to make Python "a better systems
programming
language". ISTM that it's already pretty good at those tasks, and if it's a
little harder
to do a few things, maybe that's the cost of keeping most things easy.
In any case, the Python object model is very flexible, and
situations where it causes trouble. The most important
exception would have to be the behavior of lambda and locally-defined
functions --- I still expect them to know the variables in the defining
function's namespace. But I think that lexical scoping fixed this
so that they do, IIRC (I don
ere's a simpler way?
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st comprehensions, since they are expressions.
I might be able to mangle something into doing it, but it's
probably a bad idea anyway. I think your loop is stylistically
fine as is (if you need to change the list in place).
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'la vache brun']
(count from 1, every 2nd element)
This, of course, is to generate two parallel lists from your one.
"zip" well, *zips* two or more lists together:
>>> zip(translations[::2], translations[1::2])
[('en', 'the brown cow'), ('f
ned
within itself. Such a structure is not strictly a "tree" any more,
but a "directed graph". Those are the data structures terms for
them, and you might try a little googling to learn more about them.
The *really* smart thing is that Python *writes* the list as:
o wind up with empty strings, which
you can strip out pretty easily).
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ree that Python doesn't have them.
*Which is just this:
.../Zope-2.7.0/lib/python> find . -name "*.py" -exec grep -v -e "^#" {} \; |
grep -v -e '^$' | wc
158046 591237 6312725
.../ZopeX3/lib/python> find . -name "*.py" -exec grep -v -e "^
three different common idioms for defining a
function (IIRC). :-/
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On Friday 01 July 2005 12:53 pm, Scott David Daniels wrote:
> Terry Hancock wrote:
> > I only just recently had a look at the shelve module
> > That would be handy if, for example, I wanted to couple
> > (and compress into the bargain) by putting my two
> > sh
;-)
As for how to do this in SQL? I'm pretty sure that you can do
ranges in SQL, but I'd have to look up the syntax for inequality
statements. The python equivalent would be to write it out as:
if a > b-epsilon and a < b+epsilon:
print "a~=b"
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e to have a strong sense of humor to
appreciate it.
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if b-epsilon < a < b+epsilon:
This I knew, but I was trying to write the closest thing
to what the SQL code would look like, and I didn't know
about BETWEEN.
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ce side benefit), but your post reminded me that I could do
it with zlib on the data *before* storing them in the shelf. I guess if
bulk becomes an issue I'll try that.
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it isn't really all
that hard to understand. It's just not been well-introduced,
because the people explaining it have a tendency to forget
that it isn't all obvious, because it seems that way to
them, now that they know it.
But that's the newbie's problem in all areas of software, ISTM.
HTH,
Terry
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the caller, and keyword arguments
will make it possible to set them by name. Example (2) doesn't validate
the arguments -- allowing you to set any arbitrary collection of values
you want (can be a useful way to create a shared namespace), but (3)
does (which is probably important if your class a
"No."
I did already post a serious reply, but now I'm afraid I've been
trolled. :-P
I was assuming you actually wanted to know what Zope was.
Yes, it is a funny story, though. ;-)
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e *been* 14.
I suppose it's also worth mentioning that programming and CS
aren't mostly about number-crunching anymore, so a lot of people
never bother with floats.
Which seems totally bizarre to me, since I cut my teeth on graphics
and moved on to scientific programming, but there you
't seem to make AutoFold do anything at all, so
I must be using it wrong.
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On Saturday 02 July 2005 10:50 pm, Peter Hansen wrote:
> Terry Hancock wrote:
> > On Saturday 02 July 2005 08:53 pm, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> > And for that matter, some of the posters here have *been* 14.
>
> Terry, almost every single one of the posters here have be
On Saturday 02 July 2005 10:35 pm, Terry Hancock wrote:
> I tried to load a couple of different scripts to
> automatically fold Python code in vim, but none of them
> seems to do a good job.
>
> I've tried:
> python_fold.vim by Jorrit Wiersma
> http://www.vim.org/sc
o heavily *after*
you've learned the language. Meanwhile, don't let trifles get in the
way -- just use your window system as your IDE. That way, you
can pick the editor to suit you. And the Python interpreter is great,
it will give you no trouble and quick answers.
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Zope, because it isn't
really desireable to have to write the file out to disk and read
it back when you've already got it in memory.
Quack! ;-)
Terry
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lly plain English:
"call the function "str" on x, for every x in sequence"
Other than chopping out a few words, and using the () operator instead
of "call", it's hard to imagine this being any closer to exactly what you
would say to describe the operati
On Monday 04 July 2005 07:42 am, Ivan Van Laningham wrote:
> Terry Hancock wrote:
> > I also got "space_hi.vim" which highlights tabs
> > and trailing spaces, which made it a lot easier to fix the
> > problem.
>
> Is that really the name? I tried searc
xperienced should be expected to adapt,
you have the wherewithall to do so. It is the new user for whom the clarity
of the jargon is so important.
Personally, I find the term "anonymous function" to be a whole lot clearer
than "lambda" or "lambda function". Indeed, if asked what "lambda" means,
my reply is it's a "stupid name for an anonymous function", and if my
listener is less savvy "for a function that doesn't have a name, because you
only use it once".
Having said that, I too will miss the *concept* of an anonymous function,
although I wouldn't mind at all if its name changed, or if it were somehow
integrated into the "def" keyword's usage. Using backticks or some other
syntax delimiter also sounds promising, although we're sort of running out
of them. ;-)
--
*An unfortunate acronym for "Gnu Collaborative International Dictionary
of English".
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Services" section of the LR? Seems like we
ought to get Numeric and/or Numarray and group all of
these in a separate "Math & Science" section.
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#x27;s easy to forget which you're using (unless you're right next
to the mark).
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ing with my old "tainted"
files.
All better now. :-)
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On Monday 04 July 2005 10:21 am, phil wrote:
> A data base with properties and methods. Cool.
I am so sure I already said this. Well, I guess I typed
too much else.
Cheers,
Terry
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h
ame term
in base 3 will be 3^-x/2 = 10^5/2 places, which can be solved
using logarithms, but I'll "leave that as an excercise for the reader",
because I'm too lazy to go look it up, and I've forgotten the
details. ;-)
I hope this is helpful, though,
Terry
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you
use and/or study (and studying existing packages
is one of the best ways to learn once you've gotten
beyond the basic hurdle of writing simple programs).
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I still will
have to disagree.
OTOH, if you just want the functionality of lambda to remain,
I must say I agree. It's a useful construct.
But it *is* poorly named. It really stands out as the least
intuitive keyword in the language, IMHO.
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in some of the other languages
you could be attempting this in. I've only tried regexes in
Python, Perl, and Javascript, but Python is definitely the one
I find easiest to cope with. ;-)
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ces and
> backspace over a block of 4 spaces deletes all of them (just like
> deleting a tab).
Yep, this is what I just set up in my .vimrc. Works beautifully.
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re a callable object.
Wouldn't do anything more or less than present day "lambda", but
gets rid of the weird keyword, and integrates nicely with list comps
and generators. It's currently a syntax error, and it requires no
special delimiter -- it's really j
On Wednesday 06 July 2005 09:41 am, Steven Bethard wrote:
> Terry Hancock wrote:
> > And a syntax just occured to me -- what about this:
> > [ for ]
>
> If you haven't already, see:
> http://wiki.python.org/moin/AlternateLambdaSyntax
> for other similar proposal
On Wednesday 06 July 2005 08:38 am, Tom Anderson wrote:
> On Wed, 6 Jul 2005, Terry Hancock wrote:
> > With list comprehensions and generators becoming so integral, I'm
> > not sure about "unpythonic".
>
> I'm going to resist the temptation to argue tha
matted
for aesthetic reasons, then you might reasonably want to use
Python to do that as you suggest.
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t's probably undesireable
since the file is meant to be machine-generated.
I have no pressing immediate need for this functionality
(that I know of), but I'd like to understand how to access
this capability if it exists.
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;m sure there are other examples.
The missing thing here is not that there's no way to do it, but rather
that it's a common enough task that there ought to be *one* way to do
it and it ought to be in the library. Otherwise, there's a lot of
redundancy.
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t "seq[%d] = %s is not None" % (i, repr(x))
?
But of course that's not equivalent. It's hard to imagine a
use case for an enumerated loop when the object being
iterated over is anonymous (will be lost as soon as the loop
exits).
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ak N" statement...
>
>
>
> Presumably you meant "cue discussion..."
>
>
Or "queue" as in, it's going to have to take a number and wait for
someone to be bored enough with the ten other language "enhancement"
threads that have gone
or some such thing) and
"input" to vanish into greater obscurity as "eval_input" or something.
Unfortunately, that would break code if anything relied on "input", so I
guess that would be a Py3K idea, and maybe the whole I/O concept
will be rethought then (if the "print
import packages by
something like "../main_package/other_subpackage/module2.py"
has been suggested, and you can implement something like this using
the __import__ built-in as suggested above.
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t up to load like a single module. For the purposes of this
discussion, the two terms are basically interchangeable (we
really ought to have a single term that can mean either -- I usually
speak loosely of "modules" regardless of which way they are
actually defined).
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oms. See the "language reference" for
details on these statement blocks.
If you're using "goto" for anything these blocks aren't appropriate for,
then you should probably read the advice in the other replies. ;-)
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thing" that you can
imagine swapping out in a more sophisticated implementation with lots
of different variations (e.g. data formats, guis, etc). Clearly modularizing
along the lines of interchangeable elements is also a good approach.
HTH,
Terry
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s certainly
> taught me a few tricks ... like when to take her for a walk, when to play
> ball, and when its time for a tummy rub.)
Ah, of course. My mistake. ;-)
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ondering why?
I'm not sure either, yet, but can you indicate which line in your
listing is 102 in the source file? That might be helpful.
Cheers,
Terry
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er time
> expensive.
While bitmap font files are not copyrightable, there are license issues
with most of the "nicer" fonts you are probably talking about. That
complicates bundling them with the software. The PIL site does
actually have some additional fonts for do
dbook/imagefont.htm for more
Wow, I didn't know about that new feature. I gotta use that. ;-)
I'd say that if you can do that, it's probably not worth messing with
the PIL fonts. There are lots of suitable free TrueType fonts available
on the web (many of which are also f
On Thursday 21 July 2005 03:47 am, red wrote:
> Terry Hancock wrote:
> > I'm not sure either, yet, but can you indicate which line in your
> > listing is 102 in the source file? That might be helpful.
>
> 101: ## f1.normal = copy.deepcopy(f.normal)
> 102: f1.n
On Thursday 21 July 2005 08:17 pm, Terry Hancock wrote:
> But is "faces" a list,
> dictionary, or tuple (or something more obscure)?
Lest it be unclear why this matters:
>>> da = {'a':1, 'b':2, 'c':3}
>>> for d in da:
... pri
On Thursday 21 July 2005 11:29 am, phil hunt wrote:
> On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 02:44:03 -0500, Terry Hancock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >On Wednesday 20 July 2005 11:59 pm, phil hunt wrote:
> >> I am trying to generate some images (gifs or pngs) with text in
> >> t
ot; of the copy
you are selling, which means you can (sustainably) charge a bit more.
Still hard to make money at it, though.
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t;
> One sure thing is that it would help, later, if you ever want to
> internationalise a Python program. Not that it occurs that often! :-)
Whoa. Why? Does xgettext not recognize _('')? I'm just learning
to use it. Maybe I should pay attention to this point if t
very Pythonic in my thinking.
> Thanks again...
I think this is the "regexes can't count" problem. When the repetition
count matters, you usually need something else. Usually some
combination of string and list methods will do the trick, as here.
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t PDF as
well as Postscript. On a Linux system, you probably already
have this installed. On other platforms, you may have to provide
it.
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I think it's just a script
to run ghostscript with the appropriate options).
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/anygui.sourceforge.net/
AFAIK, the project stalled because not enough people were
sufficiently interested in the need. Some people said that
just using wx or Tkinter was easier.
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g
them into a list.
b = [] * 2
calls the function only once, and then makes two references
to it.
Which is just exactly what random is doing in the example
above, except that it's easier to see that that is a function call,
which is presumably the value of mentioning it. ;-)
Cheers,
Terry
that None doesn't have, like it says.
Definitely check the PIL manual for what Image.Image() is
supposed to return, and what it requires to have valid output.
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calls yours, it's a framework.
Such concision deserves applause. ;-)
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't really want to program
it much at all -- you just need a tweak here and there beyond what
it already does. Gimp plugins are a great example of that.
Cheers,
Terry
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JPG for delivery. PIL can do that.
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library documentation.
Any suggestions on getting pydoc, happydoc, or yet another
documentation generator to do this, would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers,
Terry
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On Sunday 21 August 2005 07:37 am, Terry Hancock wrote:
> I've been trying to use "happydoc" to document a source
> tree that I'm working on.
> [...]
> Any suggestions on getting pydoc, happydoc, or yet another
> documentation generator to do this, would be
gain -- many questions are the same in any Python implementation).
In brief, however, you'd use Python with Java for the same reason so many
people with C background use Python instead of programming in C.
Or: "You *can* in principle clean a washroom with a toothbrush,
but why wo
y chances with the compiler. ;-)
Cheers,
Terry
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alk style here.
>
I think it's reasonably clear that neither poster hoped "to be taken
seriously". :-D
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ionality that I don't really want the high level class to
have to "think" about.
I mention it here, because I've never seen a property used
this way. So I'm either being very clever, or very dumb,
and I would be interested in opinions on which applies. ;-)
Am I about to shoot myself in the foot?
Cheers,
Terry
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t, I'd be interested in finding out
about it.
You probably ought to consider starting with something existing like
the Gnu EDS project -- but I'm assuming you probably already know
about that.
Cheers,
Terry
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On Wednesday 24 August 2005 09:12 pm, Peter Hansen wrote:
> Terry Hancock wrote:
> >>I have a strong EE and hardware background (hence my need to write a
> >>CAD program that doesn't piss me off), but not a CS background.
> >
> > You probably ought to con
On Thursday 25 August 2005 09:13 am, Peter Hansen wrote:
> Terry Hancock wrote:
> > On Wednesday 24 August 2005 09:12 pm, Peter Hansen wrote:
> >>Or even http://www.pythoncad.org/ which, although probably for
> >>mechanical CAD work (I haven't looked at it, don&
instead of just finding someone who speaks fluent Korean and enough
English, then you *could* send each of the statements in the *po* file
through the translator and collect the responses.
But if your boss wants this; you can ask the question here; and you can
understand your boss, then you must have *s
to run in. OTOH, if it were running in Jython
on a Java applet, it would be subject to the same sandboxing
that is provided for Java applets.
I don't know how to ensure the same limits from a Java plugin,
but I assume it's probably possible.
Cheers,
Terry
--
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lder code that relied on
details such as the order of multiple inheritence, which have changed.
So if you're just learning, just use new style classes exclusively, and
use the documentation that applies to them. I think it's fairly non-
controversial that new style classes are an impro
blocking (or watermarking if you prefer), to discourage remote-linking
of your images, etc.
An online example can be seen here: http://narya.net/Gallery
Not sure about CGI methods of doing it, though.
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27;m confused by what you meant by this. Are you saying that academics
are afraid of using or creating open source CAD tools, or that they have
a lack of interest in tools development, because it won't generate papers
(directly anyway)?
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h.
I also have to say, that as a module writer, Python's support
for self-documenting code or "literate programming" is excellent.
I'm really coming to appreciate the value of this.
I don't know, maybe I just don't have high expectations out
of documentation. I've c
nd explicit.
There isn't much hidden "magic" going on (although
movie and sound objects *do* process things in background
threads).
Cheers,
Terry
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re it is invisible, and any delusion you may have that
you can see it is a complete non-issue.
In Python we call that encapsulation.
;-D
Cheers,
Terry
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On Tuesday 30 August 2005 05:15 pm, Benji York wrote:
> Terry Hancock wrote:
> > OTOH, there are lots of poorly-documented third-party Python
> > modules (as in any language). Zope is a particularly nasty
> > example -- though I think I understand some of the reasons
>
On Wednesday 31 August 2005 07:14 am, Bryan Olson wrote:
> Terry Hancock wrote:
> > Bryan Olson wrote:
> Then how does one distinguish stable, supported services, from
> incidental behavior that can change without notice?
Surprisingly often, "common sense" seems to be a
e?
> self.y = y # How do I document here?
All of the fields are documented on the http://epydoc.sf.net
website, by the way.
Cheers,
Terry
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'machine'
> rather than a 'human' address.
I got one of these too, recently. Maybe somebody is turning up the
screws to get rid of spam that's been appearing on the list?
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Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi Spaceworks http://www.anansispa
t;. But it didn't quite fit, and
the other possible reference to the "Son of the Invisible
Man" skit*, was just way too obscure. I doubt you've ever
seen it.
*I think this was in "Amazon Women on the Moon", though it
may have been "Kentucky Fried Movie"
that more community involvement is needed,
then maybe the system needs to be more efficient at capturing
that effort, by lowering the barriers to contribution.
Perhaps this just reduces to "there ought to be a wiki"?
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Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi Spaceworks http://www.anansispaceworks.com
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d find. It is also regrettably
not being maintained anymore, AFIACT, which is why I switched
to epydoc (although epydoc seems to be a very nice product itself).
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Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi Spaceworks http://www.anansispaceworks.com
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pparently nothing.
isinstance() even checks for subclasses, if I'm not mistaken,
so the semantics should be identical.
I must confess that an "isa" operator sounds like it would
have been slightly nicer syntax than the isinstance() built-in
function. But not enough nicer to change
" as you say.
I have loads of example code to check for exact usage. And after a
couple of weeks with Python, I stopped finding the library modules'
approach to things at all surprising. I generally could guess the
correct behavior and test it right away (I have been really
though, and I
don't seem to completely understand it, as I keep having permissions
problems with it. But I know there are serious wiki people on this
list.
--
Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi Spaceworks http://www.anansispaceworks.com
--
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On Friday 02 September 2005 08:28 am, Michael Ekstrand wrote:
> On Thu, 1 Sep 2005 22:38:03 -0500
> Terry Hancock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > I don't like this, I want to document where I declare the variable
> > > below. Doxygen (www.doxygen.org), for one
fusing.
I think the manual is not so far off since "whole number" makes English
sense, if not mathematical. Certainly, if I were explaining this to my
kids I would say "whole" and not "integer" (I at least know they know what
"whole" means).
--
Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi Spaceworks http://www.anansispaceworks.com
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user.
You know, after writing that, I'm starting to rethink what people
mean when they say Windows is "easy". ;-)
Cheers,
Terry
--
Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi Spaceworks http://www.anansispaceworks.com
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
n the
Z state.
The software equivalent is throwing certain terms out of
a sum. We usually do that with control flow. Doing it
implicitly by value seems like it could be dangerous, but
I'd have to see a more complete implementation example to
be convinced one way or the other about that.
Cheers
geons into providing
it for you.
Cheers,
Terry
--
Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi Spaceworks http://www.anansispaceworks.com
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http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
this is still true). In this
case, I would guess that the Python interpreter would do the
expansion. That should avoid any limits on command length that
cmd.exe is giving you (I'm trusting that Python is much more capable).
Cheers,
Terry
--
Terry Hancock ( hancock at ana
suggestion to eschew the Perl if you can at all
get away with it. If you're already sold on Python, there's no
reason to question your judgement.
Cheers,
Terry
--
Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi Spaceworks http://www.anansispaceworks.com
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