---
Message: 72
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 08:44:51 +1300
From: Rolf Turner
Subject: Re: [R] Inefficiency of SAS Programming
To: Ajay ohri
Cc: "r-help-boun...@r-project.org" ,
"Gerard M. Keogh" , list
, R, Greg Snow
Message-ID: <8993cba0-46a3-41de-abb
On 3/03/2009, at 5:58 PM, Ajay ohri wrote:
for an " inefficient " language , it sure has dominated the predictive
analytics world for 3 plus decades.
I referred once to intellectual jealousy between newton and liebnitz.
i am going ahead and creating the R package called "Anne".
It basically i
-project.org
<mailto:r-help-boun...@r-project.org>
Subject: Re: [R] Inefficiency of SAS Programming
Yes Greg,
but if you're buying SAS they'll throw in IML pretty
cheaply - SAS
gt;>> available for all platforms.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Gregory (Greg) L. Snow Ph.D.
>>> Statistical Data Center
>>> Intermountain Healthcare
>>> greg.s...@imail.org
>>> 801.408.8111
>>>
>>>
>>> -Orig
On Mar 3, 9:58 am, Ajay ohri wrote:
> for an " inefficient " language , it sure has dominated the predictive
> analytics world for 3 plus decades.
> I referred once to intellectual jealousy between newton and liebnitz.
>
> i am going ahead and creating the R package called "Anne".
>
> It basically
Greg Snow
Cc: Frank E Harrell Jr; R list; r-help-boun...@r-project.org
Subject: Re: [R] Inefficiency of SAS Programming
Yes Greg,
but if you're buying SAS they'll throw in IML pretty cheaply - SAS
think
it's only for a few nerds out there who wan to do funny stuff.
G
2009/3/3 Jim Lemon :
> Ajay ohri wrote:
>>
>> for an " inefficient " language , it sure has dominated the predictive
>> analytics world for 3 plus decades.
>> I referred once to intellectual jealousy between newton and liebnitz.
>>
>> i am going ahead and creating the R package called "Anne".
>>
>
no market for R packages exists in true economic sense
as there is demand and supply and utility but no price
Ajay
Did Tom Sawyer create the first collaborative project ever ( to paint the
fence ?)
On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 4:24 PM, Jim Lemon wrote:
> Ajay ohri wrote:
>
>> for an " inefficient
>> Intermountain Healthcare
>> greg.s...@imail.org
>> 801.408.8111
>>
>>
>> > -Original Message-
>> > From: Gerard M. Keogh [mailto:gmke...@justice.ie]
>> > Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 3:22 AM
>> > To: Greg Snow
>> >
Ajay ohri wrote:
for an " inefficient " language , it sure has dominated the predictive
analytics world for 3 plus decades.
I referred once to intellectual jealousy between newton and liebnitz.
i am going ahead and creating the R package called "Anne".
If you want to market this, Ajay, I'd s
, R
list
Subject
Re: [R]
Healthcare
> greg.s...@imail.org
> 801.408.8111
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Gerard M. Keogh [mailto:gmke...@justice.ie]
> > Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 3:22 AM
> > To: Greg Snow
> > Cc: Frank E Harrell Jr; R list; r-help-boun...@r-project.org
>
o:gmke...@justice.ie]
> Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 3:22 AM
> To: Greg Snow
> Cc: Frank E Harrell Jr; R list; r-help-boun...@r-project.org
> Subject: Re: [R] Inefficiency of SAS Programming
>
> Yes Greg,
>
> but if you're buying SAS they'll throw in IML pretty cheaply -
If you want to write Sweave reports you have to learn latex and
R does not hide that from you.
This situation is somewhat better for tcltk, especially if you
use one of the higher level wrapper packages that use it, but for
serious work directly with it you need tcl/tk materials.
On Mon, Mar 2, 2
On 3/2/2009 6:57 AM, Thomas Levine wrote:
R depends on all of those things to run, but you only have to use those
programs through R. The software depends on these other tools, but the human
doesn't have to switch interfaces.
In fact, it doesn't even depend on them to run. Most Windows users
R depends on all of those things to run, but you only have to use those
programs through R. The software depends on these other tools, but the human
doesn't have to switch interfaces.
Tom!
On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 9:22 PM, Gabor Grothendieck wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 8:53 AM, Frank E Harr
list
Subject
Re: [R] Inefficiency of SAS
On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 8:53 AM, Frank E Harrell Jr
wrote:
> Ajay ohri wrote:
>>
>> Sometimes for the sake of simplicity, SAS coding is created like that. One
>> can use the concatenate function and drag and drop in an simple excel sheet
>> for creating elaborate SAS code like the one mentioned an
John Sorkin wrote:
Frank,
A programming language's efficience is a function of several items, including what you are trying to program. Without using SAS proc IML, I have found that it is more efficient to code algorithms (e.g. a least squares linear regression) using R than SAS; we all know that
y 27, 2009 7:19 AM
> To: Frank E Harrell Jr
> Cc: r-help-boun...@r-project.org; R list
> Subject: Re: [R] Inefficiency of SAS Programming
>
> Yes Frank, I accept your point but nevertheless IML is the proper place
> for
> matrix work in SAS - mixing macro-level logic and comput
Also because no one wants to put their neck out on a chopping block to
suggest R without technical support and the like. If you use SAS,
there's a cascade of blame available, but it's not immediately
available for R.
On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 10:36 AM, Bryan wrote:
> My apologies, this obviously d
My apologies, this obviously doubles as my "for registration purposes"
account and so I don't often send from it - I was not intentionally being so
secretive : )
At any rate, I completely agree, but of course it's a reciprocal
relationship. The software is written in SAS because that's what the
o
Frank,
A programming language's efficience is a function of several items, including
what you are trying to program. Without using SAS proc IML, I have found that
it is more efficient to code algorithms (e.g. a least squares linear
regression) using R than SAS; we all know that matrix notation l
A further example of software pricing dynamics
is the complete lack of awareness of WPS , a UK based software which is
basically a base SAS clone with all the features of SAS ( coding read ,write
and data read /write) and priced only at 660$ per desktop and 1400$ for
server licenses ..very very c
John Sorkin wrote:
Terry's remarks (see below) are well received however, I take issue with one part of his comments.
As a long time programmer (in both "statistical" programming languages and
"traditional" programming languages), I miss the ability to write native-languages in R.
While macros
spam me wrote:
I've actually used AHRQ's software to create Inpatient Quality Indicator
reports. I can confirm pretty much what we already know; it is inefficient.
Running on about 1.8 - 2 million cases, it would take just about a whole day
to run the entire process from start to finish. That i
Terry's remarks (see below) are well received however, I take issue with one
part of his comments. As a long time programmer (in both "statistical"
programming languages and "traditional" programming languages), I miss the
ability to write native-languages in R. While macros can make for difficu
Terry Therneau wrote:
Three comments
I actually think you can write worse code in R than in SAS: more tools = more
scope for innovatively bad ideas. The ability to write bad code should not damm
a language.
I found almost all of the "improvements" to the multi-line SAS recode to be
re
Three comments
I actually think you can write worse code in R than in SAS: more tools = more
scope for innovatively bad ideas. The ability to write bad code should not
damm
a language.
I found almost all of the "improvements" to the multi-line SAS recode to be
regressions, both the SAS
Ajay ohri wrote:
Immersion therapy can be done at a later stage after the
newly baptized R corporate user is happy with the fact that he can do
most of his legacy code in R easily now .
I have treading water in the immersion for over a year now.
Most SAS consultants and corporate users ar
Immersion therapy can be done at a later stage after the newly
baptized R corporate
user is happy with the fact that he can do most of his legacy code in R
easily now .
I have treading water in the immersion for over a year now.
Most SAS consultants and corporate users are eager to try out R ..
I had enrolled in a statistics course this semester, but after the
first class, I dropped it because it uses SAS. This thread makes me
quite glad.
Tom!
On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 8:48 AM, Frank E Harrell Jr
wrote:
> Wensui Liu wrote:
>>
>> Thanks for pointing me to the SAS code, Dr Harrell
>> After
I've actually used AHRQ's software to create Inpatient Quality Indicator
reports. I can confirm pretty much what we already know; it is inefficient.
Running on about 1.8 - 2 million cases, it would take just about a whole day
to run the entire process from start to finish. That isn't all processi
on 02/27/2009 07:57 AM Frank E Harrell Jr wrote:
> Ajay ohri wrote:
>>
>> I would like to know if we can create a package in which r functions
>> are renamed closer to sas language.doing so will help people familiar
>> to SAS to straight away take to R for their work,thus decreasing the
>> threshol
nk E Harrell
> Jr
>bilt.edu> R list
> Sent by:
cc
> r-help-boun...@r-
> project.org
Subject
>[R] Inefficiency of SAS
Programming
>
>
Ajay ohri wrote:
I would like to know if we can create a package in which r functions are
renamed closer to sas language.doing so will help people familiar to SAS
to straight away take to R for their work,thus decreasing the threshold
for acceptance - and then get into deeper understanding la
r-help-boun...@r-
project.org Subject
[R] Inefficiency of SAS Programming
Ajay ohri wrote:
Sometimes for the sake of simplicity, SAS coding is created like that.
One can use the concatenate function and drag and drop in an simple
excel sheet for creating elaborate SAS code like the one mentioned and
without any time at all.
A system that requires Excel for its succ
Wensui Liu wrote:
Thanks for pointing me to the SAS code, Dr Harrell
After reading codes, I have to say that the inefficiency is not
related to SAS language itself but the SAS programmer. An experienced
SAS programmer won't use much of hard-coding, very adhoc and difficult
to maintain.
I agree wi
I would like to know if we can create a package in which r functions are
renamed closer to sas language.doing so will help people familiar to SAS to
straight away take to R for their work,thus decreasing the threshold for
acceptance - and then get into deeper understanding later.
since it is a pack
2009/2/27 Peter Dalgaard :
> Presumably, something like
>
> IF &N. = 1 THEN SUB_N = 1;
> ELSE IF &N. < 5 THEN SUB_N = &N.-1;
> ELSE IF &N. < 16 THEN SUB_N = &N.-2;
> ELSE SUB_N = &N.-3;
>
> would work, provided that 2, 5, 16 are impossible values. Problem is that it
> actually mak
r-help-boun...@r-
project.org Subject
[R] Inefficiency of SAS Programming
How would this agency be convinced of adopting R code also
how would these things work.
Regards,
Ajay
www.decisionstats.com
On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 4:27 AM, Frank E Harrell Jr <
f.harr...@vanderbilt.edu> wrote:
> If anyone wants to see a prime example of how inefficient it is to program
>
Sometimes for the sake of simplicity, SAS coding is created like that. One
can use the concatenate function and drag and drop in an simple excel sheet
for creating elaborate SAS code like the one mentioned and without any time
at all.
There are multiple ways to do this in SAS , much better and simi
Thanks for pointing me to the SAS code, Dr Harrell
After reading codes, I have to say that the inefficiency is not
related to SAS language itself but the SAS programmer. An experienced
SAS programmer won't use much of hard-coding, very adhoc and difficult
to maintain.
I agree with you that in the S
On 26 Feb 2009 at 23:47, Barry Rowlingson wrote:
> 2009/2/26 Frank E Harrell Jr :
> > If anyone wants to see a prime example of how inefficient it is to program
> > in SAS, take a look at the SAS programs provided by the US Agency for
> > Healthcare Research and Quality for risk adjusting and repo
Barry Rowlingson wrote:
2009/2/26 Frank E Harrell Jr :
If anyone wants to see a prime example of how inefficient it is to program
in SAS, take a look at the SAS programs provided by the US Agency for
Healthcare Research and Quality for risk adjusting and reporting for
hospital outcomes at http:/
2009/2/26 Frank E Harrell Jr :
> If anyone wants to see a prime example of how inefficient it is to program
> in SAS, take a look at the SAS programs provided by the US Agency for
> Healthcare Research and Quality for risk adjusting and reporting for
> hospital outcomes at http://www.qualityindicat
Frank,
I couldn't locate the program you mentioned. doyou mind being more
specific? could you please point me to the file? i am just curious.
thanks.
On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 5:57 PM, Frank E Harrell Jr
wrote:
> If anyone wants to see a prime example of how inefficient it is to program
> in SAS, t
If anyone wants to see a prime example of how inefficient it is to
program in SAS, take a look at the SAS programs provided by the US
Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality for risk adjusting and
reporting for hospital outcomes at
http://www.qualityindicators.ahrq.gov/software.htm . The PS
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