Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

On 20 April 2016 at 02:38, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > > "Oh no! We're having trouble displaying this Scratch project. > > If you are on a mobile phone or tablet, try visiting this project on a > computer. > > If you're on a computer, your Flash player might be disabled,

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

On 20 April 2016 at 07:08, Terry Reedy wrote: > On 4/19/2016 11:41 PM, Chris Angelico wrote: >> >> On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 1:23 PM, Terry Reedy wrote: It kinda looks like Hypertalk syntax, which some of you may remember I'm exceedingly fond of.

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

Rustom Mody wrote: On Wednesday, April 20, 2016 at 6:33:33 AM UTC+5:30, Steven D'Aprano wrote: Anyone who thinks that we're heading back to hieroglyphics simply isn't paying attention. Which are just text in the range 13000-1342F: http://unicode.org/charts/PDF/U13000.pdf Moreover, the

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

On 4/19/2016 11:41 PM, Chris Angelico wrote: On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 1:23 PM, Terry Reedy wrote: It kinda looks like Hypertalk syntax, which some of you may remember I'm exceedingly fond of. There's no reason why a GUI editor couldn't display Python code using such "building

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

On Wednesday, April 20, 2016 at 6:33:33 AM UTC+5:30, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > Anyone who thinks that we're heading back to hieroglyphics simply isn't > paying attention. Which are just text in the range 13000-1342F: http://unicode.org/charts/PDF/U13000.pdf --

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

On Wednesday, April 20, 2016 at 12:25:09 AM UTC+5:30, Random832 wrote: > On Tue, Apr 19, 2016, at 13:43, Tim Chase wrote: > > Well, let's take a look at their native file formats: > > > > Inkscape: SVG > > > > Libreoffice: compressed XML > > > > Firefox: HTML+CSS+JS > > > > Musescore:

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 1:23 PM, Terry Reedy wrote: >> It kinda looks like Hypertalk syntax, which some of you may remember I'm >> exceedingly fond of. There's no reason why a GUI editor couldn't display >> Python code using such "building block" structure. E.g. indented blocks

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

On 4/19/2016 9:38 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: So-called "visual programming environments" (think: Visual Basic) are well-suited to laying out the interface of GUI applications. They might even be useful for extremely limited mini-languages like regexes. I'm told that there are still people who

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 11:38 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > As for "visual programming languages" (languages with an inherent visual > form which lacks any simple or obvious text equivalent), they've been a > dead-end. Even languages like Scratch cannot do without text. Look

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

On Tue, Apr 19, 2016, at 20:34, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > That's not the sense of being discussed here. Yes it is - this started as a discussion of whether indentation and alignment should be based on fixed spaces (as text editors support) or dynamic tab stops (as any word processing format

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

On Tue, Apr 19, 2016, at 20:02, Tim Chase wrote: > Well, my preferred method of "viewing" python code is /usr/bin/python > > Authoring, editing, and consuming are all distinct actions. Viewing and executing are also distinct. > > You could, for example, design a programming language that uses

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

On Wed, 20 Apr 2016 04:54 am, Random832 wrote: > You could, for example, design a programming language that uses XML > markup to associate comments with specific positions in the code and the > editor displays them in little callout boxes when you hover over them > with the mouse. That's not done

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

On Wed, 20 Apr 2016 07:35 am, Marko Rauhamaa wrote: > The "plain text" content type is used less and less. Really it is > reserved mostly to programmers. Even texters routinely field animated > emojies nowadays. Who cares about "plain text" content type? That is not the beginning or end of what

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

On Wed, 20 Apr 2016 04:54 am, Random832 wrote: > None of those are "text" in the sense being discussed here, which is > "preferred method of viewing and editing is a text editor". That's not the sense of being discussed here. How absurd. Why should a letter containing nothing but text be

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

On Wed, 20 Apr 2016 02:46 am, Rustom Mody wrote: > On Tuesday, April 19, 2016 at 9:44:39 PM UTC+5:30, Steven D'Aprano wrote: >> On Tue, 19 Apr 2016 01:04 pm, Rustom Mody wrote: >> >> > And more generally that programmers sticking to text when rest of world >> > has moved on is rather backward:

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

On 2016-04-19 14:54, Random832 wrote: > On Tue, Apr 19, 2016, at 13:43, Tim Chase wrote: > > Well, let's take a look at their native file formats: > > Inkscape: SVG > > Libreoffice: compressed XML > > Firefox: HTML+CSS+JS > > Musescore: compressed text > > Dia: compressed XML > > None of those

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 9:22 AM, Grant Edwards wrote: > On 2016-04-19, Chris Angelico wrote: >> On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 6:50 AM, Ben Finney >> wrote: > On Tue, 19 Apr 2016 01:04 pm, Rustom Mody wrote: > > And

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

On 2016-04-19, Chris Angelico wrote: > On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 6:50 AM, Ben Finney > wrote: >>> > On Tue, 19 Apr 2016 01:04 pm, Rustom Mody wrote: >>> > > And more generally that programmers sticking to text when rest of world >>> > > has moved on

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

On Tuesday, April 19, 2016 at 1:59:48 PM UTC-7, Chris Angelico wrote: > On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 6:50 AM, Ben Finney > wrote: > >> > On Tue, 19 Apr 2016 01:04 pm, Rustom Mody wrote: > >> > > And more generally that programmers sticking to text when rest of world > >> >

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

Chris Angelico : > On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 6:50 AM, Ben Finney > wrote: >>> > On Tue, 19 Apr 2016 01:04 pm, Rustom Mody wrote: >>> > > And more generally that programmers sticking to text when rest >>> > > of world has moved on is rather backward: >>

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 6:50 AM, Ben Finney wrote: >> > On Tue, 19 Apr 2016 01:04 pm, Rustom Mody wrote: >> > > And more generally that programmers sticking to text when rest of world >> > > has moved on is rather backward: > > You haven't supported that claim at all,

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

Rustom Mody writes: > On Tuesday, April 19, 2016 at 9:44:39 PM UTC+5:30, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > > On Tue, 19 Apr 2016 01:04 pm, Rustom Mody wrote: > > > > > And more generally that programmers sticking to text when rest of world > > > has moved on is rather backward: >

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

On Tue, Apr 19, 2016, at 13:43, Tim Chase wrote: > Well, let's take a look at their native file formats: > > Inkscape: SVG > > Libreoffice: compressed XML > > Firefox: HTML+CSS+JS > > Musescore: compressed text > > Dia: compressed XML None of those are "text" in the sense being discussed

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

On Tuesday, April 19, 2016 at 11:17:23 PM UTC+5:30, Tim Chase wrote: > On 2016-04-19 09:46, Rustom Mody wrote: > > inkscape > > gimp > > blender > > libreoffice writer/calc/prese > > wireshark > > skype > > firefox > > audacity > > musescore > > totem > > vlc > > dia > > > > Do these look like

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

On 2016-04-19 09:46, Rustom Mody wrote: > inkscape > gimp > blender > libreoffice writer/calc/prese > wireshark > skype > firefox > audacity > musescore > totem > vlc > dia > > Do these look like text-based apps to you? Well, let's take a look at their native file formats: Inkscape: SVG

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

On Wed, 20 Apr 2016 01:50:00 +1000, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > Anyone who has played (say) Dungeons and Dragons, or other role-playing > games, will know that events with a probability of 1 in 20 occur very > frequently. To be precise, they occur one time in twenty. > Million to 1 chances happen 9

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 11:50 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > On Wed, 20 Apr 2016 12:54 am, Rustom Mody wrote: > > >> I wonder who the joke is on: >> >> | A study comparing Canadian and Chinese students found that the latter >> | were better at complex maths > > Most published

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

On Tuesday, April 19, 2016 at 9:44:39 PM UTC+5:30, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > On Tue, 19 Apr 2016 01:04 pm, Rustom Mody wrote: > > > And more generally that programmers sticking to text when rest of world > > has moved on is rather backward: > > I'm pretty sure that the rest of the world has not

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

On Tue, 19 Apr 2016 01:04 pm, Rustom Mody wrote: > And more generally that programmers sticking to text when rest of world > has moved on is rather backward: I'm pretty sure that the rest of the world has not moved on from text. Text still makes up by far the bulk of human communication. It's

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

On Wed, 20 Apr 2016 01:50 am, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > - Is the effect due to chance? Remember, with a p-value of 0.05 (the > so-called 95% significance level), one in twenty experiments will > give a positive result just by chance. A p-value of 0.05 does not > mean "these results are

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

On Wed, 20 Apr 2016 12:54 am, Rustom Mody wrote: > I wonder who the joke is on: > > | A study comparing Canadian and Chinese students found that the latter > | were better at complex maths Most published studies are wrong. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1182327/ - Has that study

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

On 2016-04-19 23:41, Chris Angelico wrote: > The only time I'll "wrap" that kind of comment is when it actually > applies to both lines of code: > > width = bar * 3 + 2 # we have 3x2 bars, plus one... > height = bar * 2 + 2 # ... pixel of margin on all sides And even then in that exceptional

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

On Tuesday, April 19, 2016 at 7:46:21 PM UTC+5:30, Grant Edwards wrote: > On 2016-04-19, Pete Forman wrote: > > > My question asks why monospace is used for the text. > > Well, I always use a monospaced font for code because I find it helps > readability for things like tables of data, block

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

On 2016-04-18 21:14:02 +, Pete Forman said: Why is it that Python continues to use a fixed width font and therefore specifies the maximum line width as a character count? An essential part of the language is indentation which ought to continue to mandate that lines start with a multiple of

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 12:15 AM, Grant Edwards wrote: >> And more generally that programmers sticking to text when rest of >> world has moved on is rather backward: >> http://blog.languager.org/2012/10/html-is-why-mess-in-programming-syntax.html > > The same reason

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

On Tuesday, April 19, 2016 at 7:30:18 PM UTC+5:30, Tim Chase wrote: > On 2016-04-19 04:37, Rustom Mody wrote: > > > No, they will not, because they'll make your code proprietary. > > > > Pragmatically yes; theoretically no because its like saying > > "If one dont want to get locked down to

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

On 2016-04-19, Pete Forman wrote: > My question asks why monospace is used for the text. Well, I always use a monospaced font for code because I find it helps readability for things like tables of data, block comments, and lines of code that have some sort of parallel

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 12:05 AM, Random832 wrote: > Source file contains: > ### Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Etiam > ### ut mattis leo. In sed arcu gravida, consequat tellus placerat, > ### ullamcorper metus. > if foo: > if bar: >

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

On Tue, Apr 19, 2016, at 08:55, Rustom Mody wrote: > > Like, it ends up looking like this: > > > > if foo("what if it's a much longer condition"):# comment > > do something # > >

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

On 2016-04-19 04:37, Rustom Mody wrote: > > No, they will not, because they'll make your code proprietary. > > Pragmatically yes; theoretically no because its like saying > "If one dont want to get locked down to MSWord proprietary tools > and formats one should use latex" > Refuted by the fact

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 11:31 PM, Tim Chase wrote: > Likewise, I detest aligning comments and almost always prefer to put > them in a neighboring line if there's continuation: > > foo = bar * 3 + 2 # we have 3 bars > # plus one for margin

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

On 2016-04-19 14:47, Marko Rauhamaa wrote: > We need a PEP to distinguish also between: > - typefaces (Times New Roman vs Garamond) > - weights (bold vs thin) > - serifs (with or without) > - sizes (8pt vs 11pt) > - colors (goldenrod vs maroon) Like HTML & CSS, the goal should be to separate

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

Op 19-04-16 om 13:47 schreef Marko Rauhamaa: > Prehistoric programming languages considered uppercase/lowercase > differences insignificant variations. Most modern languages preserve the > distinction and in fact invite us to make a difference between: > >BLACK >Black >black > > Why

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

On Tuesday, April 19, 2016 at 9:41:24 AM UTC+5:30, Random832 wrote: > On Mon, Apr 18, 2016, at 23:54, Rustom Mody wrote: > > Start no tabs: > > if foo# comment that is aligned > > do some stuff# across multiple indent levels > > > > Add tabs as leading indents with second line indented 1 tab

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

Rustom Mody : > In the same way and like colorforth, it would be better to distinguish >

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

On Tuesday, April 19, 2016 at 5:18:07 PM UTC+5:30, Marko Rauhamaa wrote: > Paul Rudin : > > > Pete Forman writes: > >> Why is it that Python continues to use a fixed width font and > >> therefore specifies the maximum line width as a character count? > > > > Python doesn't require the use of any

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

Paul Rudin : > Pete Forman writes: >> Why is it that Python continues to use a fixed width font and >> therefore specifies the maximum line width as a character count? > > Python doesn't require the use of any particular font for editing your >

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

On Tuesday, April 19, 2016 at 1:47:48 PM UTC+5:30, Chris Angelico wrote: > On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 6:09 PM, Marko Rauhamaa wrote: > > Now, descending back on earth, I don't believe the advantages of rich > > source code will outweigh those of plain text in the foreseeable future. > > No, they

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

Pete Forman writes: > Why is it that Python continues to use a fixed width font and therefore > specifies the maximum line width as a character count? Python doesn't require the use of any particular font for editing your code. However programmers tend to use fixed

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 6:09 PM, Marko Rauhamaa wrote: > Now, descending back on earth, I don't believe the advantages of rich > source code will outweigh those of plain text in the foreseeable future. No, they will not, because they'll make your code proprietary. Suddenly

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

Pete Forman : > I like that Nick separates out the concept of alignment with implicit > semantics from the n spaces v tabs arguments. My question asks why > monospace is used for the text. Because the so-called "plain text" is the age-old lowest common denominator for

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

Pete Forman writes: > My question asks why monospace is used for the text. Used by whom? Python the programming language (and that includes PEP 8) has nothing to say about what font you use in your text editor. -- \ “Why should I care about posterity? What's

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

Rustom Mody writes: > On Tuesday, April 19, 2016 at 6:49:34 AM UTC+5:30, sohcatoa wrote: >> On Monday, April 18, 2016 at 2:14:17 PM UTC-7, Pete Forman wrote: >> > Why is it that Python continues to use a fixed width font and therefore >> > specifies the maximum line width

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

Ian Kelly wrote: What happens when another programmer reviews the code using a different font and finds that there is only 3.5em worth of space? Do we descend into Calibri / Verdana line-length edit wars? That's easy, we just decree that all Python source code is to be displayed in this font:

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

On Mon, Apr 18, 2016, at 23:54, Rustom Mody wrote: > Start no tabs: > if foo# comment that is aligned > do some stuff# across multiple indent levels > > Add tabs as leading indents with second line indented 1 tab more > (showing tabs as |) > |if foo# comment that is aligned > ||do some stuff#

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

On Tuesday, April 19, 2016 at 9:00:12 AM UTC+5:30, Random832 wrote: > On Mon, Apr 18, 2016, at 23:04, Rustom Mody wrote: > > See elastic tabstops: http://nickgravgaard.com/elastic-tabstops/ > > >From there: > >A column block is a run of uninterrupted vertically adjacent cells. > > How's that

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

On Mon, Apr 18, 2016, at 23:04, Rustom Mody wrote: > See elastic tabstops: http://nickgravgaard.com/elastic-tabstops/ >From there: >A column block is a run of uninterrupted vertically adjacent cells. How's that going to handle this case: if foo: # comment that is aligned do some

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

On Tuesday, April 19, 2016 at 6:49:34 AM UTC+5:30, sohcatoa wrote: > On Monday, April 18, 2016 at 2:14:17 PM UTC-7, Pete Forman wrote: > > Why is it that Python continues to use a fixed width font and therefore > > specifies the maximum line width as a character count? > > > > An essential part

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

On Monday, April 18, 2016 at 2:14:17 PM UTC-7, Pete Forman wrote: > Why is it that Python continues to use a fixed width font and therefore > specifies the maximum line width as a character count? > > An essential part of the language is indentation which ought to continue > to mandate that lines

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

Pete Forman writes: > Why is it that Python continues to use a fixed width font I think you know this isn't true. > and therefore specifies the maximum line width as a character count? and that this “therefore” is not justified by that. You've seen elsewhere the

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

Ian Kelly writes: > On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 3:14 PM, Pete Forman wrote: >> Why is it that Python continues to use a fixed width font and >> therefore specifies the maximum line width as a character count? >> >> An essential part of the language is

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 3:14 PM, Pete Forman wrote: > Why is it that Python continues to use a fixed width font and therefore > specifies the maximum line width as a character count? > > An essential part of the language is indentation which ought to continue > to mandate

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

Why is it that Python continues to use a fixed width font and therefore specifies the maximum line width as a character count? An essential part of the language is indentation which ought to continue to mandate that lines start with a multiple of 4 em worth of space (or some other size or encode

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 8:25 PM, Terry Reedy wrote: > On 4/16/2016 12:58 PM, Larry Martell wrote: > >> On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 12:51 PM, Marko Rauhamaa >> wrote: >> >>> Larry Martell : >>> >>> I have worked for many companies where

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

2016-04-18 5:19 GMT+02:00 Steven D'Aprano : > On Mon, 18 Apr 2016 11:39 am, Rustom Mody wrote: > >> yes we can agree on this -- arbitrary line lengths are almost certainly >> unreadable. >> The problem then becomes so what is optimal? > > I really don't think it is a problem.

Re: [OT] Java generics (was: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated)

On 18 April 2016 at 09:30, Chris Angelico wrote: > On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 8:02 AM, Tim Delaney > wrote: > > I also wouldn't describe Java as a > > "perfectly good language" - it is at best a compromise language that just > > happened to be heavily

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

On Monday, April 18, 2016 at 2:34:10 PM UTC+5:30, Gregory Ewing wrote: > Rustom Mody wrote: > > Come to think of it take an SQL DBMS browser. > > Should we say: Horizontal scrolls are BAD; just reformat the table after > > reaching 80 columns? > > I would say, yes, horizontal scrolling *is* bad

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

Gregory Ewing : > Marko Rauhamaa wrote: >> Steven D'Aprano : >> >>>def Do_The_Thing(): >>>def internal_subpart_start(): ... >>>def internal_subpart_middle(): ... >>>def internal_subpart_end(): ... >>>... >> >> That really should be

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

Rustom Mody wrote: Come to think of it take an SQL DBMS browser. Should we say: Horizontal scrolls are BAD; just reformat the table after reaching 80 columns? I would say, yes, horizontal scrolling *is* bad in a table -- probably even worse than it is for text or code. The reason is that

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

Marko Rauhamaa wrote: Steven D'Aprano : def Do_The_Thing(): def internal_subpart_start(): ... def internal_subpart_middle(): ... def internal_subpart_end(): ... ... That really should be done more. C weaned us from the routine Pascal mechanism, but there's no

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

Steven D'Aprano : > One technique which is common in Pascal, but less so in Python, is to get > the best of both worlds by using nested functions. In Python syntax: > > def Do_The_Thing(): > def internal_subpart_start(): ... > def internal_subpart_middle(): ... >

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

On Sunday, April 17, 2016 at 3:34:56 PM UTC+5:30, BartC wrote: > On 17/04/2016 04:44, Rustom Mody wrote: > > On Saturday, April 16, 2016 at 10:22:10 PM UTC+5:30, Marko Rauhamaa wrote: > > >> It comes with the maxim that one function must be visible at once on the > >> screen. > > > > Thats a

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

On Monday, April 18, 2016 at 8:49:33 AM UTC+5:30, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > On Mon, 18 Apr 2016 11:39 am, Rustom Mody wrote: > > > yes we can agree on this -- arbitrary line lengths are almost certainly > > unreadable. > > The problem then becomes so what is optimal? > > I really don't think it

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

On Mon, 18 Apr 2016 11:39 am, Rustom Mody wrote: > yes we can agree on this -- arbitrary line lengths are almost certainly > unreadable. > The problem then becomes so what is optimal? I really don't think it is a problem. We have about 400 years of experience with printed text, and that

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

On Sun, 17 Apr 2016 09:01 pm, Marko Rauhamaa wrote: > In fact, if you find yourself introducing coding "paragraphs" with > comments: > > def f(...): > # I'll start by doing this > ... > # segueing into the middle portion > ... > # and finish it off as follows > ... > > you had better break

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

On Sunday, April 17, 2016 at 9:19:48 AM UTC+5:30, Chris Angelico wrote: > On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 1:44 PM, Rustom Mody wrote: > > Thats a strange self-contradiction. I wrote this: > > http://blog.languager.org/2012/10/layout-imperative-in-functional.html > > to make the case against PEP8 style

Re: [OT] Java generics (was: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated)

On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 11:03 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > On Mon, 18 Apr 2016 09:30 am, Chris Angelico wrote: > >> "Java" was originally four related, but separate, concepts: a source >> language, a bytecode, a sandboxing system, and one other that I can't >> now remember. >

Re: [OT] Java generics (was: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated)

On Mon, 18 Apr 2016 09:30 am, Chris Angelico wrote: > "Java" was originally four related, but separate, concepts: a source > language, a bytecode, a sandboxing system, and one other that I can't > now remember. The virtual machine? Or is that what you mean by bytecode? The Java Virtual Machine

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

On Sun, Apr 17, 2016, at 19:56, Gregory Ewing wrote: > And then legacy command-line exes will be supported by running > cmd.exe under WINE in the Linux subsystem. Running the command directly under WINE, more like. Because cmd.exe is pretty terrible as a scripting language and command interpreter

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

Michael Torrie wrote: On 04/17/2016 10:13 AM, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote: On Sat, 16 Apr 2016 21:59:01 -0400, Random832 declaimed the following: I heard Windows 10 is going to finally fix this, anyway. Probably by removing the old CLI window completely and

Re: [OT] Java generics (was: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated)

On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 8:02 AM, Tim Delaney wrote: > I also wouldn't describe Java as a > "perfectly good language" - it is at best a compromise language that just > happened to be heavily promoted and accepted at the right time. > > Python is *much* closer to my

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

Marko Rauhamaa writes: > Chris Angelico : > > > What more often happens is that, once the function exceeds the > > stipulated maximum, it gets split somewhat arbitrarily into a > > "master" function and several "part" functions, with each part > > having

[OT] Java generics (was: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated)

On 17 April 2016 at 23:38, Ian Kelly wrote: > > Java generics ruined a perfectly good language. I mean: > > The diamond operator in JDK 7 makes this a lot more tolerable, IMO: > > Map customersOfAccountManager = > new HashMap<>(); > To

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

On 04/17/2016 10:13 AM, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote: > On Sat, 16 Apr 2016 21:59:01 -0400, Random832 > declaimed the following: > >> >> I heard Windows 10 is going to finally fix this, anyway. > > Probably by removing the old CLI window completely and making everyone >

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 11:13 AM, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote: > On Sat, 16 Apr 2016 21:59:01 -0400, Random832 > declaimed the following: >> >>I heard Windows 10 is going to finally fix this, anyway. > > Probably by removing the old CLI window

Re: Falsehoods People Believe about PEP 8 (was: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated)

On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 6:21 AM, Ben Finney wrote: > Chris Angelico writes: > >> Maybe we need a blog post "Falsehoods Programmers Believe About PEP >> 8", along the lines of the ones about time and names. > > Great suggestion. (Do you have a blog on

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

On 2016-04-17 16:35, Coos Haak wrote: > Op Sat, 16 Apr 2016 20:30:52 -0500 schreef Tim Chase: > >> Try `mode con cols=120 lines=30`. > > > > Yeah, that will do it, as will going into the settings and > > changing it. But basically every other program on Windows, and > > every console on

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

Op Sat, 16 Apr 2016 20:30:52 -0500 schreef Tim Chase: > On 2016-04-16 19:39, eryk sun wrote: >> On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 4:50 PM, Tim Chase wrote: >>> I also do some editing/diffing within a cmd.exe window on Windows >>> which is limited to 80 characters unless you do some hijinks in >>> the

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 4:30 PM, Marko Rauhamaa wrote: > > Java generics ruined a perfectly good language. I mean: > > Map customersOfAccountManager = > new HashMap(); > > where classic Java would have: > >

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

Chris Angelico : > On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 9:01 PM, Marko Rauhamaa wrote: >> In fact, if you find yourself introducing coding "paragraphs" with >> comments: >> >> def f(...): >> # I'll start by doing this >> ... >> # segueing into

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

On 17/04/2016 12:14, Chris Angelico wrote: On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 9:01 PM, Marko Rauhamaa wrote: In fact, if you find yourself introducing coding "paragraphs" with comments: def f(...): # I'll start by doing this ... # segueing into the

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 9:01 PM, Marko Rauhamaa wrote: > In fact, if you find yourself introducing coding "paragraphs" with > comments: > > def f(...): > # I'll start by doing this > ... > # segueing into the middle portion > ... > #

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

Rustom Mody : > On Saturday, April 16, 2016 at 10:22:10 PM UTC+5:30, Marko Rauhamaa wrote: >> A max line length of 79 characters is among the *only* rigorous >> principles I judge coding style on. >> >> It comes with the maxim that one function must be visible at once on

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

On 17/04/2016 04:44, Rustom Mody wrote: On Saturday, April 16, 2016 at 10:22:10 PM UTC+5:30, Marko Rauhamaa wrote: It comes with the maxim that one function must be visible at once on the screen. Thats a strange self-contradiction. I wrote this:

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 12:10 AM, Random832 wrote: > > On Sun, Apr 17, 2016, at 01:01, eryk sun wrote: >> It doesn't support fonts that mix half-width and full-width glyphs. > > This is the most baffling bit to me. I mean, it _has_ to, for Chinese, > Japanese, and Korean

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

On Sun, Apr 17, 2016, at 01:01, eryk sun wrote: > It doesn't support fonts that mix half-width and full-width glyphs. This is the most baffling bit to me. I mean, it _has_ to, for Chinese, Japanese, and Korean users. This support obviously exists in the code. Why not extend it to everyone,

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 8:30 PM, Tim Chase wrote: > On 2016-04-16 19:39, eryk sun wrote: >> On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 4:50 PM, Tim Chase wrote: >> > I also do some editing/diffing within a cmd.exe window on Windows >> > which is limited to 80 characters unless you do

Re: Falsehoods People Believe about PEP 8 (was: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated)

On Sun, 17 Apr 2016 11:48:11 +1000, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > On Sun, 17 Apr 2016 09:35 am, Dan Sommers wrote: > >> We (this mailing list, or maybe it was the python-ideas mailing list) >> just had a thread about non-ASCII characters in identifiers. One of >> the main argument against is the

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 1:44 PM, Rustom Mody wrote: > Thats a strange self-contradiction. I wrote this: > http://blog.languager.org/2012/10/layout-imperative-in-functional.html > to make the case against PEP8 style line length strictures. > Which has the SAME code

Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

On Saturday, April 16, 2016 at 10:22:10 PM UTC+5:30, Marko Rauhamaa wrote: > Larry Martell : > > > I have worked for many companies where you are required to get a clean > > run of pep8 on your code before your pull request will even be > > considered for approval. I don't agree with this at all,

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