Compacted usually means compacted earth (the soil has been packed more densely,
but no other hard surface has been added). A dirt road simply has the native
soil exposed, with perhaps some grading done, but again no topping added. To
my mind, neither of these count as paved.
On September 30,
We are only reiterating the fact that being paved or not is subjective to
the renderer/router/data consumer, based on the intention of the particular
user, and thus a tag for paved=* is counter-productive.
John F. Eldredge wrote on 2014-10-01 14:44:
Compacted usually means compacted earth (the
These are more than 90% of values for surface, categorize them as
paved/unpaved the rest as unpaved.
surface=
asphalt
unpaved
paved
gravel
ground
dirt
grass
concrete
paving_stones
sand
cobblestone
compacted
paved=yes will remove then need for parsing those last % of surface=*
values, not sure
On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 8:16 PM, Pee Wee piewi...@gmail.com wrote:
No it not a language problem or a dictionary issue. It's about an OSM data
consumer (openfietmap) that thinks it is important to for cyclist to know
what type of paving can be expected. Paved, unpaved and semi-paved to keep
Am 25.09.2014 11:48, schrieb Pieren:
I think the main issue raised in this thread is to decide if each data
consumer can decide alone what surface is paved or not (using this
surface key and its hundreds values) or if we are able to find a
common definition stored in the osm db (using this paved
2014-09-24 1:40 GMT+02:00 Warin 61sundow...@gmail.com:
One more point against that I have not seen (yet) .. with this
additional tag you can get conflicts e.g.
Paved=yes
Surface=Unpaved
Oh .. you want to exclude paved/unpaved from surface? Ok, then we get
Paved=yes
Surface=sand
I
As per Peewee post - the definition of 'paved' vs 'unpaved' is open to
interpretation. But I don't think anyone would accept 'sand' as being
'paved'?
I would not call sand paved but when we look at e.g.gravel / fine_gravel
the opinions will vary. The OSM based Openfietsmap
2014-09-24 18:40 GMT+02:00 Pee Wee piewi...@gmail.com:
I would not call sand paved but when we look at e.g.gravel / fine_gravel
the opinions will vary. The OSM based Openfietsmap
http://www.openfietsmap.nl/home/legenda(cycling map for Garmin devices)
has yet another value called semi-paved.
No it not a language problem or a dictionary issue. It's about an OSM data
consumer (openfietmap) that thinks it is important to for cyclist to know
what type of paving can be expected. Paved, unpaved and semi-paved to keep
it simple. I think this is OK and it works for me.
Cheers
Peewee32
On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 3:54 AM, p...@trigpoint.me.uk wrote:
Toll? I assume that means the same in US English as in UK English?
Yes, as in you need to pay a fee to travel on it to use it.
You really have to pay to use cycleways? How is the toll collected and
enforced?
I've encountered
There's historic precident outside Kansas as well. What is now the Arroyo
Seco Freeway in LA originally opened as a pinewood, limited access,
elevated bicycle tollway under the name of California Cycleway sometime
around 1890.
On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 9:32 AM, John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.com
2014-09-23 1:12 GMT+02:00 David Bannon dban...@internode.on.net:
Zoom in a bit at OSM and pop out the Key, it shows how unsurfaced roads
are rendered. But you don't see that on the map. Current model does not
work ! We can continue to argue is OK anyway or we can fix it. Choose.
here we
David Bannon wrote:
The truth is the paved/unpaved state of a road is being widely
ignored or incorrectly interpreted. The map at osm.org illustrates
my point, perhaps as well as an XKCD cartoon :-)
Yep, absolutely. But the way to fix that is to get the map at osm.org to
render surfaces,
On 24/09/2014 1:27 AM, tagging-requ...@openstreetmap.org wrote:
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 15:43:07 +0200 From: Martin Koppenhoefer
dieterdre...@gmail.com To: Tag discussion, strategy and related
tools tagging@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Tagging] New key
proposal - paved=yes/no Message-ID
Tomasz Kaźmierczak wrote:
I would like to suggest making the paved key for highways
(and probably other types of elements) official.
First of all, this is OSM: there are no official or unofficial tags. Use
what you like as long as it accords with core OSM tagging principles such as
2014-09-22 0:36 GMT+02:00 Paul Johnson ba...@ursamundi.org:
Along with this, I really hope renderers start computing surface=* and
toll=* values for ALL ways. I say this since surface=asphalt,
highway=cyclway is an exceptionally rare combination in the midwestern US,
but highway=cycleway,
2014-09-22 0:42 GMT+02:00 Paul Johnson ba...@ursamundi.org:
On Sun, Sep 21, 2014 at 4:06 AM, Volker Schmidt vosc...@gmail.com wrote:
For bicycle routing the paved information is not very useful.
I strongly dispute this. In the US, where practical bicycles are the
exception, not the rule,
Toll? I assume that means the same in US English as in UK English?
You really have to pay to use cycleways? How is the toll collected and
enforced?
Phil (trigpoint )
On Sun Sep 21 2014 23:36:04 GMT+0100 (BST), Paul Johnson wrote:
Along with this, I really hope renderers start computing
Richard's arguments seem spot on. I hadn't thought it through that way, and
his viewpoint is coming from two regimes.
Richard wrote:
Please, please, please don't fall into the trap of trying to optimise for
data consumers when you're not a data consumer. OSM has far too much of this
and it's
I am American, and the concept of a toll cycleway is not one I have
encountered either.
On September 22, 2014 3:55:03 AM p...@trigpoint.me.uk wrote:
Toll? I assume that means the same in US English as in UK English?
You really have to pay to use cycleways? How is the toll collected and
Ah, Richard, its very hard to argue with someone who uses XKCD to
illustrate their point, unfair !
But, no official tags ? truish. But when I am speaking to someone, I
am free to make up new words and grammar, but should not expect to be
understood. Better to agree in advance.
And yes, bike
-1
A renderer/router is perfectly capable of deciding what he thinks is
paved/unpaved. He can decide whether he calls gravel / fine_gravel paved or
unpaved. Do not leave the decision paved/unpaved up to the mapper. Map
what you see. As you may have guessed I prefer surface=asphalt over
In addition there is a another problem, at least for bicycle routing,
independently of the way the paved yes/no information is tagged.
For bicycle routing the paved information is not very useful. What is
important is the smoothness information, either implicitly or explicitly.
That can be derived
Il giorno 21/set/2014, alle ore 09:29, Pee Wee piewi...@gmail.com ha
scritto:
As you may have guessed I prefer surface=asphalt over surface=paved since the
last one could mean that it is gravel.
while I also prefer asphalt over paved (more specific), I think it's difficult
to find
2014-09-21 15:37 GMT+02:00 Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com:
Il giorno 21/set/2014, alle ore 09:29, Pee Wee piewi...@gmail.com ha
scritto:
As you may have guessed I prefer surface=asphalt over surface=paved
since the last one could mean that it is gravel.
while I also
On Sep 21, 2014, at 7:34 AM, Pee Wee wrote:
Well if an unpaved forest path would get gravel or fine_gravel thrown on top
of it I would consider this some sort of paving that could be classified as
paved. You apparently don't. No need to argue about that , it only goes to
show that the
On 21/09/2014, Tod Fitch t...@fitchdesign.com wrote:
Despite being actively discouraged, paved=yes/no is
used. And two of the top values for surface=* are paved and unpaved,
A lot of those are historical values, before the practice of distinct
surface values took hold.
clearly taggers find
W dniu 21 września 2014 02:10 użytkownik Tom Pfeifer napisał:
Navigation software is pretty able to consider a short list of specific
pavings
as 'paved' and another short list as 'unpaved', they are already structured
in the
wiki.
OsmAnd, as a popular navigation software, does so, and in
Along with this, I really hope renderers start computing surface=* and
toll=* values for ALL ways. I say this since surface=asphalt,
highway=cyclway is an exceptionally rare combination in the midwestern US,
but highway=cycleway, surface=gravel, toll=yes is not.
On Sun, Sep 21, 2014 at 2:29 AM,
On Sun, Sep 21, 2014 at 4:06 AM, Volker Schmidt vosc...@gmail.com wrote:
For bicycle routing the paved information is not very useful.
I strongly dispute this. In the US, where practical bicycles are the
exception, not the rule, surface information is exceptionally important.
The overwhelming
On Mon, 2014-09-22 at 00:23 +0200, Tomasz Kaźmierczak wrote:
..A good suggestion ...
So it seems that yet again, we are going to reject this attempt to solve
a real problem. Looking at the neg replies, because its not useful for
bike riders; not useful for a number of undefined edge cases; is a
On Sun, Sep 21, 2014 at 11:05 PM, Tod Fitch t...@fitchdesign.com wrote:
On Sep 21, 2014, at 7:34 AM, Pee Wee wrote:
Well if an unpaved forest path would get gravel or fine_gravel thrown
on top of it I would consider this some sort of paving that could be
classified as paved. You
Hello all,
I've posted the below message on the forum[1], and have been directed from
there to this mailing list, thus re-posting it.
*Idea*
I would like to suggest making the *paved* key for highways (and probably other
types of elements) official. Taginfo for *paved*:
On 09/20/2014 05:42 PM, Tomasz Kaźmierczak wrote:
I would like to suggest making the paved key for highways (and
probably other types of elements) official. Taginfo for paved:
http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/paved#values
The above shows that the key is already being used, but the Wiki
On Sat, Sep 20, 2014 at 4:59 PM, Richard Welty rwe...@averillpark.net
wrote:
On 09/20/2014 05:42 PM, Tomasz Kaźmierczak wrote:
I would like to suggest making the paved key for highways (and probably
other types of elements) official. Taginfo for paved:
On Sep 20, 2014, at 4:00 PM, Paul Johnson wrote:
On Sat, Sep 20, 2014 at 4:59 PM, Richard Welty rwe...@averillpark.net wrote:
On 09/20/2014 05:42 PM, Tomasz Kaźmierczak wrote:
I would like to suggest making the paved key for highways (and probably
other types of elements) official.
On Sat, Sep 20, 2014 at 6:15 PM, Tod Fitch t...@fitchdesign.com wrote:
It might be considered duplicative, but what should a data consumer do if
confronted with a surface=* value that is unknown to it (and the wiki)? We
aren't talking human intelligence here where an informed guess is
-1, because:
Tomasz Kaźmierczak wrote on 2014-09-20 23:42:
I would like to suggest making the paved key for highways (and probably other
types of elements) official.
Taginfo for paved:
http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/paved#values
The above shows that the key is already being used,
yes, agree strongly. Surface= is a good tag, provides important info but
it is far too fine grained. Someone setting up a route cannot be
expected to sift through all the possible values.
Similarly, we may well have a chance to get the renderers to respect a
clear, on/off tag like the proposed
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