Re: [Talk-GB] un-named roads in UK

[Andy Mabbett]

On 30 August 2018 at 10:58, Simon Poole  wrote:

> I can't speak specifically for the UK, but in general I would not consider 
> google of
> any use at all for determining if a road has a name or not.

Potential licensing issues notwithstanding, it's often possible to
read street name signs in Google Streetview.

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Re: [Talk-GB] un-named roads in UK

[Mark Goodge]

On 31/08/2018 15:30, Steve Doerr wrote:

On 30/08/2018 22:26, Mark Goodge wrote:
It was incredibly confusing to visitors, as the hamlet was nowhere 
near the post town. So we inserted "near [parish name]" as the second 
line, when giving the address. 



Off-topic, but the Royal Mail have long discouraged the use of 'Near', 
but they do allow the use of 'Via'.


I know. But they're not equivalent. Just because a location is "near" a 
named place, that does not make it necessary or desirable to travel 
"via" that place to get there. And, since the problem is created by 
Royal Mail's suboptimal approach to postal addresses in rural areas, we 
didn't feel in any way obliged to follow their preferences in the 
matter. The post always got to us anyway; it was non-RM deliveries that 
were the issue.


These days, of course, it wouldn't really matter. Nobody uses the full 
postal address to locate a destination, they just plug the postcode into 
their satnav or other mapping application and then just use the street 
part of the address for the final leg if necessary.


Mark

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Re: [Talk-GB] un-named roads in UK

[Steve Doerr]

On 30/08/2018 22:26, Mark Goodge wrote:
It was incredibly confusing to visitors, as the hamlet was nowhere 
near the post town. So we inserted "near [parish name]" as the second 
line, when giving the address. 



Off-topic, but the Royal Mail have long discouraged the use of 'Near', 
but they do allow the use of 'Via'.



--

Steve


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Re: [Talk-GB] un-named roads in UK

[Steve Doerr]

On 30/08/2018 17:40, Ed Loach wrote:


I missed the start of this thread as I was away, but there are some 
unnamed roads in England with houses on that just have a postal 
address in the format


house name, hamlet name, parish name, postal town

or at least there is the one where I commented on this note:

https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1390266

for this way

https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/26465561



Referred to as Ravens Green Lane in this Historic England listing: 
https://www.historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1147155



Ordnance Survey doesn't seem to give it a name though.


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Re: [Talk-GB] un-named roads in UK

[Simon Poole]

Am 30.08.2018 um 23:26 schrieb Mark Goodge:
> ..
>
> This is actually a problem for OSM, as the address tags don't allow
> for a house number to be attached to anything other than a street
> name. But, in rural areas, it can often be a hamlet name.
>
> ...
Pointing out the obvious, that is what addr:place is for. So it isn't
actually an issue.




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Re: [Talk-GB] un-named roads in UK

[me]

On 29/08/18 21:21, Jubal Harpster wrote:

Rosneath Castle Caravan Park

https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/92291906

https://goo.gl/maps/5zn1EEXwYER2

https://binged.it/2BCrYOr



OSM has the name on the actual caravan park, which sounds more likely:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/114942183


When I looked at this, this my feeling was that this looks like a 
private road to the Caravan Park and therefore is very unlikely to have 
a name.


Also, there has been quite a but a local activity in the area and it 
would be very unlikely that that they would have completely missed this 
if wrong.


Finally I check the council road list and this road isn't listed which 
means that it's unmaintained and increasing the likely hood that it will 
be unnamed.


The caravan site is interesting, from it's website it's probably 
Rosneath Castle Park (without the Caravan) - originally mapped by 
Central America who is based in Edinburgh, it would need a survey to see 
how it's actually signposted.


Cheers
Chris 



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Re: [Talk-GB] un-named roads in UK

[Mark Goodge]

On 30/08/2018 17:40, Ed Loach wrote:
I missed the start of this thread as I was away, but there are some 
unnamed roads in England with houses on that just have a postal address 
in the format


house name, hamlet name, parish name, postal town


I grew up in one that was even more minimal, it was just

house number, hamlet, post town

It was incredibly confusing to visitors, as the hamlet was nowhere near 
the post town. So we inserted "near [parish name]" as the second line, 
when giving the address. But even then it didn't stop delivery drivers 
doing a tour of half the county before finding us :-)


This is actually a problem for OSM, as the address tags don't allow for 
a house number to be attached to anything other than a street name. But, 
in rural areas, it can often be a hamlet name.


Mark

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Re: [Talk-GB] un-named roads in UK

[Ed Loach]

I missed the start of this thread as I was away, but there are some unnamed 
roads in England with houses on that just have a postal address in the format

house name, hamlet name, parish name, postal town

or at least there is the one where I commented on this note:

https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1390266

for this way

https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/26465561

 

Ed

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Re: [Talk-GB] un-named roads in UK

[SK53]

A few general points:

* Google certainly uses OS Open Data for street names in the UK. I
corrected a few a while back via the OSGB feeback and they then filtered
through to Google Maps. In one case the GSV clearly showed the correct name
on the road sign.
* The first couple of examples provided by the MS team look like mobile
home parks/caravan sites. In these cases, as with many industrial estates,
the name most likely does not really belong on the road, and they should be
mapped using addr:place.
* Any potential comparison with PAF-derived data may be awkward from both
OSM's T and those of the Royal Mail. (see discussions of Land Registy
Prices Paid data *inter alia*).
* OS Open Data is a good source of roads which actually have names. I think
the error rate is much lower than when the data was first released in 2010:
at least in part because we have provided feedback. (The most common
significant issue was incorrect position of road name changes).

Jerry


On Thu, 30 Aug 2018 at 11:06, Simon Poole  wrote:

> PS: https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/48658548 in the example actually
> does have a sign and may be an exception or simply an error on behalf of
> the municipality.
>
> Am 30.08.2018 um 11:58 schrieb Simon Poole:
>
> I can't speak specifically for the UK, but in general I would not consider
> google of any use at all for determining if a road has a name or not.
>
> Wit for example https://www.google.ch/maps/@46.7958402,10.2534831,18z Not
> a single of those "named-in-google" streets actually has a name.
>
> Simon
>
> Am 29.08.2018 um 22:21 schrieb Jubal Harpster:
>
> Hi Everyone,
>
>
>
> Our Open Maps team (https://github.com/microsoft/open-maps) has been
> taking a closer look at OSM in the UK.  Some of you may have seen my
> session in Milan where we talked about Microsoft’s ongoing OSM work in
> Australia.
>
>
>
> We found a few examples of roads missing names that we could use some
> local help with. There does not appear to be an official name for the
> examples below and we’re trying to figure out if they came from a local
> source, ground survey or something else entirely.
>
>
>
> *Road Name*
>
> *OSM*
>
> *Google*
>
> *Bing*
>
> Coach road estate
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/67494787
>
> *https://goo.gl/maps/PQXATz4iNMQ2 *
>
> *https://binged.it/2o1mF1v *
>
> Rosneath Castle Caravan Park
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/92291906
>
> *https://goo.gl/maps/5zn1EEXwYER2 *
>
> *https://binged.it/2BCrYOr *
>
> Merville Garden Village
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/139461452
>
> *https://goo.gl/maps/YdH5HCvhTqK2 *
>
> *https://binged.it/2BCq9Rx *
>
> Stadium Mews
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/260127900
>
> https://goo.gl/maps/JJNxamCgLy12
>
> *https://binged.it/2C0LAw1 *
>
>
>
> These are not major roads but they are associated with a large number of
> residential addresses so any help understanding the source of the road
> names would be helpful.
>
>
>
> Thank You
>
> -Jubal
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jharpster
>
> https://github.com/jharpster
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] un-named roads in UK

[Simon Poole]

PS: https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/48658548 in the example actually
does have a sign and may be an exception or simply an error on behalf of
the municipality.


Am 30.08.2018 um 11:58 schrieb Simon Poole:
>
> I can't speak specifically for the UK, but in general I would not
> consider google of any use at all for determining if a road has a name
> or not.
>
> Wit for example https://www.google.ch/maps/@46.7958402,10.2534831,18z
> Not a single of those "named-in-google" streets actually has a name.
>
> Simon
>
>
> Am 29.08.2018 um 22:21 schrieb Jubal Harpster:
>>
>> Hi Everyone,
>>
>>  
>>
>> Our Open Maps team (https://github.com/microsoft/open-maps) has been
>> taking a closer look at OSM in the UK.  Some of you may have seen my
>> session in Milan where we talked about Microsoft’s ongoing OSM work
>> inAustralia.
>>
>>  
>>
>> We found a few examples of roads missing names that we could use some
>> local help with. There does not appear to be an official name for the
>> examples below and we’re trying to figure out if they came from a
>> local source, ground survey or something else entirely.
>>
>>  
>>
>> *Road Name*
>>
>>  
>>
>> *OSM*
>>
>>  
>>
>> *Google*
>>
>>  
>>
>> *Bing*
>>
>> Coach road estate
>>
>>  
>>
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/67494787
>>
>>  
>>
>> _https://goo.gl/maps/PQXATz4iNMQ2_
>>
>>  
>>
>> _https://binged.it/2o1mF1v_
>>
>> Rosneath Castle Caravan Park
>>
>>  
>>
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/92291906
>>
>>  
>>
>> _https://goo.gl/maps/5zn1EEXwYER2_
>>
>>  
>>
>> _https://binged.it/2BCrYOr_
>>
>> Merville Garden Village
>>
>>  
>>
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/139461452
>>
>>  
>>
>> _https://goo.gl/maps/YdH5HCvhTqK2_
>>
>>  
>>
>> _https://binged.it/2BCq9Rx_
>>
>> Stadium Mews
>>
>>  
>>
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/260127900
>>
>>  
>>
>> https://goo.gl/maps/JJNxamCgLy12
>>
>>  
>>
>> _https://binged.it/2C0LAw1_
>>
>>  
>>
>> These are not major roads but they are associated with a large number
>> of residential addresses so any help understanding the source of the
>> road names would be helpful.
>>
>>  
>>
>> Thank You
>>
>> -Jubal
>>
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jharpster
>>
>> https://github.com/jharpster
>>
>>  
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] un-named roads in UK

[Simon Poole]

I can't speak specifically for the UK, but in general I would not
consider google of any use at all for determining if a road has a name
or not.

Wit for example https://www.google.ch/maps/@46.7958402,10.2534831,18z
Not a single of those "named-in-google" streets actually has a name.

Simon


Am 29.08.2018 um 22:21 schrieb Jubal Harpster:
>
> Hi Everyone,
>
>  
>
> Our Open Maps team (https://github.com/microsoft/open-maps) has been
> taking a closer look at OSM in the UK.  Some of you may have seen my
> session in Milan where we talked about Microsoft’s ongoing OSM work
> inAustralia.
>
>  
>
> We found a few examples of roads missing names that we could use some
> local help with. There does not appear to be an official name for the
> examples below and we’re trying to figure out if they came from a
> local source, ground survey or something else entirely.
>
>  
>
> *Road Name*
>
>   
>
> *OSM*
>
>   
>
> *Google*
>
>   
>
> *Bing*
>
> Coach road estate
>
>   
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/67494787
>
>   
>
> _https://goo.gl/maps/PQXATz4iNMQ2_
>
>   
>
> _https://binged.it/2o1mF1v_
>
> Rosneath Castle Caravan Park
>
>   
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/92291906
>
>   
>
> _https://goo.gl/maps/5zn1EEXwYER2_
>
>   
>
> _https://binged.it/2BCrYOr_
>
> Merville Garden Village
>
>   
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/139461452
>
>   
>
> _https://goo.gl/maps/YdH5HCvhTqK2_
>
>   
>
> _https://binged.it/2BCq9Rx_
>
> Stadium Mews
>
>   
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/260127900
>
>   
>
> https://goo.gl/maps/JJNxamCgLy12
>
>   
>
> _https://binged.it/2C0LAw1_
>
>  
>
> These are not major roads but they are associated with a large number
> of residential addresses so any help understanding the source of the
> road names would be helpful.
>
>  
>
> Thank You
>
> -Jubal
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jharpster
>
> https://github.com/jharpster
>
>  
>
>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] un-named roads in UK

[Jez Nicholson]

Although...(note to Jubal)...OSMers in the UK do not use the Royal Mail
(the Postcode Address File or PAF) file as a source of address information.
Lester may have used it to further corroborate a name held in OSM. See
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/UK_2017_Q4_Project:_Addresses_and_Postcodes
for
some info.

BTW, A warm welcome to Jubal and the Microsoft Open Maps team. Talk-GB
involves detail-oriented but generally well-meant discussions.

Regards,
 Jez

On Wed, 29 Aug 2018 at 23:22 Lester Caine  wrote:

> On 29/08/18 21:21, Jubal Harpster wrote:
> > Stadium Mews
> >
> > https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/260127900
> >
> > https://goo.gl/maps/JJNxamCgLy12
> >
> > _https://binged.it/2C0LAw1_
>
> PAF file ... N5 1FP
>
> --
> Lester Caine - G8HFL
> -
> Contact - https://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
> L.S.Caine Electronic Services - https://lsces.co.uk
> EnquirySolve - https://enquirysolve.com/
> Model Engineers Digital Workshop - https://medw.co.uk
> Rainbow Digital Media - https://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk
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Re: [Talk-GB] un-named roads in UK

[Lester Caine]

On 29/08/18 21:21, Jubal Harpster wrote:

Stadium Mews

https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/260127900

https://goo.gl/maps/JJNxamCgLy12

_https://binged.it/2C0LAw1_


PAF file ... N5 1FP

--
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-
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Re: [Talk-GB] un-named roads in UK

[David Woolley]

On 29/08/18 21:21, Jubal Harpster wrote:

Rosneath Castle Caravan Park



https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/92291906



_https://goo.gl/maps/5zn1EEXwYER2_



_https://binged.it/2BCrYOr_



OSM has the name on the actual caravan park, which sounds more likely: 
.


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[Talk-GB] un-named roads in UK

[Jubal Harpster]

Hi Everyone,



Our Open Maps team (https://github.com/microsoft/open-maps) has been taking a 
closer look at OSM in the UK.  Some of you may have seen my session in Milan 
where we talked about Microsoft’s ongoing OSM work in Australia.



We found a few examples of roads missing names that we could use some local 
help with. There does not appear to be an official name for the examples below 
and we’re trying to figure out if they came from a local source, ground survey 
or something else entirely.


Road Name

OSM

Google

Bing

Coach road estate

https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/67494787

https://goo.gl/maps/PQXATz4iNMQ2

https://binged.it/2o1mF1v

Rosneath Castle Caravan Park

https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/92291906

https://goo.gl/maps/5zn1EEXwYER2

https://binged.it/2BCrYOr

Merville Garden Village

https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/139461452

https://goo.gl/maps/YdH5HCvhTqK2

https://binged.it/2BCq9Rx

Stadium Mews

https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/260127900

https://goo.gl/maps/JJNxamCgLy12

https://binged.it/2C0LAw1




These are not major roads but they are associated with a large number of 
residential addresses so any help understanding the source of the road names 
would be helpful.



Thank You

-Jubal

https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jharpster

https://github.com/jharpster


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