Okay here's where I think we are, and my 2 cents in the matter.
Simon wants to have a database which stores the map information which is
constructed by the decorator @combinatorial_map in order to not have it
cause any slowdowns. The question is, "how to do this?"
Here's my 2 cents of a solutio
On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 3:56 PM, Paul-Olivier Dehaye
wrote:
> Out of my confused state after a long day:
> I think I still want sage to be a " free open source alternative ", and its
> primary audience to be typical users of the Ma's. But the Ma's have indeed
> evolved since 2005. Maybe it might b
Out of my confused state after a long day:
I think I still want sage to be a " free open source alternative ", and its
primary audience to be typical users of the Ma's. But the Ma's have indeed
evolved since 2005. Maybe it might be worth, as a start, listing how they
have changed? The goal of the e
On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 3:30 PM, Paul-Olivier Dehaye
wrote:
> Again, in the big wave of emails, this one also got misdirected:
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> I am looking for people who want to help me, in one way or another, bring
> hundreds of new first time contributors to sage. If I do not find enough
>
On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 3:29 PM, Paul-Olivier Dehaye
wrote:
> In the big wave of emails exchanged today, I sent this one, by accident to
> the wrong mailing list. I recopy it below:
>
> When I went to pycon, the most important thing I learned is the importance
> of a diverse community for the deve
Again, in the big wave of emails, this one also got misdirected:
Hi everyone,
I am looking for people who want to help me, in one way or another, bring
hundreds of new first time contributors to sage. If I do not find enough
partners, I will look for other more suitable python-based projects.
Th
In the big wave of emails exchanged today, I sent this one, by accident to
the wrong mailing list. I recopy it below:
When I went to pycon, the most important thing I learned is the importance
of a diverse community for the development of python. This I learned from
the top, the board of the Pytho
I think an argument that this function is badly named is very sensible.
Maybe a better name would be "to_component_sizes". Why not just try
changing the name, and see how much work that is for the findstat group to
adapt. It might be that this does not want to be named, after all, and that
simply a
Yo !
> Currently that ticket's description is in complete
> contradiction to what you seem to describe on the mailing list (which
seems
> more sensible to me). In particular the title of the ticket is "Rename"
> while the last line says "remove".
Not my doing. When I posted my last comment on thi
At some point we will need a summary, or to use something better than
mailing lists to discuss this.
Paul
Paul-Olivier Dehaye
SNF Professor of Mathematics
University of Zurich
skype: lokami_lokami (preferred)
phone: +41 76 407 57 96
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> - Nathann is arguing that no empty methods/classes should be present.
I think he is, and add Vincent too (cf. previous email of his).
Absolutely noone wants unefficient code. If there is a clear way to
improve, let's do it. But burden is on all of us.
To be clear, I want to have this semantic
@Nathann, Simon:
There is certainly a lot of misunderstandings between all of us. Both ways.
The discussion was started because of a suggestion, turned into a ticket
written by Nathann. Currently that ticket's description is in complete
contradiction to what you seem to describe on the mailing lis
Hi Vincent
The wikipedia definition of flaming has the words "hostile" and
"insulting". I have certainly been hostile towards Nathann, and have
explicitly explained to him early on why he was wrong and why I was being
hostile. It is part of academic discourse to have heated discussions,
because we
OK, great, thanks for clarifying!
Am Mittwoch, 28. Mai 2014 20:53:36 UTC+2 schrieb Simon King:
>
> Hi Martin,
>
> On 2014-05-28, 'Martin R' via sage-combinat-devel <
> sage-comb...@googlegroups.com > wrote:
> >> E.g., it should know domain and codomain, and it should know
> >> what category it
Hello !!!
> Is he? Sorry, then this is a point where Nathann and I do not agree.
I don't even know what I think anymore. With the turn that events take, I
think I don't even need to think anymore. I think that I will think what
you think I think, it is much easier for me.
> find abstract methods
Hi Martin,
On 2014-05-28, 'Martin R' via sage-combinat-devel
wrote:
>> E.g., it should know domain and codomain, and it should know
>> what category it belongs to. I think it makes sense to let a morphism
>> know whether it is injective or surjective. However, additional
>> information that i
Hi Paul,
On 2014-05-28, Paul-Olivier Dehaye wrote:
> Two comments:
> - Nathann is arguing that no empty methods/classes should be present.
Is he? Sorry, then this is a point where Nathann and I do not agree. I
find abstract methods useful. I thought that his main point was: Don't
be intrusive!
>
> E.g., it should know domain and codomain, and it should know
> what category it belongs to. I think it makes sense to let a morphism
> know whether it is injective or surjective. However, additional
> information that is certainly interesting to researchers (e.g.: "Was first
> defined by J
Hi Vivianne,
2014-05-28 19:32 UTC+02:00, Viviane Pons :
> I think we all agree on this idea now (that the decorator should not wrap
> the method), so there is no point in keeping the argument.
>
> Still, I have asked a few questions on which I'd like you guys opinions:
>
> - what's the best way to
I think we all agree on this idea now (that the decorator should not wrap
the method), so there is no point in keeping the argument.
Still, I have asked a few questions on which I'd like you guys opinions:
- what's the best way to store this information? Nathan and Simon mentioned
database, would
Hi Paul,
2014-05-28 17:42 UTC+02:00, Paul-Olivier Dehaye
:
> I agree 100% with your summary, Simon, except that
> 1) Nathann will have to say himself whether he agrees or not;
Please at some point stop the flame.
> 2) A decision should be made whether it is valid to introduce lots of empty
> met
Yo !
> I agree 100% with your summary, Simon, except that
> 1) Nathann will have to say himself whether he agrees or not;
I think that the first time I said it was on the 20/6/2013 (one year ago):
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sage-devel/SnPfidRM9j8/u7f4X-cLlrsJ
Quote : "Well, just returning t
Hi Christian,
2014-05-28 15:21 UTC+02:00, Christian Stump :
>> The second step would be to think how to add semantic to the map. Part
>> of is already managed by the axioms/categories (for example a Morphism
> --> How do you think "more semantic" should be implemented? As a dict
> with some conven
I agree 100% with your summary, Simon, except that
1) Nathann will have to say himself whether he agrees or not;
2) A decision should be made whether it is valid to introduce lots of empty
methods and classes simply for the semantic decorators that will be added.
Paul
Paul-Olivier Dehaye
SNF Pro
Two comments:
- Nathann is arguing that no empty methods/classes should be present.
Which means to me that he doesn t see the value of semantic information in
itself
- They are not building a database. They are putting tags in the code that
allow them at runtime to build something that amounts to
Hi Paul,
On 2014-05-28, Paul-Olivier Dehaye wrote:
> Christian's point is key. The absolute hardest problem to solve is where to
> anchor semantic information so that others can contribute to it easily,
> ...
> Right now, by lack of a better place, it is put in sage.
I think you miss the point o
Hi Christian,
On 2014-05-28, Christian Stump wrote:
> But how am I then convincing
> someone knowing that information to add that information there?
Ask him/her to put @combinatorial_map in front of the method in
question. In other words, there should be no need to change the interface
for those
Christian's point is key. The absolute hardest problem to solve is where to
anchor semantic information so that others can contribute to it easily,
because his project requires lots of microcontributions (cf. Nielsen's
Reinventing Discovery)
Right now, by lack of a better place, it is put in sage.
> Ceterum censeo: Please do not put too much semantic into an attribute of
> the map. It will be a burden for the map, will cost memory, and will be
> difficult to search.
I would personally really like to get semantic information about maps
implemented in Sage. This starts with automated concaten
Hi Christian,
On 2014-05-28, Christian Stump wrote:
> --> Can I turn any method in Sage which mimics a mathematical function
> into a map in the above sense? To put it differently: Is it right that
> there are always (or almost always) parents available to use as domain
> and codomain?
Any funct
Hi!
On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 11:54:22AM +0200, Vincent Delecroix wrote:
> Hi Christian,
>
> 2014-05-28 11:32 UTC+02:00, Christian Stump :
> >> It seems that actually nobody read my initial post on that thread... so
> >> let me repeat
> >
> > I did -- but didn't really have any qualified co
Hi Vincent,
On 2014-05-28, Vincent Delecroix <20100.delecr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> A method ( = a Python function) is not a Sage Map ( = a Python object
> that model a mathematical function). I would like first to convert the
> method into a map
Which is trivially possible, see sage.categories.mo
> The second step would be to think how to add semantic to the map. Part
> of is already managed by the axioms/categories (for example a Morphism
> between GradedSets preserve the grading). But there is nothing for
> injectivity/surjectivity or more subtle properties.
Thanks for the clarification!
Vincent, I did read your email, which is very good. Thank you for posting.
Unfortunately it is too focused for my taste. I would like to solve the
generic problem of how to put in semantic information in sage first. Many
might say let's solve one problem first, but in my mind it is already three
ti
Hi Christian,
2014-05-28 11:32 UTC+02:00, Christian Stump :
>> It seems that actually nobody read my initial post on that thread... so
>> let me repeat
>
> I did -- but didn't really have any qualified contribution...
>
>> But the semantic has to be implemented at the level of maps not at the
>> l
> It seems that actually nobody read my initial post on that thread... so let
> me repeat
I did -- but didn't really have any qualified contribution...
> But the semantic has to be implemented at the level of maps not at the level
> of methods.
could you explain what you mean there (maybe usin
It seems that actually nobody read my initial post on that thread...
so let me repeat
There are two disjoint tasks:
- add semantic to Map and Morphism (Sage)
- gather the list of meaningful maps (Sage/FindStat)
First of all, most of us agree that we need more semantic at the level
of maps. Note
> Just to make this statement more precise: it will not be possible within the
> next two years if Mmarco relies on your availability for this (there is no
> blame in that statement, it's just a clarification that others might be
> willing to work on this problem).
It is not a problem -- it's
>
> --> It will not be possible (say within the next two years, except the
> unlikely event that I will a lottery without participating, and then
> spend some money to hire a professional programmer) to only query the
> statistics data, and do the computations within your own Sage.
Just to make t
Hi Mmarco,
This is a functionality many of us would want too. The question that is
unclear is how to implement it in the best way. What Nathann refers to as
"some kind of protocol to transfer the combinatorial objects" is a very
hard problem. Fortunately, many people are starting to realise that th
> Would it be possible to include the findstat functionality in sage? That is,
> i have a bunch of pairs (permutation, number), then call the function
> findtsta on them, and get a list of possible ways that the numbers can me
> computed from the permutations. All inside sage, without need to go to
Since you ask, here is a thread where you have insulted me repeatedly:
http://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/16403
Others might think I have asked for it, but that's a different question,
and we can have that debate too if you want. But if we are going to have
that debate, I would ask that you first send
> Would it be possible to include the findstat functionality in sage?
It is possible to write the code, and desirable. As the Sage is
open-source, you are also welcome to give it a try if you need the feature.
Sage already queries the OEIS, though for FindStat you will probably have
to design some
Yo !
> I find it quite difficult now to follow this thread, I see the answer to
some emails that are not even in the thread...
This is because it was sent to both sage-devel and sage-combinat. After a
while somebody anwers to only one group and mess follows.
> Anyway, I just want to answer to th
A slightly unrelated problem:
Would it be possible to include the findstat functionality in sage? That
is, i have a bunch of pairs (permutation, number), then call the function
findtsta on them, and get a list of possible ways that the numbers can me
computed from the permutations. All inside s
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