w let's just use the bug
> tracker issue for code reviews and the like.
For anyone who isn't following the issue: A PEP proposing a different DSL
will be forthcoming either this or next weekend.
Stefan Krah
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o specify the semantics of the DSL.
Stefan Krah
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s fundamentally wrong to scrutinize licenses, provided
that the discussion stays civil and factual.
IIRC Debian has such a list because people got annoyed with the traffic
on other lists.
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s will arise over
and over again (probably on python-dev).
Why would it help to resolve such an issue (if it is an issue at all!)
for a single person on a private mailing list?
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, at least one patent attorney *is* posting on debian-legal.
Jesse is right: the list may turn into a playground. In that case, at least
the traffic is not on python-dev.
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Jesse Noller wrote:
> > Why would it help to resolve such an issue (if it is an issue at all!)
> > for a single person on a private mailing list?
>
>
> See: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2013-February/124463.html
That was quick.
tures can't do what the proposed DSL tries to achieve. They'd
> >> at least make it clear that the intention is to make things more
> >> Python-like, and would at the same time provide the documentation.
> >
> > That's why Stefan Krah is writing a comp
is that a
compromise is being worked upon and will be published by Larry in
a revised PEP.
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o permits embedding Python code inside C files, which
> is executed in-place when Argument Clinic processes the file. Embedded code
> looks like this:
The example in posixmodule.c takes up a lot of space and from the perspective
of auditing the effects it's a little like following a longjmp.
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gjmp.
>
>
> I got strong feedback that I needed more examples. That was the logical place
> for them. Can you suggest a better spot, or spots?
I'm concerned about the whole concept (see above).
Stefan Krah
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arg_type = int (*converter)(PyObject *, void *)
arg_use_ptr = false },
MainArg { arg_name = path,
arg_type = path_t,
arg_use_ptr = true }]},
[...]
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sed by Guido. [5]_ )
I think the entire PEP would be easier to understand if the main sections
only contained the envisaged end result and all current preprocessor
deficiencies were listed in a single isolated section.
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Guido van Rossum wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 18, 2013 at 3:36 AM, Stefan Krah wrote:
> > Larry Hastings wrote:
> >> * The DSL currently makes no provision for specifying per-parameter
> >> type annotations. This is something explicitly supported in Python;
> >>
imal.py): time: 17.74s
=
For database work and such the numbers should be about the same.
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ge the type again.
The episode shows that pickling backwards compatibility is one thing
to consider, but I'm probably stating the obvious here. :)
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mechanism to say whether this is
a particularly good benchmark. If it is, perhaps we should devise another
strategy for loading C extensions.
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Stefan Krah wrote:
> import sys
>
> for i in range(1):
> import decimal
> del sys.modules('decimal')
> del sys.modules('_decimal')
^^^
This happens when a Linux user is forced to use Putty :(
ion.
Another radical way would be to have importlib detect that the C version
is present and load it in the first place. For _decimal this should work,
since it's self-contained. For other modules probably not, so there would
need to be some way of distiguishing between modules that are
; Just create a _pydecimal module (like _pyio).
Thanks, I'll try that.
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e any reasons not to do that?
Stefan Krah
[1] _decimal has always set the module name to 'decimal' because of that.
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Nick Coghlan wrote:
> On 12 Oct 2013 05:49, "Eric Snow" wrote:
> >
> > On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 1:41 PM, Stefan Krah wrote:
> > > Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> > >> Just create a _pydecimal module (like _pyio).
> > >
> > > T
0m0.036s
sys 0m0.004s
With the patch for #19232:
==
$ time ./python -c "pass"
real0m0.023s
user0m0.016s
sys 0m0.004s
But I agree that decimal.py is a special case, since it's very large *and*
imports many other modules.
Stefan Krah
her implementations could import their (hypothetical) accelerators
in the facade module and override selected symbols there (I think Nick
mentioned that already).
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xt() docs explicitly
say that the "current context" is swapped.
Of course there are multiple ways to use individual contexts for each
coroutine. Use the context methods or pass the context to the Decimal
methods.
Stefan Krah
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e the same front end (Comeau?).
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bout the vast majority of Python invocations
> being launched by the web browser?
"Python invocations which are exposed to hostile input". ;)
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have to predict the
behavior of multiple layers of abstractions.
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on did in the
bug report: block until entropy is available.
Well, it *was* possible with SysVinit ... :)
Python is not the only application that needs a secure /dev/urandom.
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bably be enough for the start. Obviously things
like variable-length arrays should never be used anyway.
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dename: trusty
I'm not in the habit of updating my OS constantly.
[Before this attracts some of the usual lectures, I know how to install
OpenSSL, thanks.]
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hard to maintain across the python versions and python
> implementations. Replicating the exact CPython behavior (for each
> CPython version too!) is a major nightmare for such specific
> scenarios.
>
> I propose the following:
>
> * we raise
illy example):
# let x = (10 * 20 : int);;
val x : int = 200
So I'm quite happy with the proposed syntax in the PEP, perhaps the
parenthesized expression annotations could also be added. But these
are only very rarely needed.
Stefan Krah
_
rry :-/
Indeed, perhaps all core devs should take a course at this "web programming
bootcamp" (whatever that is), so we finally know how to use the command line. ;)
Linus should also attend the "bootcamp", so he can learn git and the command
line:
https://github.com/torvalds
ng .patch to the PR URL, downloading the thing,
editing as necessary and crediting the author in the commit message would
be much much faster.
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context, and has similar performance characteristics.
I think it'll work, but can we agree on hard numbers like max 2% slowdown
for the non-threaded case and 4% for applications that only use threads?
I'm a bit cautious because other C-extension state-managing PEPs didn't
come close
the top to set the
> defaults for the rest of the script.
+100. The only thing that makes sense for decimal is to change localcontext()
to be automatically async-safe while preserving the rest of the semantics.
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On Sat, Aug 26, 2017 at 12:21:44PM -0400, Yury Selivanov wrote:
> On Sat, Aug 26, 2017 at 7:45 AM, Stefan Krah wrote:
> >> This generic caching approach is similar to what the current C
> >> implementation of ``decimal`` does to cache the the current decimal
> >
On Sun, Aug 27, 2017 at 11:19:20AM -0400, Yury Selivanov wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 27, 2017 at 6:08 AM, Stefan Krah wrote:
> > On Sat, Aug 26, 2017 at 04:13:24PM -0700, Nathaniel Smith wrote:
> >> It's perfectly reasonable to have a script where you call
> >> decimal.s
On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 11:23:12AM -0400, Yury Selivanov wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 7:19 AM, Stefan Krah wrote:
> > Okay, so if I understand this correctly we actually will not have dynamic
> > scoping for regular functions: bar() has returned, so the new context
> >
On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 12:12:00PM -0400, Yury Selivanov wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 11:52 AM, Stefan Krah wrote:
> [..]
> > But the state "leaks in" as per your previous example:
> >
> > async def bar():
> > # use decimal wi
sync get(var)
and making async-safe context managers explicit
async with decimal.localcontext():
...
would feel more consistent. I know generators are a problem, but even
allowing something like "async set" in generators would be a step up.
Stefan Krah
_
libmpdec++ functions.
libmpdec++ passes both the Python test suite and deccheck.py.
For a short libmpdec++ introduction, see:
http://www.bytereef.org/mpdecimal/quickstart.html
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To
r"
| w -> "Correct answer"
| _ -> "Unreachable";;
Warning 26: unused variable w.
Warning 11: this match case is unused.
val whereis : int -> string =
# whereis 42;;
- : string = "Correct answer"
#
Stefan Krah
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stdout=subprocess.PIPE).communicate()[0]
One of the many things that just work out of the box. -10 on removing
distutils from the stdlib. Freezing it is fine.
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On Fri, Sep 04, 2020 at 01:10:37PM -0400, Paul Ganssle wrote:
> On 9/4/20 12:45 PM, Stefan Krah wrote:
> > Since distutils does not change, why remove it? It is a lot of work
> > for people with little gain.
>
> If we don't remove it, we should at least freeze the bug
AM Stefan Krah wrote:
>
> >
> > All the time, especially when I'm writing them. I imagine that there's
> > a huge amount of internal company code that discourages use of pip
> > installed packages as well. Or has an air-gapped network in the first
> >
nternet.
Air-gapped systems were just an illustration of the problem. I did not
anticipate that people would take it as the centerpiece of my arguments.
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nance patches are from a variety of
active core devs (this includes, of course, the MSVC patches from you).
Will they submit patches to setuptools from now on?
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ns, or would perhaps
a Python developer be willing to work with me to make it compatible? I'm
asking this to avoid doing work that would not find acceptance afterwards.
Thanks,
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[email protected] wrote:
> Shouldn't this be on python-ideas?
I found previous discussions about "Decimal in C" on python-dev, that's why
used this list.
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expat directory in Modules/:
SLOCDirectory SLOC-by-Language (Sorted)
11406 expat ansic=11406
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t; having time to spend on maintenance of this code for the
> forseeable future?
Yes. Generally speaking, I expect the code to be low-maintenance.
It would be even easier if all major compilers supported exact
width C99 types and __uint128_t, but this is wishful thinking.
Stefan Krah
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outside the decimal realm
anyway.
Are there cases where == and != are actually needed to give a result
for NaNs?
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Raymond Hettinger wrote:
> [Stefan Krah]
> >in a (misguided) bugreport (http://bugs.python.org/issue7279) I was
> >questioning the reasons for allowing NaN comparisons with == and !=
> >rather than raising InvalidOperation.
>
> Do you have any actual use case issu
Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> Stefan Krah bytereef.org> writes:
> >
> > >>> d = {0:Decimal("NaN")}
> > >>> Decimal("NaN") in d.values()
> > False
> >
> > So, since non-decimal use cases are limited at best, the equality/
t('nan'): 10, 0: 20}
>>> 0 in d
True
>>> float('nan') in d
False
>>> d[float('nan')]
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "", line 1, in
KeyError: nan
>>>
I guess my point is that NaNs in lists and dicts are br
;>> format(Decimal(4), "->2")
'-4'
>>>
I propose to disallow digits and '+-' fill characters for numerical values,
except for the combination '0, left-padding'. Actually, I'd prefer to allow
only whitespace and '0, left-padding'.
Eric Smith wrote:
> Stefan Krah wrote:
> >Hi,
> >
> >I think http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3101/ is too liberal with the
> >choice of fill characters for numerical values. As far as I can see, this
> >is quite legal:
> >
> >
> >Python 2
Stefan Krah wrote:
> I simply think that apart from rounding, the output of format should not
> change the numerical value of its argument. The format functions in C do
> not allow this to happen. Are there other languages where this is possible?
Actually there are other cases: strfmon
ro ('0') character, this enables
zero-padding. This is equivalent to an alignment type of '=' and a
fill character of '0'."
The advantage of decimal is that the user has the option to suppress
commas. The behaviour of float is slightly easier to implement in C.
nse is public domain like:
http://www.hackersdelight.org/permissions.htm
Is this license good enough for inclusion in Python?
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Unsub
Thanks. I see that you've cc'd the PSF already, so I'll wait a while and
ask them directly if I don't hear anything.
Stefan Krah
Guido van Rossum wrote:
> I would ask a lawyer. If the PSF's lawyer (Van Lindbergh) is okay
> you're golden. Most lawyer
n following the discussion only passively so far, but I also
think this is the most logical solution.
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e for fractions in each function.
Or do you mean to outsource the whole computation to the fractions
module, which calls decimal only for the final division?
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9,
-capitals=1
+ capitals=1,
+strictness=1
)
Stefan Krah
[1] See: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2009-November/093910.html,
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2009-November/093952.html
___
control here.
I'd like to make it an option for people who don't want to write:
while x.compare_signal(7) != 0
And I think that an sNaN should really signal by default.
> Besides, this seems
> to me to be an orthogonal issue to the issue of mixing Decimal with
> other numeric
gerConversion has occurred
can check the flags, users who want an exception set the trap.
With the warnings module, users have to know (and deal with) two exception
handling/suppressing mechanisms.
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evious build.
b) I stopped http://www.python.org/dev/buildbot/builders/sparc solaris10 gcc
3.x/builds/558
and a pending build vanished (I'm certain that I used 'stop build' and not
'cancel all').
Is this a known issue?
Stefan Krah
_
Mark Dickinson wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 2, 2010 at 3:54 PM, Stefan Krah wrote:
> >
> > I looks like the 'stop build' button can a) cause subsequent builds to fail
> > and b) cause pending builds to be deleted from the queue.
> >
> >
> > a) http://www.
ot reach the site
at all, now a ping to svn.python.org gives 30% packet loss.
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, child_value)
> AssertionError: '8395a08e40454895be537a180539b7fb' ==
> '8395a08e40454895be537a180539b7fb'
>
> [...]
I reopened http://bugs.python.org/issue8621 . Could you comment there
and help resolve the test failure?
Stefan Krah
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monetary incentive because it
is tedious work, so does committing. A lot of the abandoned issues aren't
very glamorous either.
Also, from the work that Mark Lawrence has been doing on the tracker in
the past few weeks, it's apparent that a dedicated person can achieve a
lot without pa
geremy condra wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 5:31 AM, Stefan Krah wrote:
> > Jesse Noller wrote:
> >> On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 8:22 PM, geremy condra wrote:
> >> >>> (This seems to me like an area where a judicious application of PSF
> >> >&
lows trailing commas in array and struct
> initialization lists, but not in enum declarations. Without compiler
> help, enforcing this is an unnecessary maintenance burden.
xlc on AIX has problems:
http://bugs.python.org/issue5889
Stefan Krah
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.
That seems irrelevant to me. One of the main topics of this thread is
whether actual native speakers would be happy with ascii-only input for
float().
haiyang kang confirmed that this is the case. I hope that more
local speakers will contribute their views.
Stefan Krah
_
re easy to remember).
Given that sysconfig will always contain a certain amount of hackery and
will always change to accommodate new systems, I'd prefer that it remains
a standalone module.
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ht across multiple platforms; even
SIGINT catching does not work properly on OpenBSD:
http://bugs.python.org/issue8714
In short, I agree that having more signal handlers by default is not a
good idea.
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Stefan Krah wrote:
> Another test is hanging indefinitely (Ubuntu 64-bit):
>
> $ ./python Lib/test/crashers/nasty_eq_vs_dict.py
> [hanging with no output]
And this test does not report anything at all:
$ ./python Lib/test/crashers/compiler_recursion.py
[no output at all]
Victor Stinner wrote:
> Le lundi 20 décembre 2010 12:08:35, Stefan Krah a écrit :
> > I think the output is not particularly informative:
> >
> > $ ./python Lib/test/crashers/gc_inspection.py
> > (, , , , , ,
> > , , , ) Fatal Python error: Segmentation fault
>
Victor Stinner wrote:
> Le lundi 20 décembre 2010 15:55:57, Stefan Krah a écrit :
> > > The backtrace is valid. Don't you think that this backtrace is more
> > > useful than just "Segmentation fault"?
> >
> > Perhaps I misunderstood, but I
Victor Stinner wrote:
> Le lundi 20 décembre 2010 12:08:35, Stefan Krah a écrit :
> > Another test is hanging indefinitely (Ubuntu 64-bit):
> >
> > $ ./python Lib/test/crashers/nasty_eq_vs_dict.py
> > [hanging with no output]
>
> Oh, I understood. I always test
ard to tell if it's a gcc bug or not. gcc-4.6 increased
the ANSI compliance requirements yet again, exposing third party bugs
like this one:
http://sourceware.org/ml/libc-alpha/2010-12/msg9.html
There is an issue for this:
http://bugs.python.org/issue9880
Stefan Krah
_
e-month old issue anyway:
I narrowed the issue down to -ftree-vectorize, which is part of -O3.
Searching briefly for 'ftree-vectorize + bug' makes me think that
we should wait for the stable gcc-4.6.
Stefan Krah
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e command line, but
not in the web interface. Should these be closed to avoid confusion?
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nactive)
legacy-trunk 33482:cde58cd07e7d (inactive)
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Hi,
I can't update to v2.7 in the new cpython repository:
$ hg up v2.7
abort: unknown revision 'v2.7'!
Am I missing something here? My goal is to get the same directory state
as from this command:
svn co http://svn.python.org/projects/python/tags/r2
However, dnloop.patch is correct and must have CRLF line endings. How
can I disable the commit hook?
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Nick Coghlan wrote:
> > However, dnloop.patch is correct and must have CRLF line endings. How
> > can I disable the commit hook?
>
> Don't disable the commit hook, update .hgeol to flag that file as
> requiring CRLF line endings.
Thanks, that
branch, nothing happens at all.
Stefan Krah
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#2650 here:
http://hg.python.org/cpython/
Is this really what everyone wants? I think there's way too much
information on the tracker if you just want to see what actually
got committed.
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the mercurial
transition.
In this case, it's clearly Ubuntu who is going to break things. Still,
the proposed patch could make life a lot easier for many people.
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ke ROUND_UP), should be treated as opaque. If
a user relies on a specific type, he is on his own.
2) If it is not expected that custom types will used for a certain
data structure, then a fixed type can be used.
For cdecimal, the context actually falls under the recently added s
on.org/pipermail/python-dev/2011-April/110675.html
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t;>> from cdecimal import *
>>> class C():
... def __init__(self):
... self.traps = 'invalid'
...
>>> setcontext(C())
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "", line 1, in
TypeError: argument must be a context.
>>&
desirable for Python. Should all such projects be discouraged because
it does not benefit PyPy, Jython and IronPython?
I find these projects very interesting and wish them well, but IMO the
reality is that CPython will continue to be the dominant pl
ation) are in two separate test suites, one of which runs
tests against decimal.py and the other against decNumber. These tests
can easily take a week to run, so they can't be part of the regression
tests.
Stefan Krah
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though that the process will be very slow due to
lack of time and general reluctance to change APIs. And this is where
I see a potentially negative effect:
Is it worth to stall development over relatively minor issues? Will
these differences actually affect someone in practice? Will the
four P
should work around this glibc issue?
> If there are any helpful tests I can run on Gentoo, please let me know.
Yes, you could run the small test program. If you get the same results
as on Fedora, then I wonder why the Gentoo buildbots are green.
Do they have tr_TR and tr_TR.iso88599 installed
Stefan Krah wrote:
> Fedora's glibc has an additional issue with the Turkish 'I' that can
> be reproduced by the simple C program in:
>
> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=726536
OK, this runs successfully on Ubuntu Lucid and FreeBSD (if you change
the
in their getbuffer() methods.
- Introduce a new function PyMemoryView_FromBytes() that can be used
instead of PyMemoryView_FromBuffer(). PyMemoryView_FromBuffer()
is usually used in conjunction with PyBuffer_FillInfo(), which
sets the format specifier to "B".
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