Re: Prefered backup method?

> On Wed, Sep 17, 2003 at 10:56:06AM -0500, Benjamin J. Weiss wrote: >> Now, if your NAS is on the other end of a fast fiber connection a couple >> of >> miles down the road ;) > > Picture this scenario: > > - One storage box onsite > - One identical storage box offsite over fast fiber connect

Re: Prefered backup method?

> At 11:00 9/18/2003 -0400, you wrote: >>Doesn't the fast fiber connection cost on a monthly basis? So you go >> from >>a fixed cost solution to a monthly cost. It might be cost effective to >>start but for how long will that remain true? > > Not always. You're assuming your market, your carrier

RE: Prefered backup method?

At 09:40 9/19/2003 -0700, you wrote: AragonX on Thursday, September 18, 2003 8:00 AM said: > Doesn't the fast fiber connection cost on a monthly basis? So you go > from a fixed cost solution to a monthly cost. It might be cost > effective to start but for how long w

Re: Prefered backup method?

At 11:00 9/18/2003 -0400, you wrote: Doesn't the fast fiber connection cost on a monthly basis? So you go from a fixed cost solution to a monthly cost. It might be cost effective to start but for how long will that remain true? Not always. You're assuming your market, your carriers, your conditio

Re: Prefered backup method?

On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 09:40:11 -0700 "Chris W. Parker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > AragonX > on Thursday, September 18, 2003 8:00 AM said: > > > Doesn't the fast fiber connection cost on a monthly basis? So you > > go > > from a fixed cost solution to a monthly cost

RE: Prefered backup method?

AragonX on Thursday, September 18, 2003 8:00 AM said: > Doesn't the fast fiber connection cost on a monthly basis? So you go > from a fixed cost solution to a monthly cost. It might be cost > effective to start but for how long will that remain true? Wait... Doesn

Re: Prefered backup method?

> On Wed, Sep 17, 2003 at 10:56:06AM -0500, Benjamin J. Weiss wrote: >> Now, if your NAS is on the other end of a fast fiber connection a couple >> of >> miles down the road ;) > > Picture this scenario: > > - One storage box onsite > - One identical storage box offsite over fast fiber connect

Re: Prefered backup method?

On Wed, Sep 17, 2003 at 02:48:10PM -0400, Kent Borg wrote: > How long does it take to do a backup of the 3.5TB storage? How long > does it take to get a file out of the backup? How long to do a > restore? This is different from home network territory. You're trying to make me cuss again aren't

Re: Prefered backup method?

On Wed, Sep 17, 2003 at 12:27:57PM -0600, Rodolfo J. Paiz wrote: > Any disaster that hits the main server in Texas, the SparcStation in > Guatemala, my P100 at home, _and_ the Dutchman has earned my data and is > welcome to have it for lunch! Granted, having only 10GB to backup > eliminates all

Re: Prefered backup method?

How long does it take to do a backup of the 3.5TB storage? How long does it take to get a file out of the backup? How long to do a restore? This is different from home network territory. More questions: How much data changes from one backup to the next? Is there room for incremental backups, a

RE: Prefered backup method?

> I'll step back in here since people seem to want to slam > tape. I happen > to manage systems in a medium-size enterprise. One server alone has > 3.5TB of storage. For that server, we take weekly full > backups and plan > to keep (most systems are already there but this one isn't > yet)

Re: Prefered backup method?

At 13:03 9/17/2003 -0400, you wrote: Ah, yes you did, indeed. I had missed that that excellent post was by you. (A reaction to it: Most instances of people saying "to be secure, uninstall everything, make the box unusable" make me scoff, but your description of a very limited backup box is actual

RE: Prefered backup method?

> NAS is short for Network Attached Storage. So NAS-es would > be "Network > Attached Storages" which doesn't sound right :-). How about > NAS arrays > or NAS appliances or NAS subsystems? > > -- > Ed Wilts, Mounds View, MN, USA > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Member #1, Red Hat Community A

Re: Prefered backup method?

At 12:53 9/17/2003 -0500, you wrote: I'll step back in here since people seem to want to slam tape. I'll be more precise: I design, run, and manage systems in home, SOHO, or SMB environments. 3.25TB is still huge, and most entities with which I do business or with which I am acquainted haven't ev

Re: Prefered backup method?

On Wed, Sep 17, 2003 at 10:12:14AM -0600, Rodolfo J. Paiz wrote: > At 10:56 9/17/2003 -0500, you wrote: > >This is true, but there is one problem in the disaster recovery universe > >that it does not resolve: offsite storage. If your backups are routinely > >kept in the same place as your servers

Re: Prefered backup method?

On Wed, Sep 17, 2003 at 10:14:52AM -0600, Rodolfo J. Paiz wrote: > Don't like it. If users can access the backup box, or if (as per your last > point) the NAS-es (how the hell do you pluralize NAS, anyway?) NAS is short for Network Attached Storage. So NAS-es would be "Network Attached Storages

Re: Prefered backup method?

On Wed, Sep 17, 2003 at 12:49:58PM -0400, Javier Gostling wrote: > If you backup to another building, you are still not protected > against some city-wide disasters such as a nuclear bomb (ok. that's > stretching it a little too far, but it states the point). You don't need to be so exotic to find

Re: Prefered backup method?

On Wed, Sep 17, 2003 at 10:09:55AM -0600, Rodolfo J. Paiz wrote: > As you've correctly pointed out elsewhere, this is part of the > backup _strategy_ whereas the argument is about _media_. I did point > out initially that time travel is important in a backup strategy and > suggested a way to do it.

Re: Prefered backup method?

On Wed, Sep 17, 2003 at 10:14:52AM -0600, Rodolfo J. Paiz wrote: > >- One onsite box mounting both storage boxes' nbd devices in raid1 and > > receiving/performing backups > > Don't like it. If users can access the backup box, or if (as per your last > point) the NAS-es (how the hell do you plur

Re: Prefered backup method?

At 12:08 9/17/2003 -0400, you wrote: Picture this scenario: - One storage box onsite - One identical storage box offsite over fast fiber connection - Storage boxes provide storage space over network block device - One onsite box mounting both storage boxes' nbd devices in raid1 and receiving/per

Re: Prefered backup method?

At 10:56 9/17/2003 -0500, you wrote: This is true, but there is one problem in the disaster recovery universe that it does not resolve: offsite storage. If your backups are routinely kept in the same place as your servers, and you have a catastrophic event, you will have lost your data forever. N

Re: Prefered backup method?

At 11:31 9/17/2003 -0400, you wrote: But in your details you miss at least two key reasons for making "backups": 1. They can be kept off-site and so protect against a generalized site failure (earthquake, hurricane, fire, flood, roof collapse under heavy snow, etc.) True, and a point of wh

Re: Prefered backup method?

On Wed, Sep 17, 2003 at 10:56:06AM -0500, Benjamin J. Weiss wrote: > Now, if your NAS is on the other end of a fast fiber connection a couple of > miles down the road ;) Picture this scenario: - One storage box onsite - One identical storage box offsite over fast fiber connection - Storage bo

Re: Prefered backup method?

On Wed, Sep 17, 2003 at 08:56:56AM -0600, Rodolfo J. Paiz wrote: > At 10:24 9/17/2003 -0400, you wrote: > >What about using cygwin to run rsync and openssh on the Windows machine? > > A little heavy, don't you think? That's a lot of stuff to run just for > rsync; I like Ed's idea of smbmount bett

Re: Prefered backup method?

> I recently set up a NAS box for a customer, using a Promise chassis and 15 > 250GB drives, which resulted in 3.25TB real useful space and cost a total > of $6,000 (overall cost per GB: $1.85). These numbers include a hot spare > drive and the parity drive, so only 13 drives are "useful" and the b

Re: Prefered backup method?

On Wed, 2003-09-17 at 10:31, Kent Borg wrote: > On Wed, Sep 17, 2003 at 08:56:02AM -0600, Rodolfo J. Paiz wrote: > > I recently set up a NAS box for a customer, using a Promise chassis > > and 15 250GB drives, which resulted in 3.25TB real useful space and > > cost a total of $6,000 (overall cost p

Re: Prefered backup method?

On Wed, Sep 17, 2003 at 08:56:02AM -0600, Rodolfo J. Paiz wrote: > I recently set up a NAS box for a customer, using a Promise chassis > and 15 250GB drives, which resulted in 3.25TB real useful space and > cost a total of $6,000 (overall cost per GB: $1.85). You make a good argument that disks ar

Re: Prefered backup method?

On Wed, Sep 17, 2003 at 10:24:50AM -0400, Javier Gostling wrote: > On Tue, Sep 16, 2003 at 11:25:36PM -0600, Rodolfo J. Paiz wrote: > > The only catch is my wife's computer, since I do not have rsync for Windows > > 2000. I need a way to use Putty (more likely, pscp) to do rsync's job, but > > I

Re: Prefered backup method?

At 10:24 9/17/2003 -0400, you wrote: On Tue, Sep 16, 2003 at 11:25:36PM -0600, Rodolfo J. Paiz wrote: > The only catch is my wife's computer, since I do not have rsync for Windows > 2000. I need a way to use Putty (more likely, pscp) to do rsync's job, but > I have not figured that out yet. What

Re: Prefered backup method?

At 06:48 9/17/2003 -0500, you wrote: On Tue, Sep 16, 2003 at 11:25:36PM -0600, Rodolfo J. Paiz wrote: > Tape is old, linear, slow, EXPENSIVE, and it breaks. Nasty stuff, no > one should use it anymore really. You want size, get a 160GB for $100 > ($0.625/GB), and by the way you'll get way more spee

Re: Prefered backup method?

On Tue, Sep 16, 2003 at 11:25:36PM -0600, Rodolfo J. Paiz wrote: > The only catch is my wife's computer, since I do not have rsync for Windows > 2000. I need a way to use Putty (more likely, pscp) to do rsync's job, but > I have not figured that out yet. What about using cygwin to run rsync and

Re: Prefered backup method?

On Tue, Sep 16, 2003 at 11:25:36PM -0600, Rodolfo J. Paiz wrote: > At 15:21 9/11/2003 +0200, you wrote: > >Do you folks have prefered backup utils and methods? > >ie tar or cpio, perhaps something else? > >Is there a beter way to backup, instead of tape perhaps to another > >Harddrive? > > Tape i

Re: Prefered backup method?

At 15:21 9/11/2003 +0200, you wrote: Do you folks have prefered backup utils and methods? ie tar or cpio, perhaps something else? Is there a beter way to backup, instead of tape perhaps to another Harddrive? Tape is old, linear, slow, EXPENSIVE, and it breaks. Nasty stuff, no one should use it an

Re: Prefered backup method?

Kent Borg wrote: Let me give and example. Let's say I have: - initial backup - incremental backup 1 - incremental backup 2 - incremental backup 3 - incremental backup 4 These backups share common files via hard links. How much space does backup 2 take? Or, put another way, how much space w

Re: Prefered backup method?

On Fri, Sep 12, 2003 at 01:55:47PM -0700, Jack Bowling wrote: > > I am doing backups with a similar hard links-based technique and I > > have a question: How can I tell how much space one of my backups > > takes? I can't do a "du one_of_several_backups -s" because the hard > > links make all the f

Re: Prefered backup method?

On Fri, Sep 12, 2003 at 11:35:41AM -0400, Kent Borg wrote: > On Thu, Sep 11, 2003 at 08:23:39AM -0700, Jack Bowling wrote: > > I think backup methods are determined by your level of paranoia. For > > myself, I use a dedicated backup hard drive and rsnapshot > > http://rsnapshot.sourceforge.net for

Re: Prefered backup method?

On Thu, Sep 11, 2003 at 08:23:39AM -0700, Jack Bowling wrote: > I think backup methods are determined by your level of paranoia. For > myself, I use a dedicated backup hard drive and rsnapshot > http://rsnapshot.sourceforge.net for doing the grunt work. I am doing backups with a similar hard links

RE: Prefered backup method?

] Subject: RE: Prefered backup method? Jason, Thank you and apologies, I should have been more creative/investigative. I have both books already (older versions). I'll follow up on the link. I was hoping for gems of wisdom not usually documented :) Regards Denham > -Original

Re: Prefered backup method?

Jack Byers [EMAIL PROTECTED] Just wondering Do you folks have prefered backup utils and methods? ie tar or cpio, perhaps something else? Is there a beter way to backup, instead of tape perhaps to another Harddrive? Just a thought that occured to me, I would like to see if my backup m

RE: Prefered backup method?

Thanks Jack, I'll look into this one. Regards Denham > -Original Message- > From: Jack Bowling [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003 5:24 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: Prefered backup method? > > > I think backup methods

Re: Prefered backup method?

** Reply to message from Denham Eva <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on Thu, 11 Sep 2003 15:21:38 +0200 > Hello > > Just wondering > Do you folks have prefered backup utils and methods? > ie tar or cpio, perhaps something else? > Is there a beter way to backup, instead of tape perhaps to another > Harddr

RE: Prefered backup method?

ilto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003 4:00 PM > To: Red Hat Mailing List > Subject: Re: Prefered backup method? > > Hi Denham. Please search the archives, Google, read. There > are tons of > good documentation on this. How you do it depends on your >

Re: Prefered backup method?

On Thu, 2003-09-11 at 09:21, Denham Eva wrote: > Hello > > Just wondering > Do you folks have prefered backup utils and methods? > ie tar or cpio, perhaps something else? > Is there a beter way to backup, instead of tape perhaps to another > Harddrive? > > Just a thought that occured to me,

Prefered backup method?

Hello Just wondering Do you folks have prefered backup utils and methods? ie tar or cpio, perhaps something else? Is there a beter way to backup, instead of tape perhaps to another Harddrive? Just a thought that occured to me, I would like to see if my backup methodologies are correct. Rega