On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 9:29 PM, Steve Kargl
s...@troutmask.apl.washington.edu wrote:
On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 05:40:59PM -0700, Craig Rodrigues wrote:
On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 5:26 PM, Steve Kargl
s...@troutmask.apl.washington.edu wrote:
Given the horrid state of the manpages, which I
On 06/15/15 at 12:49P, Bryan Drewery wrote:
On 6/13/15 9:29 PM, Steve Kargl wrote:
On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 05:40:59PM -0700, Craig Rodrigues wrote:
On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 5:26 PM, Steve Kargl
s...@troutmask.apl.washington.edu wrote:
Given the horrid state of the manpages, which I
On Wed, Jun 17, 2015 at 12:28 PM, hiren panchasara
hi...@strugglingcoder.info wrote:
Sorry if I've missed it but has any of the libxo proponents signed up to
fix the documentation part?
I'm not signing up to fix the documentation for libxo,
but I see bugs, I will file them upstream. I just
On Jun 17, 2015, at 12:28 PM, hiren panchasara hi...@strugglingcoder.info
wrote:
I also found that from simple 'man ls' (etc) there is no real mention of
what --libxo even is or how it works. Following the manpage
cross-references leads me to have to go to a webpage to see what params
On 15/06/2015 19:49, Warner Losh wrote:
I’ve yet to see why ls —libxo is better than a separate program articulated
anywhere other than libxo all the things.” Having a clear statement about
why it is needed, why changing it vs having a separate program, etc would
help. But is seems overly
On 15/06/2015 5:19 AM, Garrett Cooper wrote:
Next time someone else converts ANYTHING to libxo -- write tests
FIRST to make sure you're not breaking legacy behavior. If you need
help figuring out how to do that, I'll be more than happy to document
it on a wiki page, with simple, concise
On 6/15/15 1:34 PM, Garrett Cooper wrote:
On Jun 14, 2015, at 20:53, Julian Elischer jul...@freebsd.org wrote:
On 6/14/15 10:48 AM, Adrian Chadd wrote:
On 13 June 2015 at 18:22, Craig Rodrigues rodr...@freebsd.org wrote:
On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 6:00 PM, Adrian Chadd adr...@freebsd.org wrote:
On Mon, Jun 15, 2015 at 6:46 PM, Julian Elischer jul...@freebsd.org wrote:
On 6/15/15 1:34 PM, Garrett Cooper wrote:
On Jun 14, 2015, at 20:53, Julian Elischer jul...@freebsd.org wrote:
On 6/14/15 10:48 AM, Adrian Chadd wrote:
On 13 June 2015 at 18:22, Craig Rodrigues rodr...@freebsd.org
On 6/13/15 9:29 PM, Steve Kargl wrote:
On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 05:40:59PM -0700, Craig Rodrigues wrote:
On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 5:26 PM, Steve Kargl
s...@troutmask.apl.washington.edu wrote:
Given the horrid state of the manpages, which I showed
in March, one can only wonder about the
On 6/14/15 3:17 AM, Garrett Cooper wrote:
On Jun 14, 2015, at 3:00, Slawa Olhovchenkov s...@zxy.spb.ru
wrote:
On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 05:13:31PM -0700, Craig Rodrigues wrote:
The people I talk to use scripting languages like Python or
Ruby, and devops frameworks like Ansible, Saltstack,
On Mon, Jun 15, 2015 at 10:36:12AM -0600, Warner Losh wrote:
On Jun 14, 2015, at 12:53 PM, Adrian Chadd adr...@freebsd.org wrote:
I do like how zero percent of the comments are hey, maybe we need
unit tests that run these tools and ensure they output the right
stuff. If this were
On Jun 15, 2015, at 10:54 AM, Bryan Drewery bdrew...@freebsd.org wrote:
On 6/14/15 3:17 AM, Garrett Cooper wrote:
On Jun 14, 2015, at 3:00, Slawa Olhovchenkov s...@zxy.spb.ru
wrote:
On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 05:13:31PM -0700, Craig Rodrigues wrote:
The people I talk to use scripting
On Mon, Jun 15, 2015 at 10:24:24AM -0700, Craig Rodrigues wrote:
Having more tools use libxo will definitely make it easier to write tools
like Eagleeye.
Having more tools use libxo means having more broken tools.
% w --libxo
w: missing libxo option
OK. Let's check the manpage.
% man w
On Jun 14, 2015, at 12:53 PM, Adrian Chadd adr...@freebsd.org wrote:
I do like how zero percent of the comments are hey, maybe we need
unit tests that run these tools and ensure they output the right
stuff. If this were ${WORK} and I were ${BOSS}, I'd have asked the
libxo developers to
On Mon, Jun 15, 2015 at 10:12 AM, Slawa Olhovchenkov s...@zxy.spb.ru wrote:
No unification. This is more vital, I think.
And no tools for collect correlation data -- for example collect at
same time CPU load by core, i/o load by disk and network load by
inetrface. You may talk about
On 6/13/15 8:40 PM, Craig Rodrigues wrote:
For people building embedded products these days,
storage of gigabytes and even terabytes is often available,
I wish this was true. I recently was feeling good about finding a few
hundred KB here and there to save space on an embedded system.
--
On Jun 14, 2015, at 3:00, Slawa Olhovchenkov s...@zxy.spb.ru wrote:
On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 05:13:31PM -0700, Craig Rodrigues wrote:
The people I talk to use scripting languages like Python or Ruby,
and devops frameworks like Ansible, Saltstack, Puppet, and Chef.
They may do some quick
On Jun 13, 2015, at 23:09, Steve Kargl s...@troutmask.apl.washington.edu
wrote:
On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 06:45:57PM -0700, Craig Rodrigues wrote:
On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 6:29 PM, Steve Kargl
s...@troutmask.apl.washington.edu wrote:
Are you talking about this comment you made?
On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 05:13:31PM -0700, Craig Rodrigues wrote:
The people I talk to use scripting languages like Python or Ruby,
and devops frameworks like Ansible, Saltstack, Puppet, and Chef.
They may do some quick prototyping and UI work with Javascript and HTML/CSS.
Being able to
On 14/06/2015 11:00, Slawa Olhovchenkov wrote:
On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 05:13:31PM -0700, Craig Rodrigues wrote:
The people I talk to use scripting languages like Python or Ruby,
and devops frameworks like Ansible, Saltstack, Puppet, and Chef.
They may do some quick prototyping and UI work with
On Sun, Jun 14, 2015 at 11:22:03AM +0100, Bruce Simpson wrote:
On 14/06/2015 11:00, Slawa Olhovchenkov wrote:
On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 05:13:31PM -0700, Craig Rodrigues wrote:
The people I talk to use scripting languages like Python or Ruby,
and devops frameworks like Ansible, Saltstack,
On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 06:45:57PM -0700, Craig Rodrigues wrote:
On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 6:29 PM, Steve Kargl
s...@troutmask.apl.washington.edu wrote:
Are you talking about this comment you made?
https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-current/2015-March/054899.html
I
On Sun, Jun 14, 2015 at 11:22:03AM +0100, Bruce Simpson wrote:
But I have yet to see a coherent argument here -- size(1) numbers, RSS
figures etc. -- about how it allegedly adds bloat. Most of what I've
seen so far is POLA, NIH resistance, and hand-wavery.
It is not alleged. I actaully
On Jun 13, 2015, at 8:40 PM, Craig Rodrigues rodr...@freebsd.org wrote:
On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 5:26 PM, Steve Kargl
s...@troutmask.apl.washington.edu wrote:
On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 05:13:31PM -0700, Craig Rodrigues wrote:
For people who are trying to build FreeBSD-based embedded
On 14/06/2015 18:10, Steve Kargl wrote:
On Sun, Jun 14, 2015 at 11:22:03AM +0100, Bruce Simpson wrote:
But I have yet to see a coherent argument here -- size(1) numbers, RSS
figures etc. -- about how it allegedly adds bloat. Most of what I've
seen so far is POLA, NIH resistance, and
We have busybox already - it's called bsdbox, and it's in base, and
we're already using it, and yes, it does pull in libxo. :)
I'm not worried about the size increase of libxo. That's the wrong
thing to focus on. If it gets much more bloated then I'll poke people
with the big what are you
On Sun, Jun 14, 2015 at 07:46:05PM +0100, Bruce Simpson wrote:
On 14/06/2015 18:10, Steve Kargl wrote:
On Sun, Jun 14, 2015 at 11:22:03AM +0100, Bruce Simpson wrote:
But I have yet to see a coherent argument here -- size(1) numbers, RSS
figures etc. -- about how it allegedly adds bloat.
On 14 June 2015 at 10:10, Steve Kargl s...@troutmask.apl.washington.edu wrote:
On Sun, Jun 14, 2015 at 11:22:03AM +0100, Bruce Simpson wrote:
But I have yet to see a coherent argument here -- size(1) numbers, RSS
figures etc. -- about how it allegedly adds bloat. Most of what I've
seen so far
On Jun 13, 2015, at 9:22 PM, Craig Rodrigues rodr...@freebsd.org wrote:
On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 6:00 PM, Adrian Chadd adr...@freebsd.org wrote:
I guarantee that no matter what you've worked on, there's
approximately five orders of magnitude of shipping devices whose
entire storage
On 14 June 2015 at 12:25, Craig Rodrigues rodr...@freebsd.org wrote:
On Sun, Jun 14, 2015 at 11:53 AM, Adrian Chadd adr...@freebsd.org wrote:
I do like how zero percent of the comments are hey, maybe we need
unit tests that run these tools and ensure they output the right
stuff.
Actually
On Jun 14, 2015, at 11:53, Adrian Chadd adr...@freebsd.org wrote:
We have busybox already - it's called bsdbox, and it's in base, and
we're already using it, and yes, it does pull in libxo. :)
I'm not worried about the size increase of libxo. That's the wrong
thing to focus on. If it
On 14 June 2015 at 12:02, Garrett Cooper yaneurab...@gmail.com wrote:
On Jun 14, 2015, at 11:53, Adrian Chadd adr...@freebsd.org wrote:
We have busybox already - it's called bsdbox, and it's in base, and
we're already using it, and yes, it does pull in libxo. :)
I'm not worried about the
On Jun 14, 2015, at 12:07, Adrian Chadd adr...@freebsd.org wrote:
On 14 June 2015 at 12:02, Garrett Cooper yaneurab...@gmail.com wrote:
On Jun 14, 2015, at 11:53, Adrian Chadd adr...@freebsd.org wrote:
We have busybox already - it's called bsdbox, and it's in base, and
we're already
On Jun 14, 2015, at 20:53, Julian Elischer jul...@freebsd.org wrote:
On 6/14/15 10:48 AM, Adrian Chadd wrote:
On 13 June 2015 at 18:22, Craig Rodrigues rodr...@freebsd.org wrote:
On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 6:00 PM, Adrian Chadd adr...@freebsd.org wrote:
I guarantee that no matter what you've
On 6/14/15 10:48 AM, Adrian Chadd wrote:
On 13 June 2015 at 18:22, Craig Rodrigues rodr...@freebsd.org wrote:
On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 6:00 PM, Adrian Chadd adr...@freebsd.org wrote:
I guarantee that no matter what you've worked on, there's
approximately five orders of magnitude of shipping
On 6/14/15 2:40 AM, Marcel Moolenaar wrote:
On Jun 13, 2015, at 1:19 PM, Julian Elischer jul...@freebsd.org wrote:
On 6/13/15 11:38 PM, David Chisnall wrote:
On 13 Jun 2015, at 11:17, Ian Lepore i...@freebsd.org wrote:
If you would have told me a year ago that you had a simple scheme that
On Sun, Jun 14, 2015 at 11:53 AM, Adrian Chadd adr...@freebsd.org wrote:
I do like how zero percent of the comments are hey, maybe we need
unit tests that run these tools and ensure they output the right
stuff.
Actually you are wrong on that point. See:
On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 05:40:59PM -0700, Craig Rodrigues wrote:
On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 5:26 PM, Steve Kargl
s...@troutmask.apl.washington.edu wrote:
Given the horrid state of the manpages, which I showed
in March, one can only wonder about the internals of
the libxo itself.
Are
On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 6:00 PM, Adrian Chadd adr...@freebsd.org wrote:
I guarantee that no matter what you've worked on, there's
approximately five orders of magnitude of shipping devices whose
entire storage space can be measured in 1 digit megabytes. Each year.
(And yes - there's an
Hey Marcel,
I hope that the current discussion thread doesn't dishearten
you and Phil *too* much, and that you continue with the libxo work
in FreeBSD.
I think libxo is cool stuff.
I've talked to a few people who are not FreeBSD users (they do Linux
mostly),
and they also think that libxo is
On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 05:13:31PM -0700, Craig Rodrigues wrote:
For people who are trying to build FreeBSD-based embedded products with
modern web UI's,
this is *really* useful.
Given the bloat caused by libxo, which I showed in March,
I don't see how people working on embedded products
On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 5:26 PM, Steve Kargl
s...@troutmask.apl.washington.edu wrote:
On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 05:13:31PM -0700, Craig Rodrigues wrote:
For people who are trying to build FreeBSD-based embedded products with
modern web UI's,
this is *really* useful.
Given the bloat
On 13 June 2015 at 17:58, Adrian Chadd adr...@freebsd.org wrote:
Hi craig,
I guarantee that no matter what you've worked on, there's
approximately five orders of magnitude of shipping devices whose
entire storage space can be measured in 1 digit megabytes. Each year.
(And yes - there's an
On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 6:29 PM, Steve Kargl
s...@troutmask.apl.washington.edu wrote:
Are you talking about this comment you made?
https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-current/2015-March/054899.html
I can't make heads or tails of what you wrote, other than you seemed very
On 06/13/2015 15:16, Gleb Smirnoff wrote:
On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 11:38:11AM -0400, David Chisnall wrote:
D If you would have told me a year ago that you had a simple scheme that
D could make 30 years of experience maintaining code for unix-like systems
D completely worthless I would have
Hi craig,
I guarantee that no matter what you've worked on, there's
approximately five orders of magnitude of shipping devices whose
entire storage space can be measured in 1 digit megabytes. Each year.
-adrian
___
svn-src-head@freebsd.org mailing
On 13 June 2015 at 18:22, Craig Rodrigues rodr...@freebsd.org wrote:
On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 6:00 PM, Adrian Chadd adr...@freebsd.org wrote:
I guarantee that no matter what you've worked on, there's
approximately five orders of magnitude of shipping devices whose
entire storage space
On Jun 13, 2015, at 10:26 AM, Julian Elischer jul...@freebsd.org wrote:
On 6/13/15 10:49 AM, Steve Kargl wrote:
On Fri, Jun 12, 2015 at 08:43:09PM -0400, Alexander Kabaev wrote:
On Wed, 10 Jun 2015 01:27:39 + (UTC)
Marcel Moolenaar mar...@freebsd.org wrote:
Author: marcel
Date: Wed
On 6/13/15 10:49 AM, Steve Kargl wrote:
On Fri, Jun 12, 2015 at 08:43:09PM -0400, Alexander Kabaev wrote:
On Wed, 10 Jun 2015 01:27:39 + (UTC)
Marcel Moolenaar mar...@freebsd.org wrote:
Author: marcel
Date: Wed Jun 10 01:27:38 2015
New Revision: 284198
URL:
On Sat, 2015-06-13 at 11:38 -0400, David Chisnall wrote:
On 13 Jun 2015, at 11:17, Ian Lepore i...@freebsd.org wrote:
If you would have told me a year ago that you had a simple scheme that
could make 30 years of experience maintaining code for unix-like systems
completely worthless I
I think the experience so far has been ok, this way isn't working
well, maybe it's time we made all our statistics gathering binaries
thin layers on top of .so 's that implement the variation in output.
It's been valuable to (re)learn that, but ..
-adrian
On 13 Jun 2015, at 11:17, Ian Lepore i...@freebsd.org wrote:
If you would have told me a year ago that you had a simple scheme that
could make 30 years of experience maintaining code for unix-like systems
completely worthless I would have been skeptical, but it seems we're
well on our way.
On Jun 13, 2015, at 11:47 AM, Ian Lepore i...@freebsd.org wrote:
On Sat, 2015-06-13 at 11:38 -0400, David Chisnall wrote:
On 13 Jun 2015, at 11:17, Ian Lepore i...@freebsd.org wrote:
If you would have told me a year ago that you had a simple scheme that
could make 30 years of experience
On Jun 13, 2015, at 12:35 PM, Adrian Chadd adr...@freebsd.org wrote:
Hi,
I think we're at the point now where it's worth doing that
re-evaluation. I don't think it's worth backing everything out; just
whether the current approach of overriding printing the way it's done
is the right
On 13/06/2015 16:38, David Chisnall wrote:
On 13 Jun 2015, at 11:17, Ian Lepore i...@freebsd.org wrote:
If you would have told me a year ago that you had a simple scheme that
could make 30 years of experience maintaining code for unix-like systems
completely worthless I would have been
On Fri, 2015-06-12 at 19:49 -0700, Steve Kargl wrote:
On Fri, Jun 12, 2015 at 08:43:09PM -0400, Alexander Kabaev wrote:
On Wed, 10 Jun 2015 01:27:39 + (UTC)
Marcel Moolenaar mar...@freebsd.org wrote:
Author: marcel
Date: Wed Jun 10 01:27:38 2015
New Revision: 284198
URL:
Hi,
I think we're at the point now where it's worth doing that
re-evaluation. I don't think it's worth backing everything out; just
whether the current approach of overriding printing the way it's done
is the right way.
So, how about that happens nowish before more things are converted?
On 6/13/15 11:38 PM, David Chisnall wrote:
On 13 Jun 2015, at 11:17, Ian Lepore i...@freebsd.org wrote:
If you would have told me a year ago that you had a simple scheme that
could make 30 years of experience maintaining code for unix-like systems
completely worthless I would have been
On 13 June 2015 at 10:06, Marcel Moolenaar mar...@xcllnt.net wrote:
On Jun 13, 2015, at 12:35 PM, Adrian Chadd adr...@freebsd.org wrote:
Hi,
I think we're at the point now where it's worth doing that
re-evaluation. I don't think it's worth backing everything out; just
whether the current
On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 11:38:11AM -0400, David Chisnall wrote:
D If you would have told me a year ago that you had a simple scheme that
D could make 30 years of experience maintaining code for unix-like systems
D completely worthless I would have been skeptical, but it seems we're
D well on
On Jun 13, 2015, at 12:25 PM, Marcel Moolenaar mar...@xcllnt.net wrote:
On Jun 13, 2015, at 11:47 AM, Ian Lepore i...@freebsd.org wrote:
On Sat, 2015-06-13 at 11:38 -0400, David Chisnall wrote:
On 13 Jun 2015, at 11:17, Ian Lepore i...@freebsd.org wrote:
If you would have told me a
On Jun 13, 2015, at 1:19 PM, Julian Elischer jul...@freebsd.org wrote:
On 6/13/15 11:38 PM, David Chisnall wrote:
On 13 Jun 2015, at 11:17, Ian Lepore i...@freebsd.org wrote:
If you would have told me a year ago that you had a simple scheme that
could make 30 years of experience
On Sun, Jun 14, 2015 at 01:19:27AM +0800, Julian Elischer wrote:
On 6/13/15 11:38 PM, David Chisnall wrote:
On 13 Jun 2015, at 11:17, Ian Lepore i...@freebsd.org wrote:
If you would have told me a year ago that you had a simple scheme that
could make 30 years of experience maintaining code
On 13.06.2015 17:26, Julian Elischer wrote:
On 6/13/15 10:49 AM, Steve Kargl wrote:
On Fri, Jun 12, 2015 at 08:43:09PM -0400, Alexander Kabaev wrote:
On Wed, 10 Jun 2015 01:27:39 + (UTC)
Marcel Moolenaar mar...@freebsd.org wrote:
Author: marcel
Date: Wed Jun 10 01:27:38 2015
New
On Fri, 12 Jun 2015 20:43:09 -0400
Alexander Kabaev kab...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, 10 Jun 2015 01:27:39 + (UTC)
Marcel Moolenaar mar...@freebsd.org wrote:
Author: marcel
Date: Wed Jun 10 01:27:38 2015
New Revision: 284198
URL: https://svnweb.freebsd.org/changeset/base/284198
On Wed, 10 Jun 2015 01:27:39 + (UTC)
Marcel Moolenaar mar...@freebsd.org wrote:
Author: marcel
Date: Wed Jun 10 01:27:38 2015
New Revision: 284198
URL: https://svnweb.freebsd.org/changeset/base/284198
Log:
Convert ls(1) to use libxo(3).
Obtained from: Phil Shafer
On Fri, Jun 12, 2015 at 08:43:09PM -0400, Alexander Kabaev wrote:
On Wed, 10 Jun 2015 01:27:39 + (UTC)
Marcel Moolenaar mar...@freebsd.org wrote:
Author: marcel
Date: Wed Jun 10 01:27:38 2015
New Revision: 284198
URL: https://svnweb.freebsd.org/changeset/base/284198
Log:
On Jun 9, 2015, at 18:27, Marcel Moolenaar mar...@freebsd.org wrote:
Author: marcel
Date: Wed Jun 10 01:27:38 2015
New Revision: 284198
URL: https://svnweb.freebsd.org/changeset/base/284198
Log:
Convert ls(1) to use libxo(3).
Obtained from: Phil Shafer p...@juniper.net
Author: marcel
Date: Wed Jun 10 01:27:38 2015
New Revision: 284198
URL: https://svnweb.freebsd.org/changeset/base/284198
Log:
Convert ls(1) to use libxo(3).
Obtained from:Phil Shafer p...@juniper.net
Sponsored by: Juniper Networks, Inc.
Modified:
head/bin/ls/Makefile
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