Re: [OSM-talk] Could we just pause any wikidata edits for a month or two?

sent from a phone > On 25. Oct 2017, at 08:43, Frederik Ramm wrote: > > Well, certainly Wikipedia links should only be added by people who know > something about the feature in question, and not by a machine that > compares name tags to Wikipedia entries and takes a wild

Re: [OSM-talk] Could we just pause any wikidata edits for a month or two?

25.10.2017 9:43, Frederik Ramm пишет: "Half a good edit" is not good enough though. When we talking about single edit "half-good" is not good. But process of semi-automated and automated wikitags fix could be easily separated in many independent edits even within single changeset(change of

Re: [OSM-talk] Could we just pause any wikidata edits for a month or two?

> > Well, certainly Wikipedia links should only be added by people who know > something about the feature in question, and not by a machine that > compares name tags to Wikipedia entries and takes a wild guess. > I think this is a straw man argument - I don't think anyone is proposing to add tags

Re: [OSM-talk] Could we just pause any wikidata edits for a month or two?

On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 2:22 AM, Tomas Straupis wrote: > > Yuri later tried to change the whole theme from "osm-wikidata-sql > tool" to "new general qa tool" in the same thread. This change gives a > lot of confusion on what are we really talking about. Only when >

Re: [OSM-talk] Could we just pause any wikidata edits for a month or two?

Hi, On 25.10.2017 08:09, Златовратский Павел wrote: > Well. That's the problem in your position: you point to specific > problems and ask to stop whole process. Which "process" exactly are you talking about? There have been many processes mentioned in this discussion. > I met such behaviour

Re: [OSM-talk] Could we just pause any wikidata edits for a month or two?

Hi, On 25.10.2017 05:53, Ryszard Mikke wrote: > You mean "stop any editing, More like "stop any Wikidata-related large-scale editing or setting up of tools that have the intent of causing Wikidata-related large-scale editing". It's totally ok for individuals to add Wikidata links to things

Re: [OSM-talk] Could we just pause any wikidata edits for a month or two?

2017-10-25 8:56 GMT+03:00 Yuri Astrakhan wrote: > Roland, thanks for the links. Local knowledge is very important, but lets > not make it into a sacred cow at the cost of common sense. I have not been > to every single street in New York City. I am nearly 100% sure that all > editors has edited

Re: [OSM-talk] Could we just pause any wikidata edits for a month or two?

25.10.2017 7:46, Tomas Straupis пишет: But this topic has already listed numerous problems with your automated (or semiautomated) edits all around, ignoring local communities etc. You have been asked to stop numerous times. Well. That's the problem in your position: you point to specific

Re: [OSM-talk] Could we just pause any wikidata edits for a month or two?

Roland, thanks for the links. Local knowledge is very important, but lets not make it into a sacred cow at the cost of common sense. I have not been to every single street in New York City. I am nearly 100% sure that all editors has edited objects that were near their location, but that they have

Re: [OSM-talk] Could we just pause any wikidata edits for a month or two?

But what you are saying is very strange if I understood you correctly.  What I read here is that the only people allowed to fix things are those that know ALL tags and their meaning. See https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Welcome_to_Wikipedia_users#Original_research_always_wins Or similar

Re: [OSM-talk] Could we just pause any wikidata edits for a month or two?

2017-10-25 6:53 GMT+03:00 Ryszard Mikke wrote: > You mean "stop any editing, cause we need two weeks or two years to make > sure refs are correct and we don't have any other means to remember about > the problem than to leave some obvious mistake everyone will trip over until > we are sure about

Re: [OSM-talk] Could we just pause any wikidata edits for a month or two?

On 24 October 2017 at 17:19, Tomas Straupis wrote: > 2017-10-24 15:56 GMT+03:00 Ryszard Mikke wrote: > > Why, in this case is it better to have Wikipedia links in OSM point to > > disambiguation page instead of link Hillfort 1 in OSM to Hillfort 1 in > > Wikipedia, link

Re: [OSM-talk] Could we just pause any wikidata edits for a month or two?

On 24/10/2017 18:07, Yuri Astrakhan wrote: On Tue, Oct 24, 2017 at 11:19 AM, Tomas Straupis > wrote: 2017-10-24 15:56 GMT+03:00 Ryszard Mikke wrote: > Why, in this case is it better to have Wikipedia links in OSM point to

Re: [OSM-talk] Could we just pause any wikidata edits for a month or two?

On Tue, Oct 24, 2017 at 11:19 AM, Tomas Straupis wrote: > 2017-10-24 15:56 GMT+03:00 Ryszard Mikke wrote: > > Why, in this case is it better to have Wikipedia links in OSM point to > > disambiguation page instead of link Hillfort 1 in OSM to Hillfort 1 in > > Wikipedia,

Re: [OSM-talk] Could we just pause any wikidata edits for a month or two?

2017-10-24 15:56 GMT+03:00 Ryszard Mikke wrote: > Why, in this case is it better to have Wikipedia links in OSM point to > disambiguation page instead of link Hillfort 1 in OSM to Hillfort 1 in > Wikipedia, link Hillfort 2 accordingly and fix Wikipedia doubts in > Wikipedia? So that the case is

Re: [OSM-talk] Could we just pause any wikidata edits for a month or two?

Please, PLEASE, stick to the case. The case is: 1) there are two hillforts, let's call them Hillfort 1 and Hillfort 2 for simplicity. 2) both have big information tables on the ground, with their names on them 3) so they are named Hillfort 1 and Hillfort 2 in OSM and nobody objects that. 4) both

Re: [OSM-talk] Could we just pause any wikidata edits for a month or two?

Andy, both sr: and sq: languages describe the same CONCEPT - "republic of Serbia". Both articles mention Kosovo as a territory with the special status. So the content is the same, and both can be used to describe the ground truth of Republic of Serbia. The articles just choose to show a slightly

Re: [OSM-talk] Could we just pause any wikidata edits for a month or two?

On 23/10/2017 12:39, Tomas Straupis wrote: How were the people asked? I can only see very short note in Lithuanian. I can' understand it, but it doesn't seem like "do not touch" request... Have you noticed the title of this thread? ;-) For completeness, I pointed this out 11 months ago,

Re: [OSM-talk] Could we just pause any wikidata edits for a month or two?

>> There was a link to disambiguation page which was detected using >> other tool which is not using wikidata. > Could you point me to that tool? It is a local Lithuanian tool. But here you can have a look at results: http://patrulis.openmap.lt/wikipedia.html > That's exactly my point. I

Re: [OSM-talk] Could we just pause any wikidata edits for a month or two?

On 23/10/2017 11:40, Ryszard Mikke wrote: That seems like a problem to fix in Wikipedia Part of the problem is that some of these problems simply aren't fixable at wikipedia.  For example https://sr.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A1%D1%80%D0%B1%D0%B8%D1%98%D0%B0 and

Re: [OSM-talk] Could we just pause any wikidata edits for a month or two?

On 23 October 2017 at 07:17, Tomas Straupis wrote: > 2017-10-22 23:20 GMT+03:00 Ryszard Mikke wrote: > > So, to sum up: > > 1) There was a link to disambiguation page that no one has corrected > until > > it was detected by Yuri's tool. > > There was a link to

Re: [OSM-talk] Could we just pause any wikidata edits for a month or two?

So, to sum up: 1) There was a link to disambiguation page that no one has corrected until it was detected by Yuri's tool. 2) User kartonage has wrongly linked "Žagarės I piliakalnis" to "Žagarės II piliakalnis" in Wikipedia. 3) You have reverted it back to disambiguation link and no wikidata=*

Re: [OSM-talk] Could we just pause any wikidata edits for a month or two?

2017-10-22 23:20 GMT+03:00 Ryszard Mikke wrote: > So, to sum up: > 1) There was a link to disambiguation page that no one has corrected until > it was detected by Yuri's tool. There was a link to disambiguation page which was detected using other tool which is not using wikidata. That other

Re: [OSM-talk] Could we just pause any wikidata edits for a month or two?

On 15 October 2017 at 16:05, Tomas Straupis wrote: > Lets take an example. History of this hillfort: > http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/1717783246/history > > What happened here: > 1. I've added a hillfort object "Žagarės piliakalnis" (Žagarės hillfort). > 2. Med

[Talk-cz] Wikidata a roboeditace - Was: WeeklyOSM CZ 374 (Was was: [OSM-talk] Could we just pause any wikidata edits for a month or two?)

On 10/18/2017 11:34 AM, Tom Ka wrote: Ahoj, je dostupné vydání 374 týdeníku WeeklyOSM: http://www.weeklyosm.eu/cz/archives/9476 * Stáří zástavby podle OSM? * Posledních 15 schránek v Brně. * Statistiky slovenské DB fotek. * Telenav data v Kanadě. * PT_Assistant pro JOSM. * Mapování kanadských

Re: [OSM-talk] Could we just pause any wikidata edits for a month or two?

On 18/10/17 05:14, Yuri Astrakhan wrote: > Lester, I agree with you that Wikidata should not contain an object for > everything that OSM may have.  I don't believe there should be an entry > for every McDonalds on the planet, or for every artist's work that > someone may decide to include in OSM. 

Re: [OSM-talk] Could we just pause any wikidata edits for a month or two?

Lester, I agree with you that Wikidata should not contain an object for everything that OSM may have. I don't believe there should be an entry for every McDonalds on the planet, or for every artist's work that someone may decide to include in OSM. But that's up to Wikidata contributors. Lets

Re: [OSM-talk] Could we just pause any wikidata edits for a month or two?

On 16/10/17 05:24, Minh Nguyen wrote: > When a Wikidata item is modified to link to a Wikipedia article (or > Wikivoyage article etc.), the Wikipedia article automatically links back > to the Wikidata item. This is a software feature made possible because > Wikipedia and Wikidata are colocated in

Re: [OSM-talk] Could we just pause any wikidata edits for a month or two?

On 15/10/2017 05:39, Michael Reichert wrote: And even if detecting disambiguation pages in Wikipedia would miss too much of them, you could use Wikidata to check if the Wikipedia page the Wikidata item points to is a disambiguation page according to Wikidata? While wroting the paragraph above,

Re: [OSM-talk] Could we just pause any wikidata edits for a month or two?

Lets take an example. History of this hillfort: http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/1717783246/history What happened here: 1. I've added a hillfort object "Žagarės piliakalnis" (Žagarės hillfort). 2. Med fixed wikipedia tag (removed underscores - good change, my mistake fixed). 3. I've

Re: [OSM-talk] Could we just pause any wikidata edits for a month or two?

If a community has had a well established and agreed process running, which does not create any new data issues, why should someone outside of that community be requesting a global halt? It's not like the data is getting worse all of a sudden, right? And their work does not prevent global

Re: [OSM-talk] Could we just pause any wikidata edits for a month or two?

Hi Ryszard, Am 2017-10-12 um 22:41 schrieb Ryszard Mikke: > On 3 October 2017 at 18:56, Christoph Hormann wrote: > >> On Tuesday 03 October 2017, Frederik Ramm wrote: >>> Hi, >>> >>>seeing that the matter is discussed quite intensively and opinions >>> vary widely, could we

Re: [OSM-talk] Could we just pause any wikidata edits for a month or two?

Hi Ryszard, Am 2017-10-13 um 01:11 schrieb Ryszard Mikke: > On 12 October 2017 at 23:23, Christoph Hormann wrote: > >> As i have pointed out elsewhere doing QA in OSM based on Wikidata does >> not in any way depend on the automatic addition of Wikidata IDs to >> OSM - or in

Re: [OSM-talk] Could we just pause any wikidata edits for a month or two?

On 3 October 2017 at 18:56, Christoph Hormann wrote: > * systematic wikidata ID addition/editing efforts (there seems to be > nothing listed currently on > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Category:Automated_edits_log) That may be because there is a bug in wiki, that I

Re: [OSM-talk] Could we just pause any wikidata edits for a month or two?

On 12 October 2017 at 23:23, Christoph Hormann wrote: > As i have pointed out elsewhere doing QA in OSM based on Wikidata does > not in any way depend on the automatic addition of Wikidata IDs to > OSM - or in other words: Any ID you'd add based on some matching > algorithm just

Re: [OSM-talk] Could we just pause any wikidata edits for a month or two?

On Thursday 12 October 2017, Ryszard Mikke wrote: > > * How many of the wikidata=* tags currently in the database have been > > > added through normal mapping (while adding or significantly > > modifying the object otherwise) and how many have been added > > through systematic efforts outside

Re: [OSM-talk] Could we just pause any wikidata edits for a month or two?

On 3 October 2017 at 23:21, Yuri Astrakhan wrote: > While I have nothing against pausing bulk wikidata additions for a month, > we should be very clear here: > * several communities use bots to maintain and inject these tags, e.g. > Israel. Should they pause their bots?

Re: [OSM-talk] Could we just pause any wikidata edits for a month or two?

On 3 October 2017 at 18:56, Christoph Hormann wrote: > On Tuesday 03 October 2017, Frederik Ramm wrote: > > Hi, > > > >seeing that the matter is discussed quite intensively and opinions > > vary widely, could we perhaps agree to pause any (large scale) > > wikidata edits for

Re: [OSM-talk] Could we just pause any wikidata edits for a month or two?

On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 3:52 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > yes, currently it doesn’t seem the deletionists are active in wikidata, > but also wikipedia was not always like it is today. The notability policy > is there and one day someone might come and say: these

Re: [OSM-talk] Could we just pause any wikidata edits for a month or two?

sent from a phone > On 12. Oct 2017, at 20:17, Eugene Alvin Villar wrote: > > Wikidata's notability policy is actually very liberal. If you're familiar > with the Inclusionist versus Deletionist debate in Wikipedia, Wikidata is > heaven for Inclusionists. For instance,

Re: [OSM-talk] Could we just pause any wikidata edits for a month or two?

On Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 9:02 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > From what I have seen so far, this should probably be less of a concern, > but it is an uncertainty (because it could be interpreted more rigidly in > the future), I agree. Requirements seem to be much lower

Re: [OSM-talk] Could we just pause any wikidata edits for a month or two?

sent from a phone > On 11. Oct 2017, at 16:59, Rory McCann wrote: > > No-one's said it yet, but to me, that's a con. Not everyone likes the > share-alike requirement, and that's fine. But there are people, like me, > who think "share-alike" is a pro. I also like the

Re: [OSM-talk] Could we just pause any wikidata edits for a month or two?

Hi all, On 11/10/17 15:02, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: For me, criterions pro wikidata are: - it has a very permissive license (cc0) No-one's said it yet, but to me, that's a con. Not everyone likes the share-alike requirement, and that's fine. But there are people, like me, who think

Re: [OSM-talk] Could we just pause any wikidata edits for a month or two?

On Wednesday 11 October 2017, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > From what I have seen so far, this should probably be less of a > concern, > > but it is an uncertainty (because it could be interpreted more > rigidly in the future) I am not judging here, i merely stated the observation that Wikidata

Re: [OSM-talk] Could we just pause any wikidata edits for a month or two?

2017-10-11 13:42 GMT+02:00 Christoph Hormann : > * Wikidata is definitely not suited as an universal meta-database > connecting OSM with other open data sets. This is because of the > Notability concept (https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Notability) > which practically

Re: [OSM-talk] Could we just pause any wikidata edits for a month or two?

On Wednesday 11 October 2017, Minh Nguyen wrote: > Great questions. I've attempted to answer a few of them below: Thanks for the effort - but from my point of view these answers mostly do not actually address the key points of my questions. I have made some progress getting answers to some of

Re: [OSM-talk] Could we just pause any wikidata edits for a month or two?

Great questions. I've attempted to answer a few of them below: On 03/10/2017 09:56, Christoph Hormann wrote: * To what extent has there been information transferred systematically from Wikidata and Wikipedia to OSM based on wikidata ID references (like adding names in different languages). As

Re: [OSM-talk] Could we just pause any wikidata edits for a month or two?

On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 11:20 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > Maybe because these are seen as facts and not copyrightable? > Ignoring the issue regarding the provenance of geographic coordinates, for other types of data (like names), it is the position of the Wikimedia

Re: [OSM-talk] Could we just pause any wikidata edits for a month or two?

On Tue, 2017-10-03 at 17:21 -0400, Yuri Astrakhan wrote: > While I have nothing against pausing bulk wikidata additions for a > month, > we should be very clear here: > * several communities use bots to maintain and inject these tags, > e.g. > Israel. Should they pause their bots? I am the

Re: [OSM-talk] Could we just pause any wikidata edits for a month or two?

On 04/10/2017 18:56, Stefan Keller wrote: (questions from Yuri snipped) Anyone? To be honest, that just struck me as more "whataboutery" designed to divert attention from the suggestion at the top of this thread: > pause any (large scale) wikidata edits for a while until more members of

Re: [OSM-talk] Could we just pause any wikidata edits for a month or two?

Hi, 2017-10-04 17:20 GMT+02:00 Martin Koppenhoefer : > there is another aspect that could be added to your list for discussion: I'd suggest to focus on the thread here and to the questions Yuri asked (trying just to understand the background of this discussion):

Re: [OSM-talk] Could we just pause any wikidata edits for a month or two?

On Wednesday 04 October 2017, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > there is another aspect that could be added to your list for > discussion: wikipedia and wikidata integration on osm tag definition > wiki pages. > > * Some wiki editors seem to believe, the first word of a osm tag > definition should be a

Re: [OSM-talk] Could we just pause any wikidata edits for a month or two?

there is another aspect that could be added to your list for discussion: wikipedia and wikidata integration on osm tag definition wiki pages. * Some wiki editors seem to believe, the first word of a osm tag definition should be a link to a wikipedia article about something related to this tag,

Re: [OSM-talk] Could we just pause any wikidata edits for a month or two?

While I have nothing against pausing bulk wikidata additions for a month, we should be very clear here: * several communities use bots to maintain and inject these tags, e.g. Israel. Should they pause their bots? * If a specific community is ok with it, does it override world wide ban for that

Re: [OSM-talk] Could we just pause any wikidata edits for a month or two?

Yes I support a pause. I feel that currently one side tries to outgun the other with rather brute force mechanical editing. Michael ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Could we just pause any wikidata edits for a month or two?

On Tuesday 03 October 2017, Frederik Ramm wrote: > Hi, > >seeing that the matter is discussed quite intensively and opinions > vary widely, could we perhaps agree to pause any (large scale) > wikidata edits for a while until more members of our community have > had a chance to form an opinion?

Re: [OSM-talk] Could we just pause any wikidata edits for a month or two?

On 3 October 2017 at 11:02, Frederik Ramm wrote: >seeing that the matter is discussed quite intensively and opinions > vary widely, could we perhaps agree to pause any (large scale) wikidata > edits for a while until more members of our community have had a chance > to

[OSM-talk] Could we just pause any wikidata edits for a month or two?

Hi, seeing that the matter is discussed quite intensively and opinions vary widely, could we perhaps agree to pause any (large scale) wikidata edits for a while until more members of our community have had a chance to form an opinion? I mean it's fine for people to add some wikidata link to