Re: [sidr] Controlling routing (was Re: WG Chair Affiliation)

2009-10-07 Thread Jared Mauch
On Oct 7, 2009, at 12:47 PM, Robert Kisteleki wrote: Terry, see below... Terry manderson wrote: On 06/10/2009, at 11:28 PM, Stephen Kent wrote: So legitimate transfers will breed duplicates? My recollection of that discussion that there would be timing in place that certificate

Re: [sidr] Controlling routing (was Re: WG Chair Affiliation)

2009-10-07 Thread Danny McPherson
On Oct 7, 2009, at 10:47 AM, Robert Kisteleki wrote: Suppose you're ISP1, and want to sell some part of your clients to ISP2 (this happens: mergers, splits, you name it). In other words, you want to transfer a live, routed and used chunk of space to another party. How would you execute

Re: [sidr] Controlling routing (was Re: WG Chair Affiliation)

2009-10-07 Thread Terry Manderson
Hi Robert, On 8/10/09 2:47 AM, Robert Kisteleki rob...@ripe.net wrote: [..] so two organisations, at some point in time, will have the ability to issue valid and conflicting statements. They have that ability today, it is being used and it's useful. Would you want to take that ability

Re: [sidr] Controlling routing (was Re: WG Chair Affiliation)

2009-10-07 Thread Terry Manderson
On 8/10/09 3:13 AM, Danny McPherson da...@tcb.net wrote: On Oct 7, 2009, at 10:47 AM, Robert Kisteleki wrote: Suppose you're ISP1, and want to sell some part of your clients to ISP2 (this happens: mergers, splits, you name it). In other words, you want to transfer a live, routed and

Re: [sidr] Controlling routing (was Re: WG Chair Affiliation)

2009-10-07 Thread Danny McPherson
On Oct 7, 2009, at 6:56 PM, Terry Manderson wrote: My concern isn't about collision/overlap of ROAs at the bottom of the RPKI hierarchy, that seems perfectly reasonably to me if the operator so chooses. But what decision should the relying party make? in other words how does the relying

Re: [sidr] Controlling routing (was Re: WG Chair Affiliation)

2009-10-07 Thread Terry Manderson
On 8/10/09 11:14 AM, Danny McPherson da...@tcb.net wrote: But what decision should the relying party make? in other words how does the relying party know that collision was intentional? I'd think it wouldn't matter with the RP, if the ROAs are there then accept those prefixes from

Re: [sidr] Controlling routing (was Re: WG Chair Affiliation)

2009-10-07 Thread Danny McPherson
On Oct 7, 2009, at 6:41 PM, Terry Manderson wrote: Depending on which certificate the Relying Party believes, they might reject (based on current WG interpretation of a ROA) the other valid announcements at their router. (at least that is how I'm reading it - please correct me if

Re: [sidr] Controlling routing (was Re: WG Chair Affiliation)

2009-10-07 Thread Jared Mauch
On Oct 7, 2009, at 8:46 PM, Terry Manderson wrote: On 8/10/09 3:04 AM, Jared Mauch ja...@puck.nether.net wrote: Operators will always opt to keep their network alive, anything that risks keeping the network operational will have a hard time finding a place in networks. I can think of other

Re: [sidr] Controlling routing (was Re: WG Chair Affiliation)

2009-10-07 Thread Danny McPherson
On Oct 7, 2009, at 7:23 PM, Terry Manderson wrote: Sorry, my response was poorly worded. My position is that we probably shouldn't allow a system into play that can produce a fully ambiguous result. Hrmm.. You mean like the current routing system - where at this moment I see ~2086 (same

Re: [sidr] Controlling routing (was Re: WG Chair Affiliation)

2009-10-07 Thread Danny McPherson
On Oct 7, 2009, at 7:53 PM, Terry Manderson wrote: The issue at hand is two different owners of a resource being able to say different things about that resource. But that's not what I said - I said to make this work you'd have the EE (owner) issue two ROAs, one for each origin - there's

Re: [sidr] Controlling routing (was Re: WG Chair Affiliation)

2009-10-07 Thread Danny McPherson
On Oct 7, 2009, at 8:14 PM, Terry Manderson wrote: But that's not what I said - I said to make this work you'd have the EE (owner) issue two ROAs, one for each origin - yes. but predicated on one owner and not two. I think we are at the same place :-) Yep, and one minor clarification