On Apr 23, 11:44 am, Rui Maciel wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> > Nobody forces you to do anything. Python is open source, and the source
> > code is freely available.
>
> That goes both ways, with the added benefit that python-tkinter is already
> available in distro's official repositories. I
On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 4:48 PM, Rui Maciel wrote:
> Chris Angelico wrote:
>
>> 30 years ago, people weren't using Tk.
>
> And after 30 years gone by, some people still don't use Tk, let alone
> Tkinter. There is absolutely no reason to force them to install that if
> they don't need to.
Agreed;
On 2013.04.23 00:49, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> Obviously you cannot display an X window without
> X, well duh, but merely importing tkinter doesn't require an X display.
Importing it doesn't. Doing anything useful with it, however, does. Would you
consider the engine an optional part of a car? Af
Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> No, the job of the package system is to manage dependencies. It makes no
> guarantee about whether or not something will "work".
The purpose of establishing dependencies is to guarantee that once a
software package is installed, all the necessary components needed for it
Chris Angelico wrote:
> 30 years ago, people weren't using Tk.
And after 30 years gone by, some people still don't use Tk, let alone
Tkinter. There is absolutely no reason to force them to install that if
they don't need to.
> We've moved on beyond worrying about the odd kilobyte of space.
Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> Nobody forces you to do anything. Python is open source, and the source
> code is freely available.
That goes both ways, with the added benefit that python-tkinter is already
available in distro's official repositories. If you want to install it, go
for it. Nothing st
On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 3:33 PM, Bob Martin wrote:
> in 695509 20130422 081727 Steven D'Aprano
> wrote:
>
>>I think that if you are worrying about the overhead of the tkinter
>>bindings for Python, you're guilty of premature optimization. The tkinter
>>package in Python 3.3 is trivially small, u
in 695509 20130422 081727 Steven D'Aprano
wrote:
>I think that if you are worrying about the overhead of the tkinter
>bindings for Python, you're guilty of premature optimization. The tkinter
>package in Python 3.3 is trivially small, under 2 MB.
"trivially small"?
30 years ago a small mainfram
On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 19:47:26 -0500, Andrew Berg wrote:
> On 2013.04.22 19:22, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> It's only when I actually try to do something that requires an X
>> display that it will fail. I won't show the entire traceback, because
>> it is long and not particularly enlightening, but the
On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 2:03 PM, Steven D'Aprano
wrote:
> On Tue, 23 Apr 2013 10:36:38 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 10:22 AM, Steven D'Aprano
>> wrote:
>>> It's only when I actually try to do something that requires an X
>>> display that it will fail. I won't show the
On Tue, 23 Apr 2013 10:36:38 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 10:22 AM, Steven D'Aprano
> wrote:
>> It's only when I actually try to do something that requires an X
>> display that it will fail. I won't show the entire traceback, because
>> it is long and not particularly en
On Apr 23, 5:22 am, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> We're also glossing over what it means to be a dependency. This is not
> obvious, and in fact I would argue that X is NOT a dependency for
> tkinter, even though tkinter will not "work" without it, for some
> definition of work. I can quite happily impo
On 2013.04.22 19:22, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> It's only when I actually try to do something that requires an X display
> that it will fail. I won't show the entire traceback, because it is long
> and not particularly enlightening, but the final error message explains
> exactly why it isn't worki
On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 10:22 AM, Steven D'Aprano
wrote:
> It's only when I actually try to do something that requires an X display
> that it will fail. I won't show the entire traceback, because it is long
> and not particularly enlightening, but the final error message explains
> exactly why it
On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 14:52:39 +0200, Antoon Pardon wrote:
> Op 22-04-13 11:18, Steven D'Aprano schreef:
>> On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 03:08:24 -0500, Andrew Berg wrote:
>>
>>> Much of the stdlib doesn't rely on anything but the core interpreter.
>>> tkinter by itself is not the issue. As you said, the bin
On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 22:09:14 +0100, Rui Maciel wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>
>> I think that if you are worrying about the overhead of the tkinter
>> bindings for Python, you're guilty of premature optimization.
>
> I'm not worried about that. No one should be forced to install crap
> that
Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> I think that if you are worrying about the overhead of the tkinter
> bindings for Python, you're guilty of premature optimization.
I'm not worried about that. No one should be forced to install crap that
they don't use or will ever need, no matter how great the average
lcrocker wrote:
> I'm a programmer, I installed Tkinter, and use it. I'd like to deploy
> programs written with it to others. **Those** people know nothing
> about it, and **shouldn't have to**.
They don't need to. The only person that needs to know what he is doing is
you. You want to distr
On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 9:18 PM, lcrocker wrote:
> On Apr 21, 11:36 pm, Rui Maciel wrote:
>> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> > It's only easy to install a package on Ubuntu if you know that you have
>> > to, and can somehow work out the name of the package.
>>
>> No one actually has to install tkinter.
Op 22-04-13 11:18, Steven D'Aprano schreef:
> On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 03:08:24 -0500, Andrew Berg wrote:
>
>> Much of the stdlib doesn't rely on anything but the core interpreter.
>> tkinter by itself is not the issue. As you said, the bindings are tiny.
>> However, in order to be usable, it requires q
On Apr 22, 4:18 pm, lcrocker wrote:
> On Apr 21, 11:36 pm, Rui Maciel wrote:
>
> > Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> > > It's only easy to install a package on Ubuntu if you know that you have
> > > to, and can somehow work out the name of the package.
>
> > No one actually has to install tkinter. That's
On Apr 22, 11:35 am, Rui Maciel wrote:
> lcrocker wrote:
> >
> > I recently recommended
> > Python to a friend who wants to start learning programming. Hurdles
> > like this don't help someone like him.
>
> If your friend believes that having to do an extra pair of clicks or typing
> sudo apt-get
On Apr 21, 11:36 pm, Rui Maciel wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> > It's only easy to install a package on Ubuntu if you know that you have
> > to, and can somehow work out the name of the package.
>
> No one actually has to install tkinter. That's the whole point of providing
> it as a separate
On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 03:08:24 -0500, Andrew Berg wrote:
> Much of the stdlib doesn't rely on anything but the core interpreter.
> tkinter by itself is not the issue. As you said, the bindings are tiny.
> However, in order to be usable, it requires quite a few things - most
> notably X. On desktop L
On 2013.04.22 02:17, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> I think that if you are worrying about the overhead of the tkinter
> bindings for Python, you're guilty of premature optimization. The tkinter
> package in Python 3.3 is trivially small, under 2 MB.
>
> Besides, how far do we go? Do we expect people
On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 07:36:47 +0100, Rui Maciel wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>
>> It's only easy to install a package on Ubuntu if you know that you have
>> to, and can somehow work out the name of the package.
>
> No one actually has to install tkinter. That's the whole point of
> providing
Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> It's only easy to install a package on Ubuntu if you know that you have
> to, and can somehow work out the name of the package.
No one actually has to install tkinter. That's the whole point of providing
it as a separate package: only those who want to use it have to in
lcrocker wrote:
> I understand that for something like a server distribution, but Ubuntu
> is a user-focused desktop distribution. It has a GUI, always.
Irrelevant.
> The
> purpose of a distro like that is to give users a good experience. If I
> install Python on Windows, I get to use Python
On 2013.04.21 23:34, rusi wrote:
> On Apr 22, 9:24 am, Andrew Berg wrote:
>> On 2013.04.21 22:57, Steven D'Aprano wrote:> It's only easy to install a
>> package on Ubuntu if you know that you have
>> > to, and can somehow work out the name of the package.
>>
>> I haven't worked with Ubuntu or apt
On Apr 22, 9:24 am, Andrew Berg wrote:
> On 2013.04.21 22:57, Steven D'Aprano wrote:> It's only easy to install a
> package on Ubuntu if you know that you have
> > to, and can somehow work out the name of the package.
>
> I haven't worked with Ubuntu or apt-based packaging in ages, but isn't this
On 2013.04.21 22:57, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> It's only easy to install a package on Ubuntu if you know that you have
> to, and can somehow work out the name of the package.
I haven't worked with Ubuntu or apt-based packaging in ages, but isn't this
kind of information in a description message or
On Apr 22, 8:57 am, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Apr 2013 18:10:58 +0200, Sibylle Koczian wrote:
> > Am 19.04.2013 19:42, schrieb lcrocker:
> >> I understand that for something like a server distribution, but Ubuntu
> >> is a user-focused desktop distribution. It has a GUI, always. The
> >>
On Sat, 20 Apr 2013 18:10:58 +0200, Sibylle Koczian wrote:
> Am 19.04.2013 19:42, schrieb lcrocker:
>> I understand that for something like a server distribution, but Ubuntu
>> is a user-focused desktop distribution. It has a GUI, always. The
>> purpose of a distro like that is to give users a goo
Am 19.04.2013 19:42, schrieb lcrocker:
I understand that for something like a server distribution, but Ubuntu
is a user-focused desktop distribution. It has a GUI, always. The
purpose of a distro like that is to give users a good experience. If I
install Python on Windows, I get to use Python. On
On Fri, 19 Apr 2013 10:17:58 -0700, lcrocker wrote:
> Am I mistaken in my belief that tkinter is a non-optional part of the
> Python language? I installed the "python3" package on Ubuntu, and
> tkinter is not included--it's an optional package "python3-tk" that has
> to be installed separately. I
On 4/19/2013 1:17 PM, lcrocker wrote:
Am I mistaken in my belief that tkinter is a non-optional part of the
Python language?
Yes. The PSF CPython Windows installer makes installation of
tcl/tk/tkinter optional. The build files will compile and build Python
without tkinter and without other mo
On 2013.04.19 12:42, lcrocker wrote:
> I understand that for something like a server distribution, but Ubuntu
> is a user-focused desktop distribution. It has a GUI, always.
That is incorrect.
http://www.ubuntu.com/server
--
CPython 3.3.0 | Windows NT 6.2.9200 / FreeBSD 9.1
--
http://mail.python
On Apr 19, 10:42 pm, lcrocker wrote:
> On Apr 19, 10:35 am, Andrew Berg wrote:
>
> > On 2013.04.19 12:17, lcrocker wrote:> Am I mistaken in my belief that
> > tkinter is a non-optional part of the
> > > Python language? I installed the "python3" package on Ubuntu, and
> > > tkinter is not includ
lcrocker wrote:
> Am I mistaken in my belief that tkinter is a non-optional part of the
> Python language? I installed the "python3" package on Ubuntu, and
> tkinter is not included--it's an optional package "python3-tk" that
> has to be installed separately. I reported this as a bug as was
> summ
On Apr 19, 10:35 am, Andrew Berg wrote:
> On 2013.04.19 12:17, lcrocker wrote:> Am I mistaken in my belief that tkinter
> is a non-optional part of the
> > Python language? I installed the "python3" package on Ubuntu, and
> > tkinter is not included--it's an optional package "python3-tk" that
> >
On 2013.04.19 12:17, lcrocker wrote:
> Am I mistaken in my belief that tkinter is a non-optional part of the
> Python language? I installed the "python3" package on Ubuntu, and
> tkinter is not included--it's an optional package "python3-tk" that
> has to be installed separately. I reported this as
Thanks, but I'm not having any trouble running tkinter, it works just
fine. I have an issue with the fact that it's optional. It reflects
badly on the language and community if we allow just anyone to call
something "Python" that doesn't meet some minimum standard of quality.
Java has its complianc
On Fri, Apr 19, 2013 at 1:17 PM, lcrocker wrote:
> Am I mistaken in my belief that tkinter is a non-optional part of the
> Python language? I installed the "python3" package on Ubuntu, and
> tkinter is not included--it's an optional package "python3-tk" that
> has to be installed separately. I re
Am I mistaken in my belief that tkinter is a non-optional part of the
Python language? I installed the "python3" package on Ubuntu, and
tkinter is not included--it's an optional package "python3-tk" that
has to be installed separately. I reported this as a bug as was
summarily slapped down.
Can we
44 matches
Mail list logo
