[RDA-L] alternative titles and variant access points

2013-10-02 Thread Adam L. Schiff
I'm wondering what the collective wisdom is regarding providing a variant access point in bibliographic records to the portion of a title proper that precedes an alternative title. As you all are probably aware, in RDA an alternative title is treated as part of the title proper (2.3.2.1), but

Re: [RDA-L] alternative titles and variant access points

2013-10-02 Thread J. McRee Elrod
Adam said: >As you all are probably aware, in RDA an alternative title is treated as >part of the title proper (2.3.2.1), As it was in AACR2. Granted it would be better if the $b were after the ",or", before the alternate title. (Earlier, it created a problem with GMD placement, but that conc

Re: [RDA-L] alternative titles and variant access points

2013-10-03 Thread Kevin M Randall
Adam Schiff wrote: > 100 1_ Owens, Jo, $d 1961- > 240 10 Add kids, stir briskly > 245 10 Add kids, stir briskly, or, How I learned to love my life / > $c Jo Owens. > > Now the question I have is, given that the 240 that would be required in > an RDA record for this resource (because you

Re: [RDA-L] alternative titles and variant access points

2013-10-03 Thread Robert Maxwell
al Message- From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access [mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of Kevin M Randall Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2013 11:09 AM To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA Subject: Re: [RDA-L] alternative titles and variant access points Ad

Re: [RDA-L] alternative titles and variant access points

2013-10-03 Thread Adam L. Schiff
t: Re: [RDA-L] alternative titles and variant access points I agree with Kevin and am tickled that he's tickled about this :-) I realize this isn't the PCC list or the MARC list, but would people be willing to push for officially switching to Adam's suggested 700 12 $i Contains (wor

Re: [RDA-L] alternative titles and variant access points

2013-10-03 Thread J. McRee Elrod
Robert Maxwell said: >I realize this isn't the PCC list or the MARC list, but would people be >willing to push for officially switching to Adam's suggested > >700 12 $i Contains (work): $a Owens, Jo, $d 1961- $t Add kids, stir briskly Many of our clients would not accept this. They do not want

Re: [RDA-L] alternative titles and variant access points

2013-10-04 Thread Mary Mastraccio
C.CA] On Behalf Of Robert Maxwell Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2013 6:49 PM To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA Subject: Re: [RDA-L] alternative titles and variant access points I agree with Kevin and am tickled that he's tickled about this :-) I realize this isn't the PCC list or the MARC l

Re: [RDA-L] alternative titles and variant access points

2013-10-04 Thread Mary Mastraccio
tion and Access / Resource Description and Access [mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of J. McRee Elrod Sent: Friday, October 04, 2013 1:41 AM To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA Subject: Re: [RDA-L] alternative titles and variant access points Robert Maxwell said: >I realize this isn&#x

Re: [RDA-L] alternative titles and variant access points

2013-10-04 Thread Arakawa, Steven
BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of Adam L. Schiff Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2013 10:24 PM To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA Subject: Re: [RDA-L] alternative titles and variant access points My comments below Bob's. --Adam Schiff UW Libraries Seattle, WA AS: Without the relationship designator, it is not

Re: [RDA-L] alternative titles and variant access points

2013-10-04 Thread Kelleher, Martin
-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of Mary Mastraccio Sent: 04 October 2013 13:42 To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA Subject: Re: [RDA-L] alternative titles and variant access points I understood the question to be about making 240 obsolete. Are you suggesting that 240 be made obsolete but u

Re: [RDA-L] alternative titles and variant access points

2013-10-04 Thread Kevin M Randall
Steven Arakawa wrote: > If all work/expression AAPs are entered as 700 a/t analytics, the title in 245 > is exposed and the incidence of conflicts requiring 130 would increase > substantially, no? There would be no increase resulting from such a change, because there would not be a change in the

Re: [RDA-L] alternative titles and variant access points

2013-10-04 Thread Goldfarb, Kathie
cess / Resource Description and Access [mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of Kevin M Randall Sent: Friday, October 04, 2013 9:35 AM To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA Subject: Re: [RDA-L] alternative titles and variant access points Steven Arakawa wrote: > If all work/expression AAPs are

Re: [RDA-L] alternative titles and variant access points

2013-10-04 Thread Jenifer K Marquardt
er 03, 2013 7:49 PM To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA Subject: Re: [RDA-L] alternative titles and variant access points I agree with Kevin and am tickled that he's tickled about this :-) I realize this isn't the PCC list or the MARC list, but would people be willing to push for officially

Re: [RDA-L] alternative titles and variant access points

2013-10-04 Thread Michael Borries
ot;--Eliza R. Snow, 1842. -Original Message- From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access [mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of Kevin M Randall Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2013 11:09 AM To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA Subject: Re: [RDA-L] alternati

Re: [RDA-L] alternative titles and variant access points

2013-10-04 Thread Arakawa, Steven
vin M Randall Sent: Friday, October 04, 2013 10:35 AM To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA Subject: Re: [RDA-L] alternative titles and variant access points Steven Arakawa wrote: > If all work/expression AAPs are entered as 700 a/t analytics, the > title in 245 is exposed and the incidence of

Re: [RDA-L] alternative titles and variant access points

2013-10-04 Thread Kevin M Randall
3 11:01 AM > To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA > Subject: Re: [RDA-L] alternative titles and variant access points > > What I was thinking of was: > > 100 Smith, John > 240 Poems. Selections > 245 Nature / poems by John Smith and Joan Jones. > 700 12 Jones, Joan.

Re: [RDA-L] alternative titles and variant access points

2013-10-04 Thread Robert Maxwell
.GC.CA] On Behalf Of Mary Mastraccio Sent: Friday, October 04, 2013 6:42 AM To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA Subject: Re: [RDA-L] alternative titles and variant access points I understood the question to be about making 240 obsolete. Are you suggesting that 240 be made obsolete but use 246 inst

Re: [RDA-L] alternative titles and variant access points

2013-10-04 Thread Robert Maxwell
-Eliza R. Snow, 1842. -Original Message- From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access [mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of Arakawa, Steven Sent: Friday, October 04, 2013 10:01 AM To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA Subject: Re: [RDA-L] alternative titles a

Re: [RDA-L] alternative titles and variant access points

2013-10-04 Thread J. McRee Elrod
Mary said: >I understood the question to be about making 240 obsolete. Are you >suggesting that 240 be made obsolete but use 246 instead of 700? The thread began (as the subject line indicates) with how to handle alternate titles. I suggested a 246 for the alternate title, but not the first port

Re: [RDA-L] alternative titles and variant access points

2013-10-04 Thread Arakawa, Steven
[mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of Kevin M Randall Sent: Friday, October 04, 2013 12:10 PM To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA Subject: Re: [RDA-L] alternative titles and variant access points But what *is* the 130 in your examples? The AAP for the work/expression is in the 700 fi

Re: [RDA-L] alternative titles and variant access points

2013-10-04 Thread Kevin M Randall
ng AAPs: Smith, John. Nature Smith, John. Sea > -Original Message- > From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access > [mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of Arakawa, Steven > Sent: Friday, October 04, 2013 12:42 PM > To: RDA-L@

Re: [RDA-L] alternative titles and variant access points

2013-10-04 Thread Adam Schiff
Marquardt Sent: Friday, October 04, 2013 8:18 AM To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA Subject: Re: [RDA-L] alternative titles and variant access points I forwarded this discussion to our music cataloger, Neil Hughes. With his permission, I am sharing his response below. On my own behalf, I have to

Re: [RDA-L] alternative titles and variant access points

2013-10-04 Thread Adam Schiff
t be different). Adam L. Schiff University of Washington Libraries -Original Message- From: Goldfarb, Kathie Sent: Friday, October 04, 2013 8:07 AM To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA Subject: Re: [RDA-L] alternative titles and variant access points It is a long time since I was first lear

Re: [RDA-L] alternative titles and variant access points

2013-10-04 Thread Adam Schiff
/ Resource Description and Access [mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of Adam L. Schiff Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2013 10:24 PM To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA Subject: Re: [RDA-L] alternative titles and variant access points My comments below Bob's. --Adam Schiff UW Libraries

Re: [RDA-L] alternative titles and variant access points

2013-10-04 Thread Arakawa, Steven
iday, October 04, 2013 2:17 PM To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA Subject: Re: [RDA-L] alternative titles and variant access points If the creator's name is part of the AAP, there is no conflict, unless the combination of name and preferred title are the same[footnote]. The title proper o

Re: [RDA-L] alternative titles and variant access points

2013-10-04 Thread Kevin M Randall
Steven Arakawa wrote: > Both work titles and conventional collective titles fall under the category > of preferred titles. I understand that work titles can conflict and we would > need to break the conflict in such cases, but conventional collective titles > are assigned deliberately to collocate

Re: [RDA-L] alternative titles and variant access points

2013-10-04 Thread Arakawa, Steven
A Subject: Re: [RDA-L] alternative titles and variant access points Steven, If all work/expression AAPs are entered in 7XX, then there would not be a 130 either. Those would become 730s. I think Kevin is correct that each record would start with 245, with no 1XXs at all. So for you compilation

Re: [RDA-L] alternative titles and variant access points

2013-10-04 Thread Adam L. Schiff
* ** On Fri, 4 Oct 2013, Arakawa, Steven wrote: Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2013 21:54:08 + From: "Arakawa, Steven" Reply-To: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA Subject: Re: [RDA-L] alternative titles and variant access points

Re: [RDA-L] alternative titles and variant access points

2013-10-04 Thread Keith R. Trimmer
On Fri, 4 Oct 2013, Kevin M Randall wrote: Steven Arakawa wrote: If all work/expression AAPs are entered as 700 a/t analytics, the title in 245 is exposed and the incidence of conflicts requiring 130 would increase substantially, no? There would be no increase resulting from such a change, be

Re: [RDA-L] alternative titles and variant access points - some thoughts

2013-10-04 Thread Brenndorfer, Thomas
There are two types of relationships being discussed here, in moving 240 to a 700 name-title access point. Primary relationships (RDA 17), such as Work Manifested, are for relationships like work-to-manifestation relationships. Related works (RDA 25) include whole-part relationships, such as th