ant is to keep the heads you have got, and
throw away the tails and throw them again. That way in only
2 or 3 throws you get the 8 heads you want.
What Henk has described is just the first step in a facility that I
have been thinking about for quite some time. The idea is to allow a
much more extensive level of self-organizing emergent NTP behavior.
But the ability of get this type of incremental behavior is
crucial to getting it to work.
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; even just a cron job.
>
>
--
blu
Screening ideas are indeed thought up by the Office for Annoying
Air Travelers and vetted through the Directorate for Confusion
and Complexity - Kip Hawley, Head of the TSA
------
Brian Ut
agged as
keepers get booted off before the new guys have proved themselves.
Brian Utterback
Jason Rabel wrote:
> I don't think that it would have to conflict with the function of NTP. Just
> keep the chosen time source and any secondary sources, dump the rest and
> re-query adding th
> Say +3 for a *, +1 for a +, and -1 for a -.
>
The current NTP daemon already has code to rank the servers.
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Danny Mayer wrote:
> Brian Utterback wrote:
>
>> Unfortunately, neither poolcasting nor preempt does what is being
>> requested, at least I know that preempt does not and poolcasting
>> doesn't if I understand it correctly. The problem with preempt (at
>>
you could get this, but you implied that ntpd wasn't
run until after the clock change. True?
If that is true, that would seem to indicate that two different clocks
are being used. Does VxWorks use the SO_TIMESTAMP socket option to get
the timestamp of the inco
previous years, I will go out on a limb here and suggest that the
time zone files on your systems are out of date and have not been
updated.
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mestamp". This value is the raw seconds and
microseconds before the correction to 1970. If this value is near
zero or rather near the uptime in seconds, then I think that would
amount to a smoking gun.
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riod of time of non-response,
the polling data for an association is cleared. When that happens,
the REFTIME for the association is used instead. And the REFTIME
can be very nearly the same as the last REC time, or it could be
wildly different.
e that discussion going anywhere in this
regard.
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n receiving the
> response. This is a property of all RPC protocols known to me that use
> addresses to match requests with responses. This is so obvious a
> requirement that maybe the specification doesn't make it clear enough.
>
> Dave
>
> Brian Utterback wrote:
>>
IP
> address. No reply is ever required of a datagram. It would be a protocol
> layering violation to do so. The NTP protocol requirement is proper in
> this context.
>
> Danny
>
> Brian Utterback wrote:
>> I beg to differ. Most UDP based protocols do not have this requirem
P.
--
blu
"You've added a new disk. Do you want to replace your current
drive, protect your data from a drive failure or expand your
storage capacity?" - Disk management as it should be.
------
Brian Utterback - Solar
Danny Mayer wrote:
> Brian Utterback wrote:
>
>> Perhaps proper, but ill-advised. Look at the trouble we have
>> had trying to satisfy that requirement. I am sitting at a
>> system that currently has over 300 UDP ports in use. Exactly
>> one of those UDP ports is b
tty silly for a RPC server not to
> know how to return the goods to its client. Maybe you are talking about
> the socket interface, rather than the protocol data unit. I wasn't.
>
> Dave
>
> Brian Utterback wrote:
>
>> I beg to differ. Most UDP based protocols do
e capacity?" - Disk management as it should be.
------
Brian Utterback - Solaris RPE, Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Ph:877-259-7345, Em:brian.utterback-at-ess-you-enn-dot-kom
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ULD was necessary. But even so,
my point is that although ther SHOULD is there, most UDP applications
on most operating systems do not actually follow the SHOULD at all.
Brian Utterback.
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mber of different processes.
All of them bound to the wildcard address except NTP.
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ckets API
would have had a way to do it easily and then I would not object at all.
>
> Hyde Park in London on Sunday Morning...
If you are saying that you are going, then have a good trip.
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nd all the local IP addresses.
--
blu
"Mr. Jefferson, build up that wall!"
--
Brian Utterback - Solaris RPE, Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Ph:877-259-7345, Em:brian.utterback-at-ess-you-enn-dot-kom
zations required to change it (one for forward lookups and
one for reverse lookups). Once the DNS is changed, it takes some
time to propagate the change due to caching, and already running
applications may never see the change unless they re-resolve.
Having one service per IP address also makes the
ion
of "nearest" is the one for which the offset is less than .5 seconds,
either in the future or the past. So, at some particular threshold of
phase offset, the clock offset determined by the PPS will switch sign,
and jump from .5 to -.5 or vice versa.
Brian utterback
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don't know about the version of ntp you are running, but recent
versions have a bug in the initial frequency calculations which
has since been fixed, but not released (ahem. Harlan?).
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k. If your goal is
to keep the offset as low as possible, just keep the poll interval
as short as possible. That doesn't take much work.
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ince the error in the sample is correlated to the size of the
delay, using samples with greater delay and thus greater error just
increases the error of the final result, not lessens it. Since the
clocks involved also slew between samples, we want to use the newest
sam
alas, my changes didn't make it in the latest
versions.
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sity of Deleware. But unless you know
what you
are trying to achieve, you will not know if you have got it.
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him with A Priori
reasoning, since
he has been doing that same reasoning for a lot longer than the rest
of us, and has
tested all his hypotheses on real systems.
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lan, especially with a low
> propagation delay of hundreds of usec rather then 100s of msec, I wonder.
>
The calculation of the offset is not affected at all by the time between
taking the two timestamps on the remote machine. In fact, on symmetric
peers, this time could be in the thousands of
oblem many years ago and suggested using burst
at that time, but thought that it would be overkill and asked
for a way to tune it to a fewer number of packets in the burst.
Dave was reticent and I was newer to the project then and didn't
want to push it. Perhaps it is time.
Brian Utterback
_
erver in a way that you could implement,
it just gives specs on a good client and says implement that if you
only want a client, and implement the whole package if you want
a server.
--
blu
"Mr. Jefferson, build up that wall!"
----
like huge jumps and filter them. A 4ms increase is just what
you would expect when ethernet timers kick in. Now imagine a RTT of
60-70ms. A 9ms delay from a collision introduces a 4ms change in the
delay value and a 2ms change in the offset, but with a delay might not
perturb the delay value eno
> Based on general principles, the stated conditions are NOT where I would
> look first for best performance.
>
Which is why NTP prefers the source with the smallest delay. The system
I am using has servers whose delays are 51ms to 94. I can't find any
closer. On my company LAN, the
David J Taylor wrote:
> Brian Utterback wrote:
> []
>> Which is why NTP prefers the source with the smallest delay. The
>> system I am using has servers whose delays are 51ms to 94. I can't
>> find any closer. On my company LAN, the delays range from 16ms to
>
jen wrote:
> Hi Harlan, I agree. Darned out of date code anyway!
>
How do you know? Maybe you just have an 11 year clock offset!
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could be prempting ntp?
>
> Danny
Not strictly true. The response packet for a symmetric association can
come back an arbitrarily long time after the request was sent. The
ntpd program does not immediately respond to symmetric packets,
instead waiting until the peer polling interv
he 69.*.*.* network? If so, do they have anything else in
common? Different? What version of NTP is running on the clients that
fail? On the ones that succeed?
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ed by packet lengths,
> buffering, retransmissions, etc., but at much longer lags you have to
> look for routing flaps, provisioning changes, etc.
>
Dave, are you saying that you saw an instance of a NTP response
arriving 2 weeks after the request was s
Do you have the frequency data from the same period as the graph? What
happened to cause the frequency to be off all of a sudden?
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ould you elaborate. Which model of Netra? Are you saying that the
model of Netra you are talking about has a serial port, but that
serial port does not have DCD connected?
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e files live in /usr/share/lib/zoneinfo/src. Change the rules in the
asia file in that directory. You can then use the zic command to
create a replacement for the /usr/share/lib/zoneinfo/Asia/Karachi file.
Brian Utterback
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que
blu/entry/spread_spectrum_emi_and_the for an
explanation of the T5120 issue.
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estion, there is a tunable and you can turn
the spread-spectrum off, but I do not know what it is. Sorry.
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ess to the one system and was not involved at
all in the firmware fix.
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rstood the simulator.
Can anyone shed some light on this for me?
Brian Utterback
brian dot utterback at sun dot com
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only stands to reason that the time keeping will be
shaky at best.
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Unruh wrote:
> I seriously doubt that redhat would recompile ntpd and put in a different
> default config file.
>
Why not? The Solaris version certainly does. It uses
/etc/inet/ntp.conf by default.
Brian Utterback
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urs to me. Would it work to have the PPS signal go to a
serial port but the actual NMEA sentences be read via USB? It seems to
me if the total jitter of the USB still kept the snetences timing
within half a second it would work.
Brian Utterback
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t
and frequency right under many typical startup conditions. Dr. Mills
isn't really interested in fixing this, not because he denies it, but
because he doesn't think it is the best area for his labors. He is
more interested in the long-haul.
Brian Utterback
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Your best bet is to create a new NTP service in SMF. You can run
"svcfg export ntp" to get the current definition. Then create a new
NTP service called ntp4, and make a new SMF method called ntp, and
then import it and you should be set.
Melanie Pfefer wrote:
> how to stop and start ntp on sola
David J Taylor wrote:
> If Solaris or HP-UX is still supplying NTP 3, I would be rather worried.
>
Be worried then. The latest bundled version of NTP on Solaris is xntpd
3-5.93e.
Not too worried though. I hope to have V4 available in OpenSolaris soon.
Brian Utt
. For political reasons, it seems like a good time would be
when 4.2.5 becomes the new stable branch.
David J Taylor wrote:
> Brian Utterback wrote:
>> David J Taylor wrote:
>>
>>> If Solaris or HP-UX is still supplying NTP 3, I would be rather
>>> worried.
>>
&g
Chris Adams wrote:
> The asymmetry in ADSL is in bandwidth, not path or latency. More
> frequency space is used for downstream (ISP->end user) communication
> than for upstream, but both travel the same path.
Decreased bandwidth means increased latency. The two are related.
Bri
Harlan Stenn wrote:
> Assuming you have accurately relayed Dave's POV, Bill, I'd be open to seeing
> if we can take Dave's policy choice and making it the default choice for a
> config file knob (mechanism) that would allow folks to get faster
> convergence.
>
> I suspect that the only way this w
Joseph Gwinn wrote:
> Also good to know, so I'll know better than to use the Sun compiler (not
> that it's bad, but that it isn't what's been worked through with NTP).
Not to worry, I make sure that the current -dev branch will always
build with the Sun Studio c
I am pleased to announce that a set of binaries for NTP version 4.2.5
are available for testing. The compressed tar file that contains the
test binaries in package format can be found at the files page of the
NTP project: http://www.opensolaris.org/os/project/ntp/files/
The tar file contains pa
David Woolley wrote:
> Brian Utterback wrote:
>
>>
>> Also, remember that with NTP, it take three servers to outvote one bad
>> one, not two. That is why best practice is to have four.
>
> It only requires 2. The argument about having four initially is about
David Woolley wrote:
> Hal Murray wrote:
>
>>
>> What do they suggest that you do with 2 servers when they
>> give back different answers?
>>
>> Maybe you could take the average? :)
>>
> ntpd already does that, as long as they don't disagree too much. Whilst
> the stratum, and error statistics,
Hal Murray wrote:
> In article <1243711613.525...@news1nwk>,
> Brian Utterback writes:
>> David Woolley wrote:
>
>>> It only requires 2. The argument about having four initially is about
>>> having a clear majority even after rejecting one.
>> I am
David Woolley wrote:
> smithmi...@googlemail.com wrote:
>
>> In the case below, will server 3 be treated as a falseticker because
>> its offset lies outside the dispersion interval of the other two
>> servers even though there is some intersection between its dispersion
>> and that of server 2.
>
s what you want in theory. I
haven't tried it in a while, but the last time I gave it a shot, I
thought that it whittled down the list way too fast. YMMV.
My personal vision is to have the NTP network be self-organizing and
emergent. I am afraid there is a long way to go in that regar
When you think that there is a mistake in an RFC, it is wise to check
the RFC errata list at http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_list.php
In the list, you will see that Dr. Mills reported this typo back in 2001.
Terje Mathisen wrote:
> Lei wrote:
>> In RFC 2030(written by Prof. D.Mills), we have ro
t more to the point, Solaris 8 is no longer supported. It is a
perfect match, an ancient OS with an ancient NTP version.
Really, why are you using Solaris 8? Use OpenSolaris. It comes with
NTP 4.2.5p172 already installed and fully supported.
Brian Utterback
___
Ulrich Windl wrote:
> Brian Utterback writes:
>> Really, why are you using Solaris 8? Use OpenSolaris. It comes with NTP
>> 4.2.5p172 already installed and fully supported.
>
> Really? I just saw Solaris 10 with ntp 3.5.93e (FAIR), but Sun tried
> hard to hide the ver
largest correction is limited to 500ppm.
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ery high, so
getting it down to under 100ppm would help a lot. As odd as it sounds,
I might be inclined to go back to having a separate start up program
(like ntpdate was) to quickly set the date and drift. Having to get
the date to within 64 years is another one of those odd, must be d
r NTP notices
and puts it back to where it is supposed to be. This isn't an NTP
issue at all, it was something external to NTP that yanked the clock.
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ike a transient error could cause this.
It would be interesting to know what OS the OP is running.
Todd Glassey wrote:
> Brian Utterback wrote:
>> Richard B. Gilbert wrote:
>>
>>
> You may find this interesting. http://lkml.org/lkml/2007/8/23/96
>>>>
is is bug 1044
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gulate the peak EMI, a piece of
hardware can pass that would not pass if the frequency were constant
and steady.
It is very easy to implement. Just design your oscillator as a voltage
controlled oscillator and feed a sine wave into it.
Brian Utterback
__
John Hasler wrote:
> Juergen Beisert wrote:
>> Why is port 123 open on eth0?
>
> David Woolley writes:
>> To allow the replies to come back in from the time servers. ntpd
>> sends UDP packets with both source and destination set to 123, not
>> just when talking to peers.
>
> With a stateful fire
and stays gone.
Remember, when NTP is running, nothing, nothing, nothing else should
be adjusting the clock.
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d not assume that the RTC plays no role while the
system is running.
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ce that might make sense to PPL
hackers, but it means nothing to me.
--
blu
It's bad civic hygiene to build technologies that could someday be
used to facilitate a police state. - Bruce Schneier
------
Brian Utterback - Solaris RPE,
ather difficult to puzzle out, which
lead me to file Solaris bug 4514730 "dosynctodr code has structure
similar to game of fizzbin".
Hope that clears it all up.
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Dave Hart wrote:
> distrusted by downstream ntpds. Assuming no orphan-mode
> configuration, it is not clear to me if the stratum is supposed to go
> the maximum and the synchronization (leap bits) to 11, or if they are
> expected to remain at the last values with only the root dispersion to
> ind
this server as
long as it is sane even if there are other better servers". Stale is
not insane.
Why bother with the prefer anyway? What do you think it is doing for you?
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http
Richard B. Gilbert wrote:
> Three is not a good number of servers. If any one of the three fails
> either by not responding or by serving incorrect time you are reduced to
> two servers; back to the worst case. The magic numbers are four, five,
> or seven, protecting you from the failure of one,
al that does not
contain the falseticker that will get 3 votes with all the intervals
involving the falseticker getting at most two votes.
So, if you want protection from a single falseticker, you must have at
least 4 servers.
Brian Utterback
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discipline
will work on a tickless kernel. However, actually figuring out how to
implement it is proving rather intractable. It definitely makes my
brain hurt thinking about it.
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this, then I think that while the high speed slew is
ongoing, the system should refuse to serve NTP requests. I have
thought about whether it would be worthwhile to have a status bit that
when set meant "slewing ongoing, my timestamps are lies!"
Brian Utterback
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ing on the
hopping, it can go very far outside the interval.
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unruh wrote:
>
> A problem with the ntpd protocol.
Not so much the protocol as with the selection algorithm. But point
taken.
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the changes in ntp_proto.c) but
haven't had the time yet.
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so one or
the other server can dominate and which one dominates can change.
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clock at all.
>
> Is it possible to reword that section?
>
> Thanks,
>
--
blu
Always code as if the guy who ends up maintaining your code will be a
violent psychopath who knows where you live. - Martin Golding
--------
On 01/04/11 17:07, Miroslav Lichvar wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 04, 2011 at 04:12:06PM -0500, Brian Utterback wrote:
>> On 01/04/11 13:44, Miroslav Lichvar wrote:
>>> It says and explains that minimum number of servers to detect one
>>> falseticker is four, is that really corr
ecause of bug 1044?
--
blu
Always code as if the guy who ends up maintaining your code will be a
violent psychopath who knows where you live. - Martin Golding
-------|
Brian Utterback - Solaris RPE, Oracle Corporation.
Ph:6
ent reason.
--
blu
Always code as if the guy who ends up maintaining your code will be a
violent psychopath who knows where you live. - Martin Golding
-------|
Brian Utterback - Solaris RPE, Oracle Cor
where you live. - Martin Golding
-------|
Brian Utterback - Solaris RPE, Oracle Corporation.
Ph:603-262-3916, Em:brian.utterb...@oracle.com
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have occurred anyway. But in most cases, you are
going to zero in on the right frequency pretty quickly.
--
blu
Always code as if the guy who ends up maintaining your code will be a
violent psychopath who knows where you live. - Martin Golding
-
On 08/28/11 11:23, David J Taylor wrote:
> "Brian Utterback" wrote in message
> news:4e5a2a83.6030...@oracle.com...
> []
>> According to the FCC info, the problem is due to old GPS units not
>> sufficiently filtering out the adjacent bands that were previousl
st practice of
yesterday is now the shunned practice of today.
--
blu
Always code as if the guy who ends up maintaining your code will be a
violent psychopath who knows where you live. - Martin Golding
-------|
Brian Utterback - Sola
ho ends up maintaining your code will be a
violent psychopath who knows where you live. - Martin Golding
---|
Brian Utterback - Solaris RPE, Oracle Corporation.
Ph:603-262-3916, Em:brian.utterb...@oracle.com
--
blu
Always code as if the guy who ends up maintaining your code will be a
violent psychopath who knows where you live. - Martin Golding
---|
Brian Utterback - Solaris RPE, Oracle Corporation.
Ph:603-262-3916, Em:brian.utterb...@oracle.com
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olent psychopath who knows where you live. - Martin Golding
-------|
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Ph:603-262-3916, Em:brian.utterb...@oracle.com
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qu
. Somebody should get it
repealed.
--
blu
Always code as if the guy who ends up maintaining your code will be a
violent psychopath who knows where you live. - Martin Golding
---|
Brian Utterback - Solaris RPE, Oracle Corporat
On 2/11/2012 5:19 PM, Chuck Swiger wrote:
I have the GPS server line set as prefer
I think he already has.
Brian Utterback
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e you live. - Martin Golding
-------|
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sychopath who knows where you live. - Martin Golding
---|
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