Re: [Sursound] Question about plane waves, and the precedence effect

2012-09-30 Thread Paul Hodges
--On 30 September 2012 00:16 +0100 Augustine Leudar augustineleu...@gmail.com wrote: all he meteres read is pressure /gain from respective summed/deducted capsules The directional capsules of the tetrahedral mic are responding to a combination of pressure and velocity - that's how

Re: [Sursound] Question about plane waves, and the precedence effect

2012-09-29 Thread Jörn Nettingsmeier
On 09/29/2012 01:06 AM, Augustine Leudar wrote: that is . weird. Im sure someone will have to remind me - memories of constructing my ambisonic microphone and encoder are already fading but isnt the omni W the sum of the XY and Z +/- (each with a reduced gain) ? no. in the case of a

Re: [Sursound] Question about plane waves, and the precedence effect

2012-09-29 Thread Fons Adriaensen
On Sat, Sep 29, 2012 at 11:10:11PM +0200, Jörn Nettingsmeier wrote: On 09/29/2012 01:06 AM, Augustine Leudar wrote: that is . weird. Im sure someone will have to remind me - memories of constructing my ambisonic microphone and encoder are already fading but isnt the omni W the sum of the

Re: [Sursound] Question about plane waves, and the precedence effect

2012-09-29 Thread Paul Hodges
--On 29 September 2012 23:08 +0100 Augustine Leudar augustineleu...@gmail.com wrote: so how would it occur that Richard would have activity registering on his x,y, and z meters but not the w one ? Because there was no significant pressure signal, only a velocity one. He did say this was an

Re: [Sursound] Question about plane waves, and the precedence effect

2012-09-29 Thread Augustine Leudar
my understanding (which Im the first to admit is limited) was that the W gave the position on the xyz axis - ie if the x,y, or z was in or out of phase with the w it would give you info on which side of the fig of 8 the signal was coming from and thus location on that axis. The way I built my

Re: [Sursound] Question about plane waves, and the precedence effect

2012-09-28 Thread Richard Lee
except its not quite the same effect. If I hear a plan(ish) wave in nature such as in thunder or a very distant giant waterfall Distant thunder is often an extreme case of Proximity effect. Velocity components are boosted at LF compared omni components. You encounter this if you are using

Re: [Sursound] Question about plane waves, and the precedence effect

2012-09-24 Thread Dave Malham
Well, well, someone has actually started to put together a Hyper Dense Transducer Array Dave On 23/09/2012 09:35, Augustine Leudar wrote: by the way have any of you seen this :

Re: [Sursound] Question about plane waves, and the precedence effect

2012-09-24 Thread Dave Malham
On 23/09/2012 11:19, Fons Adriaensen wrote: On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 09:31:30AM +0100, Augustine Leudar wrote: except its not quite the same effect. If I hear a plan(ish) wave in nature such as in thunder or a very distant giant waterfall I doubt very much if either would be a plane wave.

Re: [Sursound] Question about plane waves, and the precedence effect

2012-09-23 Thread Helmut Oellers
Hi Augustine, the parallel wave front virtually originate from startimg point far away behind the loudspeaker array. In the same manner as the moon is following you, if you are walking across the street at nigth, the sound source follows your migration. Besides, a loudspeaker line cannot

Re: [Sursound] Question about plane waves, and the precedence effect

2012-09-23 Thread Augustine Leudar
Hmmm, except its not quite the same effect. If I hear a plan(ish) wave in nature such as in thunder or a very distant giant waterfall - it doesnt seem to follow me speaker by speaker a I walk in a 15m line parallel to it (as it does with my wfs array) - with my wfs rig its as if the sound is

Re: [Sursound] Question about plane waves, and the precedence effect

2012-09-23 Thread Augustine Leudar
by the way have any of you seen this : http://www.syntheticwave.de/HOLOPLOT_Loudspeaker_Modules.htmhttps://ex2k7.qub.ac.uk/OWA/redir.aspx?C=jMjb6VGWPE2C03uwInbI6NzL1xn6bM9IpE_V4FFPuYLdaVy2otKYLbtqGTJydNHU9qsGKXoXCo8.URL=http%3a%2f%2fwww.syntheticwave.de%2fHOLOPLOT_Loudspeaker_Modules.htm far

Re: [Sursound] Question about plane waves, and the precedence effect

2012-09-23 Thread Fons Adriaensen
On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 09:31:30AM +0100, Augustine Leudar wrote: except its not quite the same effect. If I hear a plan(ish) wave in nature such as in thunder or a very distant giant waterfall I doubt very much if either would be a plane wave. with my wfs rig its as if the sound is staying

Re: [Sursound] Question about plane waves, and the precedence effect

2012-09-23 Thread Martin Leese
Augustine Leudar wrote: by the way have any of you seen this :

Re: [Sursound] Question about plane waves, and the precedence effect

2012-09-22 Thread Sampo Syreeni
On 2012-09-12, Fons Adriaensen wrote: It will be the nearest speaker only if the direction of the source is orthogonal to the line array. Granted. But you'll have to grant that there is then a direction incident to the rig where the source still seems to follow you from a direction not even

Re: [Sursound] Question about plane waves, and the precedence effect

2012-09-22 Thread Sampo Syreeni
On 2012-09-12, Augustine Leudar wrote: thanks Fons Adding to Fons, who is pretty much always on the mark... another question is - is our auditory system able to take account of the curvature of a wavefront to estimate the distance of a source or does it only use other cues such as the

Re: [Sursound] Question about plane waves, and the precedence effect

2012-09-14 Thread Dave Malham
Even with expensive speakers, if you are too close to the array the closest speaker will be louder than those further away as it no longer approximates at plane wave source, so will always tend to pop out at you. Dave On 12/09/2012 14:58, jim moses wrote: i've heard similar results,

[Sursound] Question about plane waves, and the precedence effect

2012-09-12 Thread Augustine Leudar
Hi all, This is a question for those with knowledge of WFS. One of the properties of plane waves propagated with a single line array on a Wavefield synthesis system is that as you walk down the array the sound follows you appearing to emanate from the nearest loudspeaker . I was wondering if this

Re: [Sursound] Question about plane waves, and the precedence effect

2012-09-12 Thread Fons Adriaensen
On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 01:17:23PM +0100, Augustine Leudar wrote: This is a question for those with knowledge of WFS. One of the properties of plane waves propagated with a single line array on a Wavefield synthesis system is that as you walk down the array the sound follows you appearing to

Re: [Sursound] Question about plane waves, and the precedence effect

2012-09-12 Thread Augustine Leudar
hmm - thats weird because I get this effect even if the plane wave isnt orthogonal to the array - perhaps something is configured wrongly. On 12/09/2012, Fons Adriaensen f...@linuxaudio.org wrote: On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 01:17:23PM +0100, Augustine Leudar wrote: This is a question for

Re: [Sursound] Question about plane waves, and the precedence effect

2012-09-12 Thread Augustine Leudar
another question is - is our auditory system able to take account of the curvature of a wavefront to estimate the distance of a source or does it only use other cues such as the spektral content of the sound etc etc On 12/09/2012, Augustine Leudar augustineleu...@gmail.com wrote: hmm - thats

Re: [Sursound] Question about plane waves, and the precedence effect

2012-09-12 Thread jim moses
the effect described could be an artifact of the speakers being used. if the speakers have have a high frequency bump at 0 degrees on axis, as many do, you can get the sensation described where each speaker sort of pops out of the array as you move in front of it. jim On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at

Re: [Sursound] Question about plane waves, and the precedence effect

2012-09-12 Thread jim moses
i've heard similar results, especially when close to the array, from some inexpensive speakers we used for experiments. to do better, look for speakers with wide and smoothly dispersed HF response and avoid horn driven PA sort of speakers. Of course, easier said than done when you need 16 or more

Re: [Sursound] Question about plane waves, and the precedence effect

2012-09-12 Thread Augustine Leudar
yeah - we I still got some nice results - my main interest is composition - but budgets the thing I think we will build a new system soon - people have been recomending car speakers to me On 12/09/2012, jim moses jmo...@brown.edu wrote: i've heard similar results, especially when close