daniel wrote:
is there any typical usage that shows their difference?
d = {}
d[('multi', 'part', 'key')] = 'schnarz'
d[['multi', 'part', 'key']] = 'schnarz'
Traceback (most recent call last):
File stdin, line 1, in ?
TypeError: list objects are unhashable
A lot of discussions regarding
On 16 May 2006 07:47:24 -0700, daniel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
http://www.python.org/doc/faq/general.html#why-are-there-separate-tuple-and-list-data-types
--
Cheers,
Simon B,
[EMAIL PROTECTED],
http://www.brunningonline.net/simon/blog/
--
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is there any typical usage that shows their difference?
I think the general idea is to use lists for homogenous collections and
tuples for heterogenous structures.
I think the database API provides a good usage that shows their
differences. When you do cursor.fetchall() after executing a
The main difference is that lists are mutables while tuples are not.
Tuples are fine if you only want to group some objects (e.g. as a
return value) and access their members as in
t = (1,2,3,4)
t[2]
3
Lists give you a lot more flexibility, because they are mutable: you
can change the order of
thank you all for replying, I'm new to python, and just reading the
python tutorial now. I did not expect the FAQ to contain any relevant
topics, so thanks Simon...
your comments did make sense, I should have read the tutorial more
thoroughly, It's not a good question, I admit. ;-)
English is
infidel wrote:
is there any typical usage that shows their difference?
I think the general idea is to use lists for homogenous collections and
tuples for heterogenous structures.
I think the database API provides a good usage that shows their
differences. When you do cursor.fetchall()
Hello,
I have been develop a blocking socket application with threading. The
main thread handles connections and inserts them into python's
protected queue as jobs for the thread pool to handle.
There is not much information on threading.local except that it states
that in maintains variable
John Salerno wrote...
[...]
So a class method is specifically for using the class name itself as an
object in the method? If that's the case, then it makes some sense now.
I guess the reason I didn't get it before is that this is a feature of
dynamic languages, right? And something that
I've been reading up on them, but I don't quite understand how they
differ in practice. I know how each is implemented, and from C# I
already know what a static method is. But I won't assume that it's the
same in Python. And on top of that, both the class and static methods of
Python seem to
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], John Salerno wrote:
I've been reading up on them, but I don't quite understand how they
differ in practice. I know how each is implemented, and from C# I
already know what a static method is. But I won't assume that it's the
same in Python. And on top of that, both
Marc 'BlackJack' Rintsch wrote:
If you call `B.from_file('spam.xyz')` now, the `from_file()` method
inherited from class `A` is called but with `B` as the first argument so
it returns an instance of `B`.
A staticmethod is just a function attached to a class without any magic.
So a class
On Mon, 2006-03-27 at 17:17 -0500, Terry Reedy wrote:
Clemens Hepper [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
It's strange: python seem to cache constants from 0 to 99:
The Python specification allows but does not require such behind-the-scenes
implementation
Adam DePrince [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
It just happens that the
logical operation
(a is b ) - (a == b )
is always True.
Only for small values of always. You can always do pathological
things with operators:
class Foo:
def __eq__ (self, other):
return False
f = Foo()
print f
On 3 Apr 2006 10:37:11 -0400 in comp.lang.python, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Roy
Smith) wrote:
Adam DePrince [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
It just happens that the
logical operation
(a is b ) - (a == b )
is always True.
Only for small values of always. You can always do pathological
things with
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Roy Smith wrote:
This may even be useful. What if you were trying to emulate SQL's
NULL? NULL compares false to anything, even itself.
Strictly speaking, comparing NULL to anything gives NULL, not False.
--
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Adam DePrince wrote:
It just happens that the
logical operation
(a is b ) - (a == b )
is always True.
That is incorrect:
inf = 1e300*1e300
nan = inf-inf
nan is nan, nan==nan
(True, False)
--
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There's no requirement that the socket module or
anything else return values using the same object that the
socket.AF_UNIX constant uses.
Ouch. That's certainly an eyeopener.
For me, this means several things, and I'd really like to hear people's
thoughts about them.
It basically boils down
Joel Hedlund wrote:
For me, this means several things, and I'd really like to hear people's
thoughts about them.
It basically boils down to don't ever use 'is' unless pushed into a corner,
and nevermind what PEP8 says about it.
nonsense.
Identity checks can only be done safely to compare
sorry
You compare a module.CONSTANT to the result of an expression
s/an expression/a binary operation/
/joel
Joel Hedlund wrote:
If it weren't for the current CPython optimization (caching small
integers)
This has already been covered elsewhere in this thread. Read up on it.
this
Joel Hedlund wrote:
There's no requirement that the socket module or
anything else return values using the same object that the
socket.AF_UNIX constant uses.
Ouch. That's certainly an eyeopener.
For me, this means several things, and I'd really like to hear people's
thoughts about
For me, this means several things, and I'd really like to hear people's
thoughts about them.
you need to spend more time relaxing, and less time making up arbitrary
rules for others to follow.
I'm very relaxed, thank you. I do not make up rules for others to follow. I ask
for other peoples
Joel Hedlund wrote:
It basically boils down to don't ever use 'is' unless pushed into a
corner, and nevermind what PEP8 says about it.
A quick grep[*] of the Python library shows the following common use-cases
for 'is'. The library isn't usually a good indicator of current style
though: a
[*] I discovered a neat feature I didn't know my editor had: grepping for
[c:python-keywordis
Neat indeed. Which editor is that?
Thanks for a quick and comprehensive answer, btw.
Cheers!
/Joel
--
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Joel Hedlund wrote:
[*] I discovered a neat feature I didn't know my editor had: grepping
for [c:python-keywordis
Neat indeed. Which editor is that?
Epsilon from www.lugaru.com. The drawback is that it costs real money
although you can try the beta for the next version until it is
Hi,
I am new to python.. I have uploaded few scripts in my cgi-bin folder,
some with extension .cgi and some with .py.
What is the difference between the two extensions.. which one is more
prefered, do it effects performance ??
Thanks
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[EMAIL PROTECTED] enlightened us with:
I am new to python.. I have uploaded few scripts in my cgi-bin
folder, some with extension .cgi and some with .py.
What is the difference between the two extensions..
None at all, except the way you write them.
which one is more prefered
That depends
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi,
I am new to python.. I have uploaded few scripts in my cgi-bin folder,
some with extension .cgi and some with .py.
Only how the Web server is configured.
What is the difference between the two extensions.. which one is more
prefered, do it effects performance
Em Seg, 2006-03-27 às 23:02 -0800, alex23 escreveu:
Felipe Almeida Lessa wrote:
I said [constants defined in your code] can (maybe should?) be used with
is, and
AFAICT I'm right as well:
b = a
b is a
True
You should _never_ use 'is' to check for equivalence of value. Yes, due
This does *not* also mean constants and such:
snip
a = 123456789
a == 123456789
True
a is 123456789
False
I didn't mean that kind of constant. I meant named constants with defined
meaning, as in the example that I cooked up in my post. More examples: os.R_OK,
You should _never_ use 'is' to check for equivalence of value. Yes, due
to the implementation of CPython the behaviour you quote above does
occur, but it doesn't mean quite what you seem to think it does.
/me not checking for value. I'm checking for identity. Suppose a is a
constant. I want
Not those kind of constants, but this one:
Python 2.4.2 (#2, Nov 20 2005, 17:04:48)
[GCC 4.0.3 2005 (prerelease) (Debian 4.0.2-4)] on linux2
Type help, copyright, credits or license for more information.
CONST = 123456789
a = CONST
a == CONST
True
a is CONST
True
That's a little
a is None
is quicker than
a == None
I think it's not such a good idea to focus on speed gains here, since they
really are marginal (max 2 seconds total after 1000 comparisons):
import timeit
print timeit.Timer(a == None, a = 1).timeit(int(1e7))
4.19580316544
print
Joel Hedlund wrote:
This does *not* also mean constants and such:
snip
a = 123456789
a == 123456789
True
a is 123456789
False
I didn't mean that kind of constant. I meant named constants with defined
meaning, as in the example that I cooked up in my post. More
On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 12:12:52 +0200, Joel Hedlund wrote:
I try to stay away from speed microoptimisations as much as possible since it
generally results in less readable code, which in turn often results in an
overall speed loss because code maintenance will be harder.
+1 QOTW
--
Steven.
Felipe Almeida Lessa wrote:
That said, you can do thinks like:
import socket
a = socket.AF_UNIX
a is socket.AF_UNIX
True
That kind of constants can be used with is. But if don't want to be
prone to errors as I do, use is only when you really know for sure
that you're dealing with
Em Ter, 2006-03-28 às 15:18 -0800, Ross Ridge escreveu:
[snip]
Consider this example using the socket.IPPROTO_RAW constant:
socket.getaddrinfo(localhost, None, socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_RAW,
socket.IPPROTO_RAW)[0][2] is socket.IPPROTO_RAW
False
socket.getaddrinfo(localhost, None,
If it weren't for the current CPython optimization (caching small
integers)
This has already been covered elsewhere in this thread. Read up on it.
this code which it appears you would support writing
if (flags os.R_OK) is os.R_OK:
I do not.
You compare a module.CONSTANT to the
Hey guys, this maybe a stupid question, but I can't seem to find the
result anywhere online. When is the right time to use 'is' and when
should we use '=='?
Thanks alot~
--
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mwql:
Hey guys, this maybe a stupid question, but I can't seem to find the
result anywhere online. When is the right time to use 'is' and when
should we use '=='?
http://docs.python.org/ref/comparisons.html
--
René Pijlman
--
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mwql wrote:
Hey guys, this maybe a stupid question, but I can't seem to find the
result anywhere online. When is the right time to use 'is' and when
should we use '=='?
is is like id(obj1) == id(obj2)
100+1 == 101
True
100+1 is 101
False
They don't have the same id. (Think of id as
mwql wrote:
Hey guys, this maybe a stupid question, but I can't seem to find the
result anywhere online. When is the right time to use 'is' and when
should we use '=='?
Thanks alot~
'==' is the equality operator. It is used to test if two objects are
'equal'.
'is' is the identity operator,
is is like id(obj1) == id(obj2)
snip
(Think of id as memory adresses.)
Which means that is comparisons in general will be faster than ==
comparisons. According to PEP8 (python programming style guidelines) you should
use 'is' when comparing to singletons like None. I take this to also include
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED],
Joel Hedlund [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Which means that is comparisons in general will be faster than ==
comparisons.
I thought that == automatically compared identify before trying to compare
the values. Or am I thinking of some special case, like strings?
--
Roy Smith wrote:
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED],
Joel Hedlund [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Which means that is comparisons in general will be faster than ==
comparisons.
I thought that == automatically compared identify before trying to compare
the values. Or am I thinking of some special
Roy Smith wrote:
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED],
Joel Hedlund [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Which means that is comparisons in general will be faster than ==
comparisons.
I thought that == automatically compared identify before trying to compare
the values. Or am I thinking of some special
On Mon, 27 Mar 2006 14:52:46 +0200,
Joel Hedlund [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
... According to PEP8 (python programming style guidelines) you should
use 'is' when comparing to singletons like None. I take this to also
include constants and such ...
This does *not* also mean constants and such:
It's really strange,
if
a = 1
b = 1
a is b == True
the same thing applies for strings, but not for dict, lists or tuples
I think the 'is' operator is useful for objects only, not for primitive
types,
I think I solved the mystery behind my bugged code =)
--
mwql wrote:
It's really strange,
if
a = 1
b = 1
a is b == True
the same thing applies for strings
Not quite:
'abc' is 'abc'
True
'abc' is 'ab' + 'c'
False
--
Benji York
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Dan Sommers wrote:
This does *not* also mean constants and such:
Python 2.4.2 (#1, Feb 22 2006, 08:02:53)
[GCC 4.0.1 (Apple Computer, Inc. build 5247)] on darwin
Type help, copyright, credits or license for more information.
a = 123456789
a == 123456789
True
Em Seg, 2006-03-27 às 08:23 -0500, Dan Sommers escreveu:
On Mon, 27 Mar 2006 14:52:46 +0200,
Joel Hedlund [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
... According to PEP8 (python programming style guidelines) you should
use 'is' when comparing to singletons like None. I take this to also
include constants
mwql wrote:
It's really strange,
if
a = 1
b = 1
a is b == True
the same thing applies for strings, but not for dict, lists or tuples
I think the 'is' operator is useful for objects only, not for primitive
types,
I think I solved the mystery behind my bugged code =)
The reason that
Clemens Hepper wrote:
It's strange: python seem to cache constants from 0 to 99:
That's true. The Python api doc says that Python keeps an array of
integer objects for all integers between -1 and 100. See
http://docs.python.org/api/intObjects.html.
This also seems to be true for integers from -5
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED],
Diez B. Roggisch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
...
So - your conclusion is basically right: use is on (complex) objects, not on
numbers and strings and other built-ins. The exception from the rule is
None - that should only exist once, so
foo is not None
is
Clemens Hepper [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
It's strange: python seem to cache constants from 0 to 99:
The Python specification allows but does not require such behind-the-scenes
implementation optimization hacks. As released, CPython 2.4 caches -5 to
99, I
Terry Reedy wrote:
The Python specification allows but does not require such behind-the-scenes
implementation optimization hacks. As released, CPython 2.4 caches -5 to
99, I believe. In 2.5, the upper limit was increased to 256. The limits
are in a pair of #define statements in the int
Terry Reedy:
The Python specification allows but does not require such behind-the-scenes
implementation optimization hacks. As released, CPython 2.4 caches -5 to
99, I believe. In 2.5, the upper limit was increased to 256. The limits
are in a pair of #define statements in the int object
On Mon, 27 Mar 2006 11:08:36 -0300,
Felipe Almeida Lessa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Em Seg, 2006-03-27 às 08:23 -0500, Dan Sommers escreveu:
On Mon, 27 Mar 2006 14:52:46 +0200,
Joel Hedlund [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
... According to PEP8 (python programming style guidelines) you should
use
Em Seg, 2006-03-27 às 21:05 -0500, Dan Sommers escreveu:
Right off the top of my head, I can't think of a way to make a = b; a
is b return False.
Sorry for being so --quiet. I will try to be more --verbose.
I can think of two types of constants:
1) Those defined in the language, like True,
Felipe Almeida Lessa wrote:
I said [constants defined in your code] can (maybe should?) be used with
is, and
AFAICT I'm right as well:
b = a
b is a
True
You should _never_ use 'is' to check for equivalence of value. Yes, due
to the implementation of CPython the behaviour you quote above
Op 2006-03-27, Donn Cave schreef [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED],
Diez B. Roggisch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
...
So - your conclusion is basically right: use is on (complex) objects, not on
numbers and strings and other built-ins. The exception from the rule is
None - that
OK this might seem like a retarded question, but what is the difference
between a library and a module?
If I do:
import string
am I importing a module or a library?
And if i do string.replace() am I using a module or a function or a
method or what?
Sorry.
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman
intro to OOP, for a better understanding, but the main
difference between a function and a method, is that a method is
associated with some class or object. In Python it's really only
objects (even class is an object) Hence when I created the string
object foo, and executed Capitalize
sophie_newbie wrote:
OK this might seem like a retarded question, but what is the difference
between a library and a module?
If I do:
import string
am I importing a module or a library?
I'm not a guru, but... I think that modules are things that live inside
the Python language
sophie_newbie wrote:
OK this might seem like a retarded question,
Better to look like an ignorant than to stay one !-)
but what is the difference
between a library and a module?
Python only defines 'modules' and 'packages'. A module can technically
be any python source file, but usually
Laszlo Zsolt Nagy a écrit :
sophie_newbie wrote:
OK this might seem like a retarded question, but what is the difference
between a library and a module?
If I do:
import string
am I importing a module or a library?
I'm not a guru, but... I think that modules are things that live
built from a function.
Read some intro to OOP, for a better understanding, but the main
difference between a function and a method, is that a method is
associated with some class or object.
Note that (part of) this association is made at runtime. Before you try
to access it, it's a function
Claudio Grondi wrote:
I have asked similar 'question' some weeks ago in the German Python
newsgroup.
It seems, that that Pythonistas have generally not much interest in
IronPython waiting for at least release 2.0 of it which is _perhaps_
expected to support Mono.
My understanding is that
What is the difference between CPython, Python for .NET, and IronPython?
For example, if I'm running IronPython, can I access modules such as Numeric
and numarray?
As I understand it, interoperability with C# and .NET works in both
directions with IronPython, but CPython modules cannot
Carl Johan Rehn wrote:
What is the difference between CPython, Python for .NET, and IronPython?
For example, if I'm running IronPython, can I access modules such as Numeric
and numarray?
As I understand it, interoperability with C# and .NET works in both
directions with IronPython
For example, if I'm running IronPython, can I access modules such as Numeric
and numarray?
AFAIK not. You can run pure python modules, but not extensions
containing native code.
As I understand it, interoperability with C# and .NET works in both
directions with IronPython, but CPython
Amen to this one. Found out this after struggling with no SSL module when
trying to write some secure FTP and HTTPS code. Downloaded the version from
Python.org and it worked like a champ.
I believe you can get both and have no issues with the install, though. For my
part, I decided to
Xiao Jianfeng [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
In pymol I can use from chempy import Atom but import chempy.Atom
doesn't work.
It says,ImportError: No module named Atom. What is going wrong ?
I would trust the error message first, and check your assumption.
Is 'chempy' actually a package, containing
Hello,
In pymol I can use from chempy import Atom but import chempy.Atom
doesn't work.
It says,ImportError: No module named Atom. What is going wrong ?
Thanks
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Good question, I have the same anxiety.
Thanks
Daniel
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Activestate just bundles teh standard python with the pywin32 module of Mark Hammond and provides the documentation in a handy one-file CHM format.Besides that there is no difference as far as I know.
On 12/14/05, S.Chang [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi,Anyone knows the difference(s) between the
I fretted about which to pick and have advised here that the difference
(if any) should be explained on the Python.org download page. I chose
ActiveState because I'm on Windows XP, which means that the Win32
Extensions get installed automatically, along with other goodies (the
PythonWin IDE, a
S.Chang on comp.lang.python said:
Hi,
Anyone knows the difference(s) between the Python binaries from
ActiveState and Python.org?
ActivePython is a 'batteries included' distro. I think it's great for
Windows - it includes a lot of manuals in CHM format and the Win32
extensions.
The
On 2005-12-14, S.Chang [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi,
Anyone knows the difference(s) between the Python binaries from
ActiveState and Python.org?
If you want to re-distribute the ActivePython packages outside of your
organization, you have to get permission from ActiveState.
S.Chang:
Anyone knows the difference(s) between the Python binaries from
ActiveState and Python.org?
As well as the differences mentioned by others, ActivePython does
not include SSL (Secure Socket Layer) and thus HTTPS support. It would
be helpful if the ActivePython What's Included
[S.Chang wrote]
Anyone knows the difference(s) between the Python binaries from
ActiveState and Python.org?
The responses to this thread so far gave most of the differences. In
summary:
- On Windows, ActivePython includes the PyWin32 extensions.
- ActivePython rolls the core Python docs and a
On 8 Sep 2005 22:48:05 -0700
Johnny Lee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I thought there must be something special when you named a VAR with
'_' the first character. Maybe it's just a programming style and I had
thought too much...
It is just a programming style issue. In Python, variables and
I thought there must be something special when you named a VAR with '_'
the first character. Maybe it's just a programming style and I had
thought too much...
Perhaps you are thinking of the use of double leading underscore names within
class declarations or system defined names with
I can't get the value of the variable (out of the class function) if it has
two leading underscores.
-Dave
class encrypt:
def encrypt(self, userValue):
self.initialNumber = userValue
self.__secretSeed = 7
return self.initialNumber * self.__secretSeed
enc = encrypt()
enc.encrypt(5)
35
S. D. Rose wrote:
I can't get the value of the variable (out of the class function) if it has
two leading underscores.
Sure you can if you want it hard enough; it's just mangled.
class C: __x = 1
...
dir(C)
['_C__x', '__doc__', '__module__']
c = C()
dir(c)
['_C__x', '__doc__',
As what you said, the following two code section is totally the same?
(I)
class TestResult:
_passxxx_ = pass
(II)
class TestResult:
passxxx = pass
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Johnny Lee wrote:
As what you said, the following two code section is totally the same?
(I)
class TestResult:
_passxxx_ = pass
(II)
class TestResult:
passxxx = pass
No, of course not. One defines a class varaible named `_passxxx_', the
other defines one named
Erik Max Francis wrote:
No, of course not. One defines a class varaible named `_passxxx_', the
other defines one named `passsxxx'.
I mean besides the difference of name...
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Johnny Lee wrote:
I mean besides the difference of name...
You're going to have to be more clear; I don't understand your question.
What's the difference between
a = 1
and
b = 1
besides the difference of name?
--
Erik Max Francis [EMAIL PROTECTED] http
Erik Max Francis wrote:
You're going to have to be more clear; I don't understand your question.
What's the difference between
a = 1
and
b = 1
besides the difference of name?
I thought there must be something special when you named a VAR with '_'
the first character
Johnny wrote:
Hi,
I wonder what is the difference between the built-in function
getattr() and the normal call of a function of a class. Here is the
details:
getattr( object, name[, default])
Return the value of the named attributed of object. name must be a
string. If the string
Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
No, it will only return _always_ a value if you provide a default one.
If not, they have the exact same semantics.
What you've got here is something usually called syntactic sugaring -
a specialized syntax that performs certain instructions that _could_ be
done by
Johnny wrote:
Hi,
I wonder what is the difference between the built-in function
getattr() and the normal call of a function of a class. Here is the
details:
getattr( object, name[, default])
Return the value of the named attributed of object. name must be a
string. If the string
Hi,
I wonder what is the difference between the built-in function
getattr() and the normal call of a function of a class. Here is the
details:
getattr( object, name[, default])
Return the value of the named attributed of object. name must be a
string. If the string is the name of one
. what's the difference between them? i saw the code is same as common c++
extended python module, can i use microsoft visual C++ to create a dll
project for compiling it as _cmd.dll?
2. i have never written a module with extension *.pyd, how to make a *.pyd?
and, i doubt, how the author debug
wen wrote:
1. what's the difference between them? i saw the code is same as common c++
extended python module, can i use microsoft visual C++ to create a dll
project for compiling it as _cmd.dll?
.pyd is just a naming convention. It was probably introduced to prevent
name clashes
On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 08:38:28 -0400, Peter Hansen wrote:
Steven D'Aprano wrote:
It may shock some people to learn that difference in the sense of
mathematical subtraction is not the only meaning of the word, but there
it is. One wouldn't, I hope, misunderstand What is the difference
Steven D'Aprano wrote:
Michael Hoffman wrote:
John Machin wrote:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Can someone tell me the difference between single quote and double
quote?
ord(') - ord('')
5
Very zen.
But unfortunately incorrect, since the original poster didn't ask for
the difference
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi,
Can someone tell me the difference between single quote and double
quote?
ord(') - ord('')
5
or ask a meaningful question ...
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Can someone tell me the difference between single quote and double
quote?
One has double the fun.
--
Erik Max Francis [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.alcyone.com/max/
San Jose, CA, USA 37 20 N 121 53 W AIM erikmaxfrancis
Forgive your enemies, but never forget
Steven D'Aprano wrote:
It may shock some people to learn that difference in the sense of
mathematical subtraction is not the only meaning of the word, but there
it is. One wouldn't, I hope, misunderstand What is the difference
between spaghetti marinara and spaghetti pescatora? and attempt
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