[Talk-GB] Another UPRN/ oddity
Here's a good one... I know the street at: https://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=52.54633=-1.91892#map=19/52.54633/-1.91892 which is a side-loop off the Queslett Road dual carriageway (and, indeed is the original alignment of Queslett Road, before the dual carriageway was built), as being also "Queslett Road". OSM sensibly agrees with me, as does Royal Mail's address/postcode-finder. As did a friend who lived there, many years ago. OSM has it as most (but not the western extremity) of this way: https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/21585974 all of this one: (under the M6 motorway) https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/400244529 and the southern segment only, of this one: https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/400244530#map=18/52.54747/-1.91762: The house nearest to my marker is 229 Queslett Road. Its UPRN is 100070487637; and the government flood warning service also says its address is Queslett Road: https://flood-warning-information.service.gov.uk/long-term-flood-risk/risk?address=100070487637 But the USRN for the loop is given on "Find My Street" as 2708337, which is Booths Lane. I can't link to that, because... well, I don't know why. You can look it u by zooming and scrolling to it via: https://www.findmystreet.co.uk/ Google Maps also calls it Booths Lane. OSM says Booths Lane only starts with: https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/400244530#map=18/52.54747/-1.91762 and my local knowledge concurs. AFAICT, there are no street name plates on that stretch of road. -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Scheduled Monument
On Wed, 2020-07-15 at 10:18 +0100, Tony OSM wrote: > For a building or similar I presently use > > HE_ref=1072653 > heritage=2 > heritage:operator= Historic England > historic= heritage > listed_status=Grade II > name= War Memorial Gateway to Astley Park > barrier=gate > start_date= mid C19 > website= > https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1072653 I forgot to comment before: From a maintenance point of view, is it a good idea to add redundant data (that I assume are implied by HE_ref)? Also: On Thu, 2020-07-16 at 14:10 +0100, Tony OSM wrote: > Yes, maintenance when things change is an issue. > > I've looked at taginfo listed_status and found several variations > for > Scheduled Monument, Grade(value) > > I plan to do several things if there are no objections > > 1. update wiki listed_status to show the capitalised values > Scheduled > Monument, Protected Wreck Site, > Park and Garden, Battlefield, World Heritage Site, Certificate of > Immunity, Building Preservation Notice What happens to, say, a park/garden with a grade, then? Straying a bit from the topic a bit, perhaps it's worth adding something about adding listed things that may not be obvious to everyone. If you find in the HE listings a building (say) you don't already know and want to tag it, presumably it's a problem that you can't just match the position on their OS maps to OSM. I assume you need to take the listed grid reference and just use that (which you probably can't with curtilages etc. or a monument like an ancient ditch, though that's likely on NLS 1:1). The wiki could use info about converting grid references too, unless I missed it. To avoid problems, I've found https://britishlistedbuildings.co.uk useful, as it actually marks the location on OSM, with the grid reference converted to latitude/longitude if you do need it, like when the building isn't mapped. Also, if you're specifically interested in listings in an area the points on the map are helpful, similarly to something like https://maps.cheltenham.gov.uk/map/Aurora.svc/run?script=\Aurora\CBC+ListedBuildings.AuroraScript%24=1762328048=always_Id=FindListedBuilding which presumably is also not usable, specifically not for the conservation areas and the local listings. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Surveying rural buildings
On Mon, 2020-07-20 at 11:29 +0100, Nick wrote: > Dear all > > I have been mapping a few properties using Bing maps with local > knowledge supplemented by some physical measuring (tape measure or > simply pacing). I now want to ramp up my mapping but the challenge > especially in rural areas is that sometimes the outline of a building > is > not clear - either obscured (e.g. trees) or unclear (e.g. decking or > car > ports). Also some aerial imagery is offset. Also, most of the > properties > are not along public roads. So my question is what are the preferred > methods for surveying that others are using? I don't know about preferred, and it sounds as if you want something better, but is OS VectorMapLocal any use? It gives the impression of being machine-derived from imagery (probably not as well as "osmai" in JOSM), and needs significant tidying up using good imagery if you care to do it, but it generally gives a good indication of buildings' presence, at least. It definitely won't help with car ports etc. It would be interesting to know if it does show buildings that are obscured in imagery. I've used it in built-up areas, and I don't remember relevant cases; in one with trees that I remember checking, it wasn't recent enough anyway. I don't think VectorMapLocal is actually listed on the wiki, and it could do with some notes on using it. It's definitely made adding buildings in urban areas easier since I discovered it (from a reference on a web site using it, not OSM info!). Then UPRN and land registry data seem to be useful for splitting building outlines plausibly to aid address surveys. > I guess at the back of my mind is what do people perceive as the > purpose of mapping (hope I have not opened a can of worms). I see the purpose of adding buildings and then address information (especially postcodes) as allowing you to find them using the map for navigation. Your mileage may vary, so to speak. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
[Talk-GB] And the USRN tag proposal page
As promised, here is the second tag proposal page - this time for the USRN (Street). https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/ref:GB:usrn As before, any comments welcome, especially those that would prevent us moving to the voting stage. P.S. Does anyone know if we need to highlight these proposals to the tagging mailing list? If we do, could someone kindly volunteer please. Best regards, *Rob* ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Surveying rural buildings
OSM building data was already used in Poland for flood preparation analysis. It was used to supplement official building dataset, that was of much higher detail and accuracy, but also outdated (updated every N years) and was not including illegally constructed buildings and buildlings not requiring planning permissions (as it was based on construction permits). Jul 22, 2020, 21:37 by n...@foresters.org: > > Hi Mateusz > > > Many thanks for your comments. > > > It would also be good to hear from others, particularly around the > question of the purpose of mapping. I was thinking that my purpose was > to provide other people (OSM mappers and the general public) with the > information that meets their needs. The problem is that without knowing > how people use the maps, identifying the quality of the data is tricky. > The other challenge for people using the maps is not knowing what the > quality is ~ e.g. how comprehensively properties are mapped, precision > in terms of location etc. I also wonder if the quality is good, that > people might use OSM as the map to go to e.g. for Planning applications? > > > Cheers > > > Nick > > On 22/07/2020 13:20, Mateusz Konieczny via Talk-GB wrote: > >> >> >> >> Jul 20, 2020, 12:29 by >> n...@foresters.org>> : >> >>> Dear all >>> >>> I have been mapping a few properties using Bing maps with local >>> knowledge supplemented by some physical measuring (tape measure or >>> simply pacing). I now want to ramp up my mapping but the challenge >>> especially in rural areas is that sometimes the outline of a >>> building is not clear - either obscured (e.g. trees) or unclear >>> (e.g. decking or car ports). Also some aerial imagery is offset. >>> Also, most of the properties are not along public roads. So my >>> question is what are the preferred methods for surveying that >>> others are using? >>> >> Nobody replied so far so... >> >> I am not worried too much about geometry offset, especiallyin rural >> areas where >> moving building to fix offset is usually not problematic. >> >>> Supplementary question, do you include or exclude conservatories, >>> car ports etc. from the main structure of the property? >>> >> It depends. I usually include them in case of armchairmapping of >> aerial images (unless there is >> a visible gap). In mapping during survey it depends whatevercar port >> is part of a building structure >> or a separate structure standing next to house. >> >>> I guess at the back of my mind is what do people perceive as the >>> purpose of mapping (hope I have not opened a can of worms). >>> >> In my case I map what is useful for projects that I use/likeor is >> very simple to map >> (=available as StreetComplete quest). >> >> So right now I map parking lanes for >> >> https://github.com/dabreegster/abstreet >> and in rural areas I tend to map hiking routes rather thanbuildings. >> >> ___Talk-GB mailing list>> >> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb >> ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Surveying rural buildings
Hi Mateusz Many thanks for your comments. It would also be good to hear from others, particularly around the question of the purpose of mapping. I was thinking that my purpose was to provide other people (OSM mappers and the general public) with the information that meets their needs. The problem is that without knowing how people use the maps, identifying the quality of the data is tricky. The other challenge for people using the maps is not knowing what the quality is ~ e.g. how comprehensively properties are mapped, precision in terms of location etc. I also wonder if the quality is good, that people might use OSM as the map to go to e.g. for Planning applications? Cheers Nick On 22/07/2020 13:20, Mateusz Konieczny via Talk-GB wrote: Jul 20, 2020, 12:29 by n...@foresters.org: Dear all I have been mapping a few properties using Bing maps with local knowledge supplemented by some physical measuring (tape measure or simply pacing). I now want to ramp up my mapping but the challenge especially in rural areas is that sometimes the outline of a building is not clear - either obscured (e.g. trees) or unclear (e.g. decking or car ports). Also some aerial imagery is offset. Also, most of the properties are not along public roads. So my question is what are the preferred methods for surveying that others are using? Nobody replied so far so... I am not worried too much about geometry offset, especially in rural areas where moving building to fix offset is usually not problematic. Supplementary question, do you include or exclude conservatories, car ports etc. from the main structure of the property? It depends. I usually include them in case of armchair mapping of aerial images (unless there is a visible gap). In mapping during survey it depends whatever car port is part of a building structure or a separate structure standing next to house. I guess at the back of my mind is what do people perceive as the purpose of mapping (hope I have not opened a can of worms). In my case I map what is useful for projects that I use/like or is very simple to map (=available as StreetComplete quest). So right now I map parking lanes for https://github.com/dabreegster/abstreet and in rural areas I tend to map hiking routes rather than buildings. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Electric vehicle charging points
On Tue, 21 Jul 2020 at 23:12, Nick wrote: > Could the data be included in https://osm.mathmos.net/survey/ ? I had a quick look at the National Charge Point Registry data a while ago. I got as far as plotting a map showing both the OSM charge points and those from the Registry: https://osm.mathmos.net/chargepoint/progress/ . Unfortunately, the Registry data seemed rather incomplete, and not always accurate. It also wasn't clear exactly how to do matching between the two datasets. I then got distracted by other things. Due to the incompleteness of the Registry, there'd be no way to flag OSM charge point objects that shouldn't be there. But if I could sort out some way of matching between the two datasets, I would then be able to add the charge points in the Registry that are "missing" in OSM to https://osm.mathmos.net/survey/ . -- Robert Whittaker ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Surveying rural buildings
Jul 20, 2020, 12:29 by n...@foresters.org: > Dear all > > I have been mapping a few properties using Bing maps with local knowledge > supplemented by some physical measuring (tape measure or simply pacing). I > now want to ramp up my mapping but the challenge especially in rural areas is > that sometimes the outline of a building is not clear - either obscured (e.g. > trees) or unclear (e.g. decking or car ports). Also some aerial imagery is > offset. Also, most of the properties are not along public roads. So my > question is what are the preferred methods for surveying that others are > using? > Nobody replied so far so... I am not worried too much about geometry offset, especially in rural areas where moving building to fix offset is usually not problematic. > Supplementary question, do you include or exclude conservatories, car ports > etc. from the main structure of the property? > It depends. I usually include them in case of armchair mapping of aerial images (unless there is a visible gap). In mapping during survey it depends whatever car port is part of a building structure or a separate structure standing next to house. > I guess at the back of my mind is what do people perceive as the purpose of > mapping (hope I have not opened a can of worms). > In my case I map what is useful for projects that I use/like or is very simple to map (=available as StreetComplete quest). So right now I map parking lanes for https://github.com/dabreegster/abstreet and in rural areas I tend to map hiking routes rather than buildings. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Electric vehicle charging points
I have compared some of the data in my locale against several I have mapped. The NCR data does not indicate - I think - the number of chargepoints at a location - my Local Asda has 4 but only one entry in NCR. Others are missing and some recent ones (in the last year) included. One at my local Nissan dealer is not included. _Could the data be included in _https://osm.mathmos.net/survey/_?_ Be great if it was._ _ _Tony _ On 21/07/2020 23:11, Nick wrote: Could the data be included in https://osm.mathmos.net/survey/ ? On 21/07/2020 22:42, Colin Smale wrote: On 2020-07-21 22:54, Mark Goodge wrote: It's the errors which are more of a problem, because it's generally better not to map something than to map it wrongly. This is a difficult point. Data is never 100% complete, and frequently not 100% accurate. At what point it becomes better not to have the thing in OSM at all, is rather subjective. If the location was only accurate to ±50m, would it still be good enough? If the operator was not tagged, would it still be good enough? Is an "imperfect" object in OSM more likely to get corrected than a missing object is to get added? Should I not add a missing object because I cannot be sure of the "operator" for example? Talking about the charging points data set, how can one detect what is an error? I would say, get the data out there, and let the world feed back any inaccuracies to the source for inclusion in the next version. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Electric vehicle charging points
Collating and conflating is one thing, but we really need to encourage custom data apps like https://www.zap-map.com/ to use OSM as an active database which they feed back to. This will only happen when private companies realise that long term value is not in the data itself (because other people can collect it too) but in the extra deep knowledge gained in curating it, and from services on top of the raw data. On Tue, 21 Jul 2020, 23:12 Nick, wrote: > Could the data be included in https://osm.mathmos.net/survey/ ? > On 21/07/2020 22:42, Colin Smale wrote: > > On 2020-07-21 22:54, Mark Goodge wrote: > > It's the errors which are more of a problem, because it's generally better > not to map something than to map it wrongly. > > This is a difficult point. Data is never 100% complete, and frequently not > 100% accurate. At what point it becomes better not to have the thing in OSM > at all, is rather subjective. > > If the location was only accurate to ±50m, would it still be good enough? > If the operator was not tagged, would it still be good enough? > > Is an "imperfect" object in OSM more likely to get corrected than a > missing object is to get added? Should I not add a missing object because I > cannot be sure of the "operator" for example? Talking about the charging > points data set, how can one detect what is an error? > > I would say, get the data out there, and let the world feed back any > inaccuracies to the source for inclusion in the next version. > > > ___ > Talk-GB mailing > listTalk-GB@openstreetmap.orghttps://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb > > ___ > Talk-GB mailing list > Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb > ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
