Re: [silk] Pakistan at 60 from Rafiq Dossani

2007-09-05 Thread Udhay Shankar N
Indrajit Gupta wrote: [ on 05:57 AM 9/5/2007 ] A note of warning: what they didn't finally manage to engineer out, unfortunately, was the divide between oligarch and democrat. The US scuppered itself in about 300 years; the Athenians, not having the benefit of previous example, took rather l

Re: [silk] Pakistan at 60 from Rafiq Dossani

2007-09-04 Thread Biju Chacko
On 9/5/07, Suresh Ramasubramanian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Charles Haynes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On 9/5/07, Indrajit Gupta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> - > >> Once upon a time there was 1 GB storage in your inbox. Click here > >> for happy ending. > >

Re: [silk] Pakistan at 60 from Rafiq Dossani

2007-09-04 Thread Suresh Ramasubramanian
Charles Haynes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On 9/5/07, Indrajit Gupta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: - Once upon a time there was 1 GB storage in your inbox. Click here for happy ending. This made me laugh. Are you aware of what, in current massage parlor slang, a ma

Re: [silk] Pakistan at 60 from Rafiq Dossani

2007-09-04 Thread Gautam John
On 9/5/07, Charles Haynes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > This made me laugh. Are you aware of what, in current massage parlor > slang, a massage with "a happy ending" is? More Yahoo's fault than Indrajit's, what? But still, funny indeed.

Re: [silk] Pakistan at 60 from Rafiq Dossani

2007-09-04 Thread Charles Haynes
On 9/5/07, Indrajit Gupta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > - > Once upon a time there was 1 GB storage in your inbox. Click here for happy > ending. This made me laugh. Are you aware of what, in current massage parlor slang, a massage with "a happy ending" is? Click

Re: [silk] Pakistan at 60 from Rafiq Dossani

2007-09-04 Thread Indrajit Gupta
It might amuse you, Shiv, to read up on the Athenian political organisation in the 5th century BC. In view of what you've written here. You might find that your thoughts are in the same grooves as the Athenian political reformers, when they sought, rather successfully, one might add, to e

Re: [silk] Pakistan at 60 from Rafiq Dossani

2007-08-26 Thread Biju Chacko
On 8/27/07, shiv sastry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Perhaps top-down imposition of something or the other is is never going to > work. Neither is the removal of caste barriers near the top (by mixing and > churning), because caste "layers" exist independently at every depth. Mixing > at the top ha

Re: [silk] Pakistan at 60 from Rafiq Dossani

2007-08-26 Thread shiv sastry
On Sunday 26 Aug 2007 11:21 pm, Ingrid wrote: > > My experience ''at the grassroots" certainly confirms that caste (and > > gender) biases are a significant barrier to development. I've just > > returned from southern Tamil Nadu where caste atrocities are a daily > > affair. Have witnessed much the

Re: [silk] Pakistan at 60 from Rafiq Dossani

2007-08-26 Thread Ingrid
On 8/26/07, shiv sastry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Saturday 25 Aug 2007 11:39 pm, Ingrid wrote: > > What is it you think they are doing differently? The standard excuse I > hear > > quoted is that their relatively small size makes it easier. But no > Indian > > state, even the smallest, can

Re: [silk] Pakistan at 60 from Rafiq Dossani

2007-08-25 Thread shiv sastry
On Saturday 25 Aug 2007 11:39 pm, Ingrid wrote: > What is it you think they are doing differently? The standard excuse I hear > quoted is that their relatively small size makes it easier. But no Indian > state, even the smallest, can claim to have done as well. Interesting question that will spur

Re: [silk] Pakistan at 60 from Rafiq Dossani

2007-08-25 Thread Ingrid
On 8/25/07, shiv sastry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Classic parameters that are considered "good" seem to be low infant and > maternal mortality, high literacy, high per capita income, low GINI > coefficient, low unemployment rates and a whole lot of similar parameters > that can be dug up in an

Re: [silk] Pakistan at 60 from Rafiq Dossani

2007-08-25 Thread shiv sastry
On Thursday 23 Aug 2007 3:53 pm, ashok _ wrote: > I wonder if you have seen the Jinnah biopic movie (with christoper "count > dracula" lee as Jinnah.) ? > While the Gandhi film essentially focuses on Gandhi vs the British, the > Jinnah film is about a freedom movement where the struggle is on t

Re: [silk] Pakistan at 60 from Rafiq Dossani

2007-08-25 Thread shiv sastry
On Saturday 25 Aug 2007 3:25 pm, Indrajit Gupta wrote: > Would it be unfair to postulate China, and would that indicate that > vis-a-vis China, we ourselves have a similar nation-wide inferiority > complex? >   I'm obviously not suggesting that either there is a good foundation for > such a comple

Re: [silk] Pakistan at 60 from Rafiq Dossani

2007-08-25 Thread Indrajit Gupta
Point taken, Shiv; it's lazy and all too convenient to lapse into comparisons which are really not required, given an absence of a nation-wide inferiority complex of mammoth proportions. Taking it one step further, except on occasions which lend themselves to predictable jerks of the acad

Re: [silk] Pakistan at 60 from Rafiq Dossani

2007-08-23 Thread shiv sastry
On Thursday 23 Aug 2007 8:27 pm, shiv sastry wrote: > I believe this continuous clubbing and > comparison with India either causes needless insecurity, or a false sense > of security for Pakistanis depending on what parameter is being compared. Posting a convenient example of an article that illus

Re: [silk] Pakistan at 60 from Rafiq Dossani

2007-08-23 Thread shiv sastry
As always - my views are my own. My specific answer to IG's question "Wouldn't ANY Indian author asked to write on Pakistan at 60 tend to compare Pakistan with his own country? Note the operative word "any" in the question. I believe that if I am asked to write about Pakistan, i would write abo

Re: [silk] Pakistan at 60 from Rafiq Dossani

2007-08-23 Thread ashok _
On 8/23/07, shiv sastry wrote: > > On Thursday 23 Aug 2007 6:21 am, Indrajit Gupta wrote: > > Wouldn't any Indian author asked to write on Pakistan at 60 tend to > compare > > Pakistan with his own country? > > No IG. Not necessarily. At least, I don't think so. > > shiv I think it would be qui

Re: [silk] Pakistan at 60 from Rafiq Dossani

2007-08-23 Thread shiv sastry
On Thursday 23 Aug 2007 6:21 am, Indrajit Gupta wrote: > Wouldn't any Indian author asked to write on Pakistan at 60 tend to compare > Pakistan with his own country? No IG. Not necessarily. At least, I don't think so. shiv

Re: [silk] Pakistan at 60 from Rafiq Dossani

2007-08-22 Thread Indrajit Gupta
Shiv, The Oflag only allows occasional access to Silk and others, so I read this a few minutes ago. Aren't you complicating things a bit? Wouldn't any Indian author asked to write on Pakistan at 60 tend to compare Pakistan with his own country? Why would Rafiq be an exception? shiv

Re: [silk] Pakistan at 60 from Rafiq Dossani

2007-08-19 Thread shiv sastry
On Thursday 16 Aug 2007 11:03 pm, Udhay Shankar N wrote: > >http://www.mercurynews.com/opinion/ci_6637082 Here is an article from the Financial Times, which attempts to list the equal-equal between India and Pakistan. The author's name is not mentioned but I am wiling to bet Rs 1000 to none tha

Re: [silk] Pakistan at 60 from Rafiq Dossani

2007-08-17 Thread shiv sastry
On Friday 17 Aug 2007 10:09 am, Udhay Shankar N wrote: > What I was hoping to see were your thoughts on this: > "This suggests that Pakistan is only a crucial freedom step away from > success." The statement that immediately precedes this is >Pakistan, meanwhile, has moved slowly on freedom. The

Re: [silk] Pakistan at 60 from Rafiq Dossani

2007-08-16 Thread Udhay Shankar N
[whoops, clicked 'send' too early last time] shiv sastry wrote: [ on 06:46 AM 8/17/2007 ] Sadly (and I insert the word "sadly" at the start only because you know the author) the article suffers from "India-itis". Everything is compared with India. If India does worse it means "good for Pakista

Re: [silk] Pakistan at 60 from Rafiq Dossani

2007-08-16 Thread Udhay Shankar N
shiv sastry wrote: [ on 06:46 AM 8/17/2007 ] Sadly (and I insert the word "sadly" at the start only because you know the author) the article suffers from "India-itis". Everything is compared with India. If India does worse it means "good for Pakistan", if India does better it - the difference i

Re: [silk] Pakistan at 60 from Rafiq Dossani

2007-08-16 Thread shiv sastry
On Thursday 16 Aug 2007 11:03 pm, Udhay Shankar N wrote: > Forwarded from another list. I met Dr Dossani a few years ago when he > was in India to study outsourcing [1] and he seems a smart cookie. I > find the last paragraph of this article the most provocative -- "This > suggests that Pakistan is

[silk] Pakistan at 60 from Rafiq Dossani

2007-08-16 Thread Udhay Shankar N
Forwarded from another list. I met Dr Dossani a few years ago when he was in India to study outsourcing [1] and he seems a smart cookie. I find the last paragraph of this article the most provocative -- "This suggests that Pakistan is only a crucial freedom step away from success." Comments?