[Samba] Replication of tdbsam?

2004-08-13 Thread Jim O'Neill
Hi: Is it possible to replicate a tdbsam database between Samba PDC and BDC using the tdbrepl code from http://tdbrepl.inodes.org ? If it is possible to do this it could be very useful in smaller Samba domains to provide authentication if one domain controller went down, without getting into

Re: [Samba] Replication of tdbsam?

2004-08-13 Thread Andrew Bartlett
On Thu, 2004-08-12 at 23:04, Jim O'Neill wrote: Hi: Is it possible to replicate a tdbsam database between Samba PDC and BDC using the tdbrepl code from http://tdbrepl.inodes.org ? No. Samba relies on the fact that LDAP redirects our writes to the correct master server. Unfortunately, a

Re: [Samba] Losing network connection

2004-08-13 Thread Holger Krull
Aug 12 14:46:23 ismlnx1 kernel: lcs problems detected eth0 temporarily unavailable. Telnet/SSH access is gone, as are all Samba connections (actually they are there until they time out), and then we need to reboot in order to get our connections back. I haven't increased my debug level yet in

[Samba] smbpasswd overwrites existing displayname in LDAP entry

2004-08-13 Thread Ruud Baart
Configuration: Samba 2.2.8a with openLDAP 2.1.30 on a SeSE 8.2. server When adding a user using a ldif file we give the user a given name, say Ruud Baart. The cn and uid are the same, say 21cs12345 (a studentnumber). After adding the user to LDAP the displayname is as expected: Ruud Baart.

[Samba] smbpasswd overwrites existing displayname in LDAP entry

2004-08-13 Thread Ruud Baart
Made mistake in my question, sorry. Question should be: Configuration: Samba 2.2.8a with openLDAP 2.1.30 on a SeSE 8.2. server When adding a user using a ldif file we give the user a displayName, say Ruud Baart. The cn and uid are the same, say 21cs12345 (a studentnumber). After adding the

[Samba] Clarification on a few concepts, for a FAQ I'm writing

2004-08-13 Thread Robert Balbir-Brott
Hi All, I am currently writing a FAQ that provides an overview of available options for authentication backends which can potentially be used with Samba. Initially I was looking into these issues for my own use, but I figure that if I document my findings then it may save others some headache

[Samba] Re: moving netbios alias between machines

2004-08-13 Thread Sten Sletbak
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Ron Peterson wrote: I would like to move a netbios alias (e.g. 'testname') from one machine to another. Seems like an easy enough thing to do: remove it from machine 'a', and add it to machine 'b'. I've done this, but all's not well in netbios land. My clients

[Samba] samba Digest, Vol 20, Issue 16

2004-08-13 Thread rmoroney
I am out of the office on vacation from Tuesday August 10th until Monday August 23rd. Regards, Ray Moroney This e-mail message may contain proprietary and/or confidential information, and is intended only for the

RE: [Samba] Compatibility with NetApp DataONTAP filers?

2004-08-13 Thread Kalnichevski, Oleg
Jeremy I really appreciate your response. Please find the debug trace below. Just a few notes: I upgraded the filer's operating system from release 6.3.2 to 6.4.4R1 prior to running the test. It did not make much of a difference but I did get a different error message this time around. I am

[Samba] XP SP2 client doesn't find netbios alias servers

2004-08-13 Thread Sten Sletbak
After upgrading XP to SP2, I can no longer connect to server aliases. The client reports an error 53, The network path was not found, when doing net use * \\prof\profile. Mapping to a share on the real netbios name works fine. Anyone else seen this? Setup: samba-3.0.6.rc2 smb.conf [global]

[Samba] Not creating home directory for domain member at KDE login

2004-08-13 Thread DChristensen
I've added the pam changes that use winbind to authenticate users against the domain controller. I see all of the domain users in the graphical login, but when a user logs in who hasn't logged in before, the new home directory (/etc/DOMAIN/userid) isn't either being created or it's being created

[Samba] Your Amazon.com Inquiry

2004-08-13 Thread Amazon . com
Greetings from Amazon.com. We're sorry. You've written to an address that cannot accept incoming e-mail. But that's OK--this automated response will direct you to the right place at Amazon.com to answer your question or help you contact customer service if you need further assistance. You will

[Samba] Problem with samba and sophie

2004-08-13 Thread Glenn Robinson
Hello, I'm using Sambsa 2.28 and I've just installed Sophos anti-virus and sophie 3.04rc2. If I run sophie standalone to scan a directory/folder it all runs ok, as it also does in daemon mode. I've changed my smb.conf file to specify vfs option=/usr/lib/samba/vscan-sophos.so When I access

[Samba] Example smb.conf with unix password sync = yes

2004-08-13 Thread Ganeshram Iyer
Hello all: I have a request to all of you who have implemented Samba 3 with passdb backend = smbpasswd and have unix password sync = yes and the password synchronization is working without a hitch to please send me a copy of your smb.conf. I would really appreciate it. I have Samba running on

Re: [Samba] unix password sync not working

2004-08-13 Thread Ganeshram Iyer
Thanks Aria, I do use a non-dictionary based 8 character length password with a mix of alpha-numerics. If it got any more complicated then my users would be emailing me everyday for password change. But still no luck. Thanks for your suggestion Ganesh Aria Bamdad wrote: The only restriction

RE: [Samba] Example smb.conf with unix password sync = yes

2004-08-13 Thread Diller, Susan [OCDUS non JJ]
I have just taken over support of a site that had supposedly implemented samba using the UNIX (HP) passwd as the primary authentication. However, expiring the UNIX password does not expire their samba access. I tried to send out the info awhile ago and my message is on hold waiting for the

[Samba] Groupmappings

2004-08-13 Thread David \3oz\ Sonenberg
How do I delete unmapped entries from my groupmap. I've managed to delete incorrect entries but I still have all these unmapped entries that I can seem to delete. Here's my groupmappings [EMAIL PROTECTED] root]# net groupmap list System Operators (S-1-5-32-549) - -1 Replicators (S-1-5-32-552) -

[Samba] :) feel youthful

2004-08-13 Thread jamal cagliostro
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED], S0ma right to your door. m.eds from u-s_a 0v_ernig'ht sh,ipping http://k.l.123a2zrx.us It would be a out and out day-dreaming if you don't want to lose weight via exercise? Now Maridia is with you,you can be a day-dreamer. Again the scene changed, and

[Samba] Group creation and ldap

2004-08-13 Thread mike
I'm using samba 3.0.4 with ldapsam as a pdc. When I try to create a group, samba correctly runs the add group script, which creates an LDAP entry with objectClass set to posixGroup and gidNumber set to the gid I want to use and cn set to the group name. The next thing samba does is look for the

Re: [Samba] Re: moving netbios alias between machines

2004-08-13 Thread Ron Peterson
On Fri, Aug 13, 2004 at 10:23:36AM +, Sten Sletbak wrote: In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Ron Peterson wrote: I would like to move a netbios alias (e.g. 'testname') from one machine to another. Seems like an easy enough thing to do: remove it from machine 'a', and add it to machine 'b'.

[Samba] Template Home Dir Question

2004-08-13 Thread Tom Skeren
Yeah, I'm kinda wimping here, but it's Friday. In smb.conf I have this line: template homedir = /usr/templates/%D/%U template shell = /bin/ssh This samba server is a PDC. /usr/templates is o:g:w:rwx and acls are set u:m:g:o:rwx. When I attempt to log in on a freshly domain joined XP client I

[Samba] LDAP backend and User Manager for Domains

2004-08-13 Thread Data Control Systems - Mike Elkevizth
passwd chat = *new*password* %n\n *new*password* %n\n *successfully* passwd program = /usr/sbin/smbldap-passwd -o %u I also don't quite understand the ldap passwd sync option. Why should I use the smbldap-tools scripts and not the ldap passwd sync option, does it not work properly? Thanks for

[Samba] Risposta Automatica

2004-08-13 Thread helpredirect
Gentile utente, innanzitutto grazie per averci contattato. Per il tipo di problematica cui fai riferimento nella tua email, ti ricordiamo che il Servizio Clienti di superEva puo' essere contattato SOLO attraverso l'apposito modulo che trovi sulle pagine dell'help:

Re: [Samba] Can't locate Net/LDAP.pm in @INC

2004-08-13 Thread Buchan Milne
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 | Subject: | Re: [Samba] Can't locate Net/LDAP.pm in @INC | From: | Paul Gienger [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Date: | Thu, 12 Aug 2004 14:36:34 -0500 | To: | Sp0oKeR Labs [EMAIL PROTECTED] | CC: | [EMAIL PROTECTED], Pari [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | Sp0oKeR Labs

Re: [Samba] Compatibility with NetApp DataONTAP filers?

2004-08-13 Thread Jeremy Allison
On Fri, Aug 13, 2004 at 01:24:40PM +0100, Kalnichevski, Oleg wrote: Jeremy I really appreciate your response. Please find the debug trace below. Just a few notes: I upgraded the filer's operating system from release 6.3.2 to 6.4.4R1 prior to running the test. It did not make much of a

Re: [Samba] Samba 3 and mounting NT share on Linux box

2004-08-13 Thread jamaguy
Hello again, Apologies for asking again, but does anyone have an idea where I might find with this? I've tried looking at the Samba How-To, the Samba list archives, Google, a couple Perens Series books, etc, haven't found the answer. Perhaps I am asking the question in the wrong way, i.e.

RE: [Samba] Compatibility with NetApp DataONTAP filers?

2004-08-13 Thread Kalnichevski, Oleg
Jeremy, Would it be a big deal for you to find out the exact release version of the NetApp software you could successfully run smbclient against? Oleg -Original Message- From: Jeremy Allison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Fri 8/13/2004 19:58 To: Kalnichevski, Oleg Cc:

[Samba] Does samba support windows RIS

2004-08-13 Thread Louis Garcia
Remote Installation Services (RIS) for Windows 2000 allows administrators to distribute an Riprep based drive image of a customized Windows 2000 installations to remote clients on a network. In addition, the RIP client uses PXE/DHCPbased remote boot technology to remotely install the OS on the

[Samba] help with LDAP and Samba

2004-08-13 Thread Andre Cameron
Hello Everyone, I am having some trouble and would greatly appreciate some assistance. I apologize if this has been on the list before I am however down to two hours before due date. I have use samba before with no problems but this is the first time I have had to do it with LDAP. The

Re: [Samba] Windows XP SP2 (Official) and Samba 3

2004-08-13 Thread Thomas Bork
Gerald (Jerry) Carter schrieb: Are you sure there are no panics in the smbd log ? You may be able to still print. test2 # smbcontrol smbd debug 3 [...] Now printing a website with Internet Explorer. Then: test2 # cat /var/log/log.smbd | grep srv_spoolss_nt [2004/08/13 21:36:29, 3]

[Samba] Winbind and Kerberos problem

2004-08-13 Thread Hugh Martin
When I try to use kerberos with winbind to authenticate with a userid stored in Active Directory (AD), authentication fails because the principal name that kerberos is trying to use is the 'extended' id used by winbind. In other words, suppose my domain name is 'mydomain', the userid in AD is

[Samba] Why both LMPass and NTPass: Migration Issue

2004-08-13 Thread Kang Sun
Greetings! I am back to work the vampire migration issues. It looks like the computers sambaNTPasswords where migrated correctly but the sambaLMPasswords were not! And it seems to be Windows 2000 system only uses sambaNTPasswords while Windows XP systems using more than

Re: [Samba] Why both LMPass and NTPass: Migration Issue

2004-08-13 Thread Andrew Bartlett
On Fri, 2004-08-13 at 13:41, Kang Sun wrote: Greetings! I am back to work the vampire migration issues. It looks like the computers sambaNTPasswords where migrated correctly but the sambaLMPasswords were not! And it seems to be Windows 2000 system only uses

[Samba] Re: Problems with Mac files - Any resolution?

2004-08-13 Thread Mark Nehemiah
Hi Ashley, I don't think I have an answer for you, but I had a similar experience. We had a 2000 server set up that was sharing files to macs. I decided to rsync back it up to a more normal environment(*nix). I had all kinds of problems. I tried mounting the share via smb as you are

[Samba] ACL Windows GUI to set permissions?

2004-08-13 Thread Rick Ruth
I am implementing Samba 3.05 (Suse Pro 8.2 Reiser File System) member server as a file server on a Windows NT4 network with one NT server (PDC). I am currently using WINS for name resolution on the network. Shortly after adding the Samba member server, I will upgrade NT 4.0 server to

Re: [Samba] Re: Winbind sutff (Squid and Windows 2003)

2004-08-13 Thread Rivanor Soares
Well, there's no nscd stuff in my system. :/ And it used to work without nscd. Yes. I restarted my computer. And after that, I couldn't use it (squid + auth) anymore. On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 10:38:51 +0100, Oliver Wickham [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: nscd is not really part of samba, its the name

Re: [Samba] Winbind sutff (Squid and Windows 2003)

2004-08-13 Thread Rivanor Soares
Well, good tip... But I just couldn't find the $LOCKDIR/winbindd_privilaged/pipe in my system :/ Where's the lock dir? I found this one: /tmp/.winbind/pipe= At /var/lock i just found these two childs: winbindd_cache.tdb and winbindd_idmap.tdb []'s On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 17:02:34 +1000, [EMAIL

[Samba] Upgrade question

2004-08-13 Thread Brad Sagowitz
I'm trying to upgrade from Samba 2.27 to 3.0.6rc2-1 The os is Redhat 7.3 with XFS The RPM was compiled for a src RPM this is what I get: rpm -Uvh samba-3.0.6rc2-1.i386.rpm error: failed dependencies: CC is needed by samba-3.0.6rc2-1 /usr/bin/perl5 is needed by

[Samba] Problem when running samba on a network segment other than that of the clients

2004-08-13 Thread liquid
Hi all, My first post here... hopefully I can find the solution to the problem plaguing me since Wednesday. I have a somewhat more complex than usual home network: I have a router with a static IP, and it has two additional nics, each having a hub attached to them for multiple machines.

Re: [Samba] Problem when running samba on a network segment other than that of the clients

2004-08-13 Thread Mat Allgood
Well, without a smb.conf snippit it makes it hard to tell anything. First instinct is to ask if you have setup WINS? Thats the easy way to do it. If not, maybe that information with give you a kick in the right direction. mallgood On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 20:20:06 -0400, liquid [EMAIL PROTECTED]

[Samba] Samba 2.2.11 Available for Download

2004-08-13 Thread Gerald (Jerry) Carter
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 This is the latest stable release of the Samba 2.2 code base. Please note that the Samba 2.2 code tree will reach its End-Of-Life on October 1, 2004. Administrators of existing Samba 2.2 installations are encouraged to upgrade to the latest Samba

[Samba] Re: XP SP2 client doesn't find netbios alias servers

2004-08-13 Thread Michael Lueck
Sten Sletbak wrote: After upgrading XP to SP2, I can no longer connect to server aliases. snip Mapping to a share on the real netbios name works fine. I've seen that against real Win2K servers also using AD DNS. I always thought it was a M$ feature that you had to net use to either the real

[Samba] My lack of understanding of idmap

2004-08-13 Thread Alexander E. Patrakov
Hello, I don't completely understand the BDC setup as described in the Chapter 6 of The Official Samba-3 HOWTO and Reference Guide. The reason is that the example setup uses LDAP idmap backend. For simplicity, the solution is discussed when both PDC and BDC use a Single Central LDAP Server. (I

[Samba] Re: help with LDAP and Samba

2004-08-13 Thread Alexander E. Patrakov
Andre Cameron wrote: Hello Everyone, I am having some trouble and would greatly appreciate some assistance. I apologize if this has been on the list before I am however down to two hours before due date. I have use samba before with no problems but this is the first time I have had to do it

svn commit: samba r1803 - branches/SAMBA_4_0/source/libcli/ldap

2004-08-13 Thread metze
Author: metze Date: 2004-08-13 06:27:02 + (Fri, 13 Aug 2004) New Revision: 1803 WebSVN: http://websvn.samba.org/websvn/changeset.php?rep=sambapath=/rev=1803nolog=1 Log: more progress on sasl binds, but decoding the response still fails metze Modified:

svn commit: samba r1804 - branches/SAMBA_4_0/source/libcli/ldap

2004-08-13 Thread metze
Author: metze Date: 2004-08-13 07:04:45 + (Fri, 13 Aug 2004) New Revision: 1804 WebSVN: http://websvn.samba.org/websvn/changeset.php?rep=sambapath=/rev=1804nolog=1 Log: get a bit closer to a sasl bind metze Modified: branches/SAMBA_4_0/source/libcli/ldap/ldap.c Changeset: Modified:

svn commit: samba r1805 - in branches/SAMBA_4_0/source: libcli/ldap torture/ldap

2004-08-13 Thread metze
Author: metze Date: 2004-08-13 07:10:46 + (Fri, 13 Aug 2004) New Revision: 1805 WebSVN: http://websvn.samba.org/websvn/changeset.php?rep=sambapath=/branches/SAMBA_4_0/sourcerev=1805nolog=1 Log: ...I just forgot to say that the sasl bind actually works now:-) metze Modified:

svn commit: samba-web r252 - trunk/news/style

2004-08-13 Thread deryck
Author: deryck Date: 2004-08-13 11:56:49 + (Fri, 13 Aug 2004) New Revision: 252 WebSVN: http://websvn.samba.org/websvn/changeset.php?rep=samba-webpath=/rev=252nolog=1 Log: Fix overlap problem in right-hand column. --deryck Modified: trunk/news/style/news.css Changeset: Modified:

svn commit: samba r1806 - trunk/source/libsmb

2004-08-13 Thread mimir
Author: mimir Date: 2004-08-13 17:36:24 + (Fri, 13 Aug 2004) New Revision: 1806 WebSVN: http://websvn.samba.org/websvn/changeset.php?rep=sambapath=/rev=1806nolog=1 Log: Begin of trust passwords migration code. Not tested yet, but it doesn't seem to break the build at least. rafal Modified:

svn commit: samba r1807 - in trunk/source: include passdb

2004-08-13 Thread mimir
Author: mimir Date: 2004-08-13 17:38:03 + (Fri, 13 Aug 2004) New Revision: 1807 WebSVN: http://websvn.samba.org/websvn/changeset.php?rep=sambapath=/trunk/sourcerev=1807nolog=1 Log: Part of trust passwords migration code. Function checking whether it's already been done and at once can mark it

svn commit: samba r1808 - trunk/examples/LDAP

2004-08-13 Thread jra
Author: jra Date: 2004-08-13 17:58:23 + (Fri, 13 Aug 2004) New Revision: 1808 WebSVN: http://websvn.samba.org/websvn/changeset.php?rep=sambapath=/rev=1808nolog=1 Log: Patch from Richard Renard [EMAIL PROTECTED] to store logon hours attributes in an LDAP database. Jeremy. Modified:

svn commit: samba r1809 - branches/SAMBA_3_0/examples/LDAP

2004-08-13 Thread jra
Author: jra Date: 2004-08-13 17:58:27 + (Fri, 13 Aug 2004) New Revision: 1809 WebSVN: http://websvn.samba.org/websvn/changeset.php?rep=sambapath=/rev=1809nolog=1 Log: Patch from Richard Renard [EMAIL PROTECTED] to store logon hours attributes in an LDAP database. Jeremy. Modified:

svn commit: samba r1811 - in trunk/source: include lib passdb

2004-08-13 Thread jra
Author: jra Date: 2004-08-13 18:03:04 + (Fri, 13 Aug 2004) New Revision: 1811 WebSVN: http://websvn.samba.org/websvn/changeset.php?rep=sambapath=/trunk/sourcerev=1811nolog=1 Log: Patch from Richard Renard [EMAIL PROTECTED] to store logon hours attributes in an LDAP database. Jeremy.

svn commit: samba r1812 - branches/SAMBA_3_0/source/utils

2004-08-13 Thread jra
Author: jra Date: 2004-08-13 19:56:19 + (Fri, 13 Aug 2004) New Revision: 1812 WebSVN: http://websvn.samba.org/websvn/changeset.php?rep=sambapath=/rev=1812nolog=1 Log: Fix from Richard Renard [EMAIL PROTECTED] to be able to reset a users logon hours restrictions. Jeremy. Modified:

svn commit: samba r1813 - trunk/source/libsmb

2004-08-13 Thread mimir
Author: mimir Date: 2004-08-13 22:01:38 + (Fri, 13 Aug 2004) New Revision: 1813 WebSVN: http://websvn.samba.org/websvn/changeset.php?rep=sambapath=/rev=1813nolog=1 Log: Forgot to put pdb_context and actually call proper function to add the password to the pdb backend. rafal Modified:

svn commit: samba-web r253 - trunk/history

2004-08-13 Thread jerry
Author: jerry Date: 2004-08-14 01:02:27 + (Sat, 14 Aug 2004) New Revision: 253 WebSVN: http://websvn.samba.org/websvn/changeset.php?rep=samba-webpath=/rev=253nolog=1 Log: adding 2.2.11 release notes Added: trunk/history/samba-2.2.11.html Changeset: Sorry the patch is to large, please use

svn commit: samba r1814 - in branches/SAMBA_4_0/source/rpc_server: epmapper lsa

2004-08-13 Thread vlendec
Author: vlendec Date: 2004-08-14 01:11:34 + (Sat, 14 Aug 2004) New Revision: 1814 WebSVN: http://websvn.samba.org/websvn/changeset.php?rep=sambapath=/branches/SAMBA_4_0/source/rpc_serverrev=1814nolog=1 Log: Fix the build. Tridge, in rpc_epmapper.c there's a whole bunch of return

svn commit: samba r1815 - branches/SAMBA_4_0/source/build/pidl

2004-08-13 Thread tpot
Author: tpot Date: 2004-08-14 01:26:11 + (Sat, 14 Aug 2004) New Revision: 1815 WebSVN: http://websvn.samba.org/websvn/changeset.php?rep=sambapath=/rev=1815nolog=1 Log: Update parser for recent changes to perl parser. Modified: branches/SAMBA_4_0/source/build/pidl/eparser.pm Changeset:

svn commit: samba r1816 - in branches/SAMBA_4_0/source: . libnet

2004-08-13 Thread metze
Author: metze Date: 2004-08-14 03:32:42 + (Sat, 14 Aug 2004) New Revision: 1816 WebSVN: http://websvn.samba.org/websvn/changeset.php?rep=sambapath=/branches/SAMBA_4_0/sourcerev=1816nolog=1 Log: here's the initial idea of libnet metze Added: branches/SAMBA_4_0/source/libnet/

svn commit: samba-web r254 - in trunk: . news news/releases news/style

2004-08-13 Thread deryck
Author: deryck Date: 2004-08-14 05:14:41 + (Sat, 14 Aug 2004) New Revision: 254 WebSVN: http://websvn.samba.org/websvn/changeset.php?rep=samba-webpath=/trunkrev=254nolog=1 Log: Add 2.2.11 release announcement to /samba/ and to /news/. Update current stable 2.2.x release link in right-column

svn commit: samba r1818 - in branches/SAMBA_4_0/source: librpc/idl rpc_server/epmapper torture/rpc

2004-08-13 Thread tridge
Author: tridge Date: 2004-08-14 05:53:53 + (Sat, 14 Aug 2004) New Revision: 1818 WebSVN: http://websvn.samba.org/websvn/changeset.php?rep=sambapath=/branches/SAMBA_4_0/sourcerev=1818nolog=1 Log: _really_ fixed epmapper this time, it was using more than one old rpc interface method. Modified:

svn commit: samba r1819 - in branches/SAMBA_4_0/source: libcli/raw param smb_server

2004-08-13 Thread tridge
Author: tridge Date: 2004-08-14 05:56:12 + (Sat, 14 Aug 2004) New Revision: 1819 WebSVN: http://websvn.samba.org/websvn/changeset.php?rep=sambapath=/branches/SAMBA_4_0/sourcerev=1819nolog=1 Log: changed smb ports to be a LIST parameter type in loadparm (its a classic case for a list)

svn commit: samba r1820 - in branches/SAMBA_4_0/source: lib torture/raw

2004-08-13 Thread tridge
Author: tridge Date: 2004-08-14 05:57:43 + (Sat, 14 Aug 2004) New Revision: 1820 WebSVN: http://websvn.samba.org/websvn/changeset.php?rep=sambapath=/branches/SAMBA_4_0/sourcerev=1820nolog=1 Log: added a strcmp_safe() that handles NULL pointers. Needed for the search torture test, as some