[talk-cz] WeeklyOSM CZ 539

[Tom Ka]

Ahoj, je dostupné vydání 539 týdeníku WeeklyOSM:

https://weeklyosm.eu/cz/archives/13975

* Nabíječky pro auta.
* Sdílení tras.
* Chodník slávy.
* 10 let WeeklyOSM.
* Mapování pro bezpečnost.
* Mapování Joe Bidena.
* Výuka jízdy na kole.
* Německé týdenní mapování.
* Solární elektrárny UK.
* Kandidáti do rady OSMF nemapují?
* Rozhovor s Allanem Mustardem.
* 10 let HOT OSM.
* Kola duchů.
* Cyklisté v roce 1897.
* Dlaždice na Debian 11.
* Evropské dopravní informace.
* Data OSM v AWS.
* Dokumentace Osmose QA.
* Filmy a a kvíz s OSM.

Pěkné počtení ...

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Re: [OSM-talk] I’m running for OSMF board and I’ve set up office hours for questions

[stevea]

While I have travelled widely, I call California home (and have for several 
decades) so I unapologetically have a parochial perspective from the USA.  
Clifford, I deeply respect you, Frederik and many others in OSM:  it is a 
global project about all of Earth (and its humanity, among other things).  I 
agree with you about being exhausted at relentlessly hearing a shadowy US 
president repeatedly lie and bluster his way through the most embarrassing 
period of “leadership" in our country’s history.  We (indeed, all of humanity) 
will eventually heal from these wounds.

However, sometimes, as when we have abusive, naked aggression inside of 
(sometimes at the very top of!) institutions, we must call out such atrocious 
behavior.  We call it out to say “we will not stand for this.”  Sometimes, 
colorful language is used to draw attention to this.  Sometimes, because people 
either are not fully aware of this in their experience, wish to turn away from 
looking at evil, or because they are part of those who "say nothing about bad 
men” (in the sense of John Stuart Mill’s quote, while "good men...look on and 
do nothing") the very nature of nasty, disingenuous people who mislead, lie, 
deceive, do not recuse, demand unwarranted loyalty, refuse to play by the 
rules, “stack the (court, Board)," slander… must be so vividly brought to light 
that strong and colorful language IS required.

I understand why Frederik used strong language.  It is (usually) not pleasant 
to countenance what either is or looks like underhandedness, attempts to 
mislead or disingenuous behavior.  Yet among friends, families, groups, 
institutions, companies, societies, facing any ugliness which might rise from 
within is a necessary chore.  Figuratively put a clothespin on your noise at 
the whiff of stink if you must, but let us not censor as “completely 
inappropriate” what are topics of critical importance to the present and future 
of OSM as we discuss the supremely important topic(s) of conflict of interest 
(among others).  These are “front burner” issues and we must not shy away from 
candid discussion about them.  If strong and colorful language must be used 
(and indeed, sometimes it must), let us remain respectful, not make personal 
attacks and offer our very best to keep (national, parochial, partisan…) 
politics out of it, remaining as objective as possible.

These are difficult times.  Let us retain good senses of our humanity, lest we 
devolve from even being human.  OSM has what it takes to make good decisions.  
Every day, today included, we put that to the test.

SteveA


> On Dec 2, 2020, at 5:14 PM, Clifford Snow  wrote:
> 
> Frederik,
> I've had it with four years of listening to Trump. Not only don't I want to 
> hear it on OSM but it's completely inappropriate for a mailing list. Can you 
> please respond in a constructive manner.
> 
> Thanks,
> Clifford
> 
> On Wed, Dec 2, 2020 at 3:45 PM Frederik Ramm  wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> On 12/2/20 23:09, Mateusz Konieczny via talk wrote:
> > FB’s attribution to OSM is available to any viewer in a place that
> > is commonly associated with attribution.
> > 
> > Barely visible icon that must be clicked is not a standard place for
> > attribution.
> 
> Agree with Mateusz, and I'm just flabbergasted how someone can kick our
> license in the groin and have the audacity to ask for the community to
> thank them for it with a board seat, where they will be tasked with
> upholding values they apparently don't share.
> 
> If Mike Migurski at least had the decency to say: "Yeah, my employer
> sucks with attribution, I know, and I'm trying to get it fixed." I
> wouldn't believe him but at least he'd say something that is ok. But
> instead he says "y'all suck with your baseless ideas of attribution,
> please vote for me."
> 
> Anyone who thinks that, once elected, Mike will put OSM's interests
> before those of Facebook because that's his job as a board member, think
> twice. People have thought the same about Donald Trump - yeah, this
> whole grab-them-by-the-pussy talk is just showmanship and once elected
> he'll be more presidential. But don't be fooled. Mike is going to grab
> our licence by the pussy just as he promised he would, and he's being
> paid a fine salary for that from one of the most disturbing mega-corps
> on the planet.
> 
> Bye
> Frederik
> 
> -- 
> Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
> 
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Re: [OSM-talk] I’m running for OSMF board and I’ve set up office hours for questions

[Clifford Snow]

Frederik,
I've had it with four years of listening to Trump. Not only don't I want to
hear it on OSM but it's completely inappropriate for a mailing list. Can
you please respond in a constructive manner.

Thanks,
Clifford

On Wed, Dec 2, 2020 at 3:45 PM Frederik Ramm  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On 12/2/20 23:09, Mateusz Konieczny via talk wrote:
> > FB’s attribution to OSM is available to any viewer in a place that
> > is commonly associated with attribution.
> >
> > Barely visible icon that must be clicked is not a standard place for
> > attribution.
>
> Agree with Mateusz, and I'm just flabbergasted how someone can kick our
> license in the groin and have the audacity to ask for the community to
> thank them for it with a board seat, where they will be tasked with
> upholding values they apparently don't share.
>
> If Mike Migurski at least had the decency to say: "Yeah, my employer
> sucks with attribution, I know, and I'm trying to get it fixed." I
> wouldn't believe him but at least he'd say something that is ok. But
> instead he says "y'all suck with your baseless ideas of attribution,
> please vote for me."
>
> Anyone who thinks that, once elected, Mike will put OSM's interests
> before those of Facebook because that's his job as a board member, think
> twice. People have thought the same about Donald Trump - yeah, this
> whole grab-them-by-the-pussy talk is just showmanship and once elected
> he'll be more presidential. But don't be fooled. Mike is going to grab
> our licence by the pussy just as he promised he would, and he's being
> paid a fine salary for that from one of the most disturbing mega-corps
> on the planet.
>
> Bye
> Frederik
>
> --
> Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
>
> ___
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> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>


-- 
@osm_washington
www.snowandsnow.us
OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch
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Re: [OSM-talk] I’m running for OSMF board and I’ve set up office hours for questions

[Mateusz Konieczny via talk]

Dec 3, 2020, 00:44 by frede...@remote.org:

> Hi,
>
> On 12/2/20 23:09, Mateusz Konieczny via talk wrote:
>
>> FB’s attribution to OSM is available to any viewer in a place that
>>  is commonly associated with attribution.
>>
>> Barely visible icon that must be clicked is not a standard place for
>> attribution.
>>
>
> Agree with Mateusz, and I'm just flabbergasted how someone can kick our
> license in the groin and have the audacity to ask for the community to
> thank them for it with a board seat, where they will be tasked with
> upholding values they apparently don't share.
>
Small note: something went wrong with quotes here, 
I am not author of the first paragraph and I consider it as dubious at
best.
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Re: [OSM-talk] I’m running for OSMF board and I’ve set up office hours for questions

[Mike Thompson]

On Wed, Dec 2, 2020 at 2:56 PM Michal Migurski  wrote:

> In some specific cases there may be a conflict of interest where I’d
> recuse myself, but in general it’s much more likely that FB and other
> companies’ need for a high-quality, free, global map with a healthy org
> behind it is *strongly aligned* with OSMF’s interests.
>
Thanks for running for the board, and for inviting discussion of your
candidacy here. Your willingness to address criticisms headon shows good
character.

I realize that the exact meaning of "conflict of interest" (COI) is going
to vary from organization to organization, and from culture to culture.  I
have worked for a number of corporations in the US where we had mandatory
annual COI training.  A COI was anything where you (and any family member
or other organization you are part of) and the corporation had an interest
in the same issue.  Whether you felt that your interests and the interests
of the corporation were aligned didn't matter.   The reason being that if
you had an interest in something you, whether you realize it or not,  are
going to tend to think that what is in your interest is also in the
interest of everyone else.  For example, since both your employer FB and
the OSMF have an interest in "attribution guidelines", I would think you
should recuse yourself from any work or decision making by the board in
this matter, should you be elected.  Just my 2 cents...

Mike
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Re: [OSM-talk] I’m running for OSMF board and I’ve set up office hours for questions

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

On 12/2/20 23:09, Mateusz Konieczny via talk wrote:
> FB’s attribution to OSM is available to any viewer in a place that
> is commonly associated with attribution.
> 
> Barely visible icon that must be clicked is not a standard place for
> attribution.

Agree with Mateusz, and I'm just flabbergasted how someone can kick our
license in the groin and have the audacity to ask for the community to
thank them for it with a board seat, where they will be tasked with
upholding values they apparently don't share.

If Mike Migurski at least had the decency to say: "Yeah, my employer
sucks with attribution, I know, and I'm trying to get it fixed." I
wouldn't believe him but at least he'd say something that is ok. But
instead he says "y'all suck with your baseless ideas of attribution,
please vote for me."

Anyone who thinks that, once elected, Mike will put OSM's interests
before those of Facebook because that's his job as a board member, think
twice. People have thought the same about Donald Trump - yeah, this
whole grab-them-by-the-pussy talk is just showmanship and once elected
he'll be more presidential. But don't be fooled. Mike is going to grab
our licence by the pussy just as he promised he would, and he's being
paid a fine salary for that from one of the most disturbing mega-corps
on the planet.

Bye
Frederik

-- 
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"

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Re: [OSM-talk] I’m running for OSMF board and I’ve set up office hours for questions

[Niels Elgaard Larsen]

Michal Migurski:

Hi Robert, Martin, Alexandre, Jochen, Richard, Tom:

Thanks for your followups in this conversation! I am speaking here as an individual 
and not on behalf of Facebook, 


great.
...


First, the text of the ODbL is explicit about “reasonably calculated” awareness. FB 
believes its maps comply with this.


So speaking as an individual, do *you* believe that FB complies with the ODbBL?


--
Niels Elgaard Larsen

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Re: [OSM-talk] I’m running for OSMF board and I’ve set up office hours for questions

[Alexandre Oliveira]

> First, the text of the ODbL is explicit about “reasonably calculated” 
> awareness. FB believes its maps comply with this. The ODbL does not require 
> that “every” person see the attribution. It requires that “any” person can. 
> FB’s attribution to OSM is available to any viewer in a place that is 
> commonly associated with attribution.
Not true. The button is barely visible and only those really looking
for attribution will be able to spot the button, and even then it's
very easy to miss the button.


>  I don’t want to repeat myself too much, but the ODbL is very terse and 
> leaves a lot of room for interpretation.
Uhh, except not? It leaves a lot of room for interpretation because
corporate users want to read imaginary text between the lines. The
ODbL license text is crystal clear that the attribution should be
somewhere visible, and hiding under interaction of a nearly-hidden
button is not visible.


> Common practices for data attribution in map and non-map domains rely on 
> click-through interactions like the ones FB uses.
This image shows otherwise[0]


> and that the words in the corner of a map are relevant to how that basemap 
> was produced and not (for example) the location of a friend or venue overlaid 
> on top of it.
I would agree with you if FB and Mapbox (another corporate user that
doesn't attribute OSM correctly) used OSM data solely for displaying
POIs, which isn't the case.


> My interest as a board member is in maintaining this open approach to uses 
> that are bigger, weirder, more niche, or otherwise different than OSM might 
> have previously imagined.
By undermining attribution of a big, open and free dataset, it would
only please corporate users.


> but in general it’s much more likely that FB and other companies’ need for a 
> high-quality, free, global map with a healthy org behind it is *strongly 
> aligned* with OSMF’s interests.
Nope. The corporate users want a free database, so they don't have to
pay a single cent of royalties to who produced the database. They want
to use something free and open, but don't want to credit it. They want
to change attribution guidelines so they don't have to worry about
potential lawsuits that may follow.

I really don't understand how hard is it to add a text on the corner
of the map including the words "(c) OpenStreetMap contributors" and
linking to the project. You're not paying and once you add attribution
you shouldn't worry about it anymore. Why do corporate users have to
make things so hard?


Corporate users have succeeded in pushing their agenda in the working
group writing the attribution guidelines draft. Just take a look,
there are so many examples accepted by the WG that go against what's
written in the ODbL (splash screen being one of them)[1].

[0] https://www.systemed.net/osm/attribution.png
[1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Draft_Attribution_Guideline/2020v2

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Re: [OSM-talk] I’m running for OSMF board and I’ve set up office hours for questions

[Phil Wyatt]

Hi Michal,,

 

> Successful attribution guidelines published by the OSMF will make it much 
> easier to decide how to interpret the ODbL.

 

The problem is, I expect the current draft will not get support from the 
community so for me its back to my original question.

 

Given the community concern about the lack of ‘community required attribution’ 
by Facebook (and other major corporations) do you think it would be beneficial 
for Facebook to take a corporate lead in updating attribution to that accepted 
by the community, without the need for further guidelines. I have found that 
when requested politely to update the attribution as requested at 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright, most organisations do the right thing 
by the community.

 

To me this has more to do with how much Facebook values the OSM Community…not a 
legal definition/interpretation of ODbL licencing

 

Cheers – Phil

 

 

From: Michal Migurski  
Sent: Thursday, 3 December 2020 8:51 AM
To: talk@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] I’m running for OSMF board and I’ve set up office hours 
for questions

 

Hi Robert, Martin, Alexandre, Jochen, Richard, Tom:

Thanks for your followups in this conversation! I am speaking here as an 
individual and not on behalf of Facebook, so I’m going to focus on the areas 
relevant to board candidacy.
 
First, the text of the ODbL is explicit about “reasonably calculated” 
awareness. FB believes its maps comply with this. The ODbL does not require 
that “every” person see the attribution. It requires that “any” person can. 
FB’s attribution to OSM is available to any viewer in a place that is commonly 
associated with attribution.

Successful attribution guidelines published by the OSMF will make it much 
easier to decide how to interpret the ODbL. As a board member with experience 
in cartography design & implementation and OSM-relevant companies my 
involvement will make it more likely that the eventual attribution guidelines 
work for everyone.

A few of you have pushed back on my “beyond the ODbL” framing in my prior 
reply. I don’t want to repeat myself too much, but the ODbL is very terse and 
leaves a lot of room for interpretation. Common practices for data attribution 
in map and non-map domains rely on click-through interactions like the ones FB 
uses. This is a completely reasonable way to make users aware of the source of 
map data to the extent that viewers know that maps are made of data, that it is 
often sourced externally, and that the words in the corner of a map are 
relevant to how that basemap was produced and not (for example) the location of 
a friend or venue overlaid on top of it. The community here on talk@ is 
understandably focused on basemap attribution, but in the context of the many 
hundreds of ways that FB uses maps in its products and the many sources of that 
data, there’s also important design and interaction considerations with 
dramatically more needs to keep in balance. The power of OSM has always been 
its openness to new kind of uses beyond simple display maps. My interest as a 
board member is in maintaining this open approach to uses that are bigger, 
weirder, more niche, or otherwise different than OSM might have previously 
imagined.

Second, Jochen examines further the issue of conflict of interest. All of us 
involved in OSM represent a variety of interests that we bring to the map. My 
candidacy for the board is explicitly driven by a desire to see commercial and 
organizational use of OSM better represented in the OSMF. In some specific 
cases there may be a conflict of interest where I’d recuse myself, but in 
general it’s much more likely that FB and other companies’ need for a 
high-quality, free, global map with a healthy org behind it is *strongly 
aligned* with OSMF’s interests. I’ve held this belief for many years and in 
many organizations. As a board member I would work with members representing 
other OSM constituencies to make sure all these overlapping needs and desires 
lead to an OSM that’s stronger together.

Thanks everyone for your words in the thread so far. The annual election 
process is important because it’s one of the only venues OSM has typically had 
to ask itself tough questions and make important decisions.

-mike.



michal migurski- contact info and pgp key:
sf/cahttp://mike.teczno.com/contact.html





On Nov 30, 2020, at 11:00 AM, Michal Migurski mailto:m...@teczno.com> > wrote:

 

Hi everyone,

 

I’m excited to be running for the OSMF board this year! In 2021, OSM’s 
community has two opportunities to grow stronger together: we should make the 
OSM organization support a wider diversity of participants and we must succeed 
at starting to manage our technical operations professionally.


I’d like to make myself available for conversations with anyone who has 
questions about my candidacy, manifesto, priorities, or really anything 

Re: [OSM-talk] time to review

[Mario Frasca]

Dear Steve, thank you for reminding me there's something called ESRI.

they approached the Telegram group in March last year:

https://t.me/Comunidad_OSM_Panama/1641 



we were invited to a meeting, and I was able to accept the invitation.

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/ES:Panam%C3%A1/Reuni%C3%B3n_2019-03-21

this was in preparation of an ESRI event celebrating the 500 years of 
the city of Panama.  I had always assumed the event never took place.  
and I now guess it was this GisDay.  was it around November13th 2019?  
please notice how downplayed the role of YMUP.


the activity in Guna Nega do seem to follow step 1 in my 
recommendations, and it disregards all subsequent steps, in particular 
the last one.


needless to say, I never received feedback, nor acknowledgement for the 
input I provided during the meeting.


oh well.

Mario

On 02/12/2020 16:44, Steve Friedl wrote:


FWIW, GIS Day is a thing: https://www.gisday.com/en-us/overview 



The local Governmental GIS Users group near me in California 
celebrates it every year, though this year only virtually.


No comment on the rest, just answering one data point.

Steve

---

Steve Friedl // Software guy + Volunteer mapper // Southern California USA

st...@unixwiz.net [OSM:SJFriedl] // OpenStreetMap MWG //  Fix ALL the 
maps!


*From:* Mario Frasca 
*Sent:* Wednesday, December 2, 2020 1:24 PM
*To:* Rory Nealon 
*Cc:* OSM Talk 
*Subject:* Re: [OSM-talk] time to review

Hi Rory,

let's include the list, so you're talking with the whole community, 
not just to me.


BACKGROUND: we're trying to have the YouthMappers Chapter of the 
University of Panama consider they're mapping within OSM, that there's 
a local community of mappers already mapping, and with some experience 
in different fields.


unfortunately, the YMUP Chapter refuses to reply to comments to their 
changesets, or to consider complaints about their low quality of 
edits, and the sheer mass of beginners they throw into not-too-simple 
tasks.  recently they had their yearly "Gis Day", please don't ask me 
what it is, because I don't know, only that there's a hashtag being 
used once a year by the YouthMappers UP Chapter.  also please don't 
ask me who's inside this chapter, because I don't know.


when Mateusz wrote to i...@youthmappers.org 
 about their organized editing activity 
without declaration of intents, the result of his writing was that HOT 
opened two projects on top of two areas we from the community were 
editing using the tasking manager from tareas.openstreetmap.co, 
forcing us to clean up the edits while they were coming in.  that's 
Santiago and Colón.


in Santiago we reverted several changesets, and made the effort to 
close their project so they would stay away from the work which was 
anyway almost complete.


in Colón we stopped editing downtown, leaving it to the YMUP Chapter.

there's still no published plan from the chapter, Rory says that they 
are reviewing the tasks they had opened, but apart from beginner 
mapper agreenish , 
arguably adding to the mass of mistakes, I don't see much editing 
activity in either project.


I will write a diary entry, with images, and will try to make it a 
structured presentation of what goes on here.  there's statistical 
data I've collected that shows just how organized the edits from YMUP, 
and I find it quite insulting, the mismatch between the words by 
YouthMappers International, the call for patience by HOT, and the 
continued self-boasting by this local Chapter, while we need to do the 
cleaning up.


you know … I am editing Morocco, that's more relaxing. hopefully no 
YouthMappers there.


ciao,

Mario

On 02/12/2020 15:52, Rory Nealon wrote:

Hi Mario,

Sorry for not getting back to you sooner.  I will try and contact
the chapter and get an answer for you.  The last I heard was that
they had begun to validate the tasks they had created.

Cheers,

Rory

On Sun, Nov 29, 2020 at 4:53 PM Mario Frasca mailto:ma...@anche.no>> wrote:

Dear Rory,

let me insist, I wish to have an estimate of how long we
should wait,
for the YMUP to review their edits?

as you have read from his complaint to YMI, Markusz assumes
something
like "at the end of the day", even if he wrote the complaint 4
days
after the edit — which he fixed himself.

maybe too strict myself, because I would say "the next day",
which could
be "the next available day".

in particular since this looks like episodic edits, not
ongoing activities.

so, what is the time we should allow before concluding they
abandoned
the location?

a week?  (slow, but could fit in a low activity group)

a month?  (very slow, one forgets what they were doing)

a year?  (ah? next 

Re: [OSM-talk] I’m running for OSMF board and I’ve set up office hours for questions

[Mateusz Konieczny via talk]

Dec 2, 2020, 22:50 by m...@teczno.com:

> The ODbL does not require that “every” person see the attribution. It 
> requires that “any” person can.
>
Untrue.

"notice associated withthe Produced Work reasonably calculated to make any 
Person that 
uses,views, accesses, interacts with, or is otherwise exposed to the 
ProducedWork aware
that Content was obtained from"

It is not , it is
.

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer. But reading of this seems quite clear to me.


>  FB’s attribution to OSM is available to any viewer in a place that is 
> commonly associated with attribution.
>
Barely visible icon that must be clicked is not a standard place for 
attribution.
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Re: [OSM-talk] time to review

[john whelan]

I would suggest that if someone could identify a list of mapping tasks
suitable for beginners that might help this sort of thing happening again.

I'd done a fair amount of validation of HOT tasks in the past which I'm
sure are similar and I'm more than aware of the amount of effort needed to
validate after new untrained enthusiastic mappers have been mapping.
Especially when they map only a couple of times.

I'm also aware that it does take a lot of knowledge and resources to clean
up afterwards.

Do we need a half page introduction to OSM?  Something along the lines of
if you are organising some sort of mapathon these are things you need to
consider and theses are the sort of things that have caused problems in the
past.  I get the feeling the enthusiastic organisers are going to do it
anyway but it help help a bit.

It doesn't help the present situation but it might help prevent more
problems in the future.

Cheerio John


On Wed, Dec 2, 2020, 16:29 Mario Frasca  wrote:

> Hi Rory,
>
> let's include the list, so you're talking with the whole community, not
> just to me.
>
> BACKGROUND: we're trying to have the YouthMappers Chapter of the
> University of Panama consider they're mapping within OSM, that there's a
> local community of mappers already mapping, and with some experience in
> different fields.
>
> unfortunately, the YMUP Chapter refuses to reply to comments to their
> changesets, or to consider complaints about their low quality of edits, and
> the sheer mass of beginners they throw into not-too-simple tasks.  recently
> they had their yearly "Gis Day", please don't ask me what it is, because I
> don't know, only that there's a hashtag being used once a year by the
> YouthMappers UP Chapter.  also please don't ask me who's inside this
> chapter, because I don't know.
>
> when Mateusz wrote to i...@youthmappers.org about their organized editing
> activity without declaration of intents, the result of his writing was that
> HOT opened two projects on top of two areas we from the community were
> editing using the tasking manager from tareas.openstreetmap.co, forcing
> us to clean up the edits while they were coming in.  that's Santiago and
> Colón.
>
> in Santiago we reverted several changesets, and made the effort to close
> their project so they would stay away from the work which was anyway almost
> complete.
>
> in Colón we stopped editing downtown, leaving it to the YMUP Chapter.
>
> there's still no published plan from the chapter, Rory says that they are
> reviewing the tasks they had opened, but apart from beginner mapper
> agreenish , arguably adding
> to the mass of mistakes, I don't see much editing activity in either
> project.
> I will write a diary entry, with images, and will try to make it a
> structured presentation of what goes on here.  there's statistical data
> I've collected that shows just how organized the edits from YMUP, and I
> find it quite insulting, the mismatch between the words by YouthMappers
> International, the call for patience by HOT, and the continued
> self-boasting by this local Chapter, while we need to do the cleaning up.
>
> you know … I am editing Morocco, that's more relaxing.  hopefully no
> YouthMappers there.
>
> ciao,
>
> Mario
>
>
> On 02/12/2020 15:52, Rory Nealon wrote:
>
> Hi Mario,
>
> Sorry for not getting back to you sooner.  I will try and contact the
> chapter and get an answer for you.  The last I heard was that they had
> begun to validate the tasks they had created.
>
> Cheers,
>
>
> Rory
>
> On Sun, Nov 29, 2020 at 4:53 PM Mario Frasca  wrote:
>
>> Dear Rory,
>>
>> let me insist, I wish to have an estimate of how long we should wait,
>> for the YMUP to review their edits?
>>
>> as you have read from his complaint to YMI, Markusz assumes something
>> like "at the end of the day", even if he wrote the complaint 4 days
>> after the edit — which he fixed himself.
>>
>> maybe too strict myself, because I would say "the next day", which could
>> be "the next available day".
>>
>> in particular since this looks like episodic edits, not ongoing
>> activities.
>>
>> so, what is the time we should allow before concluding they abandoned
>> the location?
>>
>> a week?  (slow, but could fit in a low activity group)
>>
>> a month?  (very slow, one forgets what they were doing)
>>
>> a year?  (ah? next group, please?)
>>
>> best regards, Mario Frasca
>>
>>
>
> --
> *Rory Nealon (he/him)*
> *Senior GIS Analyst & YouthMappers Activity Manager*
> *US Agency for International Development*
> *Washington, DC*
> *+1 202.468.7890*
> *GeoCenter MyUSAID Site *
>
> *The Geographic Approach to Development
> *
>
>
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> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>

Re: [OSM-talk] I’m running for OSMF board and I’ve set up office hours for questions

[Michal Migurski]

Hi Robert, Martin, Alexandre, Jochen, Richard, Tom:

Thanks for your followups in this conversation! I am speaking here as an 
individual and not on behalf of Facebook, so I’m going to focus on the areas 
relevant to board candidacy.
 
First, the text of the ODbL is explicit about “reasonably calculated” 
awareness. FB believes its maps comply with this. The ODbL does not require 
that “every” person see the attribution. It requires that “any” person can. 
FB’s attribution to OSM is available to any viewer in a place that is commonly 
associated with attribution.

Successful attribution guidelines published by the OSMF will make it much 
easier to decide how to interpret the ODbL. As a board member with experience 
in cartography design & implementation and OSM-relevant companies my 
involvement will make it more likely that the eventual attribution guidelines 
work for everyone.

A few of you have pushed back on my “beyond the ODbL” framing in my prior 
reply. I don’t want to repeat myself too much, but the ODbL is very terse and 
leaves a lot of room for interpretation. Common practices for data attribution 
in map and non-map domains rely on click-through interactions like the ones FB 
uses. This is a completely reasonable way to make users aware of the source of 
map data to the extent that viewers know that maps are made of data, that it is 
often sourced externally, and that the words in the corner of a map are 
relevant to how that basemap was produced and not (for example) the location of 
a friend or venue overlaid on top of it. The community here on talk@ is 
understandably focused on basemap attribution, but in the context of the many 
hundreds of ways that FB uses maps in its products and the many sources of that 
data, there’s also important design and interaction considerations with 
dramatically more needs to keep in balance. The power of OSM has always been 
its openness to new kind of uses beyond simple display maps. My interest as a 
board member is in maintaining this open approach to uses that are bigger, 
weirder, more niche, or otherwise different than OSM might have previously 
imagined.

Second, Jochen examines further the issue of conflict of interest. All of us 
involved in OSM represent a variety of interests that we bring to the map. My 
candidacy for the board is explicitly driven by a desire to see commercial and 
organizational use of OSM better represented in the OSMF. In some specific 
cases there may be a conflict of interest where I’d recuse myself, but in 
general it’s much more likely that FB and other companies’ need for a 
high-quality, free, global map with a healthy org behind it is *strongly 
aligned* with OSMF’s interests. I’ve held this belief for many years and in 
many organizations. As a board member I would work with members representing 
other OSM constituencies to make sure all these overlapping needs and desires 
lead to an OSM that’s stronger together.

Thanks everyone for your words in the thread so far. The annual election 
process is important because it’s one of the only venues OSM has typically had 
to ask itself tough questions and make important decisions.

-mike.


michal migurski- contact info and pgp key:
sf/cahttp://mike.teczno.com/contact.html

> On Nov 30, 2020, at 11:00 AM, Michal Migurski  wrote:
> 
> Hi everyone,
> 
> I’m excited to be running for the OSMF board this year! In 2021, OSM’s 
> community has two opportunities to grow stronger together: we should make the 
> OSM organization support a wider diversity of participants and we must 
> succeed at starting to manage our technical operations professionally.
> 
> I’d like to make myself available for conversations with anyone who has 
> questions about my candidacy, manifesto, priorities, or really anything else. 
> I did this last year when I ran and ended up having a few really fun 
> conversations with community members. I’m blocking these four times over the 
> next two weeks prior to the close of voting and AGM on Dec 12; get in touch 
> via email if you’d like to chat by text, voice, or video!
> 
>   • Dec 1, 16:00 PST – 
> https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=OSMF+Campaign+Office+Hours=20201201T16=388=1
>  
> 
>   • Dec 3, 8:00 PST – 
> https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=OSMF+Campaign+Office+Hours=20201203T08=388=1
>  
> 
>   • Dec 4, 16:00 PST – 
> https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=OSMF+Campaign+Office+Hours=20201205T16=388=1
>  
> 
>   • Dec 9, 8:00 PST – 
> 

Re: [OSM-talk] time to review

[Mario Frasca]

I forgot to include links to the tasks:

in Colón I had created a project to assist a mapper from USA keep the 
rest of us informed about his progress, and as said YMUP requested a 
project on top of it.  I have marked as unavailable the area of their 
project.


https://tareas.openstreetmap.co/project/174 — 
https://tasks.hotosm.org/projects/9851/


in Santiago a local user was attempting a complete insertion of all 
buildings, I offered him a project in the tasking manger, but he was 
already proceeding with his own todo-list.  again YMUP requested a 
project on top of this already ongoing activity.  to prevent this from 
interfering with our project, we marked all tasks in their project as 
completed and validated.  we've not received any comment to our action.


https://tareas.openstreetmap.co/project/170 — 
https://tasks.hotosm.org/projects/9852/




in San Miguelito they had opened a project, and this one was the focus 
of their GisDay 2020


https://tasks.hotosm.org/projects/9844/

for the GisDay 2019, the chapter edited around the Guna Nega area.  I'm 
not sure what was achieved.


for the GisDay 2018, the chapter had HOT open project 4917, which was 
left stagnant until I insisted that it be closed.


this as far as I understood, but I'm not sure, because I have not yet 
had the pleasure to hear any details from the involved persons.


Mario Frasca


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Re: [OSM-talk] time to review

[Mario Frasca]

Hi Rory,

let's include the list, so you're talking with the whole community, not 
just to me.


BACKGROUND: we're trying to have the YouthMappers Chapter of the 
University of Panama consider they're mapping within OSM, that there's a 
local community of mappers already mapping, and with some experience in 
different fields.


unfortunately, the YMUP Chapter refuses to reply to comments to their 
changesets, or to consider complaints about their low quality of edits, 
and the sheer mass of beginners they throw into not-too-simple tasks.  
recently they had their yearly "Gis Day", please don't ask me what it 
is, because I don't know, only that there's a hashtag being used once a 
year by the YouthMappers UP Chapter.  also please don't ask me who's 
inside this chapter, because I don't know.


when Mateusz wrote to i...@youthmappers.org about their organized 
editing activity without declaration of intents, the result of his 
writing was that HOT opened two projects on top of two areas we from the 
community were editing using the tasking manager from 
tareas.openstreetmap.co, forcing us to clean up the edits while they 
were coming in.  that's Santiago and Colón.


in Santiago we reverted several changesets, and made the effort to close 
their project so they would stay away from the work which was anyway 
almost complete.


in Colón we stopped editing downtown, leaving it to the YMUP Chapter.

there's still no published plan from the chapter, Rory says that they 
are reviewing the tasks they had opened, but apart from beginner mapper 
agreenish , arguably 
adding to the mass of mistakes, I don't see much editing activity in 
either project.


I will write a diary entry, with images, and will try to make it a 
structured presentation of what goes on here.  there's statistical data 
I've collected that shows just how organized the edits from YMUP, and I 
find it quite insulting, the mismatch between the words by YouthMappers 
International, the call for patience by HOT, and the continued 
self-boasting by this local Chapter, while we need to do the cleaning up.


you know … I am editing Morocco, that's more relaxing.  hopefully no 
YouthMappers there.


ciao,

Mario


On 02/12/2020 15:52, Rory Nealon wrote:

Hi Mario,

Sorry for not getting back to you sooner.  I will try and contact the 
chapter and get an answer for you.  The last I heard was that they had 
begun to validate the tasks they had created.


Cheers,


Rory

On Sun, Nov 29, 2020 at 4:53 PM Mario Frasca > wrote:


Dear Rory,

let me insist, I wish to have an estimate of how long we should wait,
for the YMUP to review their edits?

as you have read from his complaint to YMI, Markusz assumes something
like "at the end of the day", even if he wrote the complaint 4 days
after the edit — which he fixed himself.

maybe too strict myself, because I would say "the next day", which
could
be "the next available day".

in particular since this looks like episodic edits, not ongoing
activities.

so, what is the time we should allow before concluding they abandoned
the location?

a week?  (slow, but could fit in a low activity group)

a month?  (very slow, one forgets what they were doing)

a year?  (ah? next group, please?)

best regards, Mario Frasca



--
*/Rory Nealon (he/him)/*
*/Senior GIS Analyst & YouthMappers Activity Manager/*
*/US Agency for International Development/*
*/Washington, DC/*
*/+1 202.468.7890/*
*/GeoCenter MyUSAID Site /*

/*The Geographic Approach to Development 
*/



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[Talk-pt] Tutoriais em vídeo

[Alexandre Moleiro]

Olá!

Deixo aqui links para 2 tutoriais em vídeo que fiz:

1.Tomar notas de Voz com o OSMAND e editar com o JOSM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35WRtD2Oi4E

2.Como usar o JOSM com queries Overpass
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3_utXmMgyU

Não sei se existe um local onde estejam agregados tutoriais em português do
mesmo género, se souberem podem colocar lá.

Saudações

-- 
Alexandre Moleiro
  alexandre.mole...@gmail.com
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Re: [talk-cz] Dokumentace k instalaci traceru

[Jan Macura]

On Wed, 2 Dec 2020 at 20:01, Miroslav Suchy  wrote:

> Aktualizoval jsem
>   https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Cs:JOSM/Plugins/Tracer
> a smazal z toho starý balast.
>

Díky moc, tohle chtělo!

H.
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[talk-cz] Dokumentace k instalaci traceru

[Miroslav Suchy]

Tak dneska na pivě jsme se dost bavili o Traceru a díky trpělivosti Mariana 
jsme si ho minimálně dva lidi nově rozchodili.
Aktualizoval jsem
  https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Cs:JOSM/Plugins/Tracer
a smazal z toho starý balast.
Takže pokud někdo chcete vyzkoušet Tracer, tak směle do toho. :)

Mirek

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Re: [talk-cz] Moderní komunikační kanál?

[gebylist via talk-cz]

Dne 02.12.2020 v 16:14 Jiri Vlasak napsal(a):

komunikace přes email *je standardní* (nikoli poměrně.) OSM (nejen cz) komunita
mailing listy používá s úspěchem po celém světě [1].


Já bych navíc dodal, že email má opravdu každý! Už jen proto, že 
registrace na kdejakých jiných komunikačních platformách email vyžaduje. 
Ergo, email je komunikačí nástroj s nejširším záběrem.



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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] osmose + BANO = dégommer du rouge en mode turbo !

[Marc_marc]

Le 02.12.20 à 18:23, Florian LAINEZ a écrit :
> faut-il nommer le footway qui traverse une place avec le nom de la place ?

s'il n'y a aucun autre objet qui représente la place,
c'est une amélioration de le faire ainsi non ?

Bien sur faire une surface pour la place est encore mieux



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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] osmose + BANO = dégommer du rouge en mode turbo !

[Jacques Lavignotte]

Le 02/12/2020 à 17:48, Christian Quest a écrit :


Est-ce vraiment un faux positif ?

Si il n'y a pas d'autre highway...


Un highway=service qui veut s'appeler « Place de la Vallée Beaujean »

Mais ça c'est aux humains de filtrer...

--
GnuPg : 156520BBC8F5B1E3 Because privacy matters.
« Quand est-ce qu'on mange ? » AD (c) (tm)

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] osmose + BANO = dégommer du rouge en mode turbo !

[Christian Quest]

C'est pas forcément souhaitable, mais quand il n'y a rien d'autre pour 
porter le nom de la place c'est ce que je fais (en tagguant un peu pour 
BANO, j'avoue).


Le 02/12/2020 à 18:23, Florian LAINEZ a écrit :
ok c'est un débat de modélisation du coup : faut-il nommer le footway 
qui traverse une place avec le nom de la place ?

Perso je ne le fais pas, mais j'admet que le débat mérite d'exister.

Le mer. 2 déc. 2020 à 17:48, Christian Quest > a écrit :


Le 02/12/2020 à 14:44, Florian LAINEZ a écrit :
> la majorité des faux positifs est sur les highway=footway
> exemple type : suggestion d'ajouter name="place de l'église" sur
une
> footway qui traverse la place principale.
> peut-être désactiver les footway ?
>
Est-ce vraiment un faux positif ?

Si il n'y a pas d'autre highway...



--
Christian Quest - OpenStreetMap France


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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] osmose + BANO = dégommer du rouge en mode turbo !

[Florian LAINEZ]

ok c'est un débat de modélisation du coup : faut-il nommer le footway qui
traverse une place avec le nom de la place ?
Perso je ne le fais pas, mais j'admet que le débat mérite d'exister.

Le mer. 2 déc. 2020 à 17:48, Christian Quest  a
écrit :

> Le 02/12/2020 à 14:44, Florian LAINEZ a écrit :
> > la majorité des faux positifs est sur les highway=footway
> > exemple type : suggestion d'ajouter name="place de l'église" sur une
> > footway qui traverse la place principale.
> > peut-être désactiver les footway ?
> >
> Est-ce vraiment un faux positif ?
>
> Si il n'y a pas d'autre highway...
>
> --
> Christian Quest - OpenStreetMap France
>
>
> ___
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> Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
>


-- 

*Florian Lainez*
@overflorian 
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] osmose + BANO = dégommer du rouge en mode turbo !

[Christian Quest]

Le 02/12/2020 à 14:44, Florian LAINEZ a écrit :

la majorité des faux positifs est sur les highway=footway
exemple type : suggestion d'ajouter name="place de l'église" sur une 
footway qui traverse la place principale.

peut-être désactiver les footway ?


Est-ce vraiment un faux positif ?

Si il n'y a pas d'autre highway...

--
Christian Quest - OpenStreetMap France


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Re: [talk-cz] Moderní komunikační kanál?

[Marián Kyral]

-- Původní e-mail --
Od: Jiri Vlasak 
Komu: R3gi , OpenStreetMap Czech Republic 
Datum: 2. 12. 2020 16:18:33
Předmět: Re: [talk-cz] Moderní komunikační kanál?
"Ahoj,

> Chápu, měnit zaběhnutné zvyklosti je obtížné. Koneckonců, u starých open
source projektů je to běžný neduh. Ano, komunikace přes e-mail je poměrně
standardní, ale už pouhým pohledem na přehlednost, strukturu, potažmo
vzhled, této jedné konverzace věřím uznáte, že není vhodná na všechno.
Ocitoval bych vás a reagoval bych třeba i konkrétněji, ale… není to moc
uživatelsky přívětivé.

komunikace přes email *je standardní* (nikoli poměrně.) OSM (nejen cz)
komunita
mailing listy používá s úspěchem po celém světě [1].

Když projdu archiv [2], kromě odpovědí Maryána mi přehlednost tak
katastrofická
nepřijde. (Příčina problémů s odpovědmi může být buď špatné citování či
špatné
vykreslení citací.) Zdroj dat pro archív je [3].
"



To se omlouvám, používám seznamácký email a ten bohužel není dokonalý.





Marián ;-)

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Re: [talk-cz] Moderní komunikační kanál?

[Jiri Vlasak]

Ahoj,

> Chápu, měnit zaběhnutné zvyklosti je obtížné. Koneckonců, u starých open 
> source projektů je to běžný neduh. Ano, komunikace přes e-mail je poměrně 
> standardní, ale už pouhým pohledem na přehlednost, strukturu, potažmo vzhled, 
> této jedné konverzace věřím uznáte, že není vhodná na všechno. Ocitoval bych 
> vás a reagoval bych třeba i konkrétněji, ale… není to moc uživatelsky 
> přívětivé.

komunikace přes email *je standardní* (nikoli poměrně.) OSM (nejen cz) komunita
mailing listy používá s úspěchem po celém světě [1].

Když projdu archiv [2], kromě odpovědí Maryána mi přehlednost tak katastrofická
nepřijde. (Příčina problémů s odpovědmi může být buď špatné citování či špatné
vykreslení citací.) Zdroj dat pro archív je [3].

Pro základy používání emailů (a mailing listů) doporučuji video *Netiketa v
e-mailové komunikaci (Ondřej Caletka)* [4].

> - Usnadnit komunikaci – zjednodušit a zpřístupnit info, kde i náhodný 
> kolemjdoucí najde pomoc.

Zajímal by mě konkrétní nástroj, který bude jednoduchostí, škálovatelností, či
podporou platforem konkurenceschopný mailing listu. (Náhodný kolemjdoucí třeba
nestojí o registraci.) Předpokládám dodržení principů Organised Editing
Guidelines pro komunikaci s komunitou [5]:

(Překlad) Všechna relevantní komunikace by měla používat kanály, které jsou:

- otevřené (není třeba ne-OpenStreetMap registrace),
- veřejné,
- archivované.

> - Usměrnit diskuzi – zabránit zbytečnému tříštění komunity snížením počtu 
> komunikačních platforem. Proč nemít jen jedno místo, kde bude možná 
> strukturovaná komunikace (např. kanály/témata/konverzace), rychlá komunikace 
> (chat) i možnost hlasové telekonference namísto X různým nástrojům a 
> platformám?

Nemám pocit, že synchronní komunikace je potřebná/preferovaná/chtěná. Jedno
místo je tento mailing list.

> - Používat moderní nástroje – Nástroj je cesta, ne cíl. Lpět na starých 
> nástrojích jen kvůli nostalgii nebo kvůli tomu, že „jsem si je postavil sám“ 
> nebo že „je to open source“ mi přijde zpátečnické a neflexibilní.

Lpět na starých nástrojích kvůli tomu, že jsou stabilní, ověřené, rozšířené,
skvěle použitelné a hodící se pro daný účel, nenáročné a jednoduché na použití,
je už v pořádku?

Navíc ani moderní nástroje nemůžou zaručit správnost jejich použití.

Pěkný den,
jiri

[1]: https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo
[2]: https://openstreetmap.cz/talkcz/c3222
[3]: https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-cz/2020-December/thread.html
[4]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMLvEDIVL2g
[5]: 
https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Organised_Editing_Guidelines#Communication_with_the_community

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] osmose + BANO = dégommer du rouge en mode turbo !

[Florian LAINEZ]

la majorité des faux positifs est sur les highway=footway
exemple type : suggestion d'ajouter name="place de l'église" sur une
footway qui traverse la place principale.
peut-être désactiver les footway ?

Le mer. 2 déc. 2020 à 10:00, Christian Quest  a
écrit :

> Oui, le matching est réglé pour limiter les faux positifs.
>
>
> Petit rappel: cette analyse existe depuis 2016, elle a juste été un peu
> oubliée et était cassée comme le rendu depuis le passage à BANOv2.
>
> La preuve ici:
> http://osmose.openstreetmap.fr/fr/errors/graph.png?item=7170=32
>
>
> Le 02/12/2020 à 08:12, Florian LAINEZ a écrit :
> > Très utile, merci Christian. le taux de faux positifs est étonnamment
> bas.
> >
> > Le mer. 2 déc. 2020 à 00:07, Jacques Lavignotte
> > mailto:jacq...@lavignotte.org>> a écrit :
> >
> >
> >
> > Le 01/12/2020 à 18:44, Christian Quest a écrit :
> >
> > > J'ai remis en route l'analyse osmose comparant BANO et les noms
> > de rues
> > > absents / incorrects.
> >
> > Ca se mange sans faim :)
> >
> > Excellent.
> >
> --
> Christian Quest - OpenStreetMap France
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Bande cyclable étroite

[Mathieu]

> proposer class:* est donc revenir en arrière

Je ne souhaite pas ressusciter cette clé :)

>un tel mot est trop générique et finit par avoir tout et n'importe quoi
pour le cycliste

On est d'accord. Si j'ai parlé de la notion de confort, il ne me viendrait
pas à l'idée de vouloir en faire un tag, pour les raisons que tu exposes
(fourre-tout + dérives intévitables)

>mon trajet habituel a une piste pas trop étroite mais inconfortable
en roulant seul (plaque d'évacuation d'eau pluviale)

Une grosse flaque / inondation qui empiète sur la piste quand il a plu ou
une grille permettant l'évacuation mais qui rend la circulation à vélo
galère / force à être bien attentif à la trajectoire / l'évitement ?

>pour le dépassement overtaking:pratical (inspiré de maxspeed:pratical).
valeur yes/no/limited

C'est bien çà !

yes : ça permet de dire qu'on peut dépasser large (et implicitement rouler
à 2 de front)

no : totalement impossible de dépasser (ex : sur 1 piste de 1m de large
avec des bordures physiques des 2 côtés, parfaitement impossible sans
tomber / faire tomber l'autre), ça résume bien les pistes trop étroites =
de largeur inconfortable en roulant seul, impraticables en vélo biporteur,
triporteur, avec remorque, en fauteuil roulant.

limited : pour toutes ces situations ou ça passe tout juste (en étant pas
courtois), certains le font mais savent au fond d'eux qu'ils ne devraient
pas et ceux qui se font dépasser dans ces conditions ressentent le petit
coup de stress qu'on connaît tous, éventuellement râlent un bon coup.sur
l'indélicat de service Je ne compte pas la minorité de têtes brûlées qui
dépasse salement quoiqu'il arrive et soutiendront mordicus que c'est ok de
le faire, je fais l'hypothèse en 1ere approximation qu'ils ne contribuent
pas à OSM (ou tellement peu que cela ne nuira pas à la qualité des
données).

Ça peut fonctionner au top. Je laisse de côté le  "bicycle:lanes=2
unsigned=bicycle:lanes", à mon humble avis on peut s'en passer aisément.

Cordialement,
__
rouelibre1


Le mer. 2 déc. 2020 à 13:13, Marc_marc  a écrit :

> Le 01.12.20 à 23:52, Mathieu a écrit :
> > Je viens de jeter un œil à class:bicycle
>
> pour donner le contexte, la clef class
> a été déprécié en 2006 en faveur de highway
> proposer class:* est donc revenir en arrière.
> pourquoi pas s'il y a des arguments, mais le principal
> argument contre que je constate après avoir passé
> des mois à retager les objets en question,
> c'est qu'un tel mot est trop générique et finit
> par avoir tout et n'importe quoi
> pour le cycliste, j'imagine qu'on va avoir à la fois la difficulté
> (inclinée ou pas), l'usage (tourisme ou locomotion), la qualité de
> l'infra (bonne ou pas), etc
> je pense que class :type et autres du genre sont à fuir
> à cause du problème "fourre-tout" inévitable en étant si vague (tout le
> monde ne lit pas le wiki avant d'utiliser un tag, il faut
>
> > Peu de cyclistes connaissent les dimensions exacte de leur guidon et la
> > largeur qu'il leur faut pour rouler confortablement seul, encore moins
> > la largeur qui leur permet de dépasser, rouler de front à 2.
>
> certains me dépassent parfois sur un bande qui n'a pas la largeur pour.
> on tag comment ? pour moi c'est dépassement impossible, pour celui qui
> l'a fait, c'est dépassement possible
>
> > si la piste est trop étroite pour être confortable en roulant seul
>
> mon trajet habituel a une piste pas trop étroite mais inconfortable
> en roulant seul (plaque d'évacuation d'eau pluviale)
> du coup c'est confortable ou pas ?
> j'ai par contre aucun soucis pour mettre un witdh avec l'image sat
>
> > "est-ce qu'on peut rouler à deux de front avec un vélo lambda ici " ?
>
> si tu veux vraiment, je pense à bicycle:lanes=2 unsigned=bicycle:lanes
>
> et pour le dépassement overtaking:pratical (inspiré de
> maxspeed:pratical). valeur yes/no/limited
>
> >>L'intérêt même d'un attribut c'est qu'il soit interprétable de la même
> > manière quelque soit le cartographe
>
> par définition de même subjectif, ce n'est jamais le cas.
> déjà qu'une partie des contributeurs voient des highway=cycleway
> en l'absence de tout panneau objectif
>
> Cordialement,
> Marc
>
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Bande cyclable étroite

[Marc_marc]

Le 01.12.20 à 23:52, Mathieu a écrit :
> Je viens de jeter un œil à class:bicycle

pour donner le contexte, la clef class
a été déprécié en 2006 en faveur de highway
proposer class:* est donc revenir en arrière.
pourquoi pas s'il y a des arguments, mais le principal
argument contre que je constate après avoir passé
des mois à retager les objets en question,
c'est qu'un tel mot est trop générique et finit
par avoir tout et n'importe quoi
pour le cycliste, j'imagine qu'on va avoir à la fois la difficulté
(inclinée ou pas), l'usage (tourisme ou locomotion), la qualité de
l'infra (bonne ou pas), etc
je pense que class :type et autres du genre sont à fuir
à cause du problème "fourre-tout" inévitable en étant si vague (tout le
monde ne lit pas le wiki avant d'utiliser un tag, il faut

> Peu de cyclistes connaissent les dimensions exacte de leur guidon et la
> largeur qu'il leur faut pour rouler confortablement seul, encore moins
> la largeur qui leur permet de dépasser, rouler de front à 2.

certains me dépassent parfois sur un bande qui n'a pas la largeur pour.
on tag comment ? pour moi c'est dépassement impossible, pour celui qui
l'a fait, c'est dépassement possible

> si la piste est trop étroite pour être confortable en roulant seul

mon trajet habituel a une piste pas trop étroite mais inconfortable
en roulant seul (plaque d'évacuation d'eau pluviale)
du coup c'est confortable ou pas ?
j'ai par contre aucun soucis pour mettre un witdh avec l'image sat

> "est-ce qu'on peut rouler à deux de front avec un vélo lambda ici " ?

si tu veux vraiment, je pense à bicycle:lanes=2 unsigned=bicycle:lanes

et pour le dépassement overtaking:pratical (inspiré de
maxspeed:pratical). valeur yes/no/limited

>>L'intérêt même d'un attribut c'est qu'il soit interprétable de la même
> manière quelque soit le cartographe

par définition de même subjectif, ce n'est jamais le cas.
déjà qu'une partie des contributeurs voient des highway=cycleway
en l'absence de tout panneau objectif

Cordialement,
Marc



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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Removal of 'unsuitable' content from an OSM-related site

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 2. Dec 2020, at 11:15, Nick Whitelegg  wrote:
> 
> I don't have any terms of service - as a non-profit/research project it's all 
> quite informal


consider setting up some simple terms, even short ones, where you deny all 
responsibility, liability and guarantee and reserve the right to do anything 
and without notice. 

Just in case.

Cheers 
Martin
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Re: [OSM-talk] I’m running for OSMF board and I’ve set up office hours for questions

[Alexandre Oliveira]

I would like to ask a question related to #1.

Let's make a thought exercise. OSM provides geographical data, right? By
definition, a map is a visualization of geographical and other types of
data. In this case, a tile server is nothing more than the visual
representation of the geographical data. Don't you agree that without the
data OSM provides there would be no map (of course you can use other
sources like Google or Bing), since there would be no data to be visualized
and represented?

So why is attribution not necessary? The most important part of the map is
its data, without it there is no map. So I can't understand why you're so
hostile towards proper attribution which is REQUIRED by the ODbL.

I would also like to ask, given the circumstances, would it be fair if I
use Mapillary images (now that the service is in the hands of Facebook) and
hide attribution credits under a button your average user won't ever see?
They might think that data comes from Street View by Google.


And finally, I'd like to remind everyone that the LeafletJS library, used
by many, comes with attribution enabled by default, if there is no
attribution it was removed intentionally and in bad faith.
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Re: [talk-cz] Zmeny v serverech na IPR Praha

[Pavel Zbytovský]

Ahoj,

díky za info - Tomáš mi zavolal, tak jsem to teď opravil.
Obě mapy mi nyní fungují na osmap.cz.

P.

On Wed, Dec 2, 2020 at 8:52 AM Tom Ka  wrote:

> Ahoj, diky za report, zkusim kopnout do zbyho, snad bude reagovat.
>
> Bye tom.k
>
> st 2. 12. 2020 v 0:14 odesílatel r00t via talk-cz
>  napsal:
> >
> > Zdravim,
> >
> > Po tydnu co mi prestala jit ortofoto mapa Prahy jsem se konecne dokopal
> k zjisteni proc tomu tak je:
> >
> > Na mapovem portalu je nasledujici upozorneni:
> >
> > > 30. listopadu dojde k ukončení provozu mapových služeb ze serveru
> https://mpp.praha.eu/arcgis/rest.
> > > Důvodem je migrace a přechod na novou GIS infrastrukturu MHMP. Od 15.
> listopadu je většina služeb
> > > dostupná z nového prostředí. Z důvodu rozložení zátěže na více
> mapových serverů, nemohou být
> > > zachovány původní adresy služeb. V následující aplikaci lze na základě
> původní adresy služby
> > > dohledat službu v novém prostředí.
> http://app.iprpraha.cz/apl/app/service_viewer/
> > > Metadata mapových služeb budou opraveny s mírným zpožděním nejpozději
> do začátku roku 2021.
> > > Pokud nenaleznete služby, které využíváte, kontaktujte nás na mailu
> ba...@ipr.praha.eu.
> >
> > Aktualizovane podminky a dalsi dokumenty jsou tu (nezda se ze by se neco
> zmenilo):
> > https://www.geoportalpraha.cz/cs/dokumenty/ke-stazeni
> >
> > Po chvili hledani jsem nasel novy ArcGIS server:
> > https://gs-pub.praha.eu/arcgis/rest/services
> >
> > Zmena URL je z puvodniho (posledni mimovegetacni snimkovani):
> >
> https://giswas1.mepnet.cz/arcgis/services/MAP/mimovegetacni_snimkovani_cache/ImageServer/WMSServer?.
> ..
> > na nove:
> >
> https://gs-pub.praha.eu/imgs/services/ort/mimovegetacni_letecke_snimkovani/ImageServer/WMSServer?.
> ..
> >
> > Pro posledni snimkovani potom:
> >
> https://gs-pub.praha.eu/imgs/services/ort/letecke_snimkovani/ImageServer/WMSServer?.
> ..
> >
> >
> > Chtelo by to taky aktualizovat mirror/cache server na zby.cz aby zase
> fungoval jak ma.
> >
> >
> > r00tcz
> >
> >
> > ___
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Regrouper les activités d'une ferme

[Marc_marc]

Le 01.12.20 à 15:50, emeric Prouteau a écrit :
> Il y a effectivement 3 activités différentes mais pratiquées par la même
> entité (La ferme des 4 vents). Ce qui conduit à mettre le même "name"
> sur tous les nœuds

ou pas :)
à mes yeux le magasin et la balade touristique ne porte pas le nom de la
ferme. mettre le même name partout serrait comme dire que Margerite doit
être rebatisée du nom de sa ferme :-)

je met pour ma part name=* sur la surface, et operator pour dire qui
organise la balade touristique (qui pourrait d'ailleurs être faite
par quelqu'un d'autre que la ferme)



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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Removal of 'unsuitable' content from an OSM-related site

[Nick Whitelegg]

Hello Frederik,

OK - thanks for that. That clears things up quite nicely I think.

I have too many "day job" obligations at the moment to set it up as a
business, but the thought has crossed my mind for the future.

Thanks,
Nick

On Wed, Dec 2, 2020 at 12:03 PM Frederik Ramm  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On 02.12.20 09:49, Nick Whitelegg wrote:
> > As I said I am paying for this out of my own money and do not want the
> > storage space to be used for purposes other than panos of walking trails.
>
> I think you have already done *much* more than can be expected of you. I
> would have removed the data long ago. Or, if you are in a business-y
> mood, offer to keep their images if they pay you some money - depending
> on what their use-case and expertise is, it might be cheaper for them to
> pay you than to run things themselves. If you're lucky, it pays for the
> whole server and then some.
>
> That of course then puts you in a situation where you will have some
> obligations, and you'd need to explain to them that they can't expect
> you to fix a bug on Christmas Eve. Which is likely going to be ok for
> them, since at the moment they rely on a service that could delete their
> images for good any time ;)
>
> Bye
> Frederik
>
> --
> Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
>
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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Removal of 'unsuitable' content from an OSM-related site

[Nick Whitelegg]

Hello Martn,

I believe I 'probably' don't have any obligation, but I am just being
cautious as we do appear to live in a very litigious world and I just want
to be safe. It's a case of whether there is some automatic 'implied rights'
for users when there are no terms of service.

I don't have any terms of service - as a non-profit/research project it's
all quite informal - just some comments that 'unsuitable' panoramas, or
panoramas containing faces and license plates which are not detected by the
screening software I use - may be removed. Recently (after this) I have
added a comment on road panoramas being liable to be removed if unlikely to
be of interest to walkers.

Thanks,
Nick

On Wed, Dec 2, 2020 at 11:44 AM Martin Koppenhoefer 
wrote:

> IANAL, but why do you believe you could have any obligation to host their
> content on your server?
>
> Do you have terms of service?
>
> Cheers
> Martin
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Re: [talk-au] Tagging Culverts on Roads

[Mateusz Konieczny via Talk-au]

Dec 2, 2020, 05:30 by 61sundow...@gmail.com:

> On 2/12/20 3:54 am, Mateusz Konieczny  via Talk-au wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>> Dec 1, 2020, 01:17 by >> 61sundow...@gmail.com>> :
>>
>>> On 1/12/20 12:18 am, Mateusz Konieczny via Talk-au  wrote:
>>>



 Nov 30, 2020, 13:10 by  61sundow...@gmail.com :

> On 27/11/20 11:15 am, Andrew Hughes wrote:
>
>> This subject has a long-running chequered past that  
>> hasn't reached a conclusion >> 
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Tag:tunnel%3Dculvert#.22Tagging_controversy.22_section
>>
>> From my understanding, the convention is to tag the  
>> water course (i.e. river/stream/creek) as  
>> tunnel=culvert. It's great as it models where water  
>> traverses man made structures and I can see it helping  
>> many scenarios. However, it doesn't help with road  
>> usage.
>>
>> We need to model/tag the culvert as part of the  road 
>> infrastructure.
>>
>
>
>
>
> Would a node that connects both road and water way be  
> sufficient? 
>
>
 That would break current tagging methods that do notmerge in 
 one node vertically separated
 objects like culvert pipe under road or river underbridge or 
 road under road on a viaduct.

>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> OSM uses objects of different levels such as stairs to  footways at 
>>> a singular shared node. 
>>>
>>>
>> In this case you can transition/move between this features.
>>
>>>
>>> Would you have the short length of road tagged with a culvert  
>>> indication separate from the waterway culvert indication?
>>>
>>>
>> No, I tag waterway=* + tunnel=culvert and do not tag anythingon a 
>> road.
>>
>> And if someone cares about culvert/road crossings they canprocess 
>> OSM data,
>> there is no need at all to tag it manually for over onemillion of 
>> culverts.
>>
>
>
>
>
> And the OP wants to tag weight and width limits for the road as  it 
> crosses a culvert...
>
>
maxweight maxwidth tags on road are well known solution for that

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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Removal of 'unsuitable' content from an OSM-related site

[Mateusz Konieczny via legal-talk]

Dec 2, 2020, 09:49 by nickw4...@gmail.com:

> I have contacted the company asking them if it was OK to delete their 
> panoramas (as the content is arguably 'inappropritate' for a walking-oriented 
> site) nd they replied to me, in a friendly and cooperative way, saying they 
> would setup their own 'local' OpenTrailView server by November 13th. I since 
> contacted them to confirm whether they had done this (twice) but have not 
> heard back.
>
> With this in mind, given it's my own server (well technically I rent the 
> space from a hosting provider, but you know what i mean) and given I've sent 
> several emails to them, will it be OK legally for me to remove their 
> panoramas?
>
Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer.

As far as I know, you can delete offtopic content from your service.

I routinely delete offtopic content from OSM Telegram channel[1].

Any place on internet allowing submissions must moderate content
or will turn into a garbage dump.

It may be also a good idea to have terms of service reminding that
you can delete anything for any reason whatsoever.

Bonus disclaimer: I can imagine cases where deletions would be 
legally problematic (running into laws about discrimination or
anti-monopoly laws) but I cannot imagine anything applying here.

[1] Typically bitcoin scams spam, but sometimes something
more boderline.

> As I said I am paying for this out of my own money and do not want the 
> storage space to be used for purposes other than panos of walking trails.
>
Delete if you want. Note that giving warning was not necessary,
as far as I know deletion without warning is completely fine.
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Re: [OSM-talk] I’m running for OSMF board and I’ve set up office hours for questions

[Tom Hughes via talk]

On 02/12/2020 09:27, Richard Fairhurst wrote:

Michal Migurski wrote:
 > FB’s attribution approach in keeping with best practices

seen from other commercial users of display maps.


In the spirit of Twitter footnoting one of Donald Trump's "I won the 
election" tweets, this is your respectful reminder that Google, Bing, 
Here, Tencent, ViaMichelin, TomTom, Mapquest, Esri, and Qwant all have 
on-map attribution.


The really curious thing is that of all of those, it is only Facebook
that manages to annoy our volunteers by causing them to receive what
are essentially support requests that should be going to Faceboook.

Something about the way Facebook attributes causes their users to
think that we are responsible for whatever problems they are having...

Tom

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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Removal of 'unsuitable' content from an OSM-related site

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

On 02.12.20 09:49, Nick Whitelegg wrote:
> As I said I am paying for this out of my own money and do not want the
> storage space to be used for purposes other than panos of walking trails.

I think you have already done *much* more than can be expected of you. I
would have removed the data long ago. Or, if you are in a business-y
mood, offer to keep their images if they pay you some money - depending
on what their use-case and expertise is, it might be cheaper for them to
pay you than to run things themselves. If you're lucky, it pays for the
whole server and then some.

That of course then puts you in a situation where you will have some
obligations, and you'd need to explain to them that they can't expect
you to fix a bug on Christmas Eve. Which is likely going to be ok for
them, since at the moment they rely on a service that could delete their
images for good any time ;)

Bye
Frederik

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Re: [OSM-talk] I’m running for OSMF board and I’ve set up office hours for questions

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

Am Mi., 2. Dez. 2020 um 09:51 Uhr schrieb Robert Whittaker (OSM lists) <
robert.whittaker+...@gmail.com>:

> On Wed, 2 Dec 2020 at 03:41, Michal Migurski  wrote:
>
> > Facebook is in compliance with the ODbL license which requires that
> attribution be “reasonably calculated to make any Person that uses, views,
> accesses, interacts with, or is otherwise exposed to the Produced Work
> aware” of OSM’s contribution to a map.
>
> Are you seriously claiming that *every* person who views one of the
> maps on Facebook, will either already know that it uses OpenStreetMap
> data, or will click on the faint "(i)" logo to find that out?
>



yes, this short exchange already demonstrates that there is an evident
conflict of interest huge like a skyscraper, implicit in being employed by
facebook and serving on the OSM board. By not acknowledging the obvious
insufficiency of attribution but rather trying to defend it, Michal has
provided the necessary information to evaluate where he stands. Thank you,
no more questions.

Cheers
Martin
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Re: [OSM-talk] I’m running for OSMF board and I’ve set up office hours for questions

[Jochen Topf]

On Tue, Dec 01, 2020 at 07:36:24PM -0800, Michal Migurski wrote:
> Facebook is in compliance with the ODbL license which requires that 
> attribution be “reasonably calculated to make any Person that uses, views, 
> accesses, interacts with, or is otherwise exposed to the Produced Work aware” 
> of OSM’s contribution to a map. FB’s attribution approach in keeping with 
> best practices seen from other commercial users of display maps.
> 
> Parts of the community have expressed a desire to see attribution that goes 
> beyond the ODbL. [...]

Very interesting way of framing the issue. First you assert that
Facebook is in compliance. Then you talk about "Parts of the community"
who want something "beyond the ODbL.". But that's a straw man [1]
argument. This argument is not about people wanting something beyond the
ODbL. This is about a difference in opinion how the license is to be
interpreted. Facebook simply reads the license in a different way than
other people.

This framing is especially interesting, because as board member you
would have to defend the ODbL and have a conflict of interest over any
issue where different interpretations of the ODbL between OSM/the
community vs. Facebook are involved. But you would not have a conflict
of interest over anything "beyond the ODbL". So by framing the issue
this way you argued yourself out of your conflict of interest problem in
this issue. Very clever!

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

Jochen
-- 
Jochen Topf  joc...@remote.org  https://www.jochentopf.com/  +49-351-31778688

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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Removal of 'unsuitable' content from an OSM-related site

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

IANAL, but why do you believe you could have any obligation to host their
content on your server?

Do you have terms of service?

Cheers
Martin
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Re: [OSM-talk] I’m running for OSMF board and I’ve set up office hours for questions

[Richard Fairhurst]

Michal Migurski wrote:
> FB’s attribution approach in keeping with best practices
> seen from other commercial users of display maps.

In the spirit of Twitter footnoting one of Donald Trump's "I won the election" 
tweets, this is your respectful reminder that Google, Bing, Here, Tencent, 
ViaMichelin, TomTom, Mapquest, Esri, and Qwant all have on-map attribution.

http://www.systemed.net/osm/attribution.png

Richard
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[Talk-it] Evento ASITA 2021: richiesta di invio contributi GFOSS

[Stefano Campus]

buongiorno a tutti,

inoltro la comunicazione di Paolo Dabove, presidente dell'Associazione
GFOSS.it, sulla richiesta di presentazione contributi per l'evento ASITA
2021.

vi chiediamo di valutare l'opportunità di presentare qualche vostro lavoro
attinente al tema software geografico libero e ai geo-opendata
(GFOSS/FOSS4G) poiché la nostra Associazione curerà uno o due Sessioni
dedicate e vorremmo così raccogliere i contributi di chi condivide con noi
i valori del software libero.

saluti

s.





-- Forwarded message -
Da: *Paolo Dabove* < paolo.dab...@polito.it>
Date: ven 27 nov 2020 alle ore 16:23



[...]

Con la presente vorrei incoraggiarvi nel *sottoporre dei contributi per la
Conferenza ASITA 2021*, che si terrà a Genova dal 15 al 18 giugno 2021 (
https://www.asita.it/conferenza-2021/).
La sottomissione è possibile al seguente link:
http://conferenza.asita.it/2021/SubmitAbstract.php

Nonostante tra i temi principali della conferenza non vi sia esplicitamente
citato l'acronimo GFOSS, l'intenzione congiunta di ASITA e
dell'Associazione GFOSS.it è quella di creare almeno un paio di sessioni
basate sulle tematiche proprie della associazione, in un'ottica di una
futura collaborazione istituzionale tra le due associazioni.
Tale intenzione è altresì dimostrata dagli sconti che ASITA riserva non
solo ai soci delle sue associazioni confederate ma anche ai soci della
nostra associazione, come potete vedere al seguente link:
https://www.asita.it/contributo-per-presentazione-articoli/

A tal proposito, vi ricordo che la Conferenza sarà gratuita per gli uditori
mentre sarà a pagamento essenzialmente per chi presenta un lavoro (come
avvenuto già in passato) oltre che per gli operatori commerciali che
vogliano ad esempio avere uno stand, secondo le modalità che potrete vedere
al link precedentemente citato.

*Vi invito quindi a sottoporre contributi, specificando nel testo e/o nelle
parole chiave l'acronimo GFOSS/FOSS4G*, al fine di poter poi agevolare la
creazione di sessioni tematiche.
.

Ringraziandovi per l'attenzione, colgo l'occasione per augurarvi un buon
fine settimana!

Paolo Dabove
Presidente Associazione GFOSS.it


*P.S.*) Vi ricordo che, come associazione, abbiamo iniziato ad erogare un
ciclo di seminari assieme all'associazione GEAM che durerà sino a fine
maggio 2021. Per ulteriori dettagli potete consultare la pagina
https://www.gfoss.it/index.php/novita/eventi/webinar-geam-gfoss
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] osmose + BANO = dégommer du rouge en mode turbo !

[Christian Quest]

Oui, le matching est réglé pour limiter les faux positifs.


Petit rappel: cette analyse existe depuis 2016, elle a juste été un peu 
oubliée et était cassée comme le rendu depuis le passage à BANOv2.


La preuve ici: 
http://osmose.openstreetmap.fr/fr/errors/graph.png?item=7170=32



Le 02/12/2020 à 08:12, Florian LAINEZ a écrit :

Très utile, merci Christian. le taux de faux positifs est étonnamment bas.

Le mer. 2 déc. 2020 à 00:07, Jacques Lavignotte 
mailto:jacq...@lavignotte.org>> a écrit :




Le 01/12/2020 à 18:44, Christian Quest a écrit :

> J'ai remis en route l'analyse osmose comparant BANO et les noms
de rues
> absents / incorrects.

Ca se mange sans faim :)

Excellent.


--
Christian Quest - OpenStreetMap France


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[OSM-legal-talk] Removal of 'unsuitable' content from an OSM-related site

[Nick Whitelegg]

Hello everyone,

Apologies - this is not directly related to OpenStreetMap itself but is
related to a site of mine which uses OpenStreetMap data so I thought I'd
post my question here to get opinions.

I have been developing a site OpenTrailView (https://opentrailview.org) to
collect 360 panoramas of walking and hiking routes. OSM data is used to
connect the panoramas together.

The site has always advertised itself as a site to collect panos of
*walking* routes - however a company has used the site to upload a large
number of panoramas of on-road routes. My problem with this is that it's
using up server space on a server that I pay for out of my own money.

I have contacted the company asking them if it was OK to delete their
panoramas (as the content is arguably 'inappropritate' for a
walking-oriented site) nd they replied to me, in a friendly and cooperative
way, saying they would setup their own 'local' OpenTrailView server by
November 13th. I since contacted them to confirm whether they had done this
(twice) but have not heard back.

With this in mind, given it's my own server (well technically I rent the
space from a hosting provider, but you know what i mean) and given I've
sent several emails to them, will it be OK legally for me to remove their
panoramas?

Likely legislation would be Germany as that is where the server is based,
or possibly UK because that is where I am based most of the time,

As I said I am paying for this out of my own money and do not want the
storage space to be used for purposes other than panos of walking trails.

Thanks,
Nick
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Re: [OSM-talk] I’m running for OSMF board and I’ve set up office hours for questions

[Robert Whittaker (OSM lists)]

On Wed, 2 Dec 2020 at 03:41, Michal Migurski  wrote:

> Facebook is in compliance with the ODbL license which requires that 
> attribution be “reasonably calculated to make any Person that uses, views, 
> accesses, interacts with, or is otherwise exposed to the Produced Work aware” 
> of OSM’s contribution to a map.

Are you seriously claiming that *every* person who views one of the
maps on Facebook, will either already know that it uses OpenStreetMap
data, or will click on the faint "(i)" logo to find that out? Because
that is what the ODbL requires. This isn't just about a mechanism for
people who are already motivated to find out where the map data comes
from, your attribution needs to be reasonably calculated to ensure
that *everyone* viewing one of your maps (whether they're interested
or not) is aware that the map data has come from OpenStreetMap. I
don't see how you can claim that your current attribution does that.

Robert.

-- 
Robert Whittaker

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Re: [talk-cz] Moderní komunikační kanál?

[<0174]

Ahoj,
abych taky přidal pár kapek do mlýna - dvě věci, co tu ještě myslím nepadly:
- Větvení tématu. Osobně používám Thunderbird a na druhém PC Gmail na webu.
Thunderbird větvení řeší, umí (s občasnými chybami) větvit odpovědi podle
toho, kdo na co odpověděl do stromové struktury. Většina lidí ale myslím
používá webový mail s klasickým lineárním řazením, kde je ve větším tématu
dost složité se zorientovat, kdo reaguje na koho. To je problém i většiny
webových fór (někdo cituje někoho dvě strany zpátky, ten mu odpoví další
dvě strany dopředu a nedá se to číst...) Dobře to má podle mě řešený např.
Reddit, do menší míry i Facebook. Discord nepoužívám, možná to zvládá taky?
- Lajkování. Typický příklad - někdo se na něco zeptá, dva lidi dají
odlišné odpovědi. Co dál? Může tu padesát lidí posílat odpovědi s +1 a -1 a
zahltit konferenci (hm, možná na to má Thunderbird plugin?), nebo se
vypisovat s důvody (což může mít často smysl), často ale není na první chuť
a na druhé čas, nebo nálada. Jednoduché kliknutí na "lajk" jako na FB, nebo
(lépe) šipku nahoru či dolů s automatickým skrýváním příspěvků s mnoha
negativními hlasy jako na Redditu mi přijde jako praktická věc i úspora
času.

Ale zůstaneme předpokládám příštích pár let u e-mailu, protože:
- Je tu už příliš mnoho lidí, aby se změna udělala jednoduše domluvou
- Umí naprostou většinu věcí, co od konference čekáme.
- Obtížnost změny nevyvažuje benefity lepšího fóra.

Na druhou stranu nikdo nikomu nebrání založit na Discordu novou skupinu
(nebo jak se to tam jmenuje), případně na libovolné opensource síti -
případně to můžeme dotlačit ještě dál a použít třeba Steemit, ať máme
příspěvky napořád na blockchainu. Třeba se to ujme.

<0174

út 1. 12. 2020 v 14:24 odesílatel R3gi via talk-cz <
talk-cz@openstreetmap.org> napsal:

> Ahoj všem,
> hledám českou OSM komunitu. Konkrétně, moderní komunikační kanál, kde bych
> mohl konzultovat mapování konkrétních míst, správné použití konkrétních
> tagů, potažmo editorů.
>
> Nic proti zachování tradic. E-mail, IRC, poštovní holubi, kouřové signály
> atp. jsou fajn. Zejména pro skalní fandy a pamětníky. Jen podle mě tvoří
> moc velkou bariéru, zejména pro komunikaci se začínajícími mapery.
>
> Mezinárodní komunita už adoptovala moderní technologie typu Discord (
> https://discord.gg/SRZUYUz). Existuje nějaké takové místo i pro českou
> komunitu? Něco z tohoto století? 
>
> Budu rád za navedení. Přijde mi hloupé tříštit síly a pokoutně zakládat
> vlastní komunity.
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> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-cz
> https://openstreetmap.cz/talkcz
>
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[Talk-it] Richiesta informazioni su OpenStreetMap e COVID19 in Italia

[Alessandro Sarretta]

Buongiorno a tutte e tutti,

insieme a Maurizio Napolitano e Marco Minghini stiamo cercando di 
raccogliere informazioni su come in Italia le informazioni geografiche, 
e in particolare mappe e dati OpenStreetMap, sono state usate a supporto 
del contrasto dell'emergenza COVID-19, con l'obiettivo di produrre una 
pubblicazione scientifica sull'esperienza italiana.


Abbiamo discusso in lista a partire da marzo del dataset delle farmacie, 
della mappatura e del tagging per consegne a domicilio e orari di 
apertura, la creazione di mappe locali su uMap, dell'import di dati sui 
civici in alcune città e lo sviluppo di strumenti agili per la loro 
mappatura.


Ci piacerebbe riuscire a dare un quadro il più possibile completo sia 
delle attività proposte e attuate dalla comunità OSM, sia delle 
iniziative, anche locali, in cui c’è stato un flusso di dati da enti 
pubblici e privati verso OSM (ad esempio un import, una liberazione di 
un dataset ufficiale, ecc), ma anche il viceversa (es. Comuni che hanno 
pubblicato le mappe delle consegne a domicilio da OSM, o la Croce Rossa 
che magari ha usato gli indirizzi, ...).


Parliamo di dataset geografici e non dei dataset sui numeri dei contagi 
e di ricoveri/ospedalizzazioni ecc.


Ringraziamo da subito chiunque abbia piacere di condividere qui 
informazioni su questi aspetti, possibilmente con riferimenti e link a 
dataset, mappe, discussioni, pagine web, ecc.


Grazie,

Ale, Marco, Maurizio


--

Alessandro Sarretta

skype/twitter: alesarrett
Web: ilsarrett.wordpress.com 

Research information:

 * Google scholar profile
   
 * ORCID 
 * Research Gate 
 * Impactstory 

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