Me thinks I missed it or you be making up stuff.
Usually on this site when people disagree they avoid getting
personal. Me thinks you missed that.
Do a search on this site. When the Roadeo was first announced, Grant
himself posted here and said specifically it was a bike he probably
would not
If Grant built his own frames in house, is he required to pay Union
wages? He ought to start a school and teach smart energetic kids how
to weld and he could make his own steel lugged frames in Walnut
Creek...Sure the good ones would eventually leave and start their
own companies or go on to
There's a simple matter of finite capital, as well. Riv is always struggling
with lack of capital when trying to bring products to market. I'd imagine they
have to be pretty selective about what sorts of products they'll focus on, and
I don't see a budget frame that fails to meet their
I am both impressed and dismayed with the degree of commitment to a
single point of view. Whatever works works. Thinking there was a
time when Grant thought he'd never leave Japan for Taiwan...and that
time came. Granted, he is still making gorgeous lugged frames, now
with cheaper labor. If
On Fri, 2009-12-11 at 07:14 -0800, eflayer wrote:
I am both impressed and dismayed with the degree of commitment to a
single point of view. Whatever works works. Thinking there was a
time when Grant thought he'd never leave Japan for Taiwan...and that
time came. Granted, he is still making
On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 9:14 AM, eflayer eddie.fla...@att.net wrote:
I am both impressed and dismayed with the degree of commitment to a
single point of view. Whatever works works. Thinking there was a
time when Grant thought he'd never leave Japan for Taiwan...and that
time came. Granted,
I think of Taiwan as going through a similar process to what Japan
went through in the 80's in terms of bicycle production. Right now
they are the seat of bicycle manufacture in the world. That's not
surprising as the current exchange from Taiwan Dollars to U.S. Dollars
is something like
Steve, This is not about me. It is an idea. Please don't take it as
an attack on everything you and Riv stand for. Just an idea.
Companies can change mission and values if there is a good reason to
do so. If part of the mission was to give more people a chance to
ride a Grant designed
Commitment to core values is just good business sense.
This comes down to branding. The Rivendell brand is synonymous with
lugged steel bikes. Introducing a TIG bike would create brand drift
away from that core value, and that is a bad thing.
They would have to offer TIG frames under a separate
On Fri, 2009-12-11 at 07:44 -0800, eflayer wrote:
Steve, This is not about me. It is an idea. Please don't take it as
an attack on everything you and Riv stand for. Just an idea.
I don't take it as an attack -- certainly not an attack on anything I
stand for. If adopted, it is an idea that
Bill Connell wrote, in part:
...I applaud Grant's stubborn aesthetic sense; he has a cohesive vision
for the company, and that strong visual identity is a huge asset...
Yeah, I think they'd stand to lose more than they gain if they wander too far
from that vision. I recall in an early
Grant is capable of changing though, isn't he. I think you are all
correct and he probably won't consider tig. But as I recall he both
never used to mention the weight of bikes, framesets and now look at
how he is discussing/selling the lightness of Roadeo. I know the
Roadeo fits the lugged
on 12/11/09 7:14 AM, eflayer at eddie.fla...@att.net wrote:
I am both impressed and dismayed with the degree of commitment to a
single point of view. Whatever works works. Thinking there was a
time when Grant thought he'd never leave Japan for Taiwan...and that
time came. Granted, he is
on 12/11/09 8:02 AM, eflayer at eddie.fla...@att.net wrote:
Grant is capable of changing though, isn't he. I think you are all
correct and he probably won't consider tig. But as I recall he both
never used to mention the weight of bikes, framesets and now look at
how he is
Grant wrote that his bikes were affordable by people with a job and bicycle
priorities. His goal was never to build bikes at every price point. The moves
from Waterford (and back again in a limited way) to Toyo to Maxway (I think
that is his Taiwanese supplier. They certainly supply many big
On Fri, 2009-12-11 at 08:02 -0800, CycloFiend wrote:
I think the inherent flaw is the idea of a gorgeous tig-welded bicycle
frame. Personally, I don't see anything wrong with that method of frame
building, but they've never struck me as particularly good looking.
I have a titanium Santana
Steve, well said. -- I am typing now in tiny tiny
print...said very quietly in a whisper...Grant could do it best.
On Dec 11, 8:29 am, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote:
On Fri, 2009-12-11 at 08:02 -0800, CycloFiend wrote:
I think the inherent flaw is the idea of a gorgeous
On Fri, 2009-12-11 at 08:35 -0800, eflayer wrote:
Steve, well said. -- I am typing now in tiny tiny
print...said very quietly in a whisper...Grant could do it best.
In an equally small whisper, when it comes to TIG welded bikes and their
design, based on the current track record
on 12/11/09 8:29 AM, Steve Palincsar at palin...@his.com wrote:
On Fri, 2009-12-11 at 08:02 -0800, CycloFiend wrote:
I think the inherent flaw is the idea of a gorgeous tig-welded bicycle
frame. Personally, I don't see anything wrong with that method of frame
building, but they've never
on 12/11/09 8:29 AM, Steve Palincsar at palin...@his.com wrote:
On Fri, 2009-12-11 at 08:02 -0800, CycloFiend wrote:
I think the inherent flaw is the idea of a gorgeous tig-welded bicycle
frame. Personally, I don't see anything wrong with that method of frame
building, but they've never
Grant is capable of changing though, isn't he. I think you are all
correct and he probably won't consider tig.
You need to throw father time in the mix. Grant has gone on record
saying Riv ends when he retires. Grant is in his mid-50s. It seems
counterintuitive to work a complete reversal
show me a fine tigged bike with Riv geo, Riv aesthetics, threaded
fork, tallish headtube, lightweight tubing, cantis, and rack
brazeons...in the $700 price range. oh yeah, i've come to appreciate
a kickstand mounting plate too.
On Dec 11, 9:06 am, JoelMatthews joelmatth...@mac.com wrote:
Grant
this is it from Fuji. I just think Grant could do it better as a
frameset with some Riv tweaks:
http://www.fujibikes.com/LifeStyle/ClassicSeries/Touring.aspx
On Dec 11, 9:13 am, eflayer eddie.fla...@att.net wrote:
show me a fine tigged bike with Riv geo, Riv aesthetics, threaded
fork, tallish
On Fri, 2009-12-11 at 08:58 -0800, CycloFiend wrote:
The titanium Ibis frames were in that realm. I don't know if the different
nature of ti welding processes lends itself to that, or the knowledge that
there won't be paint covering the work. Or that they only let the
uber-skilled
show me a fine tigged bike with Riv geo, Riv aesthetics, threaded
fork, tallish headtube, lightweight tubing, cantis, and rack
brazeons...in the $700 price range. oh yeah, i've come to appreciate
a kickstand mounting plate too.
Aesthetics is another way of saying putting its name on the
Is RBW considered an Upscale brand? Do a certain number of people buy
a RBW bicycle because it is widely perceived as expensive/exotic/
exclusive? Would a low-cost TIG'ed RBW frameset/bicycle sell well
enough in a competitive marketplace to justify alienation of the past/
present/future customers
Is RBW considered an Upscale brand? Do a certain number of people buy
a RBW bicycle because it is widely perceived as expensive/exotic/
exclusive? Would a low-cost TIG'ed RBW frameset/bicycle sell well
enough in a competitive marketplace to justify alienation of the past/
present/future
just joking a bit...put if you put any more spacers under that
threadless headset you could climb up on those bars and then jump on
the roof of that house. to each their own on aesthetics.
If that were really an issue, Surly could easily adopt one of the
several threadless stems custom
nobody is doing it. that is my whole point...whether or not you think
Riv shouldnobody is.
On Dec 11, 10:04 am, JoelMatthews joelmatth...@mac.com wrote:
just joking a bit...put if you put any more spacers under that
threadless headset you could climb up on those bars and then jump on
Threaded stems and headsets are pretty much obsolete on new-production
bikes, and the number of threaded stem/headset options is small and
getting smaller. There are a few holdouts, like Riv and some custom
shops, but I think even they see the writing on the wall (Legolas was
threadless, and
nobody is doing it. that is my whole point...whether or not you think
Riv shouldnobody is.
The Bruce Gordon BLT is a loaded tourer, takes a one inch threaded
stem (and Bruce will sell you a beautiful custom made matching quil to
boot) has every sort of braze on you could hope for, rides
On Fri, 2009-12-11 at 11:03 -0800, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery wrote:
Threaded stems and headsets are pretty much obsolete on new-production
bikes, and the number of threaded stem/headset options is small and
getting smaller. There are a few holdouts, like Riv and some custom
shops, but I
There are still millions upon millions of bikes out there with
threaded headsets, many of them owned by people of limited means who
will need to fix them rather than buy a new bike. Ditto for bikes with
freewheels. That's why it's still possible to buy freewheels in this
age of cassettes
regardless of steer-tube diameter, I like having a quill setup so you
can raise and lower the bars really quickly and easily, and with
'infinite' adjustment. So I hope threaded/quill isn't going
anywhere.
On Dec 11, 2:19 pm, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote:
On Fri, 2009-12-11 at 11:03
Well, having a special run of parts made is more difficult than using
something that is already available with probably 100 variants from
which to choose. And if the modern, widely available version is
demonstrably an improvement over the antiquated version that requires
a special production run,
Well, having a special run of parts made is more difficult than using
something that is already available with probably 100 variants from
which to choose. And if the modern, widely available version is
demonstrably an improvement over the antiquated version that requires
a special production run,
Headtubes on BLT and BLTaiwans are short...
But it does look as if little old BG is sourcing his own upjutting
Salsa (old) quill stems.
Bet the BLTaiwans weigh a ton. Don't want a tank. Want an all around
700c. Let's call it a tigged Roadeo with Vbrakes, powder and a
headbadge.
On Dec 11,
ps, street bike with rear rack brazeons so I can carry my lunch in
stuff in a trunk bag, and put on bigger tires if I want to...but
lightweight and lively...as you would say.
On Dec 11, 11:38 am, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote:
On Fri, 2009-12-11 at 11:35 -0800, eflayer wrote:
On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 1:35 PM, eflayer eddie.fla...@att.net wrote:
Headtubes on BLT and BLTaiwans are short...
But it does look as if little old BG is sourcing his own upjutting
Salsa (old) quill stems.
Bet the BLTaiwans weigh a ton. Don't want a tank. Want an all around
700c. Let's
-Original Message-
From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
[mailto:rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of eflayer
Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 11:36 AM
To: RBW Owners Bunch
Subject: [RBW] Re: Would it be against the law - a tigged Rivendell?
Headtubes on BLT and BLTaiwans
On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 2:44 PM, Bill Connell bconn...@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 1:35 PM, eflayer eddie.fla...@att.net wrote:
Headtubes on BLT and BLTaiwans are short...
But it does look as if little old BG is sourcing his own upjutting
Salsa (old) quill stems.
Bet the
On Fri, 2009-12-11 at 11:40 -0800, eflayer wrote:
ps, street bike with rear rack brazeons so I can carry my lunch in
stuff in a trunk bag, and put on bigger tires if I want to...but
lightweight and lively...as you would say.
I think you already own it, your Fuji touring.
--
You
Headtubes on BLT and BLTaiwans are short...
Geometry is close to the Hilborne.
But it does look as if little old BG is sourcing his own upjutting
Salsa (old) quill stems.
Bruce has been making quill stems long before there was a Salsa. His
is a heavy duty design. But guess what, delicate
If the man is the idea that carbon fiber is the only real material
that serious cyclists consider-- that everything else is a compromise,
then i think being anti-the man is a plus. That is how I interpret
Surly's ads-- we make good, smart bikes that arent what the
Bicylcling's Buyers Guide tell
JIm:
I'm not normally a tweed sort of guy but that Nigel Smith on the LHT
absolutely belongs on that bike. What a nice, tidy touch. I've never
seen an LHT set up other than as a tourer. The Atlantis is highly
adaptable (you were up to what, version 8.0?) so the LHT should be
equally so.
RE:
if not TIG'd rivs, how about some lugged carbon fiber?
http://www.ifbikes.com/OurBikes/Road/XS/
http://www.ifbikes.com/OurBikes/Road/Corvid/
Grant could do the Garth Brooks/Chris Gaines thing! no, wait
that didn't really work either ;)
safe riding this weekend everyone!
--
You received
There is no place I found in the catalogue Grant says anything about
the Roadeo being out there from a Riv perspective.
Me thinks I missed it or you be making up stuff.
On Dec 11, 12:11 pm, JoelMatthews joelmatth...@mac.com wrote:
Headtubes on BLT and BLTaiwans are short...
Geometry is close
think about staying in business and making money. sell more framesets,
sell more parts, sell more complete bikes.
surlys are sorta ugly. surly have ugly decals and are heavy, and don't
think there are quill stemmed ones either.
think about a bike that looks as great as an orange or green Sam,
I think a TIG'd Riv would be great-- and was mentioned a few times in
the early days (if i remember correctly). To me, it is more about how
the bike fits and rides then how it looks-- though how it looks is
important too. If it isnt a direction they are interested in going, I
can respect that. But
i'm all for supporting usa manufacturing, but the Sams look so great.
i think Grant could do something along the Roadeo line with
lightweight tigged tubes done in Taiwan, tall headtubes, threaded
forks, and a new line of steel open face quills to fill the void Salsa
left in the market and add some
I guess my thought on this is why would RBW want to drop into the Surly/Soma
price arena? GP has said many times he thinks Surly makes a great product.
As far as a TIG'ed Roadeo equivalent goes, I think it would cannibalize
Roadeo sales to some degree since it could be lighter and that is where
On Thu, 2009-12-10 at 14:13 -0800, eflayer wrote:
i'm all for supporting usa manufacturing, but the Sams look so great.
i think Grant could do something along the Roadeo line with
lightweight tigged tubes done in Taiwan, tall headtubes, threaded
forks, and a new line of steel open face quills
i did write him on this exact topic a few days ago. just said it was
an idea i had and no need, on his part, to respond.
then i thought i'd put it out to the universe to see what others
thought.
On Dec 10, 2:23 pm, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote:
On Thu, 2009-12-10 at 14:13 -0800,
Doesn't Rivendell sell T-shirts that say Always steel, always
lugged? :D
I think there are already plenty of TIG constructed bikes that pretty
well match Rivendell's design philosophy. For example, Surly LHT,
Box Dog Pelican (that was reviewed in the latest Bicycle Quarterly)
and Bruce Gordon
Well done USA made Tiggs are not necessarily cheap. Mike Flanigan
(AntBike) and Bruce Gordon make excellent Tigged bikes. They are not
as pricey as lugged, but more than $650.00.
Nor do I see what Grant can do that Surly, Kogswell, VO, etc., etc.
are not already, to squeeze a lighter, nicer
Tee shirts come in batches and it would be easy to update them to:
Always steel, mostly tigged, sometimes lugged...and now look at all
the money we have in the bank?
On Dec 10, 3:14 pm, newenglandbike matthiasbe...@gmail.com wrote:
Doesn't Rivendell sell T-shirts that say Always steel, always
Try VeloOrange for well designed and inexpensive tig welded bikes.
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Tiggua...Tagua. Both nuts! What next? Plaid Pleather?
On Dec 10, 6:34 pm, Mike mjawn...@gmail.com wrote:
Try VeloOrange for well designed and inexpensive tig welded bikes.
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To post to this
Well, I have a 1996 All Rounder (lugged), a ~1995 Ritchey (fillet
brazed) and a 1998 Gunnar Crosshairs (TIG). Two of the three were
made in Waterford WI.
The Gunnar rides great. Handles superbly, light, stiff enough
(Reynolds 853 in those days). But it doesn't inspire. It's the
I feel the same as you about the ultimate aesthetic. What got me
thinking on this topic is my new tigged 2009 Fuji Touring. It rides
as good as, if not better than, any other steel bike I have ever
owned. Tigged in China. Not so pretty of paint or quality of welds.
But there is absolutely
A small company can't be all things to all customers. RBW probably has
a corner on the new-production, non-custom, lugged-steel market. It's
hard to imagine what RBW could do with TIG that Surly hasn't done
already (Surly bikes are wonderful and smart and high quality, and a
$100 powdercoat
My T-shirt says Still Lugged Steel. Vindication will come. Just you
wait.
The answer to your question don't you think Riv/Grant could do a
really good job on a tigged frame? is of course Yes, they could.
The follow on is Why?. They have developed a niche market that they
understand and serve
This topic is raised too often. The search function applies to conceptual
conversations, as well.
Thanks,
erik
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To
i did a search on tigged and did not find much.
maybe Grant will surprise you/us and announce the Atlantis replacement
will be tigged. then he will have order new tee shirts.
On Dec 10, 5:05 pm, erik jensen bicyclen...@gmail.com wrote:
This topic is raised too often. The search function
On Dec 10, 7:36 pm, eflayer eddie.fla...@att.net wrote:
I feel the same as you about the ultimate aesthetic. What got me
thinking on this topic is my new tigged 2009 Fuji Touring. It rides
as good as, if not better than, any other steel bike I have ever
owned. Tigged in China. Not so
it actually, to me, rides way better than it looks. I have updated
mine with Ultegra/Open Pros, B17, and upjutting Salsa SUL quill.
Don't think I'm imagining the ride qualities. Even sold as a touring
bike, it seems lighter duty than that to me, and the geometry rides
like a faster bike than the
Just not sure the TIG welded guys are doing that much better these
days. Haven't really seen Surly (or others) flying off the sales
floor this year.
Have nothing against them. Have owned TIG made bikes in the past and
am picking up another one tomorrow. But as others have said many
times, it's
I suspect Grant is as likely to sell TIG welded steel bikes as he is
to sell lugged carbon fiber.
Bill
On Dec 10, 1:38 pm, eflayer eddie.fla...@att.net wrote:
I know it goes against the grain of everything we stand for here.
Actually, what do we stand for here? But don't you think Riv/Grant
Riv/Grant are leaders, not followers. A tigged Atlantis is called
an LHT. Probability of Grant copying Surly is zero.
dougP
On Dec 10, 5:22 pm, eflayer eddie.fla...@att.net wrote:
i did a search on tigged and did not find much.
maybe Grant will surprise you/us and announce the Atlantis
on 12/10/09 1:52 PM, eflayer at eddie.fla...@att.net wrote:
think about a bike that looks as great as an orange or green Sam, that
rides great, looks great, and cost 30% less.
Now, I thought that the Sam was a great riding, beautiful looking lugged
bicycle frame that cost 50% of a
Dear Eddie,
I don't want to be the one to pour tomato ketchup all over your
chocolate cake but let me quote from
http://www.rivbike.com/article/bicycle_making/the_big_picture
All of our frames are lugged steel. Steel, because it's the best
material for frames, in terms of toughness, longevity,
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