On 27 October 2016 at 21:51, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
> On 27.10.2016 20:28, Mikhail V wrote:
>> So what about curly quotes? This would make at
>> least some sense, regardless of unicode.
>
> -1. This would break code using curly quotes in string literals,
> break existing Python IDEs and parsers.
>
>
On 27 October 2016 at 21:40, Random832 wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 27, 2016, at 14:28, Mikhail V wrote:
>> So you need umlauts to describe an algorithm and to explain yourself in
>> turkish?
>> Cool story. Poor uncle Garamond spins in his coffin...
>
> Why do you need 26 letters? The Romans didn't have s
On 27.10.2016 20:28, Mikhail V wrote:
> So what about curly quotes? This would make at
> least some sense, regardless of unicode.
-1. This would break code using curly quotes in string literals,
break existing Python IDEs and parsers.
BTW: I have yet to find a keyboard which allows me to enter
su
On Thu, Oct 27, 2016, at 14:28, Mikhail V wrote:
> So you need umlauts to describe an algorithm and to explain yourself in
> turkish?
> Cool story. Poor uncle Garamond spins in his coffin...
Why do you need 26 letters? The Romans didn't have so many. Hawaiian
gets by with half as many - even if yo
On 27 October 2016 at 06:24, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 27, 2016 at 2:06 PM, Mikhail V wrote:
>> Yep, double quotes , dashes and bullets are very valuable both for typography
>> and code (which to the largest part is the same)
>> So if just blank out this maximalistic BS:
>> ÀÁÂÃÄÅÆÇÈÉÊË
On 10/27/16 10:12 AM, Mikhail V wrote:
> On 27 October 2016 at 06:24, Chris Angelico wrote:
>
>> Unicode is here to stay.
> Congratulations. And chillax. I don't blog anywhere, have no time for that.
It's not clear at all where this thread is going, but it's clear to me
that it is off-topic.
--Ne
On 27 October 2016 at 06:24, Chris Angelico wrote:
> Unicode is here to stay.
Congratulations. And chillax. I don't blog anywhere, have no time for that.
Mikhail
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On Thu, Oct 27, 2016 at 2:06 PM, Mikhail V wrote:
> Yep, double quotes , dashes and bullets are very valuable both for typography
> and code (which to the largest part is the same)
> So if just blank out this maximalistic BS:
> ÀÁÂÃÄÅÆÇÈÉÊËÌÍÎÏÐÑÒÓÔÕÖÚÛÜÝÞßàáâãäåæçèéêëìíîïðñòóôõö
>
> And add few g
On 27 October 2016 at 03:51, Chris Barker wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 26, 2016 at 5:10 PM, Mikhail V wrote:
>>
>> 2) a table with characters that are reasonably valuable
>> and cover 99% of all programming, communication and typography in latin
>> script
>
>
> I think it's called latin-1
Yep, double qu
On Wed, Oct 26, 2016 at 5:10 PM, Mikhail V wrote:
> 2) a table with characters that are reasonably valuable
> and cover 99% of all programming, communication and typography in latin
> script
>
I think it's called latin-1
And I think you've mentioned numpy - there was a discussion a while back
a
On 27 October 2016 at 01:13, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 26, 2016 at 03:37:54AM +0200, Mikhail V wrote:
>
>> Extended ASCII
>
> There are over 200 different, mutually incompatible, so-called
> "extended ASCII" code pages and encodings.
>
> And of course it is ludicruous to think that you
On Thu, Oct 27, 2016 at 10:18 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> Not unless they want to get in trouble from the Académie française. They
> should write them « like this ».
« comme ça » ?
(Okay, I'm done)
ChrisA
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On Wed, Oct 26, 2016 at 08:59:20AM +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:
> So should French programmers write string literals «like this»?
Not unless they want to get in trouble from the Académie française. They
should write them « like this ».
*wink*
--
Steve
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On Wed, Oct 26, 2016 at 03:37:54AM +0200, Mikhail V wrote:
> Extended ASCII
There are over 200 different, mutually incompatible, so-called
"extended ASCII" code pages and encodings.
And of course it is ludicruous to think that you can fit all the world's
characters into only 8-bits. There are
This is a nice summary of quotation marks used in various languages:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quotation_mark#Specific_language_features
On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 9:37 PM, Mikhail V wrote:
> On 26 October 2016 at 00:53, Mikhail V wrote:
> > On 25 October 2016 at 23:50, Chris Barker wrote:
>
On 26 October 2016 at 00:53, Mikhail V wrote:
> On 25 October 2016 at 23:50, Chris Barker wrote:
>
>>that was kind of a throwaway comment,
>>but I think it's a LONG way out, but ideally,
>>the OWTDI would be "curly quotes". The fact that in ASCII,
>>a single quote and a apostrophe are teh same,
>
On 25 October 2016 at 23:50, Chris Barker wrote:
>that was kind of a throwaway comment,
>but I think it's a LONG way out, but ideally,
>the OWTDI would be "curly quotes". The fact that in ASCII,
>a single quote and a apostrophe are teh same,
>and that there is no distinction between opening
>and
On Wed, Oct 26, 2016 at 8:50 AM, Chris Barker wrote:
> that was kind of a throwaway comment, but I think it's a LONG way out, but
> ideally, the OWTDI would be "curly quotes". The fact that in ASCII, a single
> quote and a apostrophe are teh same, and that there is no distinction
> between opening
On Mon, Oct 24, 2016 at 7:00 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull <
turnbull.stephen...@u.tsukuba.ac.jp> wrote:
> Chris Barker writes:
>
> > I think the "better error message" option is the way to go,
> > however. At least until we all have better Unicode support in all
> > our tools
>
> I don't think "
Chris Barker writes:
> I think the "better error message" option is the way to go,
> however. At least until we all have better Unicode support in all
> our tools
I don't think "better Unicode support" helps with confusables in
programming languages that value TOOWTDI. OK, we already have
On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 4:09 AM, Paul Moore wrote:
> there are a lot of environments where smart quotes get
> accidentally inserted into code.
>
> * Tutorial/example material prepared by non-programmers, again using
> tools that are too "helpful" in auto-converting to smart quotes.
>
indeed --
+1. It's easier to implement, safer, and will educate. It has a real
added value.
Le 22/10/2016 à 09:36, Ryan Birmingham a écrit :
Per the comments in this thread, I believe that a better error message
for this case would be a reasonable way to fix the use case around this
issue.
It can be diff
On 10/22/2016 12:32 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
On 22 October 2016 at 17:36, Ryan Birmingham wrote:
Per the comments in this thread, I believe that a better error message for
this case would be a reasonable way to fix the use case around this issue.
It can be difficult to notice that your quotes ar
On 10/22/2016 3:16 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
I would be happy to see improved error messages for smart quotes:
py> s = ‘abcd’
File "", line 1
s = ‘abcd’
^
SyntaxError: invalid character in identifier
The above *is* the improved (and regressed) 3.6 version ;-)
In 3.5.2 (o
On Sun, Oct 23, 2016 at 3:32 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> Looking for particular Unicode confusables when post-processing
> SyntaxErrors seems like a reasonable idea to me - that's how we ended
> up implementing the heuristic that reports "Missing parenthesis in
> call to print" when folks attempt to
On 22 October 2016 at 17:36, Ryan Birmingham wrote:
> Per the comments in this thread, I believe that a better error message for
> this case would be a reasonable way to fix the use case around this issue.
> It can be difficult to notice that your quotes are curved if you don't know
> that's what
+1 from me for the idea of a more useful error message (if possible).
On 22.10.2016 09:36, Ryan Birmingham wrote:
Per the comments in this thread, I believe that a better error message
for this case would be a reasonable way to fix the use case around this
issue.
It can be difficult to notice t
On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 10:09 PM, Paul Moore wrote:
> While I agree that it's important for new programmers to learn
> precision, there are a lot of environments where smart quotes get
> accidentally inserted into code.
>
> * Pasting code into MS Word documents for reference (even if you then
> fo
On 22 October 2016 at 08:17, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 5:49 PM, Ryan Birmingham
> wrote:
>> this proposed change aims to solve the problem caused when editors, mail
>> clients, web browsers, and operating systems over-zealously replacing
>> straight quotes with these typogr
Per the comments in this thread, I believe that a better error message for
this case would be a reasonable way to fix the use case around this issue.
It can be difficult to notice that your quotes are curved if you don't know
that's what you're looking for.
-Ryan Birmingham
On 22 October 2016 at
On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 5:49 PM, Ryan Birmingham wrote:
> this proposed change aims to solve the problem caused when editors, mail
> clients, web browsers, and operating systems over-zealously replacing
> straight quotes with these typographical characters.
>
A programming editor shouldn't mangle
On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 06:13:35AM +, Jonathan Goble wrote:
> Interesting idea. +1 from me; probably can be as simple as just having the
> tokenizer interpret curly quotes as the ASCII (straight) version of itself
> (in other words, " and the two curly versions of that would all produce the
> s
The quotes I intended in this email are just “ ‘ ” , and
’ where the encoding is appropriate.
Internationalization was not the intent of this. I do believe that you have
a good point with supporting common quotes in other languages, but I
believe that such a change would be large enough to consider
On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 01:17:58AM -0400, Ryan Birmingham wrote:
> Hello everyone,
>
> I want to start small and ask about smart/curly quote marks (” vs ").
Which curly quotes are you going to support? There's Dutch, of course:
„…” ‚…’
But how about … ?
- English ‘…’ “…”
- French « … » “…”
-
Interesting idea. +1 from me; probably can be as simple as just having the
tokenizer interpret curly quotes as the ASCII (straight) version of itself
(in other words, " and the two curly versions of that would all produce the
same token, and same for single quotes, eliminating any need for addition
I was thinking of using them only as possibly quotes characters, as
students and beginners seem to have difficulties due to this quote-mismatch
error. That OSX has smart quotes enabled by default makes this a worthwhile
consideration, in my opinion.
-Ryan Birmingham
On 22 October 2016 at 01:34, E
On 10/21/2016 10:17 PM, Ryan Birmingham wrote:
I want to start small and ask about smart/curly quote marks (” vs ").
Although most languages do not support these characters as quotation
marks, I believe that cPython should, if possible. I'm willing to write
the patch, of course, but I wanted
Hello everyone,
I want to start small and ask about smart/curly quote marks (” vs ").
Although most languages do not support these characters as quotation marks,
I believe that cPython should, if possible. I'm willing to write the patch,
of course, but I wanted to ask about this change, if it has
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