put this? Which URI do we assign to thi

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

On 12/01/2014 08:42 AM, Wes Turner wrote: > > Here's a roundup of tools links, to make sure we're all on the same page: Thanks! -- ~Ethan~ signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

On 12/01/2014 01:05 PM, Matěj Cepl wrote: > On 2014-12-01, 07:43 GMT, Donald Stufft wrote: >>> I do not choose tools simply because they are written in >>> Python -- I choose them because, being written in Python, I >>> I can work on them if I need to: I can enhance them, I can >>> fix them, I ca

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

Here's a roundup of tools links, to make sure we're all on the same page: Git HG Rosetta Stone === https://github.com/sympy/sympy/wiki/Git-hg-rosetta-stone#rosetta-stone BugWarrior === BugWarrior works with many issue tracker APIs https://warehouse.python.org/project/bugw

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

On 2014-12-01, 07:43 GMT, Donald Stufft wrote: >> I do not choose tools simply because they are written in >> Python -- I choose them because, being written in Python, I >> I can work on them if I need to: I can enhance them, I can >> fix them, I can learn from them. > > Git uses the idea of smal

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

As far as I'm concerned I'm just waiting for your decision now. On Mon, Dec 1, 2014 at 7:07 AM, Brett Cannon wrote: > > > On Sun Nov 30 2014 at 8:25:25 PM Guido van Rossum > wrote: > >> Can we please stop the hg-vs-git discussion? We've established earlier >> that the capabilities of the DVCS i

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

On Sun Nov 30 2014 at 8:25:25 PM Guido van Rossum wrote: > Can we please stop the hg-vs-git discussion? We've established earlier > that the capabilities of the DVCS itself (hg or git) are not a > differentiator, and further he-said-she-said isn't going to change > anybody's opinion. > +1 from m

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

On Mon, Dec 1, 2014 at 12:25 AM, Ethan Furman wrote: > One argument that keeps coming up is transferability of knowledge: > knowing git and/or GitHub, as many seem to, it > therefore becomes easier to commit to the Python ecosystem. > > What about the transferability of Python knowledge? Because

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

On Tue, Dec 02, 2014 at 12:37:22AM +1100, Steven D'Aprano wrote: [...] > It's one thing to say that using hg is discouraging contributors, and > that hg is much more popular. /s/more/less/ -- Steven ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

On Sun, Nov 30, 2014 at 02:56:22PM -0500, Donald Stufft wrote: > As I mentioned in my other email, we’re already supporting two > different tools, and it’s a hope of mine to use this as a sort of > testbed to moving the other repositories as well. If we go down this path, can we have some *conc

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

On Mon, 1 Dec 2014 08:46:46 +0100 Matěj Cepl wrote: > On 2014-12-01, 02:12 GMT, Pierre-Yves David wrote: > > Migrating the DVCS content is usually easy. > > This is lovely mantra, but do you speak from your own > experience? I did move rope from Bitbucket to > https://github.com/python-rope an

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

On 2014-12-01, 00:50 GMT, Donald Stufft wrote: > The only thing that is true is that git users are more likely to use the > ability to rewrite history than Mercurial users are, but you’ll typically > find that people generally don’t do this on public branches, only on private > branches. And I wou

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

On 2014-12-01, 02:12 GMT, Pierre-Yves David wrote: > Migrating the DVCS content is usually easy. This is lovely mantra, but do you speak from your own experience? I did move rope from Bitbucket to https://github.com/python-rope and it was A LOT of work (particularly issues, existing pull reques

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

On 2014-11-30, 11:18 GMT, Ben Finney wrote: > Donald Stufft writes: > >> I think there is a big difference here between using a closed source >> VCS or compiler and using a closed source code host. Namely in that >> the protocol is defined by git so switching from one host to another >> is easy. >

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

On Sun, 30 Nov 2014 22:06:03 -0500 Terry Reedy wrote: > > If the mirror experiment is successful, the devguide might be the next > experiment. It does not have any one maintainer, and *is* tied to the > tracker. But herein lies the problem with the devguide. There are 22 > issues, down just

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

> On Dec 1, 2014, at 1:25 AM, Ethan Furman wrote: > > One argument that keeps coming up is transferability of knowledge: knowing > git and/or GitHub, as many seem to, it > therefore becomes easier to commit to the Python ecosystem. > > What about the transferability of Python knowledge? Beca

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

One argument that keeps coming up is transferability of knowledge: knowing git and/or GitHub, as many seem to, it therefore becomes easier to commit to the Python ecosystem. What about the transferability of Python knowledge? Because I know Python, I can customize hg; because I know Python I

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

Ben Finney writes: > Whether that is a *problem* is a matter of debate, but the fact that > Git's common workflow commonly discards information that some consider > valuable, is a simple fact. It *was* a simple fact in git 0.99. Since the advent of reflogs (years ago), it is simply false. Wo

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

On 11/30/2014 07:43 PM, Donald Stufft wrote: The idea that unless Python as a project always picks something written in Python over something written in something else we’re somehow signaling to the world that if you want to write X kind of tool you should do it in some other language is lau

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

On 11/30/2014 8:19 PM, Pierre-Yves David wrote: Mercurial have robust Windows support for a long time. This support is native (not using cygwin) and handle properly all kind of strange corner case. We have large scale ecosystem (http://unity3d.com/) using Mercurial on windows. We also have full

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

> On Nov 30, 2014, at 10:08 PM, Pierre-Yves David > wrote: > > > > On 11/29/2014 06:01 PM, Donald Stufft wrote: >> The reason the PEP primarily focuses on the popularity of the the tool is >> because as you mentioned, issues like poor documentation, bad support for a >> particular platform, a

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

On 11/29/2014 06:01 PM, Donald Stufft wrote: The reason the PEP primarily focuses on the popularity of the the tool is because as you mentioned, issues like poor documentation, bad support for a particular platform, a particular workflow not being very good can be solved by working with the too

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

On 11/30/2014 4:45 PM, Donald Stufft wrote: I think you are stimulating more heated discussion than is necessary by trying to do too much, both in terms of physical changes and in terms of opinion persuasion. I am reminded of the integer division change. The initial discussion was initially

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

On Sun, Nov 30, 2014 at 8:09 PM, Pierre-Yves David < pierre-yves.da...@ens-lyon.org> wrote: > > > On 11/30/2014 08:44 AM, Brett Cannon wrote: > >> For me personally, if I knew a simple patch integrated cleanly and >> passed on at least one buildbot -- when it wasn't a platform-specific >> fix -- t

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

On 11/30/2014 09:09 AM, Donald Stufft wrote: Even converting between two FLOSS tools is an amazing amount of work. Look at >what Eric Raymond did with reposurgeon to convert from Bazaar to git. I fail to see how this is a reasonable argument to make at all since, as you mentioned, converting

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

On 11/29/2014 05:15 PM, Chris Angelico wrote: On Sun, Nov 30, 2014 at 11:37 AM, Donald Stufft wrote: I also don’t know how to do this. When I’m doing multiple things for CPython my “branching” strategy is essentially using hg diff to create a patch file with my “branch” name (``hg diff > my-b

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

On 11/30/2014 08:30 AM, Donald Stufft wrote: On Nov 30, 2014, at 2:08 AM, Larry Hastings mailto:la...@hastings.org>> wrote: On 11/29/2014 04:37 PM, Donald Stufft wrote: On Nov 29, 2014, at 7:15 PM, Alex Gaynor wrote: Despite being a regular hg user for years, I have no idea how to create

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

On 11/30/2014 08:44 AM, Brett Cannon wrote: For me personally, if I knew a simple patch integrated cleanly and passed on at least one buildbot -- when it wasn't a platform-specific fix -- then I could easily push a "Commit" button and be done with it (although this assumes single branch committ

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

On Sun, Nov 30, 2014 at 6:44 PM, Donald Stufft wrote: > Yea this is essentially what I meant. We already have “unofficial” mirrors > for PEPs and CPython itself on Github that are updated a few times a day. > It wouldn’t be very difficult I think to make them official mirrors and > update them imm

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

On Sun, Nov 30, 2014 at 6:40 PM, Donald Stufft wrote: > I’m not sure if it got lost in the discussion or if it was purposely left > out. However I did come up with another idea, where we enable people to make > PRs against these repositories with PR integration within roundup. Using the > fact tha

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

> On Nov 30, 2014, at 8:41 PM, Eric Snow wrote: > > On Sun, Nov 30, 2014 at 6:25 PM, Donald Stufft wrote: >> The technical benefits mostly come from Github generally being a higher >> quality product than it’s competitors, both FOSS and not. > > Here's a solution to allow contribution via PR w

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

On Sun, Nov 30, 2014 at 6:25 PM, Donald Stufft wrote: >The technical benefits mostly come from Github generally being a higher > quality product than it’s competitors, both FOSS and not. Here's a solution to allow contribution via PR while not requiring anything to switch VCS or hosting: 1. Set

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

> On Nov 30, 2014, at 8:24 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote: > > Can we please stop the hg-vs-git discussion? We've established earlier that > the capabilities of the DVCS itself (hg or git) are not a differentiator, and > further he-said-she-said isn't going to change anybody's opinion. > > What's

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

On 1 December 2014 01:17:02 CET, Ben Finney wrote: >Donald Stufft writes: > >> I have never heard of git losing history. > >In my experience talking with Git users about this problem, that >depends >on a very narrow definition of “losing history”. > >Git encourages re-writing, and thereby losin

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

Can we please stop the hg-vs-git discussion? We've established earlier that the capabilities of the DVCS itself (hg or git) are not a differentiator, and further he-said-she-said isn't going to change anybody's opinion. What's left is preferences of core developers, possibly capabilities of the po

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

> On Nov 30, 2014, at 8:11 PM, Pierre-Yves David > wrote: > > > > On 11/30/2014 08:45 AM, Donald Stufft wrote: >> I don’t make branches in Mercurial because >> i’m afraid I’m going to push a permanent branch to hg.python.org >> and screw >> something up. > > There is n

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

On 11/30/2014 04:31 AM, Paul Moore wrote: On 29 November 2014 at 23:27, Donald Stufft wrote: >In previous years there was concern about how well supported git was on Windows >in comparison to Mercurial. However git has grown to support Windows as a first >class citizen. In addition to that, f

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

On 11/30/2014 08:45 AM, Donald Stufft wrote: I don’t make branches in Mercurial because i’m afraid I’m going to push a permanent branch to hg.python.org and screw something up. There is no need to be afraid there, Mercurial is not going to let you push new head/branch

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

On 11/30/2014 04:31 AM, Paul Moore wrote: On 29 November 2014 at 23:27, Donald Stufft wrote: In previous years there was concern about how well supported git was on Windows in comparison to Mercurial. However git has grown to support Windows as a first class citizen. In addition to that, for

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

> On Nov 30, 2014, at 7:43 PM, Ben Finney wrote: > > Donald Stufft writes: > >> It’s not lost, [… a long, presumably-accurate discourse of the many >> conditions that must be met before …] you can restore it. > > This isn't the place to discuss the details of Git's internals, I think. > I'm m

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

Donald Stufft writes: > It’s not lost, [… a long, presumably-accurate discourse of the many > conditions that must be met before …] you can restore it. This isn't the place to discuss the details of Git's internals, I think. I'm merely pointing out that: > The important thing to realize is that

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

> On Nov 30, 2014, at 7:17 PM, Ben Finney wrote: > > Donald Stufft writes: > >> I have never heard of git losing history. > > In my experience talking with Git users about this problem, that depends > on a very narrow definition of “losing history”. > > Git encourages re-writing, and thereby

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

Donald Stufft writes: > I have never heard of git losing history. In my experience talking with Git users about this problem, that depends on a very narrow definition of “losing history”. Git encourages re-writing, and thereby losing prior versions of, the history of a branch. The commit inform

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

On 11/30/2014 1:05 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote: I don't feel it's my job to accept or reject this PEP, but I do have an opinion. ... - I am basically the only remaining active PEP editor, so I see most PEP contributions by non-core-committers. Almost all of these uses github. Not bitbucket, not

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

On Sun, Nov 30, 2014 at 10:55 AM, Barry Warsaw wrote: > On Nov 30, 2014, at 09:54 AM, Ian Cordasco wrote: > > >- Migrating "data" from GitHub is easy. There are free-as-in-freedom > >tools to do it and the only cost is the time it would take to monitor > >the process > > *Extracting* data may be

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

On 11/30/2014 2:33 PM, Donald Stufft wrote: So a goal of mine here is to sort of use these as a bit of a test bed. Moving CPython itself is a big and drastic change with a lot of implications, but moving the “support” repositories is not nearly as much, especially with a read only mirror on hg.p

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

> On Nov 30, 2014, at 3:26 PM, Brett Cannon wrote: > > > > On Sun Nov 30 2014 at 2:33:35 PM Donald Stufft > wrote: > >> On Nov 30, 2014, at 2:19 PM, Brett Cannon > > wrote: >> >> All very true, but if we can't improve both sides then we are

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

> On Nov 30, 2014, at 4:05 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > > On Sun, 30 Nov 2014 10:05:01 -0800 > Guido van Rossum wrote: >> >> I bring this up to emphasize that (unlike GNU software and the FSF) Python >> has no additional hidden agenda of bringing freedom to all software. > > As far as GNU and

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

On Sun, 30 Nov 2014 10:05:01 -0800 Guido van Rossum wrote: > > I bring this up to emphasize that (unlike GNU software and the FSF) Python > has no additional hidden agenda of bringing freedom to all software. As far as GNU and the FSF are concerned, I don't think the agenda is "hidden" at all ;-

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

On Sun, 30 Nov 2014 19:19:50 + Brett Cannon wrote: > > As the PEP points out, the devguide, devinabox, and the PEPs have such a > shallow development process that hosting them on Bitbucket wouldn't be a > big thing. But if we don't view this as a long-term step towards moving > cpython develo

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

On 11/30/2014 11:56 AM, Donald Stufft wrote: >> On Nov 30, 2014, at 2:28 PM, Ethan Furman wrote: >> >> My issues with GitHub range from selfish to philosophical: >> >> - (selfish) I don't want to learn git > > Note: That you don’t actually have to learn git, you can clone a git > repository > w

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

On Sun Nov 30 2014 at 2:33:35 PM Donald Stufft wrote: > > On Nov 30, 2014, at 2:19 PM, Brett Cannon wrote: > > All very true, but if we can't improve both sides then we are simply going > to end up with even more patches that we take a while to get around to. I > want to end up with a solution t

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

On Mon, Dec 1, 2014 at 6:28 AM, Ethan Furman wrote: > My issues with GitHub range from selfish to philosophical: > > - (selfish) I don't want to learn git This ties in directly with the popularity argument. How many people are there who know hg and don't know git? How many who know git and don'

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

> On Nov 30, 2014, at 2:28 PM, Ethan Furman wrote: > > On 11/30/2014 10:05 AM, Guido van Rossum wrote: > >> Python has a long history (all the way back to my choice of a MIT-style >> license for the first release) of mixing "free" >> and "non-free" uses and tools -- for example on Windows we c

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

> On Nov 30, 2014, at 2:19 PM, Brett Cannon wrote: > > All very true, but if we can't improve both sides then we are simply going to > end up with even more patches that we take a while to get around to. I want > to end up with a solution that advances the situation for *both* committers > an

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

On 11/30/2014 10:05 AM, Guido van Rossum wrote: > Python has a long history (all the way back to my choice of a MIT-style > license for the first release) of mixing "free" > and "non-free" uses and tools -- for example on Windows we consciously chose > to align ourselves with the platform > tool

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

On Sun Nov 30 2014 at 12:00:20 PM Donald Stufft wrote: > > On Nov 30, 2014, at 11:44 AM, Brett Cannon wrote: > > > > On Sun Nov 30 2014 at 10:55:26 AM Ian Cordasco > wrote: > >> On Sun, Nov 30, 2014 at 7:01 AM, Antoine Pitrou >> wrote: >> > On Sun, 30 Nov 2014 16:23:08 +1100 >> > Chris Angelic

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

> On Nov 30, 2014, at 1:05 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote: > > I don't feel it's my job to accept or reject this PEP, but I do have an > opinion. So here’s a question. If it’s not your job to accept or reject this PEP, whose is it? This is probably an issue we’re never going to get actual consens

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

Can this discussion be split off into a separate discussion. It's tangential to the PEP and clearly not actively progressing so it doesn't seem productive. I don't care where it's taken, but I don't think this belongs here. Speculation on the actions of the msysgit project are not fair talk for thi

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

On 30 November 2014 at 16:08, Donald Stufft wrote: >> On Nov 30, 2014, at 7:31 AM, Paul Moore wrote: >> >> On 29 November 2014 at 23:27, Donald Stufft wrote: >>> In previous years there was concern about how well supported git was on >>> Windows >>> in comparison to Mercurial. However git has g

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

I don't feel it's my job to accept or reject this PEP, but I do have an opinion. The scope of the PSF organization is far beyond just the Python language -- it includes the Python developer community, the Python user community, 3rd party Python packages and their communities (even if some have cre

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

> On Nov 30, 2014, at 11:17, Chris Angelico wrote: > > On Sun, Nov 30, 2014 at 8:54 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote: >> On 30 November 2014 at 15:23, Chris Angelico wrote: >>> Python is already using quite a bit of non-free software in its >>> ecosystem. The Windows builds of CPython are made with Micr

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

On 11/29/2014 10:14 PM, Demian Brecht wrote: > > On Sat, Nov 29, 2014 at 3:27 PM, Donald Stufft > wrote: >> As promised in the "Move selected documentation repos to PSF BitBucket >> account?" thread I've written up a PEP for moving selected repositories from >> hg.python.

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

> On Nov 30, 2014, at 11:30 AM, Donald Stufft wrote: > > Comments like this make me feel like I didn’t explain myself very well in the > PEP. It’s been pointed out to me that Mercurial bookmarks have been core since 1.8 and since I felt like the technical arguments were really secondary to the

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

On Nov 30, 2014 11:09 AM, "Donald Stufft" wrote: > > > > On Nov 30, 2014, at 11:55 AM, Barry Warsaw wrote: > > > > On Nov 30, 2014, at 09:54 AM, Ian Cordasco wrote: > > > >> - Migrating "data" from GitHub is easy. There are free-as-in-freedom > >> tools to do it and the only cost is the time it w

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

> On Nov 30, 2014, at 12:09 PM, Donald Stufft wrote: > >> >> On Nov 30, 2014, at 11:55 AM, Barry Warsaw wrote: >> >> On Nov 30, 2014, at 09:54 AM, Ian Cordasco wrote: >> >>> - Migrating "data" from GitHub is easy. There are free-as-in-freedom >>> tools to do it and the only cost is the time

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

> On Nov 30, 2014, at 11:55 AM, Barry Warsaw wrote: > > On Nov 30, 2014, at 09:54 AM, Ian Cordasco wrote: > >> - Migrating "data" from GitHub is easy. There are free-as-in-freedom >> tools to do it and the only cost is the time it would take to monitor >> the process > > *Extracting* data may

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

> On Nov 30, 2014, at 11:44 AM, Brett Cannon wrote: > > > > On Sun Nov 30 2014 at 10:55:26 AM Ian Cordasco > wrote: > On Sun, Nov 30, 2014 at 7:01 AM, Antoine Pitrou > wrote: > > On Sun, 30 Nov 2014 16:23:08 +1100 > > Chris Angel

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

On Nov 30, 2014, at 09:54 AM, Ian Cordasco wrote: >- Migrating "data" from GitHub is easy. There are free-as-in-freedom >tools to do it and the only cost is the time it would take to monitor >the process *Extracting* data may be easy, but migrating it is a different story. As the Mailman project

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

On Sun, Nov 30, 2014, at 11:45, Donald Stufft wrote: > > > On Nov 30, 2014, at 11:28 AM, Brett Cannon wrote: > > > > > > > > On Sat Nov 29 2014 at 7:16:34 PM Alex Gaynor > > wrote: > > Donald Stufft stufft.io > writes: > > > > > > > > [word

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

On Sun Nov 30 2014 at 10:55:26 AM Ian Cordasco wrote: > On Sun, Nov 30, 2014 at 7:01 AM, Antoine Pitrou > wrote: > > On Sun, 30 Nov 2014 16:23:08 +1100 > > Chris Angelico wrote: > >> > >> Yes, GitHub is proprietary. But all of your actual code is stored in > >> git, which is free, and it's easy

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 481 - Migrate Some Supporting Repositories to Git and Github

> On Nov 30, 2014, at 11:28 AM, Brett Cannon wrote: > > > > On Sat Nov 29 2014 at 7:16:34 PM Alex Gaynor > wrote: > Donald Stufft stufft.io > writes: > > > > > [words words words] > > > > I strongly support this PEP. I'd like to share two pi

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