Re: Finding the instance reference of an object

to the arguments. In Python it can only mean assigning directly to the bare name -- anything else isn't changing the argument itself, but something else to which the argument refers. -- Greg -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Finding the instance reference of an object [long and probably boring]

clearly indicate its existence. Likewise, there are plenty of experiments that you can perform with any Python interpreter that reveal the existence of references, or something equivalent to them. -- Greg -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Finding the instance reference of an object [long and probably boring]

scope. If it's changed in the inner scope, a new entry is added there. That sounds like a kind of copy-on-write. It's certainly not call-by-value by any sane interpretation (contrary to your assertion that all calling is call-by-value). -- Greg -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python

Re: Finding the instance reference of an object

equivalent of the strategy used in C to emulate call-by-reference -- and it's needed for the same reason, i.e. the language itself only provides call-by-value. So you pass a value that you can manually dereference to get the same effect. -- Greg -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: C Module question

PyFile object, since there simply isn't one to be had. There is an exception to that -- if the object is one that has a file descriptor underlying it somewhere (such as a pipe or socket) you could get that and wrap it using fdopen(). -- Greg -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Workflow engine?

BJörn Lindqvist wrote: standard implementation completely based on WfMC specifications using XPDL (without any proprietary extensions !) Ah, it's based on WtfMC. That explains everything. :-) -- Greg -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Finding the instance reference of an object

of call-by-value needs to describe it in a more general way. Refusing to accept that a more general definition exists just because it's not mentioned in your Pascal book is a little absurd. -- Greg -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Finding the instance reference of an object

, for something that has an analogy, if not an exact equivalent, in other languages, why can't we do the same for reference and call by value? -- Greg -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Finding the instance reference of an object

to the same object. The difference is *entirely* due to the difference in the semantics of assignment between the two languages. Once you've taken that into account, there is no need to look for difference in the parameter passing scheme. -- Greg -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Python COM: Automatic wrap/unwrap?

, or some registration process I can use, to get instances of my class automatically wrapped and unwrapped? -- Greg -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Finding the instance reference of an object

call-by-value in Python and Pascal is exactly the same difference as there is between assignment in Python and Pascal. Why should we throw out one term but not the other? -- Greg -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Finding the instance reference of an object

is passed to a function. -- Greg -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Finding the instance reference of an object

. Yes, and so is passing by value! -- Greg -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Finding the instance reference of an object

just occurred to me. If you take the view that the value of an expression is an object, then the terms value and object are synonymous. So if you then insist that Python uses call by object, you're actually saying it uses call by value! -- Greg -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python

Re: Finding the instance reference of an object

that don't have anything to do with parameter passing! -- Greg -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Finding the instance reference of an object

and references. -- Greg -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Finding the instance reference of an object

). Since Python only has one parameter passing mechanism, there's no need to give it a name at all. If you're having to explain it, just explain it, and don't bother naming it! -- Greg -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Finding the instance reference of an object

*, not some other language you happen to know previously. -- Greg -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Finding the instance reference of an object

, that tells them all they need to know. Nonsense. Why? What else *do* you think they need to know? -- Greg -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Finding the instance reference of an object

about it, we don't need it! -- Greg -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Finding the instance reference of an object

Douglas Alan wrote: greg [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: This holds for *all* languages that I know about, both static and dynamic. Then you don't know about all that many languages. There are languages that use call-by-name, and those that use call-by-value-return. Some use call-by-need

Re: Finding the instance reference of an object

is somewhat unfortunate. If they'd been called something like call by assignment and call by alias, none of this confusion would have arisen. -- Greg -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: 2.6, 3.0, and truly independent intepreters

of their regular employment temporarily, so unless there's quite a *lot* of money being offered (enough to offer someone full-time employment, for example) it doesn't necessarily make any more man-hours available. -- Greg -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Single string vs list of strings

if it doesn't support indexing or iterating or whatever you want to do with it. -- Greg -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Finding the instance reference of an object

in some way. So instead, you just tell them how it works, and leave them to decide for themselves what name they want to give it. -- Greg -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

PyCon 2009 (US) - Call for tutorials Extended to 11/3

We have had requests to extend the deadline for submitting Tutorial Proposals for PyCon 2009 (US) through the weekend and are willing to do so. We will accept tutorial proposals through Monday, November 3. --greg == The period for submitting tutorial proposals

Re: Finding the instance reference of an object

Douglas Alan wrote: greg [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Seems to me that (1) describes exactly how parameter passing works in Python. So why insist that it's *not* call by value? Because there's an important distinction to be made, The distinction isn't about parameter passing, though, it's

Re: Finding the instance reference of an object

Gabriel Genellina wrote: En Tue, 28 Oct 2008 00:58:10 -0200, greg [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió: (1) Call by value: The actual parameter is an expression. It is evaluated and the result is assigned to the formal parameter. Subsequent assignments to the formal parameter do not affect

Re: Finding the instance reference of an object

assignment works in Python, that tells them all they need to know. If they don't understand how assignment works, then they have a more fundamental knowledge gap that needs to be corrected first. -- Greg Then the questions and puzzled looks will start... And when they tell their friend that Joe

PyCon 2009 - Call for tutorials nearing the end

in early December to give you time to prepare your class and PyCon will compensate instructors US$1,500 per tutorial. If you have any questions, please contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] Greg Lindstrom Tutorial Coordinator, PyCon 2009 (US) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: 2.6, 3.0, and truly independent intepreters

a wild guess as 50%. -- Greg -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Ordering python sets

, other.value) Unfortunately, the __cmp__ method has been eliminated from 3.0 as well, so this won't work as-is. You would need to override __lt__, __eq__, etc. -- Greg -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Finding the instance reference of an object

an alias for the actual parameter, so that assigning to the formal parameter has the same effect as assigning to the actual parameter. Seems to me that (1) describes exactly how parameter passing works in Python. So why insist that it's *not* call by value? -- Greg -- http://mail.python.org

Re: 2.6, 3.0, and truly independent intepreters

to create its own versions of all the builtin constants and type objects, and import its own copy of all the modules it uses. One wonders if it wouldn't be cheaper just to fork the process. Shared memory can be used to transfer large lumps of data if needed. -- Greg -- http://mail.python.org/mailman

Re: 2.6, 3.0, and truly independent intepreters

a separate thread for each interpreter, which you mightn't always want. -- Greg -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: 2.6, 3.0, and truly independent intepreters

dump the big lump of data to be transferred in there, and send a short message through a pipe to the other process to let it know it's there. -- Greg -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: 2.6, 3.0, and truly independent intepreters

in there? It becomes visible to other threads using the same type object. If it's not safe for sharing, bad things happen. Python's data model is not conducive to making a clear distinction between private and shared objects, except at the level of an entire interpreter. -- Greg -- http://mail.python.org/mailman

Re: 2.6, 3.0, and truly independent intepreters

, are shared as well. -- Greg -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: @property decorator doesn't raise exceptions

that the attribute wasn't found. So when your property raises an AttributeError, this is indistinguishable from the case where the property wasn't there at all. To avoid this you would have to raise some exception that doesn't derive from AttributeError. -- Greg -- http://mail.python.org/mailman

Re: 2.6, 3.0, and truly independent intepreters

and shouldn't be done in multi- threaded apps No, it's there because it's necessary for acceptable performance when multiple threads are running in one interpreter. Independent interpreters wouldn't mean the absence of a GIL; it would only mean each interpreter having its own GIL. -- Greg -- http

Re: 2.6, 3.0, and truly independent intepreters

pointers around everywhere is bound to have some effect on performance. The idea mightn't go down too well if it slows things significantly in the case where you're only using one interpreter. -- Greg -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: import a function from bash to python? -HELP!-

James Mills wrote: Directly importing a bash function into python is not possible. Well, you could write a bash interpreter in Python... but that's probably more work than it's worth -- Greg -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: windows / unix path

into arguments, it's the program being run. So you need to avoid any kind of exec or spawn operation, whether it goes through the shell or not, unless you know the program being run isn't going to interpret '/' as an option. -- Greg -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: better scheduler with correct sleep times

. The main problem is that its nature needs to be much more clearly spelled out in the docs -- it's something of an attractive nuisance the way it is. -- Greg -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: What was that, what was it?

fast, but good for a lot of every day tasks. The neat thing about Python is that you can strap on a jet engine (C extension) when you really need a burst of speed. -- Greg -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Using LDAP

error when running in iPython, but I can hit the LDAP server using PHP. Do I need to run a bind statement of some sort after initialize()? Thanks, --greg -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: better scheduler with correct sleep times

for an event to get scheduled while in the midst of a sleep. It also doesn't take any measures to protect its data structures from concurrent access. The documentation could make this clearer, especially since it confusingly talks about allowing other threads to run. -- Greg -- http://mail.python.org

Re: PyGUI - Couple of questions - TextField callbacks and drop down list....

. Anyway, glad you're finding it useful. Feel free to ask if you have any more questions. -- Greg -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

PyCon 2009 (US) - Call for Tutorials

will compensate instructors US$1,500 per tutorial. If you have any questions, please contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] Greg Lindstrom Tutorial Coordinator, PyCon 2009 (US) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-announce-list Support the Python Software Foundation: http

PyCon 2009 (US) - Call for Tutorials

will compensate instructors US$1,500 per tutorial. If you have any questions, please contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] Greg Lindstrom Tutorial Coordinator, PyCon 2009 (US) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: PyGUI as a standard GUI API for Python?

, either it's sufficient to just resize one pane and keep the others a fixed size, or you really want user control over the size of each pane individually. Proportional resizing is a compromise that just ends up annoying me. -- Greg -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

ANN: Humerus 2.0

Humerus 2.0 is now available: http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/greg.ewing/python/Albow/Humerus-2.0.0.tar.gz Online documentation: http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/greg.ewing/python/Albow/Humerus-2.0.0/doc/ This version of Humerus has been extensively revised from the previous one.

Re: If an OS was to be written in Python, how'w it look?

James Mills wrote: I've just checked out the darcs repository and converted it to Mercurial. I'm going to have a bit of a play wiht it... Anyone interested in this ? I'll be interested to hear of any developments. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: how to get the thighest bit position in big integers?

functions. Although Guido has defended it on the grounds that it can be inconvenient having a function that returns different types under different circumstances. Also it discourages making the mistake of treating the return value as a boolean. -- Greg -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo

ANN: Albow 2.0

ALBOW - A Little Bit of Widgetry for PyGame Version 2.0 is now available. This version incorporates substantial additions and improvements. New widgets include TabPanel, TableView, CheckBox, RadioButton and an enhanced set of TextField-based controls.

ANN: Albow 2.0

ALBOW - A Little Bit of Widgetry for PyGame Version 2.0 is now available. This version incorporates substantial additions and improvements. New widgets include TabPanel, TableView, CheckBox, RadioButton and an enhanced set of TextField-based controls.

Re: What is not objects in Python?

Marc 'BlackJack' Rintsch wrote: On Fri, 03 Oct 2008 19:10:27 +1200, greg wrote: (BTW, try doing that with the x.len() notation!) def size(obj): return obj.len() or size = operator.methodcaller('len') No, what I meant was that if the normal way of getting the len of something were

Re: One class per file?

after I've changed something. -- Greg -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: closures and dynamic binding

it has anything to do with recursion. -- Greg -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

[issue4034] traceback attribute error

Greg Hazel [EMAIL PROTECTED] added the comment: There seem to be some other exception type and string inconsistencies, but they are not new to Python 2.6 tb.tb_frame = None Traceback (most recent call last): File stdin, line 1, in module TypeError: 'traceback' object has only read-only

Re: Python is slow?

it with the following. Then you're effectively distributing the modified source in its entirety, just with a funny header at the top of each source file that serves no useful purpose. -- Greg -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Comparing float and decimal

be rather hackish, and wouldn't do anything for any other incomparable types that might come along. -- Greg -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Comparing float and decimal

the elements involved are transitive, and leave the semantics in other cases undefined. Then in the Decimal module it could be warned that the equality relations between int-float and int-Decimal are not transitive, perhaps noting that this can cause problems with sets and dicts. -- Greg -- http

Re: What is not objects in Python?

:-) (BTW, try doing that with the x.len() notation!) -- Greg But it's too late to change things. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: What is not objects in Python?

Aaron Castironpi Brady wrote: How do you have a yellow dog, It's not a yellow dog, it's a dog yellow. Attention pay! :-) -- Ewing Gregory -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: One class per file?

, they don't have any defined relationship to source files, so they don't help you find which file something is defined in. -- Greg -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Odd Errors

is that there are *no* side effects. The confusing thing is that in everyday English the term implies something bad or unwanted (e.g. side effects of a drug). That's not necessarily true of the technical meaning -- often the side effect is exactly what we want, as in the case of append. -- Greg -- http

Re: closures and dynamic binding

is regarded as a feature, so anything which changes that seems to be a non-starter. -- Greg -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Inheritance but only partly?

own nest). -- Greg -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

[issue4034] traceback attribute error

New submission from Greg Hazel [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Unrelated to this bug, I would like to have the ability to remove the reference to the frame from the traceback object. Specifically so that the traceback object could be stored for a while without keeping all the locals alive as well. So

Re: Python style: exceptions vs. sys.exit()

know, whether something is deemed a derivative work is judged on the basis of how similar it is to another work, not whether its author had knowledge of the other work. As long as you express an idea in an original way, it shouldn't matter where you got the idea from. -- Greg -- http

PyCon 2009 (US) - Call for Tutorials

will compensate instructors US$1,500 per tutorial. If you have any questions, please contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] Greg Lindstrom Tutorial Coordinator, PyCon 2009 (US) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-announce-list Support the Python Software Foundation: http

PyCon 2009 (US) - Call for Tutorials

will compensate instructors US$1,500 per tutorial. If you have any questions, please contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] Greg Lindstrom Tutorial Coordinator, PyCon 2009 (US) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

[issue1759845] subprocess.call fails with unicode strings in command line

Greg Couch [EMAIL PROTECTED] added the comment: We're having the same problem. My quick fix was to patch subprocess.py so the command line and executable are converted to the filesystem encoding (mbcs). -- nosy: +gregcouch Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file11674/Python-2.5.2

Re: Why are broken iterators broken?

want to start iterating again. -- Greg -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

pyArkansas Set for October 4th

. This is a *FREE* event (we have GREAT sponsors), so all you need to bring is yourself. We have over 45 people -- from 4 States -- registered and tons of great swag and giveaways lined up. See our wiki (http://pycamp.python.org/Arkansas/HomePage) for more details and registration info. Greg Lindstrom Python

pyArkansas Set for October 4th

. This is a *FREE* event (we have GREAT sponsors), so all you need to bring is yourself. We have over 45 people -- from 4 States -- registered and tons of great swag and giveaways lined up. See our wiki (http://pycamp.python.org/Arkansas/HomePage) for more details and registration info. Greg Lindstrom Python

PyCon 2009 (US) - Call for Tutorials

to give you time to prepare your class. PyCon will compensate instructors US$1,500 per tutorial. If you have any questions, please contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] Greg Lindstrom Tutorial Coordinator, PyCon 2009 -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-announce-list Support the Python

PyCon 2009 (US) - Call for Tutorials

to give you time to prepare your class. PyCon will compensate instructors US$1,500 per tutorial. If you have any questions, please contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] Greg Lindstrom Tutorial Coordinator, PyCon 2009 -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: minimum install pickling

) -- Greg -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

[issue3889] Demo/parser/unparse.py

New submission from Greg Darke [EMAIL PROTECTED]: When the unparse demo is run on a file containing a 'from x import y' statement, it incorrectly outputs it as 'from x import , y'. The attached patch fixes this. -- components: Demos and Tools files: fix_import_from_bug.patch keywords

Re: Function getting a reference to its own module

Arnaud Delobelle wrote: Or: import ModuleName as this_module Or: this_module = __import__(__name__) then you don't have to change anything. -- Greg -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Python and Open Office

Microsoft Excel and creates reports for work, but would like to create an Open Source version using Open Office and release it to the community (and maybe get a talk at PyCon :-). Is there someone here who can help me out, or is there an appropriate mailing list for me to join? Thanks --greg -- http

Re: PyGUI as a standard GUI API for Python?

reluctant to forge ahead with too many new features until a native Windows version exists. -- Greg -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

pyArkansas on October 4th

to limitations of physical space we must close registration at 100 participants (in honor of my first OS, SunOS, we may go to 110). Check out our wiki at http://pycamp.python.org/Arkansas/HomePage. There's no registration fee, so if you're in the area stop on by...we are looking forward to a great day. Greg

pyArkansas on October 4th

to limitations of physical space we must close registration at 100 participants (in honor of my first OS, SunOS, we may go to 110). Check out our wiki at http://pycamp.python.org/Arkansas/HomePage. There's no registration fee, so if you're in the area stop on by...we are looking forward to a great day. Greg

ANN: Pyrex 0.9.8.5

Pyrex 0.9.8.5 is now available: http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/greg.ewing/python/Pyrex/ Various minor bug fixes and improvements. What is Pyrex? -- Pyrex is a language for writing Python extension modules. It lets you freely mix operations on Python and C data, with all

Renaming Excel Spreadsheets

keep me from having to write this. I've looked at Jasper and DataVision; Thanks, --greg -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

pyArkansas Conference, Oct 4

The Arkansas Python Users Group announces a 1-day Python conference to be held on the campus of the University of Central Arkansas (www.uca.edu) on October 4. We plan a 3-hour Introduction to Python class as well as talks on text/file processing, Python standard library, Django, pyGame, OLPC and

Re: internet searching program

be to crawl the site and build your own index based on the information you're interested in. -- Greg -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Teething troubles with Python on a Mac

Avinash Vora wrote: (Greg: You only sent the email to me: you probably wanted to add the mailing list to the recipients.) I replied to the newsgroup as well, so it should turn up in the list. Right, but I meant if there is an Apple-sanctioned way. I guess not? Not that I'm aware of. I

Re: Teething troubles with Python on a Mac

. Apart from the initial installation of Python itself, I never use an installer to install a Python package if I can avoid it. I wouldn't trust it to install into the right Python version. -- Greg -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Teething troubles with Python on a Mac

on it) I've very rarely had any problem with maintaining my own Python installation, but as I said, I always install packages using python setup.py. Python itself copes very well with having multiple versions installed, on all platforms, but you have to do things the Python way. -- Greg -- http

Re: Rant (was Re: x*x if x10

. -- Greg -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: with statement for two files

Diez B. Roggisch wrote: Paul Rubin wrote: use contextlib.nexted(). You mean contextlib.nested I guess. Although nexted is an intriguing-sounding word. I wonder what it could mean? -- Greg -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

[issue3423] DeprecationWarning message applies to wrong context with exec()

New submission from Greg Hazel [EMAIL PROTECTED]: exec()ing a line which causes a DeprecationWarning causes the warning to quote the file exec() occurs in instead of the string. Demonstration of the issue: http://codepad.org/aMTYQgN5 -- components: None messages: 70129 nosy: ghazel

screencapture with PIL question

I am able to use the PIL module to capture a screen or specific window. My problem is when capturing a window (on windows XP) I can only capture the visible portion of the window. Is there any way to capture the entire window? specifically the scrolled portion of a window that is not visible on

ANN: Pyrex 0.9.8.4

Pyrex 0.9.8.4 is now available: http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/greg.ewing/python/Pyrex/ This version fixes a bug introduced by the last change to unsigned integer indexing. What is Pyrex? -- Pyrex is a language for writing Python extension modules. It lets you freely mix

ANN: Pyrex 0.9.8.4

Pyrex 0.9.8.4 is now available: http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/greg.ewing/python/Pyrex/ This version fixes a bug introduced by the last change to unsigned integer indexing. What is Pyrex? -- Pyrex is a language for writing Python extension modules. It lets you freely mix

ANN: Pyrex 0.9.8.3

Pyrex 0.9.8.3 is now available: http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/greg.ewing/python/Pyrex/ Compiling multiple .pyx files in one go works properly now, and can be substantially faster if you have a lot of modules that cimport from each other. I had to rearrange various things to make this work,

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