on 01/10/2009 01:50 PM Kingsford Jones wrote:
> The reactions to the NYT article have certainly made for some
> interesting reading.
>
> Here are some of the links:
>
> http://overdetermined.net/site/content/new-york-times-article-r
>
> http://jackman.stanford.edu/blog/?p=1053
>
> http://ggorja
;
> Cheers to all,
> Bert Gunter
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: r-help-boun...@r-project.org [mailto:r-help-boun...@r-project.org] On
> Behalf Of Barry Rowlingson
> Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 10:32 AM
> To: Tony Breyal
> C
Bert Gunter [Sat, Jan 10, 2009 at 08:31:03PM CET]:
[...]
> Perhaps an argument is that certain code might not get written at all if it
> were not proprietary. Device drivers might be an example.
Device drivers are not an example. Linux is ubiquitous _despite_ device
manufacturers being secretiv
The reactions to the NYT article have certainly made for some
interesting reading.
Here are some of the links:
http://overdetermined.net/site/content/new-york-times-article-r
http://jackman.stanford.edu/blog/?p=1053
http://ggorjan.blogspot.com/2009/01/new-york-times-on-r.html
several posts on
t" choices.
Cheers to all,
Bert Gunter
-Original Message-
From: r-help-boun...@r-project.org [mailto:r-help-boun...@r-project.org] On
Behalf Of Barry Rowlingson
Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 10:32 AM
To: Tony Breyal
Cc: r-help@r-project.org
Subject: Re: [R] R in the NY T
more on the reasons R is bad for you
http://www.decisionstats.com/2009/01/top-ten-rrreasons-r-is-bad-for-you/
On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 12:01 AM, Barry Rowlingson <
b.rowling...@lancaster.ac.uk> wrote:
> 2009/1/10 Tony Breyal :
>
> > [SAS marketroid quote]
> > "In fact, SAS values open-source soft
2009/1/10 Tony Breyal :
> [SAS marketroid quote]
> "In fact, SAS values open-source software."
But clearly not enough to open-source SAS itself. It would seem that
SAS values _other_people's_ open source.
If SAS was open source and free, then SAS would collect on all the
other things "Customer
On Sat, Jan 10, 2009 at 8:11 AM, Tony Breyal wrote:
> "We have customers who build engines for aircraft. I am happy they are
> not using freeware when I get on a jet."
>
> The lady who made this comment, Anne H. Milley, director of technology
> product marketing at SAS, has written a response to t
“We have customers who build engines for aircraft. I am happy they are
not using freeware when I get on a jet.”
The lady who made this comment, Anne H. Milley, director of technology
product marketing at SAS, has written a response to try and clarify
what she meant (funilly enough, i got this link
On Thu, 2009-01-08 at 13:52 -0600, Marc Schwartz wrote:
> Reading the posts on SAS-L since yesterday via Google RSS, where the
> NYT
> article was also posted, some have noted that SAS itself offers online
> support forums (http://support.sas.com/forums/index.jspa). From a
> quick
> review, it look
on 01/08/2009 01:12 PM Andrew Choens wrote:
> On Thu, 2009-01-08 at 10:42 -0600, Stas Kolenikov wrote:
>> A really good measure for R will be the total # of the downloads of
>> r-base for all platforms from all CRAN mirrors (and I would expect
>> that # can be found from the servers' logs). Given t
-project.org
Subject: Re: [R] R in the NY Times
Yes I think R as a package can really learn from SAS and SPSS in making
GUI more user friendly , even at the risk of dumbing down some
complexity..
also as a consultant I know that selling software requires a lot of
marketing follow ups..which is why R
e developed in R or S+.
>
> Regards,
> Lou Bajuk-Yorgan
> Sr. Director, Product Management
> TIBCO Spotfire Division
> lba...@tibco.com
>
> -Original Message-
> From: r-help-boun...@r-project.org [mailto:r-help-boun...@r-project.org]
> On Behalf Of Douglas Bates
On Thu, 2009-01-08 at 10:42 -0600, Stas Kolenikov wrote:
> A really good measure for R will be the total # of the downloads of
> r-base for all platforms from all CRAN mirrors (and I would expect
> that # can be found from the servers' logs).
Hello,
You obviate here that many of us are downloadi
f Douglas Bates
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 12:58 PM
To: marc_schwa...@comcast.net
Cc: r-help@r-project.org
Subject: Re: [R] R in the NY Times
On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 8:50 AM, Marc Schwartz
wrote:
> on 01/07/2009 08:44 AM Kevin E. Thorpe wrote:
>> Zaslavsky, Alan M. wrote:
>>&g
On Thu, 2009-01-08 at 10:42 -0600, Stas Kolenikov wrote:
> A really good measure for R will be the total # of the downloads of
> r-base for all platforms from all CRAN mirrors (and I would expect
> that # can be found from the servers' logs). Given that it is so easy
> to download everything nice a
On 1/7/09, Gabor Grothendieck wrote:
> Here is the same number of messages/posts data
> for each of S, SAS, R:
> - reworked into a 3 column ts class time series
> - with Jan 2009 removed since its not complete
> - leading and trailing NA rows removed
My software of choice is Stata, so here ar
t; To: r-help@r-project.org
> Subject: Re: [R] R in the NY Times
>
> More commentary on Slashdot:
>
> http://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/01/07/2316227
>
> __
> R-help@r-project.org mailing list
> https://stat.ethz.ch/ma
More commentary on Slashdot:
http://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/01/07/2316227
__
R-help@r-project.org mailing list
https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
a
on 01/07/2009 09:47 PM Gabor Grothendieck wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 10:26 PM, Dirk Eddelbuettel wrote:
>> On 7 January 2009 at 18:24, Gabor Grothendieck wrote:
>> | By running the code below we see that the:
>> | - sum of the three seems to be rising at a constant rate
>> | - S is declining
On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 10:26 PM, Dirk Eddelbuettel wrote:
>
> On 7 January 2009 at 18:24, Gabor Grothendieck wrote:
> | By running the code below we see that the:
> | - sum of the three seems to be rising at a constant rate
> | - S is declining
> | - SAS and R are rising
> | - R is rising the fast
On 7 January 2009 at 18:24, Gabor Grothendieck wrote:
| By running the code below we see that the:
| - sum of the three seems to be rising at a constant rate
| - S is declining
| - SAS and R are rising
| - R is rising the fastest through its completed its phase
| of highest growth which ended arou
Note that the mts object I posted already had Jan 2009 removed and also
had the NA rows removed.
On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 9:58 PM, hadley wickham wrote:
>> You might want to remove the 2009 data from each of the three lists
>> given that the January data is not yet complete.
>>
>> The result of inc
> You might want to remove the 2009 data from each of the three lists
> given that the January data is not yet complete.
>
> The result of including the January 2009 data in your plots is that the
> growth trajectory for the smoothed curves for SAS-L and R-Help appear to
> be leveling or even decli
> Here's a couple of similar plots created with ggplot2. I chose to
> turn the data into a data frame with an explicit date column. Using a
> log scale somewhat stabilises the variability.
>
> ## SAS-L traffic
> sas <- structure(list(Jan = c(NA, 546L, 548L, 853L, 1007L, 894L, 514L,
> 1720L, 1826
I did try the log version as well prior to posting but although
it would seem to exaggerate the difference to me the insights
from plotting the raw data with loess (i.e. constancy of the total, piecewise
constant growth of R) come through best.
On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 6:53 PM, Spencer Graves
wrote
Thanks, Gabor, Marc, Max:
The image is even more striking (and more accurately reflects
reality, I believe) if you add "log='y'" to "ts.plot".
Best Wishes,
Spencer
Gabor Grothendieck wrote:
Here is the same number of messages/posts data
for each of S, SAS, R:
- reworked into
Here's a couple of similar plots created with ggplot2. I chose to
turn the data into a data frame with an explicit date column. Using a
log scale somewhat stabilises the variability.
## SAS-L traffic
sas <- structure(list(Jan = c(NA, 546L, 548L, 853L, 1007L, 894L, 514L,
1720L, 1826L, 1941L, 1832
Here is the same number of messages/posts data
for each of S, SAS, R:
- reworked into a 3 column ts class time series
- with Jan 2009 removed since its not complete
- leading and trailing NA rows removed
At end we plot the raw data as well as the time
series of totals and show loess smooths for ea
On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 8:50 AM, Marc Schwartz wrote:
> on 01/07/2009 08:44 AM Kevin E. Thorpe wrote:
>> Zaslavsky, Alan M. wrote:
>>> This article is accompanied by nice pictures of Robert and Ross.
>>>
>>> Data Analysts Captivated by Power of R
>>> http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/07/technology/bus
I pointed a friend of mine toward the article, to which he replied:
"I hope that they run SAS on Solaris too, god only knows how tainted the
syscalls are in that linux freeware."
Of course, now Solaris is 'freeware', too, so I suppose that according to
SAS, running SAS on Windows is the best way
Wacek,
One would hope that if someone were to use software to "build engines
for aircraft", that said person would sufficiently test the software to
have confidence in it, whether it had a "Warranty" or not — at least
that's my mode of operation…
Cheers!
Tom
Wacek Kusnierczyk wrote:
Kevin
On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 3:19 PM, Spencer Graves wrote:
> What kind of warranty does SAS offer? I haven't read their EULA recently,
> but if an airplane fell out of the sky because of a bug in SAS code, I'd be
> surprised if SAS was eager to pay damages!
>
> Spencer
>
>
And that's an issue that a
On 1/7/2009 3:03 PM, Wacek Kusnierczyk wrote:
Kevin E. Thorpe wrote:
Zaslavsky, Alan M. wrote:
SAS says it has noticed R’s rising popularity at universities,
despite educational discounts on its own software, but it dismisses
the technology as being of interest to a limited set of people
workin
What kind of warranty does SAS offer? I haven't read their EULA
recently, but if an airplane fell out of the sky because of a bug in SAS
code, I'd be surprised if SAS was eager to pay damages!
Spencer
Wacek Kusnierczyk wrote:
Kevin E. Thorpe wrote:
Zaslavsky, Alan M. wrote:
SAS say
on 01/07/2009 09:29 AM Max Kuhn wrote:
>> "You can look on the SAS message boards and see there is a proportional
>> downturn in traffic."
>
> I think that I actually made this statement about both the SAS and
> Splus traffic...
>
> I wasn't really trying to be critical of SAS. I was trying to g
Kevin E. Thorpe wrote:
> Zaslavsky, Alan M. wrote:
>> SAS says it has noticed R’s rising popularity at universities,
>> despite educational discounts on its own software, but it dismisses
>> the technology as being of interest to a limited set of people
>> working on very hard tasks.
>>
>> “I think
Google Alerts are great, but unfortuantly the brevity of R's name is
the main problem i think.
though, thinking about it, i suppose if one could work out the 'best'
key words to use, it might be possible to not get too many miss-
classified results, e.g.,
http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&
2009/1/7 Darin A. England :
> Unfortunately, that type of FUD issued by the SAS marketing person still
> works. I see it at my employer (a large healthcare company.)
I see it here, at a university. Quote: "We couldn't possibly do our
analysis using some software we've just downloaded from a web
On 07-Jan-09 18:03:19, Erik Iverson wrote:
> I pointed a friend of mine toward the article, to which he replied:
>
> "I hope that they run SAS on Solaris too, god only knows how tainted
> the syscalls are in that linux freeware."
>
> Of course, now Solaris is 'freeware', too, so I suppose that a
you can use google alerts to track media coverage of R using some keywords
regards,
ajay
On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 9:52 PM, David M Smith <
da...@revolution-computing.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 6:39 AM, Tony Breyal
> wrote:
> > Thank you for posting this, I found it a very enjoyable r
> Unfortunately, that type of FUD issued by the SAS marketing person still
> works. I see it at my employer (a large healthcare company.) It's a
> battle to change a culture, but ironically the recession helps.
> People are now taking notice of the obscene licensing fees for SAS.
>
> Darin
I agr
I would also point out that the use of the term "freeware" as opposed to
"FOSS" by the SAS rep, comes off as being unprofessional and
deliberately condescending...
The author of the article, to his credit, was pretty consistent in using
open source terminology.
Regards,
Marc
on 01/07/2009 10:26
I believe the SAS person shot themselves in the foot more in more ways than
one. In my mind, the reason you would pay, as Frank said, for
> non-peer-reviewed software with hidden implementations of analytic
> methods that cannot be reproduced by others
Would be so that you can sue them later wh
On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 6:39 AM, Tony Breyal wrote:
> Thank you for posting this, I found it a very enjoyable read!
>
> I am curious, is there an archive of 'R in the Media' or 'R in the
> Press' articles somewhere? It would be interesting to see how the
> perception of R has changed/evolved over t
> "You can look on the SAS message boards and see there is a proportional
> downturn in traffic."
I think that I actually made this statement about both the SAS and
Splus traffic...
I wasn't really trying to be critical of SAS. I was trying to get
across that SAS focused their resources on featu
Jeffrey J. Hallman wrote:
> The article quotes John Chambers, but it doesn't mention that R started out as
> an implementation of the S language. I don't suppose Insightful is too happy
> about that.
You mean Tibco...
The statement that S "failed to generate broad interest" is also a bit
mislead
On Wed, Jan 07, 2009 at 08:00:28AM -0600, Frank E Harrell Jr wrote:
> This is great to see. It's interesting that SAS Institute feels that
> non-peer-reviewed software with hidden implementations of analytic
> methods that cannot be reproduced by others should be trusted when
> building aircraf
On 1/7/2009 9:44 AM, Kevin E. Thorpe wrote:
Zaslavsky, Alan M. wrote:
This article is accompanied by nice pictures of Robert and Ross.
Data Analysts Captivated by Power of R
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/07/technology/business-computing/07program.html
January 7, 2009 Data Analysts Captivat
The article quotes John Chambers, but it doesn't mention that R started out as
an implementation of the S language. I don't suppose Insightful is too happy
about that.
The SAS spokesman quoted in the article is clearly whistling past the graveyard.
--
Jeff
__
Zaslavsky, Alan M. wrote:
This article is accompanied by nice pictures of Robert and Ross.
Data Analysts Captivated by Power of R
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/07/technology/business-computing/07program.html
Thanks for the heads up. The R morale is going through the roof!
I've given three
Thank you for posting this, I found it a very enjoyable read!
I am curious, is there an archive of 'R in the Media' or 'R in the
Press' articles somewhere? It would be interesting to see how the
perception of R has changed/evolved over time relative to other
packages.
Cheers,
Tony Breyal
On 7 J
on 01/07/2009 08:44 AM Kevin E. Thorpe wrote:
> Zaslavsky, Alan M. wrote:
>> This article is accompanied by nice pictures of Robert and Ross.
>>
>> Data Analysts Captivated by Power of R
>> http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/07/technology/business-computing/07program.html
>>
>>
>>
>> January 7, 2009 Da
ry much R team.
>
>
> - Original Message - From: "Frank E Harrell Jr" <
> f.harr...@vanderbilt.edu>
> To: "Bill Pikounis"
> Cc:
> Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 2:25 PM
> Subject: Re: [R] R in the NY Times
>
>
>
> Bill Pikoun
Zaslavsky, Alan M. wrote:
This article is accompanied by nice pictures of Robert and Ross.
Data Analysts Captivated by Power of R
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/07/technology/business-computing/07program.html
January 7, 2009 Data Analysts Captivated by R’s Power By ASHLEE VANCE
SAS says it
: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 2:25 PM
Subject: Re: [R] R in the NY Times
Bill Pikounis wrote:
Pardon my exuberance, but this is simply awesome. What a treat to find
on the front web page of the NY Times this morning under Technology. I
think the article is very well written by the author, and I t
Bill Pikounis wrote:
Pardon my exuberance, but this is simply awesome. What a treat to find
on the front web page of the NY Times this morning under Technology. I
think the article is very well written by the author, and I think it
captures top highlights of why the software and community are so
This is great to see. It's interesting that SAS Institute feels that
non-peer-reviewed software with hidden implementations of analytic
methods that cannot be reproduced by others should be trusted when
building aircraft engines.
Frank
Zaslavsky, Alan M. wrote:
This article is accompanied
Pardon my exuberance, but this is simply awesome. What a treat to find
on the front web page of the NY Times this morning under Technology. I
think the article is very well written by the author, and I think it
captures top highlights of why the software and community are so
special.
Continued hig
This article is accompanied by nice pictures of Robert and Ross.
Data Analysts Captivated by Power of R
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/07/technology/business-computing/07program.html
January 7, 2009
Data Analysts Captivated by R’s Power
By ASHLEE VANCE
To some people R is just the 18th letter
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