The current discourse has not been linked because it's for compiler
internals and language development, not general users. A second
instance is being set up for regular user discussion. It will get
linked from the home page. And both are available for anyone to
register in.
I always build in-tree, and it's fine.
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http://doc.rust-lang.org/guide-crates.html is much more in-depth.___
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Rust is not interested in putting anything automatically on the heap. :)
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It's not the wrong list, but usually StackOverflow works better.
(Sorry I don't know more about file descriptors :/)
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There's an open issue on the repo "officially provide the Rust logo"
Mozilla legal has been slow.
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Because you need to make b mutable to change its value. Rust's
variable bindings are immutable by default.
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Yup, that leading std:: in main shouldn't be there.
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Hey all,
I've been really busy, and let Brooklyn.rs slide. Rather than let the
perfect be the enemy of the good, we'll have another hack day this
Saturday, the 30th, at Brooklyn Roasting Company at 1pm. Next month
I'll try to do one on a weeknight somewhere.
I've also updated the community calend
I actually find mailing lists to have a perfectly serviceable UI, but
I recognize that others don't.
I'm just really an old man at heart...
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I closed 117, so it shouldn't be on the docket anymore.
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Sorry, all. I have a weekend project which has a mailchimp email signup on
the home page, and apparently someone went and signed up rust-dev.
What a weird coincidence.
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I think in general, especially now that Cargo exists, we don't really
need to add a lot more to the tree. Publish a package for it instead!
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I like the idea of SemVer being in the language itself, personally.
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Whoops, yes, it was just a typo.
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You shouldn't return a Box unless you have to: box does placement
new, so by not doing it yourself, you give them options:
struct Point {
x: int,
y: int,
}
impl Point {
fn bad_new() -> Box {
box Point { x: 1, y: 1 }
}
fn good_new() -> Point {
Point { x: 1, y:
You cannot.
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Hey all,
So! The new tutorial will be focused on building several small
projects in Rust. This example is the first one: a classic 'guessing
game.' This was one of the first programs I wrote when I first learned
C.
I'd like the feedback of the community before I actually start writing
the guide.
For those of you coming today, my train has been delayed multiple times, so I
will be a few minutes late. I'll be wearing a bright red Ruby shirt, because
that's funny and also more noticeable.
See you all soon!
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> I found all the clone()s in Rust unpleasant, it really put me off using ref
> counting.
Excellent. ;)
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> In case of trivial entities
The problem with this is what's trivial to you isn't trivial to someone else.
> think about the amount of update this may make necessary in case Rust
> language syntax changes.
Literally my job. ;) Luckily, the syntax has been pretty stable
lately, and most changes
Thanks everyone! :D
> Steve, let us know how we can help.
I think the best thing that the community can do is go through and add
examples in the API docs. I want to have 100% of the standard library
having examples by 1.0, but it's last on my list. The reason is that
they're nice, small chunks th
Hey all! I wrote up a blog post that you all should know about:
http://words.steveklabnik.com/rusts-documentation-is-about-to-drastically-improve
Here's the text, in Markdown:
Historically, [Rust](http://rust-lang.org/) has had a tough time with
documentation. Such a young programming language ch
Wonderful!
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It's not possible to directly write a Parsec port because we don't
have HKT and therefore monads. Ragel is probably the best bet for now.
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> Ah, that makes sense. Really looking forward to the 1.0 release; I don't
> know if it's on the roadmap, but if there's a way to plug it into Android or
> iOS builds via LLVM, that would be really neat. Also went ahead and posted
> on Reddit. ;)
Builds are already tested against Android, and I th
Hey Kevin!
Thanks so much for sharing! This is the right place, though the Reddit
may be interested, too.
I don't have a lot to say, but I _do_ have one or two things:
> Rust doesn't have prefix/postfix increment? Or, I just didn't find the right
> syntax of using it?
It does not. x = x + 1. M
I like Go's rule, as it also should hopefully prevent accidental
compatibility breakage.
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I want to ask everyone who DOES make it what their preferred day would
be, but I don't want to bias it towards the people who show up for the
first one, so if you're interested, please let me know in this thread
when's good for you.
You can't make it easy for everyone, but I can hope...
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Hey all!
So, I've moved to NYC, and one of the things I'm gonna miss the most
about SF is they Bay Area Rust Meetup... so let's do this!
Once my DNS resolves, the site will exist at http://www.brooklyn.rs .
Until then, you can check it out at
http://steveklabnik.github.io/brooklyn.rs/
TL;DR: The
I have this pipe dream of compiling every Rust version ever and GPG
signing them though heh.
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Cool. Expect to hear more from me very soon.
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Ah! Great!
Give me a few days, and I'll come up with something. :)
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Like any open source, start throwing some code together and then tell
us all about it! :)
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There isn't no. If you want to build a binding, just do it! The only
one I'm really aware of right now is
https://github.com/sfackler/rust-postgres
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I remember there being a thread about this before, but my search-fu is weak.
Is there a meetup in NYC yet? If not, it'll be just me at some random coffee
shop every month to start. :)
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We'd love to have more advanced type system features (I'm looking
forward to HKT myself), but the focus right now (seems to be) is
cutting out everything that needs to be cut before 1.0. We can add
neat new things after.
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one of the recent changes with box is that it does placement new. So
generally, this is bad:
fn foo(x: int) -> Box {
box (x + 1)
}
let y = foo(5);
Because it forces your caller to use a Box. Instead...
fn foo(x: int) -> int {
x + 1
}
Because then your caller can choose:
let y = foo(5);
Yup. The manual should not be trusted.
We'll fix it!
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A few quick intro answers. Just the high level, not comprehensive.
1. Not everyone prefers overloaded functions, or default arguments. I
know pcwalton has strong feelings about the first, so I'll leave him
to that :)
2. Design decision. Basically, we take Erlang's philosophy: recovering
from erro
Are you sure you have the exact same rustc on each machine? Even if it
was from a different day, this could happen, because that change is
_very_ recent.
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(that's basically a "I agree.")
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<3
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Yes, yes, and
let x = box 5;
let x = ~5;
same thing. It's also more general:
let x = box(GC) 5;
and lets all of these pointers support placement new, which only ~ did
previously:
fn foo() -> int { ...
let x = box foo();
Now that the RFC has been accepted, patches can be w
Yes, this is what Ruby does, and yes, it causes a lot of tears. It's
one of the biggest things that made the 1.8 -> 1.9 transition
difficult.
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If you move a repo, GitHub will automatically redirect it.
https://github.com/blog/1508-repository-redirects-are-here
So just delete the new one, then transfer the old one. :magic:
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I think the bigger issue is that we really need someone who lives and
breathes cryptography before we feel okay about shipping crypto code.
Bugs with crypto don't often happen because of poorly implemented
primitives: they happen when you combine those primitives in bad ways.
Formal analysis doesn
Hey all,
exercism.io is a site where you can try to solve short programming
problems, and then get feedback on your solution from others.
A few people have done some great work to get examples going in Rust,
and now that 0.10 is out, we want to try to ship it. Would anyone mind
checking out the P
I can finally retire that bookmark to
https://mail.mozilla.org/pipermail/rust-dev/2013-April/003867.html !
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Maybe.
For anyone who doesn't get Tony's reference:
http://cm.bell-labs.com/who/ken/trust.html
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Oh! Oh!
This is really useful because we have a bootstrapped compiler. It's
Monday, and I'm still on my first coffee, but couldn't this lead to
every single build since the history of time being signed?
- Steve
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I compiled from source just yesterday, but everything's been going swimmingly!
I just have one comment on 0.10: It seems like println was removed
from the prelude. While I can totally appreciate that most people will
use println!, which is automatically use-able, it _is_ making my
'hello world' ex
> Why isn't there a compiler flag like 'noboundscheck' which would disable all
> bounds checking for vectors? It would make it easier to have those language
> performance benchmarks (which people are bound to make with no bounds
> checking in C++ at least) be more apples-to-apples comparisons. A
I am not currently but hope to be someday.
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Yes, I meant Sunday, sigh.
Just keep me in the loop. :)
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I am going to be missing Thursday, unfortunately, but will be there Saturday.
I wouldn't mind helping organize, but if it's happening Thursday, I
won't be able to take part. No worries.
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> Incidentally, to the extent this is about a proposed document
> comparing Rust's safety to C++ in general
It's actually not: that's incidental. The idea is to communicate the core
ideas of Rust in 30 minutes or less. To give the reader an idea if they'd
like to pursue Rust further.
Memory safet
When I first wrote this, there was a LARGE amount of discussion on HN.
Here's one particular subthread that seems relevant:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7052518
It includes a C++11 bit of code with uniq_pointer that crashes.
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Part of the issue with that statement is that you may or may not
program in this way. Yes, people choose certain subsets of C++ that
are more or less safe, but the language can't help you with that.
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Oh, Patrick, I slightly mis-read what you said. Yes, that was the intention.
> I think official documentation shouldn't be directly trying to "sell" Rust
> against other languages,
While I agree, comparing against things we already know is a powerful
way to learn. I _do_ think that we shouldn't
I originally wrote that because I also made a post to the rust-dev
mailing list, and I assumed that people may want to talk about it
there. Totally, brand-new threads weren't expected at this moment.
I'll take that out of the post.
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I gave a talk at RuPy 2013 which chronicled some of the history of
Rust. I am not 100% sure if audio or video is up, but here are some
slides: http://steveklabnik.github.io/nobody_knows_rust/#/1
(hit the down arrow, this is the section about history specifically)
__
Hey Eric, thanks a ton for this. I knew there was some relationship
between HKT and monads, but hadn't taken the time to read into the
literature. This explanation is exceedingly simple and clear. Thanks.
(and now I _really_ want HKT for Rust, but I understand why it won't
happen immediately.)
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I would also agree that yes, this is the wrong default. Things should
default to Stability 1 unless otherwise marked. If you don't care
about stability tracking, this seems completely reasonable to properly
communicate your intentions.
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Yeah, I'm not into modifying every single commit, I basically only
want what bors already (apparently) already does.
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Why not make bors simply add the issue number in when it makes the
actual merge commit?
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Magnus, good to see you here!
I think this idea sounds neat, but I'm not really able to judge if
it's technically a good idea or not. Seems mega useful though.
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We've been steadily reducing the amount of punctuation in the
language, because people tend not to like it. Plus, in this case,
`mut` being longer than `!` or any other symbol is useful: mutability
should be a teeny bit painful.
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I would like to completely +1 what Tony has said. Unless we have a
dedicated core team member who cares about crypto, it should stay out
of the official distribution.
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Vote of strong support here. I removed the rustpkg chapter from Rust
for Rubyists for a reason. :/
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I don't think that `new` not returning a `Channel` is a big deal.
Conceptually, you are, both ends 'make up' a channel.
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Ehhh, my phrasing on that one was poor. What I was trying to say is
that there are a significant number of users of Rust who do not have
IDEs, and adding anything that would _require_ you to use an IDE with
Rust is a significant drawback.
If an IDE floats your boat, no complaints from me. As long
We all very much do NOT have IDEs. ;)
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> By giving good examples and analogies to foreign concepts along the way
> (books).
To be clear, that was in the source presentation, it was not my invention.
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Also posted to my blog:
http://words.steveklabnik.com/a-30-minute-introduction-to-rust
I've just kept this in Markdown even though the email is in plain
text, should still be easy on the eyes.
I recently gave a [proposal for Rust's
documentation](https://air.mozilla.org/rust-meetup-december-2013/
There is a tag on GitHub specifically for easy issues:
https://github.com/mozilla/rust/issues?labels=E-easy&milestone=13&state=open
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Would a ruby-style ok?/ok work to replace is_ok/ok?
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Yes, Oren is right here. You probably want to be using ~s rather than @s.
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Conditions don't require language support, IIRC, they're just a
library. So even if they were totally removed, you could still use
them.
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There is now a dedicated OS IRC channel and wiki page:
https://github.com/mozilla/rust/wiki/Operating-system-development
signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
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I will be giving the talk at CodeMash. Here's my RuPy slides:
http://steveklabnik.github.io/nobody_knows_rust/#/
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To be clear, '!' doesn't mean mutation, it means 'dangerous.' For example,
some methods return nil on error, and the bang version throws an excption
on error.
Sometimes, mutation is dangerous, though... ;)
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h
I gave a talk at RuPy last week, and while they accepted my CodeMash proposal,
I am giving it serious thought given the recent situation. Which I don't
want to drag this list into. But I am probably doing it.
I'll let everyone know once video is up.
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Yup, if we put this in CONTRIBUTING, it'll show up when making a new issue.
Not like anyone reads them, but increasing the chances for no cost seems good.
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We actually keep these kinds of things in the source tree:
https://github.com/mozilla/rust/tree/master/src/etc
You should submit this as a PR!
On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 6:53 PM, Steven Fuerst wrote:
> In case anyone is interested... here are some syntax highlighting regexes
> for the nedit editor
Neat! I will be in Malmö for Øredev. Feel free to get in touch
off-list if you're having a get-together around that time.
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Brian! You go to my alma mater.
Examples are always helpful, I've been slowly chugging away at adding them
myself. Extra help would be great!
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The Rust team already has a page about Go[1]. The two languages, as you
mention, aren't exactly competing.
This thread has been okay so far, but I'd advise everyone to pay close
attention to the Code of Conduct[2]: threads like this have a tendency
to devolve quickly. Bashing other languages is no
Hey Rustics,
One of my collegues started http://exercism.io, a site for people to
work on little code examples and discuss them with other people. It
started out with Ruby, then went to JavaScript, Clojure, Elixir, and
Go.
I started porting them over to HEAD Rust, as well. If anyone else
wants to
I've been slowly trying to fill out the headers to each of the
modules, so at least you know what's in them all.
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It's a really useful GitHub feature; people submit bug reports to
Rails without using the triple backticks all the time, and it's nice
that I can just go ahead and fix their formatting.
But yeah, this is bad. :/
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Excellent. This is great news!
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There is a small chance that I may come, but I cannot say for sure
until the last moment.
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I literally committed an example of using this just today:
https://github.com/mozilla/rust/pull/6841/files
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> Unique pointers/vectors are a thin wrapper around
> malloc/free.
Whoah. Now that you say it this way, I think this is a waay better
way to explain unique pointers than we currently do. I don't know why
I didn't think of it before.
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Patrick's first comment is pretty good, as well:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5712758
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I'm for this.
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Ruby is one example of a language where == is not symmetric.
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> Is it possible to build Rust on 10.8 and run it on other 10.x systems?
OSX :(
I don't know about Rust's specifics, but I have dealt with this kind
of thing before, and it's safest to do the builds on the oldest
version of OSX you support and then share upwards, rather than
downwards... it's pos
I want my coding standards to be blue!
I think this is a damn fine guide. Strong conventions are one of the
things I love most about Ruby, so I'd love to see strong conventions
in Rust, too, no matter what they are.
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