RE: Two kinds of religious exemption arguments

2013-12-18 Thread Alan Brownstein
Sorry. My mistake. My post was focusing on statutory accommodations because RFRA has been the focus of most of the recent discussion on the list. Eugene is quite right that the case for an analogy to family relationships is stronger for statutory accommodations. But there is some basis for anal

Taxes assessed on inaction, when the inaction turns out to be religiously motivated

2013-12-18 Thread Volokh, Eugene
I'm not sure that Marty's two-step approach works. To be sure, a legislature can always require everyone to pay taxes. But if the legislature requires people who do X to pay a tax, while people who don't do X don't pay the tax, and X turns out to be something that people feel a

RE: Are large employers really better off dropping health insurance?

2013-12-18 Thread Volokh, Eugene
To make Braunfeld analogy closer, wouldn't you'd need a law that said, "if you aren't open 24/7, you have to pay an $X tax" -- or, in the Sherbert context, "if you quit work without good cause, you have to pay a tax equal to X% of your unemployment compensation"? I would think t

RE: Two kinds of religious exemption arguments

2013-12-18 Thread Volokh, Eugene
I appreciate Alan's point, but I wonder how far it goes. First, I might not have been clear enough on this in my post, but I was speaking of what should be a matter of constitutional entitlement, or entitlement under a generally applicable exemption scheme. And w

RE: Are large employers really better off dropping health insurance?

2013-12-18 Thread Alan Brownstein
David's correct that there may be a discrepancy here --- and the greater the discrepancy the greater the cost to government and the public of providing the accommodation. I think the discrepancy is likely to be smaller rather than larger in cases involving government mandates requiring third pa

RE: Two kinds of religious exemption arguments

2013-12-18 Thread Alan Brownstein
Eugene writes, "Now it seems to me -- though of course others disagree -- that the normative case for a right to impose costs on others through conduct simply because you think God requires that conduct is not an appealing case. Your God is your God, not mine; why should I lose s

Re: Are large employers really better off dropping health insurance?

2013-12-18 Thread Michael Worley
You have a fair point; I'm uncomfortable with *Reynolds*, but that doesn't mean there weren't less protections for religion pre-incorporation. However, the distinguishing of *Yoder *and *Sherbert* (not to mention *Cantwell*) in *Smith* is just a legal fiction Scalia made up. The Law Review artic

Re: Are large employers really better off dropping health insurance?

2013-12-18 Thread Marci Hamilton
This reasoning is based on the mythology created around the free exercise clause by the reactions to Smith and the misrepresentations about the doctrine to Congress. It is quite remarkable this many years later so many continue to parrot what is in fact untrue. Yoder was an outlier and Sherber

RE: Two kinds of religious exemption arguments

2013-12-18 Thread Volokh, Eugene
I would think that, if Hobby Lobby wins the case, this will just mean that future Congresses who are worried about such things should add a "RFRA will not apply to this statute" provision to statutes when they don't want any religious exemptions from those statutes. That's one a

RE: Two kinds of religious exemption arguments

2013-12-18 Thread Levinson, Sanford V
This is very helpful. For Rick's argument, I still think the central question is why we would accommodate, even if the costs are relatively low, someone with religious objections, say, to working on an assembly line producing munitions, but not a secularist with a very tender conscience. (As a

Two kinds of religious exemption arguments

2013-12-18 Thread Volokh, Eugene
Rick Garnett's and (less directly) Michael Worley's posts highlight, I think, the fact that there are two kinds of religious exemption arguments that are often heard. The first is Rick's argument, at least in this instance, which focuses on what might see as low-

Re: Are large employers really better off dropping health insurance?

2013-12-18 Thread David Cruz
Alan, Did you mean the two quoted passages below to be equivalent? They seem somewhat different (at least potentially) to me. That is, the cost of having the government rather than employers provide a benefit might outstrip the amount an employer gains by not providing the benefit, might it n

RE: Are large employers really better off dropping health insurance?

2013-12-18 Thread Alan Brownstein
Rick asks an important question. We can step back from the constraints of the current litigation and think about how this issue should be resolved on a clean slate, (This analysis also requires ignoring the polarized and dysfunctional governments that exist at the national level and in many stat

RE: Are large employers really better off dropping health insurance?

2013-12-18 Thread Rick Garnett
Dear friends, I'm also grateful to Eugene, Marty, Nelson, Micah, Fred, and many, many others who have been blogging and writing - carefully and insightfully - about the HHS cases. I wanted to raise a not particularly technical or doctrinal question that has been on my own mind as I think about

Re: Are large employers really better off dropping health insurance?

2013-12-18 Thread Marty Lederman
I apologize for not responding right away, but I'm slammed with other stuff. There is a lot to say here, and I think it's important -- Eugene is raising some good questions. I'll try to respond in the next day or so; in the meantime, I'm very grateful for all the reactions, both supportive and cr

Nativity scene at Guantanamo triggers controversy

2013-12-18 Thread Dawinder S. Sidhu
I came across this article and thought it may be of interest to some members of the list. Best wishes to all for a pleasant holiday season, Dave -- Dawinder "Dave" S. Sidhu Supreme Court Fellow, U.S. Sentencing Commission Assistant Professor of Law, University of New Mexico School of Law si...@la

Re: Are large employers really better off dropping health insurance?

2013-12-18 Thread Micah Schwartzman
Even if some employers have to pay more under the 4980H(a) tax, would that be sufficient to show a substantial burden? In Braunfeld v. Brown, the Court held that laws may indirectly burden religious believers even when they impose "some financial sacrifice in order to observe their religious bel

Re: Are large employers really better off dropping health insurance?

2013-12-18 Thread Michael Worley
Even Free Speech violations about time, place and manner get intermediate (heightened) scrutiny. My reading of Smith suggest Free Exercise claims do not. On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 8:08 AM, Paul Horwitz wrote: > I don't think it becomes the equivalent of the Ninth Amendment, or a > shell, without

Re: Are large employers really better off dropping health insurance?

2013-12-18 Thread Paul Horwitz
I don't think it becomes the equivalent of the Ninth Amendment, or a shell, without heightened scrutiny as a freestanding principle. And I say that as a fan of the pre-Smith regime. Rather, it becomes an equality/speech provision, like the rest of the modern First Amendment. I am by no means a f

Re: Are large employers really better off dropping health insurance?

2013-12-18 Thread Michael Worley
And yet, without some form of heightened scrutiny, the free exercise clause becomes a shell-- a hollow clause. I'm not saying RFRA gets the balancing right (I could make that argument, but I'm not), I'm saying that we have to let judges do this balancing in some way. Otherwise the Free Exercise C

Re: Are large employers really better off dropping health insurance?

2013-12-18 Thread Marci Hamilton
This exchange, which shows both Marty and Eugene's high qualifications for public service, underscores how RFRA (and RLUIPA) turn federal courts into super legislatures and violate the separation of powers -- as Boerne ruled. No court in my view is institutionally competent to make these assess