On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 9:29 PM, Steve Kargl <
s...@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> wrote:
> On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 05:40:59PM -0700, Craig Rodrigues wrote:
> > On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 5:26 PM, Steve Kargl <
> > s...@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> wrote:
> > >
> > > Given the horrid state of the man
> On Jun 17, 2015, at 12:28 PM, hiren panchasara
> wrote:
>>
>> I also found that from simple 'man ls' (etc) there is no real mention of
>> what --libxo even is or how it works. Following the manpage
>> cross-references leads me to have to go to a webpage to see what params
>> --libxo even take
On Wed, Jun 17, 2015 at 12:28 PM, hiren panchasara <
hi...@strugglingcoder.info> wrote:
>
> Sorry if I've missed it but has any of the libxo proponents signed up to
> fix the documentation part?
>
I'm not signing up to fix the documentation for libxo,
but I see bugs, I will file them upstream. I
On 06/15/15 at 12:49P, Bryan Drewery wrote:
> On 6/13/15 9:29 PM, Steve Kargl wrote:
> > On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 05:40:59PM -0700, Craig Rodrigues wrote:
> >> On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 5:26 PM, Steve Kargl <
> >> s...@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Given the horrid state of the manp
On 15/06/2015 5:19 AM, Garrett Cooper wrote:
>
> Next time someone else converts ANYTHING to libxo -- write tests
> FIRST to make sure you're not breaking legacy behavior. If you need
> help figuring out how to do that, I'll be more than happy to document
> it on a wiki page, with simple, concise
On 15/06/2015 19:49, Warner Losh wrote:
I’ve yet to see why ls —libxo is better than a separate program articulated
anywhere other than "libxo all the things.” Having a clear statement about
why it is needed, why changing it vs having a separate program, etc would
help. But is seems overly gratui
On Mon, Jun 15, 2015 at 6:46 PM, Julian Elischer wrote:
> On 6/15/15 1:34 PM, Garrett Cooper wrote:
>>
>> On Jun 14, 2015, at 20:53, Julian Elischer wrote:
>>
>>> On 6/14/15 10:48 AM, Adrian Chadd wrote:
On 13 June 2015 at 18:22, Craig Rodrigues wrote:
>
> On Sat, Jun 13, 2015
On 6/15/15 1:34 PM, Garrett Cooper wrote:
On Jun 14, 2015, at 20:53, Julian Elischer wrote:
On 6/14/15 10:48 AM, Adrian Chadd wrote:
On 13 June 2015 at 18:22, Craig Rodrigues wrote:
On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 6:00 PM, Adrian Chadd wrote:
I guarantee that no matter what you've worked on, ther
> On Jun 15, 2015, at 10:54 AM, Bryan Drewery wrote:
>
> On 6/14/15 3:17 AM, Garrett Cooper wrote:
>> On Jun 14, 2015, at 3:00, Slawa Olhovchenkov
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 05:13:31PM -0700, Craig Rodrigues wrote:
>>>
The people I talk to use scripting languages like Pytho
On Mon, Jun 15, 2015 at 10:24:24AM -0700, Craig Rodrigues wrote:
>
> Having more tools use libxo will definitely make it easier to write tools
> like Eagleeye.
>
Having more tools use libxo means having more broken tools.
% w --libxo
w: missing libxo option
OK. Let's check the manpage.
% man
On Mon, Jun 15, 2015 at 10:36:12AM -0600, Warner Losh wrote:
>
> > On Jun 14, 2015, at 12:53 PM, Adrian Chadd wrote:
> >
> > I do like how zero percent of the comments are "hey, maybe we need
> > unit tests that run these tools and ensure they output the right
> > stuff." If this were ${WORK} a
On Mon, Jun 15, 2015 at 10:12 AM, Slawa Olhovchenkov wrote:
>
> No unification. This is more vital, I think.
> And no tools for collect correlation data -- for example collect at
> same time CPU load by core, i/o load by disk and network load by
> inetrface. You may talk about Graphite, but graff
On 6/14/15 3:17 AM, Garrett Cooper wrote:
> On Jun 14, 2015, at 3:00, Slawa Olhovchenkov
> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 05:13:31PM -0700, Craig Rodrigues wrote:
>>
>>> The people I talk to use scripting languages like Python or
>>> Ruby, and devops frameworks like Ansible, Saltstack, Pupp
> On Jun 14, 2015, at 12:53 PM, Adrian Chadd wrote:
>
> I do like how zero percent of the comments are "hey, maybe we need
> unit tests that run these tools and ensure they output the right
> stuff." If this were ${WORK} and I were ${BOSS}, I'd have asked the
> libxo developers to include unit t
On 6/13/15 9:29 PM, Steve Kargl wrote:
> On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 05:40:59PM -0700, Craig Rodrigues wrote:
>> On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 5:26 PM, Steve Kargl <
>> s...@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>> Given the horrid state of the manpages, which I showed
>>> in March, one can only wonder a
On 6/13/15 8:40 PM, Craig Rodrigues wrote:
> For people building embedded products these days,
> storage of gigabytes and even terabytes is often available,
I wish this was true. I recently was feeling good about finding a few
hundred KB here and there to save space on an embedded system.
--
Reg
On Jun 14, 2015, at 20:53, Julian Elischer wrote:
> On 6/14/15 10:48 AM, Adrian Chadd wrote:
>> On 13 June 2015 at 18:22, Craig Rodrigues wrote:
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 6:00 PM, Adrian Chadd wrote:
> I guarantee that no matter what you've worked on, there's
> approximately five
On 6/14/15 10:48 AM, Adrian Chadd wrote:
On 13 June 2015 at 18:22, Craig Rodrigues wrote:
On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 6:00 PM, Adrian Chadd wrote:
I guarantee that no matter what you've worked on, there's
approximately five orders of magnitude of shipping devices whose
entire storage space can b
On 6/14/15 2:40 AM, Marcel Moolenaar wrote:
On Jun 13, 2015, at 1:19 PM, Julian Elischer wrote:
On 6/13/15 11:38 PM, David Chisnall wrote:
On 13 Jun 2015, at 11:17, Ian Lepore wrote:
If you would have told me a year ago that you had a simple scheme that
could make 30 years of experience main
> On Jun 14, 2015, at 12:07, Adrian Chadd wrote:
>
>> On 14 June 2015 at 12:02, Garrett Cooper wrote:
>>
>>> On Jun 14, 2015, at 11:53, Adrian Chadd wrote:
>>>
>>> We have busybox already - it's called bsdbox, and it's in base, and
>>> we're already using it, and yes, it does pull in libxo.
On 14 June 2015 at 12:02, Garrett Cooper wrote:
>
>> On Jun 14, 2015, at 11:53, Adrian Chadd wrote:
>>
>> We have busybox already - it's called bsdbox, and it's in base, and
>> we're already using it, and yes, it does pull in libxo. :)
>>
>> I'm not worried about the size increase of libxo. That'
> On Jun 14, 2015, at 11:53, Adrian Chadd wrote:
>
> We have busybox already - it's called bsdbox, and it's in base, and
> we're already using it, and yes, it does pull in libxo. :)
>
> I'm not worried about the size increase of libxo. That's the wrong
> thing to focus on. If it gets much more
On 14 June 2015 at 12:25, Craig Rodrigues wrote:
>
>
> On Sun, Jun 14, 2015 at 11:53 AM, Adrian Chadd wrote:
>>
>> I do like how zero percent of the comments are "hey, maybe we need
>> unit tests that run these tools and ensure they output the right
>> stuff."
>
>
> Actually you are wrong on that
On Sun, Jun 14, 2015 at 11:53 AM, Adrian Chadd wrote:
> I do like how zero percent of the comments are "hey, maybe we need
> unit tests that run these tools and ensure they output the right
> stuff."
>
Actually you are wrong on that point. See:
https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/svn-src-all/2
On Sun, Jun 14, 2015 at 07:46:05PM +0100, Bruce Simpson wrote:
> On 14/06/2015 18:10, Steve Kargl wrote:
> > On Sun, Jun 14, 2015 at 11:22:03AM +0100, Bruce Simpson wrote:
> >>
> >> But I have yet to see a coherent argument here -- size(1) numbers, RSS
> >> figures etc. -- about how it allegedly ad
We have busybox already - it's called bsdbox, and it's in base, and
we're already using it, and yes, it does pull in libxo. :)
I'm not worried about the size increase of libxo. That's the wrong
thing to focus on. If it gets much more bloated then I'll poke people
with the big "what are you thinkin
On 14/06/2015 18:10, Steve Kargl wrote:
On Sun, Jun 14, 2015 at 11:22:03AM +0100, Bruce Simpson wrote:
But I have yet to see a coherent argument here -- size(1) numbers, RSS
figures etc. -- about how it allegedly adds bloat. Most of what I've
seen so far is POLA, NIH resistance, and hand-wavery
> On Jun 13, 2015, at 9:22 PM, Craig Rodrigues wrote:
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 6:00 PM, Adrian Chadd wrote:
> >
> > I guarantee that no matter what you've worked on, there's
> > approximately five orders of magnitude of shipping devices whose
> > entire storage space can be measured in
> On Jun 13, 2015, at 8:40 PM, Craig Rodrigues wrote:
>
> On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 5:26 PM, Steve Kargl
> wrote:
> On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 05:13:31PM -0700, Craig Rodrigues wrote:
> >
> > For people who are trying to build FreeBSD-based embedded products with
> > modern web UI's,
> > this is *r
On 14 June 2015 at 10:10, Steve Kargl wrote:
> On Sun, Jun 14, 2015 at 11:22:03AM +0100, Bruce Simpson wrote:
>>
>> But I have yet to see a coherent argument here -- size(1) numbers, RSS
>> figures etc. -- about how it allegedly adds bloat. Most of what I've
>> seen so far is POLA, NIH resistance,
On Sun, Jun 14, 2015 at 11:22:03AM +0100, Bruce Simpson wrote:
>
> But I have yet to see a coherent argument here -- size(1) numbers, RSS
> figures etc. -- about how it allegedly adds bloat. Most of what I've
> seen so far is POLA, NIH resistance, and hand-wavery.
>
It is not alleged. I actau
On Jun 13, 2015, at 23:09, Steve Kargl
wrote:
> On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 06:45:57PM -0700, Craig Rodrigues wrote:
>> On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 6:29 PM, Steve Kargl <
>> s...@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> wrote:
>>
Are you talking about this comment you made?
>>> https://lists.free
On Sun, Jun 14, 2015 at 11:22:03AM +0100, Bruce Simpson wrote:
> On 14/06/2015 11:00, Slawa Olhovchenkov wrote:
> > On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 05:13:31PM -0700, Craig Rodrigues wrote:
> >
> >> The people I talk to use scripting languages like Python or Ruby,
> >> and devops frameworks like Ansible, S
On 14/06/2015 11:00, Slawa Olhovchenkov wrote:
On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 05:13:31PM -0700, Craig Rodrigues wrote:
The people I talk to use scripting languages like Python or Ruby,
and devops frameworks like Ansible, Saltstack, Puppet, and Chef.
They may do some quick prototyping and UI work with
On Jun 14, 2015, at 3:00, Slawa Olhovchenkov wrote:
> On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 05:13:31PM -0700, Craig Rodrigues wrote:
>
>> The people I talk to use scripting languages like Python or Ruby,
>> and devops frameworks like Ansible, Saltstack, Puppet, and Chef.
>> They may do some quick prototyping
On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 05:13:31PM -0700, Craig Rodrigues wrote:
> The people I talk to use scripting languages like Python or Ruby,
> and devops frameworks like Ansible, Saltstack, Puppet, and Chef.
> They may do some quick prototyping and UI work with Javascript and HTML/CSS.
> Being able to gen
On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 06:45:57PM -0700, Craig Rodrigues wrote:
> On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 6:29 PM, Steve Kargl <
> s...@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> wrote:
>
> > >
> > > Are you talking about this comment you made?
> > >
> > https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-current/2015-March/054899.h
On 06/13/2015 15:16, Gleb Smirnoff wrote:
> On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 11:38:11AM -0400, David Chisnall wrote:
> D> > If you would have told me a year ago that you had a simple scheme that
> D> > could make 30 years of experience maintaining code for unix-like systems
> D> > completely worthless I wou
On 13 June 2015 at 18:22, Craig Rodrigues wrote:
>
>
> On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 6:00 PM, Adrian Chadd wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > I guarantee that no matter what you've worked on, there's
>> > approximately five orders of magnitude of shipping devices whose
>> > entire storage space can be measured in 1 d
On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 6:29 PM, Steve Kargl <
s...@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> wrote:
> >
> > Are you talking about this comment you made?
> >
> https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-current/2015-March/054899.html
> >
> > I can't make heads or tails of what you wrote, other than you seeme
On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 05:40:59PM -0700, Craig Rodrigues wrote:
> On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 5:26 PM, Steve Kargl <
> s...@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> wrote:
> >
> > Given the horrid state of the manpages, which I showed
> > in March, one can only wonder about the internals of
> > the libxo itself.
On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 6:00 PM, Adrian Chadd wrote:
> >
> > I guarantee that no matter what you've worked on, there's
> > approximately five orders of magnitude of shipping devices whose
> > entire storage space can be measured in 1 digit megabytes. Each year.
>
> (And yes - there's an appreciab
On 13 June 2015 at 17:58, Adrian Chadd wrote:
> Hi craig,
>
> I guarantee that no matter what you've worked on, there's
> approximately five orders of magnitude of shipping devices whose
> entire storage space can be measured in 1 digit megabytes. Each year.
(And yes - there's an appreciable set
Hi craig,
I guarantee that no matter what you've worked on, there's
approximately five orders of magnitude of shipping devices whose
entire storage space can be measured in 1 digit megabytes. Each year.
-adrian
___
svn-src-head@freebsd.org mailing lis
On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 5:26 PM, Steve Kargl <
s...@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> wrote:
> On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 05:13:31PM -0700, Craig Rodrigues wrote:
> >
> > For people who are trying to build FreeBSD-based embedded products with
> > modern web UI's,
> > this is *really* useful.
> >
>
> Give
On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 05:13:31PM -0700, Craig Rodrigues wrote:
>
> For people who are trying to build FreeBSD-based embedded products with
> modern web UI's,
> this is *really* useful.
>
Given the bloat caused by libxo, which I showed in March,
I don't see how people working on embedded produ
Hey Marcel,
I hope that the current discussion thread doesn't dishearten
you and Phil *too* much, and that you continue with the libxo work
in FreeBSD.
I think libxo is cool stuff.
I've talked to a few people who are not FreeBSD users (they do Linux
mostly),
and they also think that libxo is pre
On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 11:38:11AM -0400, David Chisnall wrote:
D> > If you would have told me a year ago that you had a simple scheme that
D> > could make 30 years of experience maintaining code for unix-like systems
D> > completely worthless I would have been skeptical, but it seems we're
D> > we
> On Jun 13, 2015, at 1:19 PM, Julian Elischer wrote:
>
> On 6/13/15 11:38 PM, David Chisnall wrote:
>> On 13 Jun 2015, at 11:17, Ian Lepore wrote:
>>> If you would have told me a year ago that you had a simple scheme that
>>> could make 30 years of experience maintaining code for unix-like sys
On 13.06.2015 17:26, Julian Elischer wrote:
> On 6/13/15 10:49 AM, Steve Kargl wrote:
>> On Fri, Jun 12, 2015 at 08:43:09PM -0400, Alexander Kabaev wrote:
>>> On Wed, 10 Jun 2015 01:27:39 + (UTC)
>>> Marcel Moolenaar wrote:
>>>
Author: marcel
Date: Wed Jun 10 01:27:38 2015
New R
> On Jun 13, 2015, at 12:25 PM, Marcel Moolenaar wrote:
>
>
>> On Jun 13, 2015, at 11:47 AM, Ian Lepore wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, 2015-06-13 at 11:38 -0400, David Chisnall wrote:
>>> On 13 Jun 2015, at 11:17, Ian Lepore wrote:
If you would have told me a year ago that you had a simple
On Sun, Jun 14, 2015 at 01:19:27AM +0800, Julian Elischer wrote:
> On 6/13/15 11:38 PM, David Chisnall wrote:
> > On 13 Jun 2015, at 11:17, Ian Lepore wrote:
> >> If you would have told me a year ago that you had a simple scheme that
> >> could make 30 years of experience maintaining code for unix
On 13 June 2015 at 10:06, Marcel Moolenaar wrote:
>
>> On Jun 13, 2015, at 12:35 PM, Adrian Chadd wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I think we're at the point now where it's worth doing that
>> re-evaluation. I don't think it's worth backing everything out; just
>> whether the current approach of overriding
.. and, since libbsdstat is mostly in the small sandpit of wifi
statistics tools, I'm going to do this /anyway/. Then people can
evaluate if it's useful to convert other tools to use libbsdstat.
-adrian
___
svn-src-head@freebsd.org mailing list
http://
On 6/13/15 11:38 PM, David Chisnall wrote:
On 13 Jun 2015, at 11:17, Ian Lepore wrote:
If you would have told me a year ago that you had a simple scheme that
could make 30 years of experience maintaining code for unix-like systems
completely worthless I would have been skeptical, but it seems w
> On Jun 13, 2015, at 12:35 PM, Adrian Chadd wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I think we're at the point now where it's worth doing that
> re-evaluation. I don't think it's worth backing everything out; just
> whether the current approach of overriding printing the way it's done
> is the right way.
>
> So,
Hi,
I think we're at the point now where it's worth doing that
re-evaluation. I don't think it's worth backing everything out; just
whether the current approach of overriding printing the way it's done
is the right way.
So, how about that happens nowish before more things are converted?
-adrian
> On Jun 13, 2015, at 11:47 AM, Ian Lepore wrote:
>
> On Sat, 2015-06-13 at 11:38 -0400, David Chisnall wrote:
>> On 13 Jun 2015, at 11:17, Ian Lepore wrote:
>>>
>>> If you would have told me a year ago that you had a simple scheme that
>>> could make 30 years of experience maintaining code fo
On Sat, 2015-06-13 at 11:38 -0400, David Chisnall wrote:
> On 13 Jun 2015, at 11:17, Ian Lepore wrote:
> >
> > If you would have told me a year ago that you had a simple scheme that
> > could make 30 years of experience maintaining code for unix-like systems
> > completely worthless I would have
On 13/06/2015 16:38, David Chisnall wrote:
On 13 Jun 2015, at 11:17, Ian Lepore wrote:
If you would have told me a year ago that you had a simple scheme that
could make 30 years of experience maintaining code for unix-like systems
completely worthless I would have been skeptical, but it seems
On 13 Jun 2015, at 11:17, Ian Lepore wrote:
>
> If you would have told me a year ago that you had a simple scheme that
> could make 30 years of experience maintaining code for unix-like systems
> completely worthless I would have been skeptical, but it seems we're
> well on our way.
There is a l
I think the experience so far has been "ok, this way isn't working
well, maybe it's time we made all our statistics gathering binaries
thin layers on top of .so 's that implement the variation in output."
It's been valuable to (re)learn that, but ..
-adrian
__
On Fri, 2015-06-12 at 19:49 -0700, Steve Kargl wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 12, 2015 at 08:43:09PM -0400, Alexander Kabaev wrote:
> > On Wed, 10 Jun 2015 01:27:39 + (UTC)
> > Marcel Moolenaar wrote:
> >
> > > Author: marcel
> > > Date: Wed Jun 10 01:27:38 2015
> > > New Revision: 284198
> > > URL: ht
> On Jun 13, 2015, at 10:26 AM, Julian Elischer wrote:
>
> On 6/13/15 10:49 AM, Steve Kargl wrote:
>> On Fri, Jun 12, 2015 at 08:43:09PM -0400, Alexander Kabaev wrote:
>>> On Wed, 10 Jun 2015 01:27:39 + (UTC)
>>> Marcel Moolenaar wrote:
>>>
Author: marcel
Date: Wed Jun 10 01:27:3
On 6/13/15 10:49 AM, Steve Kargl wrote:
On Fri, Jun 12, 2015 at 08:43:09PM -0400, Alexander Kabaev wrote:
On Wed, 10 Jun 2015 01:27:39 + (UTC)
Marcel Moolenaar wrote:
Author: marcel
Date: Wed Jun 10 01:27:38 2015
New Revision: 284198
URL: https://svnweb.freebsd.org/changeset/base/284198
On Fri, Jun 12, 2015 at 08:43:09PM -0400, Alexander Kabaev wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Jun 2015 01:27:39 + (UTC)
> Marcel Moolenaar wrote:
>
> > Author: marcel
> > Date: Wed Jun 10 01:27:38 2015
> > New Revision: 284198
> > URL: https://svnweb.freebsd.org/changeset/base/284198
> >
> > Log:
> > Con
On Fri, 12 Jun 2015 20:43:09 -0400
Alexander Kabaev wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Jun 2015 01:27:39 + (UTC)
> Marcel Moolenaar wrote:
>
> > Author: marcel
> > Date: Wed Jun 10 01:27:38 2015
> > New Revision: 284198
> > URL: https://svnweb.freebsd.org/changeset/base/284198
> >
> > Log:
> > Convert
On Wed, 10 Jun 2015 01:27:39 + (UTC)
Marcel Moolenaar wrote:
> Author: marcel
> Date: Wed Jun 10 01:27:38 2015
> New Revision: 284198
> URL: https://svnweb.freebsd.org/changeset/base/284198
>
> Log:
> Convert ls(1) to use libxo(3).
>
> Obtained from: Phil Shafer
> Sponsored by
On Jun 9, 2015, at 18:27, Marcel Moolenaar wrote:
> Author: marcel
> Date: Wed Jun 10 01:27:38 2015
> New Revision: 284198
> URL: https://svnweb.freebsd.org/changeset/base/284198
>
> Log:
> Convert ls(1) to use libxo(3).
>
> Obtained from: Phil Shafer
> Sponsored by:Juniper Ne
Author: marcel
Date: Wed Jun 10 01:27:38 2015
New Revision: 284198
URL: https://svnweb.freebsd.org/changeset/base/284198
Log:
Convert ls(1) to use libxo(3).
Obtained from:Phil Shafer
Sponsored by: Juniper Networks, Inc.
Modified:
head/bin/ls/Makefile
head/bin/ls/extern.h
h
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