Bryce Nesbitt wrote:
I don't think we really need layers, but could use editors that are
semantically aware of things like boundaries,
and put them in the background until needed.
As far as I see, if we just prevent certain ways or nodes to share nodes
with others
On Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 5:31 AM, Janko Mihelić wrote:
> I don't think we really need layers, but could use editors that are
>> semantically aware of things like boundaries,
>> and put them in the background until needed.
>>
> As far as I see, if we just prevent certain ways or nodes to share nod
is so cluttered with all manner of stuff that those of us that just
want to work with map data have a harder time extracting the data we want.
Nick
-Colin Smale wrote: -
To: talk@openstreetmap.org
From: Colin Smale
Date: 21/10/2013 10:25AM
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Timezones (was: Del
On Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 7:11 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
> It really depends on the legal situation, sometimes sharing nodes is the
> right thing to do (if the boundary is defined as being the river for
> instance), sometimes it is to be seen distinctly (when the boundary is
> defined by indep
2013/10/22 Janko Mihelić
> I don't think we really need layers, but could use editors that are
>> semantically aware of things like boundaries,
>> and put them in the background until needed.
>>
>>
> As far as I see, if we just prevent certain ways or nodes to share nodes
> with others, that is a
On Sat, Oct 19, 2013 at 11:16 PM, Colin Smale wrote:
> I think it might be easier to define a new boundary/multipolygon relation
> per time zone, containing all the boundary ways, in inner and outer roles as
> usual.
Or create a relation collecting all boundaries/multipolygons relations
(and on
Janko Mihelić wrote:
I don't think we really need layers, but could use editors that are
semantically aware of things like boundaries,
and put them in the background until needed.
As far as I see, if we just prevent certain ways or nodes to share nodes with
others, that is as good as
2013/10/22 Bryce Nesbitt
> On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 2:11 PM, Johan C wrote:
>
>> > Essentially what we need is the concept of layers.
>>
>
> I don't think we really need layers, but could use editors that are
> semantically aware of things like boundaries,
> and put them in the background until n
On Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 7:07 AM, Bryce Nesbitt wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 2:11 PM, Johan C wrote:
>
>> > Essentially what we need is the concept of layers.
>>
>
> I don't think we really need layers, but could use editors that are
> semantically aware of things like boundaries,
> and put t
On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 2:11 PM, Johan C wrote:
> > Essentially what we need is the concept of layers.
>
I don't think we really need layers, but could use editors that are
semantically aware of things like boundaries,
and put them in the background until needed.
---
Some boundaries effectivel
> Am 21/ott/2013 um 17:09 schrieb Clifford Snow :
>
> Introducing layers, although difficult to implement, would certainly simplify
> editing. Moving admin boundaries and land use polygons to a layer(s) would
> simplify basic editing. No more connecting roads to boundaries and land use
> edge
> Essentially what we need is the concept of layers.
Layers do have disadvantages, how to prevent data being mapped in the wrong
layer for instance. I however do see the point that mappers, especially
newbies, break administrative boundaries. If that happens a lot, it might
be easier to 'grey them
On 21 October 2013 16:41, Toby Murray wrote:
> Having edited over a thousand of them, I would not be sad to see admin
> boundaries removed from the general OSM database. I think Russ is on to
> something with his "ClosedStreetMap" concept although that is some terrible
> branding so we need anothe
Supposing I wanted to undertake a project to solve this class of
problem, either using layers or areas or something e3lse. I imagine the
project would have a number of peices, since it affects the database,
editors, rendering tools, and heaven knows what else.
On which list would we flesh out
Yes, in that small fraction of cases there would be duplication of
positional data. But in some cases where you think this is the case, it
might actually not be. My county border was defined by a river. Now part of
the river is a reservoir and the other part has shifted over time and
through floods
On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 7:41 AM, Toby Murray wrote:
> Having edited over a thousand of them, I would not be sad to see admin
> boundaries removed from the general OSM database. I think Russ is on to
> something with his "ClosedStreetMap" concept although that is some terrible
> branding so we nee
It is not always possible to separate admin boundaries from real world
features. Rivers, roads or even hedges often define a boundary.
Phil (trigpoint)
--
Sent from my Nokia N9
On 21/10/2013 15:41 Toby Murray wrote:
On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 6:29 AM, Colin Smale wrote:
Back on topic: how do y
On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 6:29 AM, Colin Smale wrote:
>
> Back on topic: how do you phrase an objective rule, or at least
> well-worded guidelines, which allow admin boundaries but disallow time zone
> boundaries? I wonder where the UK ceremonial counties, fire department
> areas, national parks etc
> I'd go the other way and abolish Winter Time. ;-)
> No DST = dark summer evenings. Not nice!
> Going on topic, not sure if something like time zones
> belongs in OSM. Would it not be better to use a more
> specialised web service to look up time zones for a
> given lat/lon? I'd prefer to minim
2013/10/21 Pieren
> It was only a consensus in the group of contributors thinking that
> (which is then easy to reach a consensus).
> This remembers me similars discussions about:
> - hi-res aerial imagery coverage by huge polygons (Yahoo!)
>
agree that this is not really a datum suitable (from
Colin Smale wrote:
My point is, gut feelings aside, that it is not reasonable to single out TZ
boundaries for this deprecation.
Actually having accurate TZ boundaries in OSM is probably more important than
some of the political boundaries. The reason I've been looking into this is
simply beca
Another popular view is that these are problems for the renderer/editor,
not intrinsic issues with the data. Tag as you see fit and the
renderers/editors will catch up! The fact that coastlines are
difficult to maintain with the current toolset is not an argument to not
have them in OSM.
Back
On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 11:19 AM, Colin Smale wrote:
> The traditional consensus is that anyone can put anything
> in OSM
It was only a consensus in the group of contributors thinking that
(which is then easy to reach a consensus).
This remembers me similars discussions about:
- hi-res aerial ima
Nick, this can be done for admin boundaries as well. Would you advocate
removing them from OSM as well? The change to the size of the planet
file if timezones are included is absolutely microscopic in the big
scheme of things. There are clearly many shades of grey. It's a question
of where to dr
I'd go the other way and abolish Winter Time. ;-)
No DST = dark summer evenings. Not nice!
Going on topic, not sure if something like time zones belongs in OSM. Would it
not be better to use a more specialised web service to look up time zones for a
given lat/lon? I'd prefer to minimise overloa
Janko Mihelić wrote:
It's even easier to add the tag on existing countries relations. No
need for extra ways, neither tagging on ways.
+1
Are there any timezones that don't follow country or some other administrative
borders?
This is unfortunatly part of the current problem WITH timez
Some of the anomalies in TZ boundaries can be found here...
http://efele.net/maps/tz/us/ [2]
http://efele.net/maps/tz/world/ [3]
Some boundaries are even "unclear" or "undefined".
On 2013-10-19 22:58, Janko Mihelić wrote:
> 2013/10/19 Pieren
>
>> It's even easier to add the tag on ex
On 2013-10-19 22:38, Pieren wrote:
> On Sat, Oct 19, 2013 at 2:24 PM, Dominik George wrote:
>
>> [1]: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:timezone [1]
>
> It's even easier to add the tag on existing countries relations. No
> need for extra ways, neither tagging on ways.
Countries, or ot
2013/10/19 Pieren
>
> It's even easier to add the tag on existing countries relations. No
> need for extra ways, neither tagging on ways.
>
+1
Are there any timezones that don't follow country or some other
administrative borders?
Janko
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On Sat, Oct 19, 2013 at 2:24 PM, Dominik George wrote:
> [1]: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:timezone
It's even easier to add the tag on existing countries relations. No
need for extra ways, neither tagging on ways.
Pieren
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Although not very interested in both myself, I admit that people inteersted in
timezones will help maintaining admin boundaries. It's a small set of data to
maintain.
Yves
Russ Nelson a écrit :
>Mike N writes:
> > On 10/19/2013 12:20 PM, Russ Nelson wrote:
>> > Filters are your friend. That's
Mike N writes:
> On 10/19/2013 12:20 PM, Russ Nelson wrote:
> > Filters are your friend. That's why they exist. I hate seeing borders,
> > so I filter them out. I don't delete them.
> >
> > Filters are our version of layering.
>
>With one exception: if nodes are shared, I can't see the
On 10/19/2013 12:20 PM, Russ Nelson wrote:
Filters are your friend. That's why they exist. I hate seeing borders,
so I filter them out. I don't delete them.
Filters are our version of layering.
With one exception: if nodes are shared, I can't see the damage I
might be doing to another layer
Mike N writes:
>I have deleted some local railway=abandoned ways that were long since
> buried by buildings or the entire landscape bulldozed down, but found
> that they 'grew back'. So my compromise is to set them as
> railway=dismantled. Thus they are a true OSM historical feature.
On Sat, Oct 19, 2013 at 7:25 AM, Jason Remillard
wrote:
> Everybody has these rules of thumb about what OSM is and isn't. I
> could write a couple of pages with all of my "rules" about imports.
> But, my number one rule is that if there is a individual or group that
> want to maintain a specific s
On 10/19/2013 10:25 AM, Jason Remillard wrote:
But, my number one rule is that if there is a individual or group that
want to maintain a specific set of data in OSM (timezones, ancient
rail roads, protected zones in the ocean, etc), we should give them as
much latitude as possible to do it.
I a
Philip Barnes writes:
> On Sat, 2013-10-19 at 10:10 -0400, Russ Nelson wrote:
> > Philip Barnes writes:
> > > So we should not include country, state, principality, county, city,
> > > town, parish boundaries either as unless its an island aren't surveyable
> > > either.
> >
> > If Close
On Sat, 2013-10-19 at 10:10 -0400, Russ Nelson wrote:
> Philip Barnes writes:
> > So we should not include country, state, principality, county, city,
> > town, parish boundaries either as unless its an island aren't surveyable
> > either.
>
> If ClosedStreetMap.com was more than a figment of m
Hi,
Everybody has these rules of thumb about what OSM is and isn't. I
could write a couple of pages with all of my "rules" about imports.
But, my number one rule is that if there is a individual or group that
want to maintain a specific set of data in OSM (timezones, ancient
rail roads, protected
Philip Barnes writes:
> So we should not include country, state, principality, county, city,
> town, parish boundaries either as unless its an island aren't surveyable
> either.
If ClosedStreetMap.com was more than a figment of my imagination we
would store them there, not in OSM, yes.
For exa
On Sat, 2013-10-19 at 09:28 -0400, Russ Nelson wrote:
> Frederik Ramm writes:
> > Hi,
> >
> > On 10/19/2013 12:04 PM, moltonel 3x Combo wrote:
> > > I'd
> > > love to replace the unwieldy timezone selector of many programs with a
> > > clickable map generated from OSM. So, do timezones reall
Frederik Ramm writes:
> Hi,
>
> On 10/19/2013 12:04 PM, moltonel 3x Combo wrote:
> > I'd
> > love to replace the unwieldy timezone selector of many programs with a
> > clickable map generated from OSM. So, do timezones really "make no sense
> > in OSM" ?
>
> No they make no sense in OSM.
2013/10/19 Dominik George
> oh, and what about opening_hours, service_times, collection_times ...
> those are normally given in the local time of the object being tagged,
>
usually they aren't in the local time but in the time of the local
timezone. ;-)
Cheers,
Martin
_
Frederik Ramm wrote:
Time zones, in contrast, are
* orders of magnitude less useful than admin boundaries (most countries will
simply have one time zone for the whole country)
* not useful for mappers
* readily available in shape file form
so why map them?
Except that the currently available
> > * not useful for mappers
>
> oh, and what about opening_hours, service_times, collection_times ...
> those are normally given in the local time of the object being tagged,
> maybe users would want to be able to interpret that without having to
> use external data sources?
Then, the Wiki [1] s
Hi,
> * not useful for mappers
oh, and what about opening_hours, service_times, collection_times ...
those are normally given in the local time of the object being tagged,
maybe users would want to be able to interpret that without having to
use external data sources?
-nik
--
* mirabilos is ha
Hi,
On 10/19/2013 12:56 PM, Colin Smale wrote:
So how does that differ from admin boundaries?
Admin boundaries are:
* generally much more useful than time zone boundaries
* especially, very useful for mapping as they are closely related to
other stuff we map, e.g. a road ref will change at t
In the US I believe cities and counties can overrule state time, including DST
rules. This is from memory as I am on the road at the moment though, so I might
be wrong.
Philip Barnes wrote:
>On Sat, 2013-10-19 at 12:04 +0200,
I am slightly confused by
>the idea put forward by Colin, that it c
On Sat, 2013-10-19 at 12:04 +0200, moltonel 3x Combo wrote:
>
>
> Actually, I always wondered why timezones were kept out of OSM. I know
> DST complicates tagging (it'll be the first thing I abolish when I
> become World Dictator), but it seem like a very usefull "political"
> boundary that I'd
So how does that differ from admin boundaries? I can survey time zones by
asking a sample of people what the time is. On land at least the timezone
boundaries will correspond to some kind of admin boundary, sometimes at a lower
level than you might expect.
Frederik Ramm wrote:
>Hi,
>
>On 10/19
Hi,
On 10/19/2013 12:04 PM, moltonel 3x Combo wrote:
I'd
love to replace the unwieldy timezone selector of many programs with a
clickable map generated from OSM. So, do timezones really "make no sense
in OSM" ?
No they make no sense in OSM. Get/make yourself a shape file from
official sources
On 19 Oct 2013 09:55, "Frederik Ramm" wrote:
> I've recently deleted a large multipolygon that was tagged
"timezone=GMT+1" or someting like that. I admit that I haven't actually
gone there to check ;)
> The Wikipedia-deletionism-kind would be more like "No matter whether this
feature is there in
On 11 November 2010 04:28, hbogner wrote:
> Thats nice but I would like to map time zones as single relation for one
> time zone, as in one relation for time zone UTC +1, one for UTC+2 and so on.
> Which way would be better, to make entire country relation as part of UTC+-X
> relation, or to add p
I found a website offering timezone shape files under a CC0 license:
http://efele.net/maps/tz/world/
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On 19 June 2010 06:37, John Smith wrote:
> On 19 June 2010 04:20, hbogner wrote:
>> I think they are not. I had a project where I had to visualize time
>> zones on Google Maps but had no time zone boundaries and had to
>> improvise them. Are we going to do it? I would like those relations to
>> c
On 19 June 2010 04:20, hbogner wrote:
> I think they are not. I had a project where I had to visualize time
> zones on Google Maps but had no time zone boundaries and had to
> improvise them. Are we going to do it? I would like those relations to
> correct the project and maybe switch it to OSM.
I think they are not. I had a project where I had to visualize time
zones on Google Maps but had no time zone boundaries and had to
improvise them. Are we going to do it? I would like those relations to
correct the project and maybe switch it to OSM.
On 06/18/2010 06:50 AM, SteveC wrote:
> rand
random question that came up on IRC - are the timezones mapped in OSM?
Steve
stevecoast.com
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